Mexican pride was restored like you predicted (opposite to your view), only because Marga-Cheat-Oh got a beat down and true fans (Mexican or not) finally got to see the REAL Tornado, or let's say a wind gust. Don't blame his age or previous fights, as apparently he is about 5% the man without wraps!
Ortiz quit before the real beating began. It was apparent to him after round two he was in for a long night of pain (and then after). Manny don't quit, he took a serious beating in the second Marquez fight, and was picked apart by Morales in their initial fight. Floyd won't land anywhere near that amount of shots and not with the same authority either. He waits and times every fighter so that they peak publicly but they show an apparent weak spot that is exploitable and low risk to him. - Ortiz beat and overrated Berto, but he quit against Maidana, so that fight was a joke. - Mosley had one tough fight against Cotto. Then after he had a perfect style match-up for Margacheato and also stopped Antonio from using plaster and it was also psychologically damaging when Antonio had to re-wrap, and apparently wasn't prepared. - He made a 130lbs natural fighter move up to a catch-weight for his return from retirement. Marquez did all he could in the short time to make it to 142. Mayweather (as he did against Mosley) refused to give his weight on fight night. It was apparent he was much bigger. The information was released from Mayweather camp that he was 161lbs. He had to pay $600k to Marquez for coming to the weigh-in at two lbs over. I think that is proof enough of his game plan. - He took down Hatton before Manny moved up in weight and did it. (Manny had KO of the year in 2009) - Remember how HBO 24/7 (the only way they can sell BS mis-matched fights) started... with Floyd vs Oscar, which turned out to be more competitive than I (or Mayweather) thought. Yes Floyd won, but it was far from impressive.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. had great speed, reflexes, natural instincts, power, and basically all the physical attributes you could want. He also is very poised, and a defensive master and a great ring technician. His main weakness is his adjustment against taller fighters with reach advantages, as he never fought (and concerns): - Vernon Forrest (RIP: Tall, reach and Fast) - Antonion Margarito (Tall, reach, stamina, work-rate) - Paul Williams ((Tall, reach, stamina, work-rate) - Sergio Mora (Tall, and to much uncertainty) others... - Winky Wright (Great technician, defensive master, bigger but fought 154lbs and Floyd wants every advantage) - Miguel Cotto (when undefeated Mayweather should have fought him as it would have been easy and made Floyd look very impressive) - Sergio Martinez (Fast, strong, bigger and great stamina) - Joshua Clottey (Physical & mental toughness; Floyd knew he would break his brittle hands hitting that beast) Amir Khan (Fast and still uncertain if how good he will be) Andre Berto (Fast hands and combinations, would make Floyd pop-shot him and look less than impressive)
I have posted this many times, and will continue as Floyd continues to fight opponents that lost before it started. He has all-time greatness ability, but he overplays his confidence as it is lacking because he would have fought top rated fighters during their prime. Manny has fought some of the same fighters, but Manny brings it and isn't afraid to take any risks, but Floyd is afraid to take any risk. In a decade Floyd had a competitive bout with Oscar and a decision over Castillo (which the majority felt he lost clear as day). I usually don't get stat heavy when it comes to fights, but when you land nearly three times the amount of power punches over your opponent at almost 50% connect rate, and total average of 200 over 150 at a higher connect total, it become hard to justify such a unanimous win with scorecards (2) 115-111 (1) 116-111!!!
Mexican pride was restored like you predicted (opposite to your view), only because Marga-Cheat-Oh got a beat down and true fans (Mexican or not) finally got to see the REAL Tornado, or let's say a wind gust. Don't blame his age or previous fights, as apparently he is about 5% the man without wraps!
