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    All Forums | Boxing

    Lbs-for-Lbs Hardest Punchers (Top 1-5)

    ZOUK
    KWIK-E-MART
    NJDevils
    thesoulpurpose
    BigPapa21
    ...
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    Views: 1703
    Posts: 22
     
    ZOUK
    ZOUK
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    Posted: Oct. 4, 2011 - 10:19 PM ET #1

    An interesting list I found written by Ben Cohen with history, quotes and opinions. I liked it because it agrred with my view on hardest puncher as Julian Jackson. Also, no list complete without Tommy "Hitman" Hearns.

    1. Julian Jackson

    Jackson’s power at 154-160lbs was absolutely freakish. Despite lacking elite boxing skill, the Virgin Island Middleweight tore his way through 55 opponents, knocking out 49 of them and winning several world titles on the way. His one punch knockout of Herol Graham was one of the best in boxing history, especially as Jackson was badly losing in their title bout in 1990. The almighty right hand that knocked Graham out before he hit the canvass has been replayed in every knockout compilation worth watching. Graham lay unconscious for 5 minutes after being caught, and was never really the same afterwards. Jackson’s ability to literally touch an opponent and hurt them meant he was always dangerous making every fight he was in a must watch event.

    2. Earnie Shavers

    Earnie Shavers was without a doubt the hardest punching heavyweight of all time. The American born bruiser wasn’t exactly the most refined of fighters, but his power was so extreme he could turn a fight around with one punch. For the most part, Shavers Most weighed under 210lbs suggesting the Liverpudlian based American could have fought at the modern day cruiserweight limit. He destroyed Ken Norton in one round, dropped Larry Holmes, and landed one of the hardest punches ever seen against Ron Lyle. Shavers right hand was the sort of punch the caused audiences to turn away when it landed. Both Holmes and Ali stated that Shavers hit them harder then anyone else, and given their combined resume, (Foreman, Tyson, Frazier, Liston), it would be hard to disagree.

    3. Prince Naseem Hamed

    After Hamed destroyed tough South African Vuyani Bungu in March of 2000, referee Joe Cortez stated that the Prince was the hardest punching featherweight he had ever seen. Weighing a mere 126lbs in his prime, Hamed’s power was nothing short of incredible. Not only did he have knock out power in both fists, the young Prince could generate fight-ending force from a bewildering array of angles. After clinically knocking out Augie Sanchez with some hammering blows in 2001, many ringsides could not believe that the diminutive Hamed did not have something in his gloves. His power was so amazing that his sparring partners regularly reported it being equal to that of a middleweight or above. Stories of bashing up heavyweights in his gym spread like wildfire, and coupled with some of the most awesome knockouts the featherweight division has ever seen, it would be fair to place Hamed’s power alongside the very best.

    4. Tommy Hearns

    Tommy Hearns was one of those rare fighters who managed to carry their power up through different weight categories. From 147 to 190lbs, Hearns possessed crunching power that could KO a fighter with one punch. Perhaps the most frightening display of his power came when he fought Roberto Duran at 154lbs. It was one of the most one-sided beatings ever seen between two great fighters, with Duran tasting the canvass three times. The final knockout came while Duran was pinned against the ropes where Hearns landed a right hand that would have felled most heavyweights. Duran was out before he hit the canvass, and the fight was promptly stopped. Hearns gangly 6ft1 frame was enormous, and the kinetic power he could generate was genuinely scary. As he filled out in weight, Hearns had no problem turning the extra pounds into extra force, retaining devastating power up to the cruiserweight division.

    5. Sugar Ray Robinson

    Not only was Ray Robinson one of the most skilled boxer of all time, he was one the best punchers as well. Lithe and slender, Robinson generated his power from his perfect technique. He pivoted on his feet, torqued his hips and maintained perfect posture while delivering pinpoint accurate punches. Robinson scored one-punch knockouts all the way from lightweight up to middleweight, proving that power was not just a product of muscle size. His most famous knockout came over the teak tough Gene Fullmer at middleweight. After losing a decision to Fullmer a few months earlier, Robinson landed the most perfect left hook ever landed in the 5th round of the rematch.

    “I still don’t know anything about the punch,” Fullmer said years after the bout, “except I watched it on movies a number of times. The first thing I knew, I was standing up. I asked my manager, ‘What happened?’ and he said, ‘They counted ten.’ Up to then, I probably got to thinking I couldn’t be knocked out. And all at once, I realized that anybody can. It’s just got to be in the right place at the right time and you’re gone.”

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    An interesting list I found written by Ben Cohen with history, quotes and opinions. I liked it because it agrred with my view on hardest puncher as Julian Jackson. Also, no list complete without Tommy "Hitman" Hearns.

