Saturday Boxing

Lara/Hernandez over 8.5, +215, 10 units.

Spinks via decision, +467, 3 units.

spinks/k9 over.....

Always been a Lara fan even before he got robbed vs williams....think he gets the job done tonight....put sportsbook got him at 18-1......

Yuck. Spinks got hit low in that last flurry, but he had little to offer regardless. However, he MIGHT have been able to squeeze out a few more rounds. Unfortunate because he did rally to win several mid rounds. 

walktheline: Besides his initial win against Zab (who is known to fight only to the level of competition and in most eyes an under-achiever), Spinks is an average fighter (for a contender & ex-champion). I don't know his financial status, but he has fought very often among his hometown and they seem to enjoy watching him fight (win or lose). I think he is another fighter (I forgot who I mentioned the other day that was similar) that can be a decent indicator with a new fighter who has yet to fight an experienced fighter or ex-champion and is ready to see if he is yet on the level of the very best. As far as Spinks accomplishing anything, I'd say it's payday time each fight and as long as he puts forth the effort (unlike many future HOF fighters that come for a paycheck only with the slightest interest in competing and winning... via Mosley vs Pacquiao (or Mayweather, but Mayweather shut him down, as against Manny he was decided before the bout to just move around for twelve rounds).

spinks is a 34-year-old recovering alcoholic with chrons disease.

in his prime, cory moved up in weight to challenge a prime jermain taylor for the mw crown in a very good fight.

5'6" cotto, 5'6" bundrage, 5'8" mayweather and 5'7" canelo would have all been UD or KO'd by a prime jermain taylor.

 

First of all, Taylor is much bigger in size and weight in comparison to the fighters you mentioned, so a match-up would have to be a more hypothetical one. Taylor's lowest weigh-in ever was 158lbs, and averaged 162lbs lifetime.

Mayweather's heaviest was his last bout at 151lbs. His lifetime average is 135lbs (135.21).
Cotto's heaviest was 154lbs, but his average was just above junior welterweight.
Canelo is still on the fence as where he stands among the best. His heaviest was 154lbs, but lifetime was a welterweight natural.
Bundrage is a lifetime junior middleweight and is heaviest was 156lbs, and has done very little to show me much.

Using hypotheticals... Mayweather's technique and is too elite for a fundamental lacking Taylor. Cotto's hand speed couldn't keep up with Taylor, but if he did and we assume he had middleweight power, it could be similar to a Pavlik scenario.
Canelo is still untested, as the Mosley fight can be viewed as a positive and a negative.
Bundrage is the only one that I feel Taylor would walk through easily. He's never shown me much and Taylor's athleticism would have stopped him early on.

These are all assumptions because the weight classes although are one to two away, the size differential in those men is huge. Taylor could easily fight light-heavyweight is he wanted to do so. He has stayed around middle and super-middle weight and that being his natural weight.
Mayweather started lightweight and is around a natural welterweight now. Cotto the same. Canelo started at a much higher weight than the others and is a natural junior middleweight and can fight certain opponents up to middleweight.
Bundrage I don't even rank and most likely would have been lights out early if he brought up the same level he is now to middleweight.

You have an elite (Mayweather), very good fighter (Cotto), Canelo (a rising star and considered to be a great fighter), and a sub-par considering championship level or contender (Bundrage).

Qncyk1: It's hard enough ranking and handicapping fights with all the cheating, now adding in more fights that would be hypothetical and never come to pass is even harder. It was interesting because you named 4 fighters, all different levels of caliber fighters. GL with future bets!

these are current or former 154 champs, which is what cory spinks was. to say that cory spinks was an average fighter means, imo, that the aforementiond list of 154's are below average because none of these guys wouldve had a chance with a prime JT at 160.

prime jt went 24 rounds with arguably one of the top all-time mw's with said win now even looking better after what bernard was able to accomplish after the loss.

right now, 154 is probably the worst it has ever been in recent times, if not of all-time. tommy hearns, terry norris and srl have openly laughed at the current fighters at 154.

pbf versus prime JT at 160?

comparing cotto to KP?

unbelievable.

 

 

 

Fast athletic fighters that were offensive and had great output always gave Bernard problems. RJJ prime, Calzaghe, and Taylor... so it is mis-leading what Taylor ranks as a fighter. I over-rated him early in his career because I thought he was intelligent and would apply that to the ring... two very different things. Emotions make up most are decisions, not rationality and that was my mistake to think he would choose correctly.