Ortiz quit before the real beating began. It was apparent to him after round two he was in for a long night of pain (and then after). Manny don't quit, he took a serious beating in the second Marquez fight, and was picked apart by Morales in their initial fight. Floyd won't land anywhere near that amount of shots and not with the same authority either. He waits and times every fighter so that they peak publicly but they show an apparent weak spot that is exploitable and low risk to him. - Ortiz beat and overrated Berto, but he quit against Maidana, so that fight was a joke. - Mosley had one tough fight against Cotto. Then after he had a perfect style match-up for Margacheato and also stopped Antonio from using plaster and it was also psychologically damaging when Antonio had to re-wrap, and apparently wasn't prepared. - He made a 130lbs natural fighter move up to a catch-weight for his return from retirement. Marquez did all he could in the short time to make it to 142. Mayweather (as he did against Mosley) refused to give his weight on fight night. It was apparent he was much bigger. The information was released from Mayweather camp that he was 161lbs. He had to pay $600k to Marquez for coming to the weigh-in at two lbs over. I think that is proof enough of his game plan. - He took down Hatton before Manny moved up in weight and did it. (Manny had KO of the year in 2009) - Remember how HBO 24/7 (the only way they can sell BS mis-matched fights) started... with Floyd vs Oscar, which turned out to be more competitive than I (or Mayweather) thought. Yes Floyd won, but it was far from impressive.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. had great speed, reflexes, natural instincts, power, and basically all the physical attributes you could want. He also is very poised, and a defensive master and a great ring technician. His main weakness is his adjustment against taller fighters with reach advantages, as he never fought (and concerns): - Vernon Forrest (RIP: Tall, reach and Fast) - Antonion Margarito (Tall, reach, stamina, work-rate) - Paul Williams ((Tall, reach, stamina, work-rate) - Sergio Mora (Tall, and to much uncertainty) others... - Winky Wright (Great technician, defensive master, bigger but fought 154lbs and Floyd wants every advantage) - Miguel Cotto (when undefeated Mayweather should have fought him as it would have been easy and made Floyd look very impressive) - Sergio Martinez (Fast, strong, bigger and great stamina) - Joshua Clottey (Physical & mental toughness; Floyd knew he would break his brittle hands hitting that beast) Amir Khan (Fast and still uncertain if how good he will be) Andre Berto (Fast hands and combinations, would make Floyd pop-shot him and look less than impressive)
I have posted this many times, and will continue as Floyd continues to fight opponents that lost before it started. He has all-time greatness ability, but he overplays his confidence as it is lacking because he would have fought top rated fighters during their prime. Manny has fought some of the same fighters, but Manny brings it and isn't afraid to take any risks, but Floyd is afraid to take any risk. In a decade Floyd had a competitive bout with Oscar and a decision over Castillo (which the majority felt he lost clear as day). I usually don't get stat heavy when it comes to fights, but when you land nearly three times the amount of power punches over your opponent at almost 50% connect rate, and total average of 200 over 150 at a higher connect total, it become hard to justify such a unanimous win with scorecards (2) 115-111 (1) 116-111!!!
Imagine these fights never taking place: ... Ali vs Frazier (I,II & III) ** ... Pryor vs Arguello (I & II) (RIP) ... Leonard vs Hearns (I & II) ... Leonard vs Duran (I & II) ... Zale vs Graziano (I,II & III; all in 21 months) ... Sanchez vs Nelson ... Sanchez vs Lopez (I & II) ... Vasquez vs Marquez (I,II, III & IV) ... Pacquiao vs Marquez (I,II, III)
These are just a small sample of my favorites, and also classics listed as greatest fights of all time. Mayweather could have built a legacy and some of the greatest fights as well as most impressive fights against real #1 opponents, instead he opted for an unsubstantiated undefeated record and his alias ... "Money!" It's sad to call him a great fighter yet alone an all-time great mention, but he chose his path as a businessman first and boxer second. Maybe if he had several true people in his corner instead of "Yes" men, and puppets he might have proved to be among the elite. It reminds me of NFL wide receivers that had all the talent and support but chose not to be a play maker when they heard footsteps.
** (as many know, when Ali was young and during his prime his speed as a
heavyweight was simply freakish and made him nearly unbeatable; after
1967 and his forced layoff, he wasn't even close to the fighter he was;
almost like Tyson's story)
Imagine these fights never taking place: ... Ali vs Frazier (I,II & III) ** ... Pryor vs Arguello (I & II) (RIP) ... Leonard vs Hearns (I & II) ... Leonard vs Duran (I & II) ... Zale vs Graziano (I,II & III; all in 21 months) ... Sanchez vs Nelson ... Sanchez vs Lopez (I & II) ... Vasquez vs Marquez (I,II, III & IV) ... Pacquiao vs Marquez (I,II, III)
These are just a small sample of my favorites, and also classics listed as greatest fights of all time. Mayweather could have built a legacy and some of the greatest fights as well as most impressive fights against real #1 opponents, instead he opted for an unsubstantiated undefeated record and his alias ... "Money!" It's sad to call him a great fighter yet alone an all-time great mention, but he chose his path as a businessman first and boxer second. Maybe if he had several true people in his corner instead of "Yes" men, and puppets he might have proved to be among the elite. It reminds me of NFL wide receivers that had all the talent and support but chose not to be a play maker when they heard footsteps.