    1. Julian Jackson

    Jackson’s power at 154-160lbs was absolutely freakish. Despite lacking elite boxing skill, the Virgin Island Middleweight tore his way through 55 opponents, knocking out 49 of them and winning several world titles on the way. His one punch knockout of Herol Graham was one of the best in boxing history, especially as Jackson was badly losing in their title bout in 1990. The almighty right hand that knocked Graham out before he hit the canvass has been replayed in every knockout compilation worth watching. Graham lay unconscious for 5 minutes after being caught, and was never really the same afterwards. Jackson’s ability to literally touch an opponent and hurt them meant he was always dangerous making every fight he was in a must watch event.

    2. Earnie Shavers

    Earnie Shavers was without a doubt the hardest punching heavyweight of all time. The American born bruiser wasn’t exactly the most refined of fighters, but his power was so extreme he could turn a fight around with one punch. For the most part, Shavers Most weighed under 210lbs suggesting the Liverpudlian based American could have fought at the modern day cruiserweight limit. He destroyed Ken Norton in one round, dropped Larry Holmes, and landed one of the hardest punches ever seen against Ron Lyle. Shavers right hand was the sort of punch the caused audiences to turn away when it landed. Both Holmes and Ali stated that Shavers hit them harder then anyone else, and given their combined resume, (Foreman, Tyson, Frazier, Liston), it would be hard to disagree.

    3. Prince Naseem Hamed

    After Hamed destroyed tough South African Vuyani Bungu in March of 2000, referee Joe Cortez stated that the Prince was the hardest punching featherweight he had ever seen. Weighing a mere 126lbs in his prime, Hamed’s power was nothing short of incredible. Not only did he have knock out power in both fists, the young Prince could generate fight-ending force from a bewildering array of angles. After clinically knocking out Augie Sanchez with some hammering blows in 2001, many ringsides could not believe that the diminutive Hamed did not have something in his gloves. His power was so amazing that his sparring partners regularly reported it being equal to that of a middleweight or above. Stories of bashing up heavyweights in his gym spread like wildfire, and coupled with some of the most awesome knockouts the featherweight division has ever seen, it would be fair to place Hamed’s power alongside the very best.

    4. Tommy Hearns

    Tommy Hearns was one of those rare fighters who managed to carry their power up through different weight categories. From 147 to 190lbs, Hearns possessed crunching power that could KO a fighter with one punch. Perhaps the most frightening display of his power came when he fought Roberto Duran at 154lbs. It was one of the most one-sided beatings ever seen between two great fighters, with Duran tasting the canvass three times. The final knockout came while Duran was pinned against the ropes where Hearns landed a right hand that would have felled most heavyweights. Duran was out before he hit the canvass, and the fight was promptly stopped. Hearns gangly 6ft1 frame was enormous, and the kinetic power he could generate was genuinely scary. As he filled out in weight, Hearns had no problem turning the extra pounds into extra force, retaining devastating power up to the cruiserweight division.

    5. Sugar Ray Robinson

    Not only was Ray Robinson one of the most skilled boxer of all time, he was one the best punchers as well. Lithe and slender, Robinson generated his power from his perfect technique. He pivoted on his feet, torqued his hips and maintained perfect posture while delivering pinpoint accurate punches. Robinson scored one-punch knockouts all the way from lightweight up to middleweight, proving that power was not just a product of muscle size. His most famous knockout came over the teak tough Gene Fullmer at middleweight. After losing a decision to Fullmer a few months earlier, Robinson landed the most perfect left hook ever landed in the 5th round of the rematch.

    “I still don’t know anything about the punch,” Fullmer said years after the bout, “except I watched it on movies a number of times. The first thing I knew, I was standing up. I asked my manager, ‘What happened?’ and he said, ‘They counted ten.’ Up to then, I probably got to thinking I couldn’t be knocked out. And all at once, I realized that anybody can. It’s just got to be in the right place at the right time and you’re gone.”

     
    KWIK-E-MART
    KWIK-E-MART
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    Posted: Oct. 6, 2011 - 8:24 PM ET #2

    Nice write up - thanks
    Reply
    Nice write up - thanks
     
    ZOUK
    ZOUK
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    Posts: 1121
    Posted: Oct. 6, 2011 - 11:57 PM ET #3

