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    All Forums | Boxing

    Oscar De La Hoya (Greatest Modern Era?)

    Double-Barrel
    G8RB8
    Josh_Nagel
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    Double-Barrel
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 12:46 PM ET #1

    A reply to Josh_Nagel:
     
    Against the very best off his opponents, he lost. Felix Trindad (close fight), 2 losses to Mosley (close fights), Hopkins he was KO'd and undersized for that match. Now don't forget about Felix Sturm, they gave Oscar the decision because he had a mega fight with Hopkins. He fought well against Mayweather but clearly lost, and the Manny fight was just a joke.
    He beat Vargas, who every top champion Vargas fought he lost against. Chavez was on a serious downslide after so many battles in the ring. Mayorga is not a boxer, he is a target. Camacho had now power and couldn't beat any real fighters. Arturo Gatti's speeed was way to slow for that to be a contest. Pernell is a crafty fighter, but in no means a physical threat to De La Hoya who just had to jab and keep him at bay.
     
    If you are considering De La Hoya as a top fighter off all time, he wouldn't rate very high. He often let down in his biggest fights. I'm not saying he wasn't entertaining or that he didn't give it his all. Let's say both decades (1990-2009). Roy Jones Jr,  Floyd Mayweather Jr, Manny Pacquiao, Juan Manuel Marquez, Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley, Joe Calzaghe, Lennox Lewis, Evander Hoylfield, and the tragic story of Gerald McLellan. You talk about entertainment, winning when it counts, looking spectacular, going toe-to-toe, great ring technicians, etc... This was off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are quite a few names I forgot to mention. De La Hoya was a great fighter, but it seemed when he was either the weaker or slower fighter, he didn't overcome those obstacles. That's was separates a very good fighter from the very best.
     
    The subjective arguments will come and go, but the objective stats are here to stay along with the footage. I thought Oscar did a great thing for boxing, and even better for his promoting. He re-invigorated what was a surely declining economy for boxing. It's even possible that if it wasn't for his involvement in Golden Boy, MMA would be that much closer to revenues and fans. All in good time though... it's all in good time.
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    A reply to Josh_Nagel:
     
    Against the very best off his opponents, he lost. Felix Trindad (close fight), 2 losses to Mosley (close fights), Hopkins he was KO'd and undersized for that match. Now don't forget about Felix Sturm, they gave Oscar the decision because he had a mega fight with Hopkins. He fought well against Mayweather but clearly lost, and the Manny fight was just a joke.
    He beat Vargas, who every top champion Vargas fought he lost against. Chavez was on a serious downslide after so many battles in the ring. Mayorga is not a boxer, he is a target. Camacho had now power and couldn't beat any real fighters. Arturo Gatti's speeed was way to slow for that to be a contest. Pernell is a crafty fighter, but in no means a physical threat to De La Hoya who just had to jab and keep him at bay.
     
    If you are considering De La Hoya as a top fighter off all time, he wouldn't rate very high. He often let down in his biggest fights. I'm not saying he wasn't entertaining or that he didn't give it his all. Let's say both decades (1990-2009). Roy Jones Jr,  Floyd Mayweather Jr, Manny Pacquiao, Juan Manuel Marquez, Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley, Joe Calzaghe, Lennox Lewis, Evander Hoylfield, and the tragic story of Gerald McLellan. You talk about entertainment, winning when it counts, looking spectacular, going toe-to-toe, great ring technicians, etc... This was off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are quite a few names I forgot to mention. De La Hoya was a great fighter, but it seemed when he was either the weaker or slower fighter, he didn't overcome those obstacles. That's was separates a very good fighter from the very best.
     
    The subjective arguments will come and go, but the objective stats are here to stay along with the footage. I thought Oscar did a great thing for boxing, and even better for his promoting. He re-invigorated what was a surely declining economy for boxing. It's even possible that if it wasn't for his involvement in Golden Boy, MMA would be that much closer to revenues and fans. All in good time though... it's all in good time.
     
    G8RB8
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 1:12 PM ET #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Double-Barrel:

    A reply to Josh_Nagel:
     



    You could have just done it in his thread.
    Bagel Sandwiches Suck
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double-Barrel:

    A reply to Josh_Nagel:
     



    You could have just done it in his thread.
     