** (as many know, when Ali was young and during his prime his speed as a
heavyweight was simply freakish and made him nearly unbeatable; after
1967 and his forced layoff, he wasn't even close to the fighter he was;
almost like Tyson's story)
Zouk, I used to like Floyd until I heard him say he was greater than Ali or Robinson, that was/is over the line, even when Tyson was asked about Ali in the 80's, he said "Ali would beat him" out of respect, Ali was ask about Marciano in the 70's, Ali said "Marciano would beat him". Now you know damn well both Ali and Tyson both thought no one could beat them, but they were being humble and respectful at the same time, where as if they did say what Floyd said I wouldn't have as much of a problem as Floyd saying it, because Floyd has dodged many fighters (he has been his own promoter for years). He is way too full of himself, he said he was the greatest ever, he's not even the greatest in any weight class, let alone ever and when/if he ever loses he will never be the same (like Tyson) either way he will not be remember more than Ali or Tyson.
Zouk, I used to like Floyd until I heard him say he was greater than Ali or Robinson, that was/is over the line, even when Tyson was asked about Ali in the 80's, he said "Ali would beat him" out of respect, Ali was ask about Marciano in the 70's, Ali said "Marciano would beat him". Now you know damn well both Ali and Tyson both thought no one could beat them, but they were being humble and respectful at the same time, where as if they did say what Floyd said I wouldn't have as much of a problem as Floyd saying it, because Floyd has dodged many fighters (he has been his own promoter for years). He is way too full of himself, he said he was the greatest ever, he's not even the greatest in any weight class, let alone ever and when/if he ever loses he will never be the same (like Tyson) either way he will not be remember more than Ali or Tyson.
Floyd's general need to hype up everything is more than just promotional to get more money. The most insecure people are either the quietest or the loudest and obnoxious. Clearly, if he felt so confident as he speaks, he would have fought more often, and better opponents during their prime, not when they are nearing 40 years old, or when they are still green and need more experience before fighting a master technician. Yes it is important to protect yourself by picking the right opponent at the right time. I understand the politics are difficult as well as the promotion. Floyd and Manny are about the only two active fighters that can call their own shots, so there isn't any reason either of them should have difficulty making a fight against anyone they preferred. Manny has been waiting for Floyd, but not necessarily in great need as he fought several of the same fighters as Floyd, but Manny went into each bout with full steam. Only against Oscar did Manny show caution for about four rounds then picked him apart. Floyd took on Hatton before Manny moved up in weight, but Manny still fought Hatton and won and was awarded with the 2009 knockout of the year. Manny in all three fights against Marquez he tried his hardest to take Marquez out, but had great difficulty against his adversary. Floyd knocked Marquez down early, but then decided to fight defensively and use counter punches and leads, but never tried for a knockout. Floyd was two lbs over the catch-weight (had to pay $600k to Marquez) while Marquez struggled to make 142lbs. Floyd also didn't allow his weight to be stated the night of the fight (same thing against Mosley). When they entered the ring it was easy to tell that Marquez had fought under 130lbs for most of his career, and Mayweather looked very big compared to Marquez. Weeks after some word came out that Floyd weighed around 162lbs (20lbs heavier than Marquez). It's clear that even though Mayweather was so called "retired", it wasn't even two years of a layoff. At a prime age of thirty-two, Floyd remains always in shape. This fight he didn't want people to know he was 20lbs bigger because he would get constant questions why he couldn't knockout a much smaller fighter moving up in weight at age thirty-six and his body had been in some severe wars (the type of fights that speeds up aging; Chavez was considered old at age thirty-one when he fought Whitaker with a record 87-0; Chavez was still regarded as the dominant fighter in the division). It shows that he felt he needed extra weight so he could shut down any offensive charge by Marquez. Photo: Mayweather vs Marquez (look at the size differential)
Floyd's general need to hype up everything is more than just promotional to get more money. The most insecure people are either the quietest or the loudest and obnoxious. Clearly, if he felt so confident as he speaks, he would have fought more often, and better opponents during their prime, not when they are nearing 40 years old, or when they are still green and need more experience before fighting a master technician. Yes it is important to protect yourself by picking the right opponent at the right time. I understand the politics are difficult as well as the promotion. Floyd and Manny are about the only two active fighters that can call their own shots, so there isn't any reason either of them should have difficulty making a fight against anyone they preferred. Manny has been waiting for Floyd, but not necessarily in great need as he fought several of the same fighters as Floyd, but Manny went into each bout with full steam. Only against Oscar did Manny show caution for about four rounds then picked him