    KWIK-E-MART: Thanks! It was a copy-paste. I just thought it would peak some interest. I'm writing an article about the subject and also I have comments regarding what other fighters have stated. I'll go more into the Earnie Shavers subject in my next post, but for now I leave you with this.
       The 2009 documentary "Facing Ali" interviewed 10 opponents of Ali, and somehow 90% of the conversation had nothing to do with Ali (LOL - I guess they forgot the title). Fighters did talk about the biggest hitter and they all claimed Earnie Shavers. Several fought Foreman, Tyson and several other big hitters but the title went to Shavers. I don't think the fighters would lie, but all fighters are very prideful so you have to take in account a conscious or sub-sonscious bias. Boxers in the "Facing Ali" documentary commented on the hardest puncher they ever fought and Shavers was the consensus. Shavers lost to several in the documentary (Lyle TKO 6th; Ali UD15; Holmes 12UD & TKO 11th) and beat only Norton with a first round KO. Consider this if you fought Shavers: You can claim you fought the hardest puncher ever and won (except Norton). This would make a strong statement that you had a great chin and could take a serious punch from the hardest puncher ever and continue on to be victorious no matter how much bad the pain. Knowing Shavers had that punch shows courage and the heart of a champion to fight him. The pride fighters have is enormous and to say you fought (and even won) such a fighter displays merit.
       Going to far back in boxing history becomes a problem for the following reasons:
         - We don't always have a lot of footage and the quality difference.
         - We have terrible decisions these days, back then cheating (fixed outcomes) was common and expected.
         - Often fighters took a dive or made it go the distance (effecting the KO percentage).
         - Glove weight and ways to cheat were easier.
         - I'm sure most of you get the idea.
       Overall I like that Julian Jackson was listed, but the list is to heavyweight biased. Naturally bigger guys hit harder and a chin can only take so much. That is why when you state pound-for-pound, the lighter the fighter then the more impressive the knock out. Consider how big a puncher Israel Vasquez (122lbs) was at Bantamweight. Israel Vasquez verse Rafael Marquez was a super trilogy, although they had four fights (the last fight Vasquez was totally finished before it started). Marquez was a sharp crisp puncher who use to shred up faces and he hit very hard as well. Vasquez was slower, didn't have a jab like Marquez and much the inferior boxer, but he was very tough like Marquez. This allowed him to absorb many accurate punches from Rafael on every part of the body and still carry such power throughout the fight that Marquez often showed him a lot of respect. Vasquez use to change the tide with one big over hand punch that many times didn't land totally flush, but enough to knock down, startle or stun Marquez just like that. Doing a quick comparison from Ben Cohen's list I posted, let's use his #9 Rocky Marciano. Marciano was a bull and punched his opponent anywhere he could land and he punched with authority, hurting opponents with every shot. Rocky's style and the use of his power was non-stop punching and breaking not only his opponent's face and bones, but even the man's spirit. When Rocky was done with a fighter you could claim that most men were not the same after they fought him. Sometimes being very tough is a curse as it means that you can stand and take a beating. Now back to Vasquez, he didn't throw as much or like Marciano did, but when he landed any clean shot, it usually ended the fight, knocked or hurt his opponent all with a single shot! I hope people understand my point and don't take it personal if your a Marciano fan. I used Marciano as an example to set the standard high.
       Good Luck and I hope many of you get the chance to watch Dawson vs Hopkins as it is going to be a decent fight.
    Reply
    KWIK-E-MART: Thanks! It was a copy-paste. I just thought it would peak some interest. I'm writing an article about the subject and also I have comments regarding what other fighters have stated. I'll go more into the Earnie Shavers subject in my next post, but for now I leave you with this.
       The 2009 documentary "Facing Ali" interviewed 10 opponents of Ali, and somehow 90% of the conversation had nothing to do with Ali (LOL - I guess they forgot the title). Fighters did talk about the biggest hitter and they all claimed Earnie Shavers. Several fought Foreman, Tyson and several other big hitters but the title went to Shavers. I don't think the fighters would lie, but all fighters are very prideful so you have to take in account a conscious or sub-sonscious bias. Boxers in the "Facing Ali" documentary commented on the hardest puncher they ever fought and Shavers was the consensus. Shavers lost to several in the documentary (Lyle TKO 6th; Ali UD15; Holmes 12UD & TKO 11th) and beat only Norton with a first round KO. Consider this if you fought Shavers: You can claim you fought the hardest puncher ever and won (except Norton). This would make a strong statement that you had a great chin and could take a serious punch from the hardest puncher ever and continue on to be victorious no matter how much bad the pain. Knowing Shavers had that punch shows courage and the heart of a champion to fight him. The pride fighters have is enormous and to say you fought (and even won) such a fighter displays merit.
       Going to far back in boxing history becomes a problem for the following reasons:
         - We don't always have a lot of footage and the quality difference.
         - We have terrible decisions these days, back then cheating (fixed outcomes) was common and expected.
         - Often fighters took a dive or made it go the distance (effecting the KO percentage).
         - Glove weight and ways to cheat were easier.
         - I'm sure most of you get the idea.
       Overall I like that Julian Jackson was listed, but the list is to heavyweight biased. Naturally bigger guys hit harder and a chin can only take so much. That is why when you state pound-for-pound, the lighter the fighter then the more impressive the knock out. Consider how big a puncher Israel Vasquez (122lbs) was at Bantamweight. Israel Vasquez verse Rafael Marquez was a super trilogy, although they had four fights (the last fight Vasquez was totally finished before it started). Marquez was a sharp crisp puncher who use to shred up faces and he hit very hard as well. Vasquez was slower, didn't have a jab like Marquez and much the inferior boxer, but he was very tough like Marquez. This allowed him to absorb many accurate punches from Rafael on every part of the body and still carry such power throughout the fight that Marquez often showed him a lot of respect. Vasquez use to change the tide with one big over hand punch that many times didn't land totally flush, but enough to knock down, startle or stun Marquez just like that. Doing a quick comparison from Ben Cohen's list I posted, let's use his #9 Rocky Marciano. Marciano was a bull and punched his opponent anywhere he could land and he punched with authority, hurting opponents with every shot. Rocky's style and the use of his power was non-stop punching and breaking not only his opponent's face and bones, but even the man's spirit. When Rocky was done with a fighter you could claim that most men were not the same after they fought him. Sometimes being very tough is a curse as it means that you can stand and take a beating. Now back to Vasquez, he didn't throw as much or like Marciano did, but when he landed any clean shot, it usually ended the fight, knocked or hurt his opponent all with a single shot! I hope people understand my point and don't take it personal if your a Marciano fan. I used Marciano as an example to set the standard high.
       Good Luck and I hope many of you get the chance to watch Dawson vs Hopkins as it is going to be a decent fight.
     