    Josh_Nagel
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 1:18 PM ET #3

    Double-barrel,
     
    You make some excellent points. I realize that Oscar's record against truly elite competition will negatively affect his legacy. Even so, I truly believe he was robbed against Trinidad and twice against Mosley, particularly in the rematch. If he gets those decisions, maybe history looks at him differently.
     
    I also love the courage he showed against the likes of Hopkins and Mayweather. While I agree that he lost the Mayweather fight, just the fact that he left Mayweather bloodied and beaten is more than any other opponent has been able to accomplish.
     
    Yes, he was sluggish against Sturm and Forbes, but when the bright lights were really on, Oscar rarely failed to deliver a great fight. Thanks for your input and good luck.  
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    Double-barrel,
     
    You make some excellent points. I realize that Oscar's record against truly elite competition will negatively affect his legacy. Even so, I truly believe he was robbed against Trinidad and twice against Mosley, particularly in the rematch. If he gets those decisions, maybe history looks at him differently.
     
    I also love the courage he showed against the likes of Hopkins and Mayweather. While I agree that he lost the Mayweather fight, just the fact that he left Mayweather bloodied and beaten is more than any other opponent has been able to accomplish.
     
    Yes, he was sluggish against Sturm and Forbes, but when the bright lights were really on, Oscar rarely failed to deliver a great fight. Thanks for your input and good luck.  
     
    walktheline
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 1:33 PM ET #4

    Oscar doesn't crack my top 20 list, due to the above reason about losing all the fights that would have defined him. No more, no less.

    Now as far as relevance to the sport in the past decade... nobody has been as crucial to boxing's continued success. He was desperately needed in the post Tyson era. Without him, who knows how far boxing would have continued to fall. He easily the most important fighter of the last 15 years, without question.
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    Oscar doesn't crack my top 20 list, due to the above reason about losing all the fights that would have defined him. No more, no less.

    Now as far as relevance to the sport in the past decade... nobody has been as crucial to boxing's continued success. He was desperately needed in the post Tyson era. Without him, who knows how far boxing would have continued to fall. He easily the most important fighter of the last 15 years, without question.
     
    McNulty
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 4:56 PM ET #5

    Dlh has done a lot for boxing. He has changed the way to general public look at the sport. Casual fans only knew HW's and thats where the big paydays where. Oscar put light on the smaller divisions [welterweight's, etc.] and the past is now history...thank Crom.

    The big payday's are now within reach for the smaller guys and that gives young fighters coming up big incentives to take it pro.

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    Dlh has done a lot for boxing. He has changed the way to general public look at the sport. Casual fans only knew HW's and thats where the big paydays where. Oscar put light on the smaller divisions [welterweight's, etc.] and the past is now history...thank Crom.

    The big payday's are now within reach for the smaller guys and that gives young fighters coming up big incentives to take it pro.

     
    NJDevils
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 5:53 PM ET #6

    He never beat the best of the best. Sure he didnt duck anyone but he didnt beat the top tier guys

    I think he is overrated when people put him up as the greatest or best of his era
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    He never beat the best of the best. Sure he didnt duck anyone but he didnt beat the top tier guys

    I think he is overrated when people put him up as the greatest or best of his era
     
    McNulty
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 7:26 PM ET #7

    Dlh has been banging with the top dogs since 95'. If you get a chance look at his record. Very little filler. 

    He was beating BHop on the cards via SD; losing to SSM aren't bad losses, very close, plus the rematch is tainted because of SSM doing EPO. I remember one of the fights was real close and many think Dlh did it, I can't remember which one it was though...maybe part 2?

    Dlh beat Tito end of story. But the gods gave him the Quartey win...Ike had that shit.

    So who's left? Losing to PBF?

    Oscar was visibly shot in the Pacquiao fight. I saw it when he fought Forbes, but gave him the benefit of the doubt and called it ring rust cuz he had a 12 month layoff. Before Pac went down I told myself if he looks like ass, he's shot...if he looks aight, then it in fact was rust.

    Sturm, in my opinion, was a hiccup for Oscar. I had Dlh losing, but whatever.

    The man has done a lot. Not the "greatest" champion, but he deserves his due.
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    Dlh has been banging with the top dogs since 95'. If you get a chance look at his record. Very little filler. 