apart. Floyd took on Hatton before Manny moved up in weight, but Manny still fought Hatton and won and was awarded with the 2009 knockout of the year. Manny in all three fights against Marquez he tried his hardest to take Marquez out, but had great difficulty against his adversary. Floyd knocked Marquez down early, but then decided to fight defensively and use counter punches and leads, but never tried for a knockout. Floyd was two lbs over the catch-weight (had to pay $600k to Marquez) while Marquez struggled to make 142lbs. Floyd also didn't allow his weight to be stated the night of the fight (same thing against Mosley). When they entered the ring it was easy to tell that Marquez had fought under 130lbs for most of his career, and Mayweather looked very big compared to Marquez. Weeks after some word came out that Floyd weighed around 162lbs (20lbs heavier than Marquez). It's clear that even though Mayweather was so called "retired", it wasn't even two years of a layoff. At a prime age of thirty-two, Floyd remains always in shape. This fight he didn't want people to know he was 20lbs bigger because he would get constant questions why he couldn't knockout a much smaller fighter moving up in weight at age thirty-six and his body had been in some severe wars (the type of fights that speeds up aging; Chavez was considered old at age thirty-one when he fought Whitaker with a record 87-0; Chavez was still regarded as the dominant fighter in the division). It shows that he felt he needed extra weight so he could shut down any offensive charge by Marquez. Photo: Mayweather vs Marquez (look at the size differential)
Looking at that photo there is a huge difference, the guy is 2 weight classes smaller, so Floyd should fight Martinez next with no problem, but he'll fight a smaller fighter instead.
Looking at that photo there is a huge difference, the guy is 2 weight classes smaller, so Floyd should fight Martinez next with no problem, but he'll fight a smaller fighter instead.
when floyd fought marquez, he was coming off a long layoff, it was a tune up fight, every fighter in that situation would do the same thing, only most would not fight an opponent of marquez's caliber. It does seem pretty obvious that floyd vs manny is a mismatch as I have been stating for years, the martinez fight, that is an interesting match up, if that one was to happen it would be at 154, and that would be an advantage to floyd, (with the older fighter having to move down in weight) I actually like floyd to out box martinez and win a dec. I have never been that high on martinez, people talk about his conditioning being so great, I would disagree totally, he is always gasping for air through an open mouth, fighters with great conditioning do not get winded like this(think salvador sanchez, johnny tapia, felix trinidad to name a few) to me floyd is great, martinez is not. and if this one does ever happen it won't be for at least a year and a half and martinez is at the age where that is very significant especially with the style that he has.
when floyd fought marquez, he was coming off a long layoff, it was a tune up fight, every fighter in that situation would do the same thing, only most would not fight an opponent of marquez's caliber. It does seem pretty obvious that floyd vs manny is a mismatch as I have been stating for years, the martinez fight, that is an interesting match up, if that one was to happen it would be at 154, and that would be an advantage to floyd, (with the older fighter having to move down in weight) I actually like floyd to out box martinez and win a dec. I have never been that high on martinez, people talk about his conditioning being so great, I would disagree totally, he is always gasping for air through an open mouth, fighters with great conditioning do not get winded like this(think salvador sanchez, johnny tapia, felix trinidad to name a few) to me floyd is great, martinez is not. and if this one does ever happen it won't be for at least a year and a half and martinez is at the age where that is very significant especially with the style that he has.
Straight from Roaches mouth. "Pacquiao will be forced to be great otheriwse he won't be there at the end."
Pacquiao will not be able tot ake the beating Ortiz took. Not a chance. Roach will be waving in the white towel.
I agree with you, I have stated in a previous thread that I see roach waving the white flag. I have already started saving money to bet on this mega fight mismatch
Quote Originally Posted by Jerseyboy89:
Straight from Roaches mouth. "Pacquiao will be forced to be great otheriwse he won't be there at the end."
Pacquiao will not be able tot ake the beating Ortiz took. Not a chance. Roach will be waving in the white towel.
I agree with you, I have stated in a previous thread that I see roach waving the white flag. I have already started saving money to bet on this mega fight mismatch
Martinez vs Mayweather I agree with you. Regarding Marquez, you are correct, but Floyd was in no danger at anytime and he was aware he would be better in every aspect. Martinez remember was groomed as a soccer player and cyclist, and didn't switch till his early 20s to boxing. This shows that he wasn't properly trained or already carried bad habits. Being a cyclist you breathe through your nose. It may be possible he has a problem with his sinuses or something else causing breathing through the nose. If this were the case, you would never want to make it public as any defect is often exposed. Also, I have to watch Martinez fights and see if he is gasping and also waits to re-energize.