    NJDevils
    NJDevils
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    Posted: Oct. 7, 2011 - 12:21 AM ET #4

    Julian Jackson had awesome power..His KO of Terry Norris?

    His fights with Gerard McLellan were classics

    Go to youtube and search Julian Jackson you will be there a while watching his KOs
    Reply
    Julian Jackson had awesome power..His KO of Terry Norris?

    His fights with Gerard McLellan were classics

    Go to youtube and search Julian Jackson you will be there a while watching his KOs
     
    NJDevils
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    Posted: Oct. 7, 2011 - 12:21 AM ET #5

    ! not ?
    Reply
    ! not ?
     
    thesoulpurpose
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    Posted: Oct. 7, 2011 - 1:03 AM ET #6

    1, JIMMY WILDE,  at his best wilde weight was between 98 and 105 lbs, but routinely koed featherweights and I am talking knocked out cold, the travelling fairs were very popular during wilde's time and before and during his career, his promotor would offer 1 pound (wilde was from across the pound) to any man regardless of size that could last 4 rounds with wilde and supposidley never once had to pay up, but just think about this, DOCTORS approached wild and asked him if they could do some labratory test on him to see how a man of his size could generate such amazing power, (they found nothing abnormal )  just think about that, excuse me mr wilde can we do some test on you because your a freak.  pound for pound number 1 has too be wilde,     2, SAM LANGFORD,  3,  STANLEY KETCHEL,  4  BOB FOSTER,  5, ERNIE SHAVERS
    Reply
    1, JIMMY WILDE,  at his best wilde weight was between 98 and 105 lbs, but routinely koed featherweights and I am talking knocked out cold, the travelling fairs were very popular during wilde's time and before and during his career, his promotor would offer 1 pound (wilde was from across the pound) to any man regardless of size that could last 4 rounds with wilde and supposidley never once had to pay up, but just think about this, DOCTORS approached wild and asked him if they could do some labratory test on him to see how a man of his size could generate such amazing power, (they found nothing abnormal )  just think about that, excuse me mr wilde can we do some test on you because your a freak.  pound for pound number 1 has too be wilde,     2, SAM LANGFORD,  3,  STANLEY KETCHEL,  4  BOB FOSTER,  5, ERNIE SHAVERS
     
    BigPapa21
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    Posted: Oct. 7, 2011 - 5:15 AM ET #7

    George Foreman gotta be in there somewhere. To this day I don't know how Holmes got up in the 7th round when Shavers crushed him with the over hand right. If Shavers had any stamina he would have been champ a long time in that era.
    Reply
    George Foreman gotta be in there somewhere. To this day I don't know how Holmes got up in the 7th round when Shavers crushed him with the over hand right. If Shavers had any stamina he would have been champ a long time in that era.
     