    He was beating BHop on the cards via SD; losing to SSM aren't bad losses, very close, plus the rematch is tainted because of SSM doing EPO. I remember one of the fights was real close and many think Dlh did it, I can't remember which one it was though...maybe part 2?

    Dlh beat Tito end of story. But the gods gave him the Quartey win...Ike had that shit.

    So who's left? Losing to PBF?

    Oscar was visibly shot in the Pacquiao fight. I saw it when he fought Forbes, but gave him the benefit of the doubt and called it ring rust cuz he had a 12 month layoff. Before Pac went down I told myself if he looks like ass, he's shot...if he looks aight, then it in fact was rust.

    Sturm, in my opinion, was a hiccup for Oscar. I had Dlh losing, but whatever.

    The man has done a lot. Not the "greatest" champion, but he deserves his due.
     
    Double-Barrel
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 9:26 PM ET #8

    He's earned his due. De La Hoya has defeated 17 world champions and has won 10 world titles in six different weight classes. He has also generated more money than any other boxer in the history of the sport.
    I'm not sure of this fact, but I remember him being signed to a million dollar bonus before his first match, mainly due to his amateur career that included 223 wins, 163 by knockout, with only 6 losses. He won the United States' only boxing gold medal at the 1992 Summer Olympics. His ring championships, intelligence, looks and charisma helped him rebuild the sport of boxing.
    So there is no argument that he in one of the most influential players in the game all time.
     
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    He's earned his due. De La Hoya has defeated 17 world champions and has won 10 world titles in six different weight classes. He has also generated more money than any other boxer in the history of the sport.
    I'm not sure of this fact, but I remember him being signed to a million dollar bonus before his first match, mainly due to his amateur career that included 223 wins, 163 by knockout, with only 6 losses. He won the United States' only boxing gold medal at the 1992 Summer Olympics. His ring championships, intelligence, looks and charisma helped him rebuild the sport of boxing.
    So there is no argument that he in one of the most influential players in the game all time.
     
     
    Josh_Nagel
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2009 - 11:56 PM ET #9

    Gentlemen, I am just glad to see a well-informed, round table chat about boxing. It's good to know there are fellow sportsmen out there who know their stuff when it comes to the fight game ... there aren't enough of us out there, and they are hard to find. Nice work McNulty and DB ... peace out.
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    Gentlemen, I am just glad to see a well-informed, round table chat about boxing. It's good to know there are fellow sportsmen out there who know their stuff when it comes to the fight game ... there aren't enough of us out there, and they are hard to find. Nice work McNulty and DB ... peace out.
     
    McNulty
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    Posted: Apr. 16, 2009 - 12:07 AM ET #10

    The thing thats killing me is seeing Omar and McNulty in the same thread...The Wire Season 7.
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    The thing thats killing me is seeing Omar and McNulty in the same thread...The Wire Season 7.
     
    SportsFan8890
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    Posted: Apr. 16, 2009 - 6:50 PM ET #11

    Did a lot for the sport of boxing, but not to be even mentioned as one of the Pound for Pound greatest ever. Lost a lot of his big fights, and the ones he did win are against competition who proved to not be as good as people believed they were or on their downfall. (Vargas - overrated) (Pernell - I think he lost that fight anyway) (Chavez - older then dirt) (Gatti - overrated club fighter) He did beat a very good Ike Quartey, but even that was a close close fight. His fights against Shane were close, but he lost and you gotta remember he was much much bigger then Shane and still let the smaller man beat him. Just a good solid fighter but still an Icon for the sport.
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    Did a lot for the sport of boxing, but not to be even mentioned as one of the Pound for Pound greatest ever. Lost a lot of his big fights, and the ones he did win are against competition who proved to not be as good as people believed they were or on their downfall. (Vargas - overrated) (Pernell - I think he lost that fight anyway) (Chavez - older then dirt) (Gatti - overrated club fighter) He did beat a very good Ike Quartey, but even that was a close close fight. His fights against Shane were close, but he lost and you gotta remember he was much much bigger then Shane and still let the smaller man beat him. Just a good solid fighter but still an Icon for the sport.
     
     
    boberts427
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    Posted: Apr. 17, 2009 - 1:48 PM ET #12

    Chavez the most respected athlete all time down here
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    Chavez the most respected athlete all time down here
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