Martinez vs Mayweather I agree with you. Regarding Marquez, you are correct, but Floyd was in no danger at anytime and he was aware he would be better in every aspect. Martinez remember was groomed as a soccer player and cyclist, and didn't switch till his early 20s to boxing. This shows that he wasn't properly trained or already carried bad habits. Being a cyclist you breathe through your nose. It may be possible he has a problem with his sinuses or something else causing breathing through the nose. If this were the case, you would never want to make it public as any defect is often exposed. Also, I have to watch Martinez fights and see if he is gasping and also waits to re-energize.
Martinez vs Mayweather I agree with you. Regarding Marquez, you are correct, but Floyd was in no danger at anytime and he was aware he would be better in every aspect. Martinez remember was groomed as a soccer player and cyclist, and didn't switch till his early 20s to boxing. This shows that he wasn't properly trained or already carried bad habits. Being a cyclist you breathe through your nose. It may be possible he has a problem with his sinuses or something else causing breathing through the nose. If this were the case, you would never want to make it public as any defect is often exposed. Also, I have to watch Martinez fights and see if he is gasping and also waits to re-energize.
if theres one thing we can agree on it's that martinez is overated and a fighter I will be closely watching to make money off an upset on him. He's a fast but not skilled.
Quote Originally Posted by ZOUK:
Martinez vs Mayweather I agree with you. Regarding Marquez, you are correct, but Floyd was in no danger at anytime and he was aware he would be better in every aspect. Martinez remember was groomed as a soccer player and cyclist, and didn't switch till his early 20s to boxing. This shows that he wasn't properly trained or already carried bad habits. Being a cyclist you breathe through your nose. It may be possible he has a problem with his sinuses or something else causing breathing through the nose. If this were the case, you would never want to make it public as any defect is often exposed. Also, I have to watch Martinez fights and see if he is gasping and also waits to re-energize.
if theres one thing we can agree on it's that martinez is overated and a fighter I will be closely watching to make money off an upset on him. He's a fast but not skilled.
He doesn't have technical abilities to adjust on relies on pure athleticism. Although I think he would crush Manny because his natural size advantage, great speed, stamina, and the fact that Manny is not a boxer that relies on measuring, timing, defensive countering... he's offensive and Roach did a good job making him a two-handed fighter and one that learned footwork and a solid balance. Most fighters at his age can't make major adjustments in their style and boxing ability. Manny did, but as you notice he can't switch adjustments mid-fight (like against Marquez). I'm often blasting Floyd with many negatives, but even though a fighter doesn't fight the very best opponents, it does not mean for a second he can't. He has shown the ability and dominance, and besides being athletically gifted, he also has a natural innate boxing IQ and his family being in the game for a long time allowed him to properly set-up a successful career. I get frustrated when you know a fighter has so much talent, but uses way to much caution in a way that actually a fighter like him should be listed on all-time greatest lbs-for-lbs lists, but he only kept himself off it. Prime example is when Cotto was considered top 5 lbs-for-lbs being undefeated, Floyd could have fought Cotto and KO'd him late and looked like he should against top fighters (many undefeated or haven't lost in so long). He would have made Cotto lose every round and KO'd him in the late rounds. Cotto did have some early moments against Manny but he was clearly losing, but had some defining moments. Against Floyd, he would have struck out every round.
He doesn't have technical abilities to adjust on relies on pure athleticism. Although I think he would crush Manny because his natural size advantage, great speed, stamina, and the fact that Manny is not a boxer that relies on measuring, timing, defensive countering... he's offensive and Roach did a good job making him a two-handed fighter and one that learned footwork and a solid balance. Most fighters at his age can't make major adjustments in their style and boxing ability. Manny did, but as you notice he can't switch adjustments mid-fight (like against Marquez). I'm often blasting Floyd with many negatives, but even though a fighter doesn't fight the very best opponents, it does not mean for a second he can't. He has shown the ability and dominance, and besides being athletically gifted, he also has a natural innate boxing IQ and his family being in the game for a long time allowed him to properly set-up a successful career. I get frustrated when you know a fighter has so much talent, but uses way to much caution in a way that actually a fighter like him should be listed on all-time greatest lbs-for-lbs lists, but he only kept himself off it. Prime example is when Cotto was considered top 5 lbs-for-lbs being undefeated, Floyd could have fought Cotto and KO'd him late and looked like he should against top fighters (many undefeated or haven't lost in so long). He would have made Cotto lose every round and KO'd him in the late rounds. Cotto did have some early moments against Manny but he was clearly losing, but had some defining moments. Against Floyd, he would have struck out every round.
Hot Forum Topics