    ZOUK
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    Posted: Oct. 7, 2011 - 6:16 AM ET #8

      I agree with you BigPapa21. I believe George was the one of the biggest punchers ever (possibly the biggest). Slow and used arm punches, but he is one of those guys with freak strength. He hit Frazier that caused a delayed reaction from Frazier's body causing him to bounce in the air. People thought that Michael Moorer took a dive or he had a china chin. Moorer did have a suspect chin at heavyweight, but he was smart, but another negative for him as he was lazy. I remember Steward berating him for not listening and being lazy, and Steward said "If you don't listen this round and do what I ask, then I'll go back to the dressing room and let you finish up!" - LOL
       Against Evander when he got hurt in the 2nd round he immediately took a knee for a standing eight count, this is when most boxers try to fight back, cover-up or hand on in a clinch. He went on that fight to win the heavyweight championship. He fought Foreman next and the whole fight Foreman would either throw the jab or a lead right. Moorer was way ahead in the 10th round and would only lose the title by knock out. People don't realize but George set-up that simple 1-2 shot that put Moorer to sleep. When George threw that jab and connected, Moorer had his gloves up and George kept the hand out there basically blinding Moorer, and then he threw the fast straight right that got through the guard and history was made.
       Tyson with the speed, leverage, torque and accuracy was deadly. He just about fractured Golota's skull with one punch, and the man Tyson hit has one giant cranium. Difficult to leave Tyson out. Ali stated next to Frazier, Shavers hit him the hardest. If Tyson landed the shots Frazier did on Ali, I don't see how Ali or anyone could have continued and gone 12 rounds (not even the 15 rounds). Tyson's first fight against Holyfield was a great fight to show young fighters about body punching. Watch the fight and see if you notice in an earlier round Tyson lands a hard body shot and it hurts Holyfield to the point that Evander doesn't punch back and holds on, and Tyson never went back to the body and continued to throw one punch head shots. Tyson use to be like Frazier to the body and then he became a head-hunter like so many other fighters!
       David Tua is also a monster puncher. He hits opponents and they fall in the same fashion after Joe Louis connected with several consecutive punches and people would tip over or collapse like they died.
    Reply
      I agree with you BigPapa21. I believe George was the one of the biggest punchers ever (possibly the biggest). Slow and used arm punches, but he is one of those guys with freak strength. He hit Frazier that caused a delayed reaction from Frazier's body causing him to bounce in the air. People thought that Michael Moorer took a dive or he had a china chin. Moorer did have a suspect chin at heavyweight, but he was smart, but another negative for him as he was lazy. I remember Steward berating him for not listening and being lazy, and Steward said "If you don't listen this round and do what I ask, then I'll go back to the dressing room and let you finish up!" - LOL
       Against Evander when he got hurt in the 2nd round he immediately took a knee for a standing eight count, this is when most boxers try to fight back, cover-up or hand on in a clinch. He went on that fight to win the heavyweight championship. He fought Foreman next and the whole fight Foreman would either throw the jab or a lead right. Moorer was way ahead in the 10th round and would only lose the title by knock out. People don't realize but George set-up that simple 1-2 shot that put Moorer to sleep. When George threw that jab and connected, Moorer had his gloves up and George kept the hand out there basically blinding Moorer, and then he threw the fast straight right that got through the guard and history was made.
       Tyson with the speed, leverage, torque and accuracy was deadly. He just about fractured Golota's skull with one punch, and the man Tyson hit has one giant cranium. Difficult to leave Tyson out. Ali stated next to Frazier, Shavers hit him the hardest. If Tyson landed the shots Frazier did on Ali, I don't see how Ali or anyone could have continued and gone 12 rounds (not even the 15 rounds). Tyson's first fight against Holyfield was a great fight to show young fighters about body punching. Watch the fight and see if you notice in an earlier round Tyson lands a hard body shot and it hurts Holyfield to the point that Evander doesn't punch back and holds on, and Tyson never went back to the body and continued to throw one punch head shots. Tyson use to be like Frazier to the body and then he became a head-hunter like so many other fighters!
       David Tua is also a monster puncher. He hits opponents and they fall in the same fashion after Joe Louis connected with several consecutive punches and people would tip over or collapse like they died.
     
    thesoulpurpose
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    Posted: Oct. 7, 2011 - 8:23 PM ET #9

    George foreman was so strong, but he rarely koed guys with one single shot, actually I think liston, tyson and tua were all bigger punchers than foreman, foreman's technique was lacking, he clubbed at you, he had no snap on his shots, but still one of the top 20  hardest punchers in history.
    Reply
    George foreman was so strong, but he rarely koed guys with one single shot, actually I think liston, tyson and tua were all bigger punchers than foreman, foreman's technique was lacking, he clubbed at you, he had no snap on his shots, but still one of the top 20  hardest punchers in history.
     
    thesoulpurpose
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    Posted: Oct. 7, 2011 - 8:46 PM ET #10

    zouk I think your referring to teddy atlas telling moore that he would go back to the dressing room if he didn't listen as opposed to emanuel stewart
    Reply
    zouk I think your referring to teddy atlas telling moore that he would go back to the dressing room if he didn't listen as opposed to emanuel stewart
     
    ZOUK
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    Posted: Oct. 7, 2011 - 11:38 PM ET #11

    I remember that as well, and it's almost the same story. Thanks for the info as i will find and watch those clips then update the thread.

    Reply
    I remember that as well, and it's almost the same story. Thanks for the info as i will find and watch those clips then update the thread.

     
    BigPapa21
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    Posted: Oct. 9, 2011 - 12:59 PM ET #12

    Quote Originally Posted by thesoulpurpose:

    zouk I think your referring to teddy atlas telling moore that he would go back to the dressing room if he didn't listen as opposed to emanuel stewart

    LOL it was teddy atlas but i didn't say nothing. I also think Liston had awesome power. Could you imagine if he really worked at it. The foreman vs ron lyle fight is one of my favorites. Liston definately had the best stare down in the center of the ring.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by thesoulpurpose:

    zouk I think your referring to teddy atlas telling moore that he would go back to the dressing room if he didn't listen as opposed to emanuel stewart

    LOL it was teddy atlas but i didn't say nothing. I also think Liston had awesome power. Could you imagine if he really worked at it. The foreman vs ron lyle fight is one of my favorites. Liston definately had the best stare down in the center of the ring.

     
    thesoulpurpose
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    Posted: Oct. 9, 2011 - 1:27 PM ET #13

    the ali vs liston fights were mob tainted, trust me on this one,   but liston was not only a deadly puncher, but also a solid boxer with fairly good defence as well, I actually think that he had the greatest jab in the history of the sport, think about it, he came forward ponderously and a lot of times just threw one single jab and kept guys off of him, it's because it was a battering ram, he would break your nose, puff your eyes, really bust you up with it,  it was as hard as other guys power shots, at his best he was damn near unbeatable,        for anyone who is interested in a good read, pick up THE DEVIL AND SONNY LISTON by nick touches, one hell of a book. 
    Reply
    the ali vs liston fights were mob tainted, trust me on this one,   but liston was not only a deadly puncher, but also a solid boxer with fairly good defence as well, I actually think that he had the greatest jab in the history of the sport, think about it, he came forward ponderously and a lot of times just threw one single jab and kept guys off of him, it's because it was a battering ram, he would break your nose, puff your eyes, really bust you up with it,  it was as hard as other guys power shots, at his best he was damn near unbeatable,        for anyone who is interested in a good read, pick up THE DEVIL AND SONNY LISTON by nick touches, one hell of a book. 
     
    thesoulpurpose
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    Posted: Oct. 9, 2011 - 1:29 PM ET #14

    author of the book is nick tosches as opposed to touches
    Reply
    author of the book is nick tosches as opposed to touches
     
    ZOUK
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    Posted: Oct. 9, 2011 - 7:01 PM ET #15

    Foreman was Liston's sparring partner & stated Liston was the only man that backed me up in the ring. Liston did have a great jab which allowed his under-rated defense, because he was known for offensive he was definitely under-rated overall.
    Reply
    Foreman was Liston's sparring partner & stated Liston was the only man that backed me up in the ring. Liston did have a great jab which allowed his under-rated defense, because he was known for offensive he was definitely under-rated overall.
     
    ZOUK
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    Posted: Oct. 10, 2011 - 1:57 AM ET #16

    Funny to think Liston destroyed fighters and people never name his at a heavyweight top 10 or pound-for-pound. He lost early career to Marshall, KOd Marshall 2 fights later. Lost to Ali twice (Ali was fast the mid 30's Liston never seen speed, except Patterson who had no effect with his punches and Ali moved constantly. The "Phantom Punch"... you can watch it in slow motion, his head snapped as far back without stopping, and he got up as the Walcott referring fiasco went on. He lost his 2nd to last fight, retiring his opponent causing a dteached retina. The Man wasn't hype, he was a monster.
    Reply
    Funny to think Liston destroyed fighters and people never name his at a heavyweight top 10 or pound-for-pound. He lost early career to Marshall, KOd Marshall 2 fights later. Lost to Ali twice (Ali was fast the mid 30's Liston never seen speed, except Patterson who had no effect with his punches and Ali moved constantly. The "Phantom Punch"... you can watch it in slow motion, his head snapped as far back without stopping, and he got up as the Walcott referring fiasco went on. He lost his 2nd to last fight, retiring his opponent causing a dteached retina. The Man wasn't hype, he was a monster.
     
    ZOUK
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    Posted: Oct. 10, 2011 - 2:05 AM ET #17

    Liston: 50 wins - 4 losses (1:early SD in career  2&3: Ali  4:Before beating Wepner, he lost a fight but his opponent retired suffering a detached retina. He KO'd guy so fast and easy. I use to wonder about Liston at his best vs Tyson at his best. Both had chins, etc... Tyson had superior speed and that would have made a difference. Any thoughts?
    Reply
    Liston: 50 wins - 4 losses (1:early SD in career  2&3: Ali  4:Before beating Wepner, he lost a fight but his opponent retired suffering a detached retina. He KO'd guy so fast and easy. I use to wonder about Liston at his best vs Tyson at his best. Both had chins, etc... Tyson had superior speed and that would have made a difference. Any thoughts?
     
    frank the tank
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    Posted: Oct. 10, 2011 - 7:53 PM ET #18

    I feel like Naseem power was a bit overrated. Definitely not top 5. I've got Julian Jackson as number one though
    Reply
    I feel like Naseem power was a bit overrated. Definitely not top 5. I've got Julian Jackson as number one though
     
    ZOUK
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    Posted: Oct. 10, 2011 - 9:31 PM ET #19

    As do I frank!
    Reply
    As do I frank!
     
    thesoulpurpose
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    Posted: Oct. 10, 2011 - 10:01 PM ET #20

    Quote Originally Posted by ZOUK:

    Liston: 50 wins - 4 losses (1:early SD in career  2&3: Ali  4:Before beating Wepner, he lost a fight but his opponent retired suffering a detached retina. He KO'd guy so fast and easy. I use to wonder about Liston at his best vs Tyson at his best. Both had chins, etc... Tyson had superior speed and that would have made a difference. Any thoughts?
      as I stated earlier I believe Liston has the greatest jab in the history of the sport and what does a fighter with a great jab want more than a fighter that will come straight at him?  the answer is nothing,  Liston had the longer reach and would catch mike coming in all night with that great jab, therefore setting up his power shots,both guys were monster punchers, but Liston was more skillful, better defensively and overall just a better fighter. Sonny wins every min.for as long as it lasts and how long will it last? I see Liston stopping mike somewhere between the 7th and 10th round.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by ZOUK:

    Liston: 50 wins - 4 losses (1:early SD in career  2&3: Ali  4:Before beating Wepner, he lost a fight but his opponent retired suffering a detached retina. He KO'd guy so fast and easy. I use to wonder about Liston at his best vs Tyson at his best. Both had chins, etc... Tyson had superior speed and that would have made a difference. Any thoughts?
      as I stated earlier I believe Liston has the greatest jab in the history of the sport and what does a fighter with a great jab want more than a fighter that will come straight at him?  the answer is nothing,  Liston had the longer reach and would catch mike coming in all night with that great jab, therefore setting up his power shots,both guys were monster punchers, but Liston was more skillful, better defensively and overall just a better fighter. Sonny wins every min.for as long as it lasts and how long will it last? I see Liston stopping mike somewhere between the 7th and 10th round.
     
    ZOUK
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    Posted: Oct. 10, 2011 - 11:31 PM ET #21

    thesoulpurpose: I'm not in agreement or dis-agreement at the moment. I would seriously have to go to the footage, see the contrast in styles, see how they each did in similar spots and then factor in speed, strength, chin, combinations, etc... and I total subjective analysis on how many different ways the fight could go. Then project the most likely, and then assess how each would do a certain way. Similar to thoroughbreds, you have to take into account many factors, but the greatest factor is how the race is run, who will take the lead, what the pace is set at, etc... but racing you have many horses that have competed against one another, so it would be more like horses from different eras.
    Reply
    thesoulpurpose: I'm not in agreement or dis-agreement at the moment. I would seriously have to go to the footage, see the contrast in styles, see how they each did in similar spots and then factor in speed, strength, chin, combinations, etc... and I total subjective analysis on how many different ways the fight could go. Then project the most likely, and then assess how each would do a certain way. Similar to thoroughbreds, you have to take into account many factors, but the greatest factor is how the race is run, who will take the lead, what the pace is set at, etc... but racing you have many horses that have competed against one another, so it would be more like horses from different eras.
     
     
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 12:26 AM ET #22

       I found and long article I wrote years back I just read that went into great detail. The style match-up was one that had positives and negative for both almost like every fight. Liston would have to jab more than he ever did against Tyson. Also, a major problem for Tyson was the long left hook that would consistently throw Tyson's balance off.
       Tyson had one of the best chins (and I don't recall ever seeing Liston hurt) and it makes me laugh when people that don't know boxing say Tyson had a China-Chin! Lennox Lewis was a moster hitter at Heavyweight, and when he measured an opponent and connect, that was the end of the fight. A way over-the-hill physically and mentally Tyson took the biggest shots from Lewis no other fighter today or the past 30 years I remember could take those shots. Even when he was KOd, it was all fatigue and mentally drained (like Ortiz was given the perfect chance to quit even though he wasn't truly hurt bad).
       We could argue power for each fighter, but I've seen Liston hit guys with up to 10 clean shots in a row and although they went down, they got up to take a beating. Tyson landing a clean 3 to 4 punch combination and it was usually lights out for good. Here is a man who practically cracked Golota's skull. Also, if Liston tried trading with Tyson he was did not have the speed to match punch for punch. Tyson would land first and the clean shot, and that would be the major difference in the fight. Now you take the Tyson who faced Evander, and allow Liston to jab and left hook and frustrate Tyson, it then becomes tactical for Liston as long as he stays disciplined. If he got careless, Tyson was the more devastating one punch knockout fighter.
       The one thing both had in common was the hit hard and powerful with both hands, at all angles and throughout the entire fight. I use to love Joe Louis throw those short crisp punches and opponents fell in a way as if they were in a war and one minute they are standing next to you, then the next they collapse from a sniper shot.
       Soul, remember the left hand shot Robinson hit Fullmer with in the bout he wanted to quit and they told him one more round and it was lights out. That punch reminds me of Liston and that left hook that's somewhat rounded but appears to have no body torque yet Floyd Patterson could say it hurt. Also, the 2 columns I pasted that an author made regarding big hitters (this is one), and Shavers is listed #2 all-time pound-for-pound, I still have a hard time believing Shavers overhand right was more devastating then Liston's right. Although Shavers couldn't fight very well, he through that hard right hand, it was almost identical to Liston's right. I'm still suprised McClellan isn't listed on punchers lists or even each weight divisions best fighters.
       Name a fighter that hit harder than Michael Moore at light heavyweight? Not many? Even pound-for-pound but we all knew he couldn't stay at that weight. They said with a low BFI his walking around weight was roughly 200lbs. So he had to knock off 25lbs of water and muscle. That's why he looked so tired after two rounds if a fighter made it that long. His first 26 bouts he won all by knock out and 18 never went past 3 rounds. I remember all the hype about Virgil Hill and he was champion the same time Moorer won the WBO title, yet Hill made it seem as if Moorer was dodging him. The truth came out when Roy Jones Jr KOd him with a body shot.
    Reply
       I found and long article I wrote years back I just read that went into great detail. The style match-up was one that had positives and negative for both almost like every fight. Liston would have to jab more than he ever did against Tyson. Also, a major problem for Tyson was the long left hook that would consistently throw Tyson's balance off.
       Tyson had one of the best chins (and I don't recall ever seeing Liston hurt) and it makes me laugh when people that don't know boxing say Tyson had a China-Chin! Lennox Lewis was a moster hitter at Heavyweight, and when he measured an opponent and connect, that was the end of the fight. A way over-the-hill physically and mentally Tyson took the biggest shots from Lewis no other fighter today or the past 30 years I remember could take those shots. Even when he was KOd, it was all fatigue and mentally drained (like Ortiz was given the perfect chance to quit even though he wasn't truly hurt bad).
       We could argue power for each fighter, but I've seen Liston hit guys with up to 10 clean shots in a row and although they went down, they got up to take a beating. Tyson landing a clean 3 to 4 punch combination and it was usually lights out for good. Here is a man who practically cracked Golota's skull. Also, if Liston tried trading with Tyson he was did not have the speed to match punch for punch. Tyson would land first and the clean shot, and that would be the major difference in the fight. Now you take the Tyson who faced Evander, and allow Liston to jab and left hook and frustrate Tyson, it then becomes tactical for Liston as long as he stays disciplined. If he got careless, Tyson was the more devastating one punch knockout fighter.
       The one thing both had in common was the hit hard and powerful with both hands, at all angles and throughout the entire fight. I use to love Joe Louis throw those short crisp punches and opponents fell in a way as if they were in a war and one minute they are standing next to you, then the next they collapse from a sniper shot.
       Soul, remember the left hand shot Robinson hit Fullmer with in the bout he wanted to quit and they told him one more round and it was lights out. That punch reminds me of Liston and that left hook that's somewhat rounded but appears to have no body torque yet Floyd Patterson could say it hurt. Also, the 2 columns I pasted that an author made regarding big hitters (this is one), and Shavers is listed #2 all-time pound-for-pound, I still have a hard time believing Shavers overhand right was more devastating then Liston's right. Although Shavers couldn't fight very well, he through that hard right hand, it was almost identical to Liston's right. I'm still suprised McClellan isn't listed on punchers lists or even each weight divisions best fighters.
       Name a fighter that hit harder than Michael Moore at light heavyweight? Not many? Even pound-for-pound but we all knew he couldn't stay at that weight. They said with a low BFI his walking around weight was roughly 200lbs. So he had to knock off 25lbs of water and muscle. That's why he looked so tired after two rounds if a fighter made it that long. His first 26 bouts he won all by knock out and 18 never went past 3 rounds. I remember all the hype about Virgil Hill and he was champion the same time Moorer won the WBO title, yet Hill made it seem as if Moorer was dodging him. The truth came out when Roy Jones Jr KOd him with a body shot.
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