Taylor is 6'1" with 75" reach, Cotto you listed at 5'6"... that's more than a half foot in height. The reach is 8" advantage for Taylor, but more importantly was the length from the armpit. Taylor is a natural middleweight and easily fights at super-middleweight and could compete at light heavyweight in the right match-up.

Cotto & Mayweather are smaller guys. The fact that 154lbs division is a joke for talent has no bearing on the situational comparison between fighters of much differential size.

Oscar would have been considered one the bigger of the fighters you listed (not including Taylor). Although he was winning and got off to a decent start, he had no match for Bernard Hopkins when he was KO'd with a body shot. Also, this time period Hopkins fought at 155lbs, but he easily fights at 175lbs of all muscle. Just because these smaller guys made a few transitional jumps up in weight does not make them natural middleweights.

Prime Mayweather was also smaller than he is know as most fighters after thirty years old gain weight due to slowed metabolism. Mayweather was at his fastest and strongest (during his lbs for lbs years) when he was under 135lbs. Taylor was at his fastest and strongest at 160lbs. That's 25lbs of all muscle in their physical primes, and roughly half a foot in height for Taylor. These mythical match-ups are not even apples vs oranges, it's more like a fruit vs a grain.

I never compared Cotto to KP. I was talking about Taylor burning energy causing him to stop. I loved KP for one reason, I made a lot on Bernard, and then people gave Sergio no respect with those fight odds, and it was an easy fight in my assumption. KP's weaknesses were clearly exposed by B-Hop. It was all timing and Pavlik doesn't have the hand speed or timing. The match with Sergio scared me with such a near even money bout as if I wasn't aware that Sergio was only using one arm or something. Now you get Sergio, who has good timing and great hand speed... how did KP think it would go. Besides for Taylor (who fought a terrible strategy in fight one, and did a rematch a few months to early in order to prepare properly for adjustments), KP has not beat a tested top tier fighter!

You stated me (which was a misunderstanding) as I compared Cotto to Pavlik.... was that because of the scenario, or per say fighters lbs for lbs. If you were implying that Cotto wasn't on the level of KP, then I would have to say unbelievable.
Cotto fought...
(undefeated) Ricardo Torres 28-0
Gianluca Branco 36-1-1
(undefeated) Paul Malignaggi 21-0
(undefeated) Carlos Quintana 23-0
Zab Judah 34-4
Shane Mosley 44-4 (war)
Antonio Margarito 36-5 (war; plaster wraps)
Joshua Clottey 35-2 (war; Clottey hurt knee; Cotto huge gash headbutt)
Manny Pacquiao 49-3-2 (war where he got destroyed)
...in two years time he fought six times. Mosley was a war that tested stamina. Margarito was a war but the wraps were enough. Clottey's size and style makes for a difficult fight for Cotto. Although Cotto had a huge gash early on, Clottey was using one leg to balance and use for leverage for most the fight, otherwise Cotto may have been stopped. Manny was way to fast for the lacking defensive Cotto and got one the most severe beatings in the past decade. Taking these 4 fights (2 others were just fillers) in such fashion in 2 years is enough to kill some fighters. Even two of the bouts in 2 years retires and destroys most fighters not only in the ring, but in life as well. Cotto not only suffered through and overcame, he jumped up in weight to get a big money fight (maybe with Floyd) and he got to rematch Margarito and it was all Cotto with 10th round RTD. Watching Cotto he seemed to be a better fighter defensively, but against Margarito at that point was easy. So after two bouts, and the rematch (revenge bout they called it), he got the MONEY call. He fought his best fight ever in a losing bout against Floyd. His strategy and will-power made for a semi-interesting bout. It looked much closer than it was, but Floyd clearly owned most the fight. Cotto smothered Floyd thus not allowing Floyd enough room to pick Cotto apart. Also, the glove choice of 10oz (which is the mandatory at that weight) helped him not get hit as hard or as flush thus reducing cuts or swelling. Also, although his shots he hit Floyd with were partials, it at least was enough to make Floyd step back and reset. Cotto being a natural 154lbs champion is a misconception. He is a natural welterweight, but added the weight for the payday fight.
Canelo being so young might mature in to a heavier weight class, but not a lot, because at 5'9" he will be at height and reach disadvantages and his hand speed isn't super, so he will have to much to overcome moving up. He will likely stay around 154lbs and maybe a few catch-weights. He is still young and barely tested despite his great poise, experience and maturity for such a young fighter.
Bundrage I have no comments about.
Mayweather would have picked Taylor apart with counter-punching and straight out fundamentals and an elite boxing technician with techniques Taylor could only dream to have!

cotto is not the same fighter at 154 than at 147.everyone knows the reason he went to 154 is because he had no hope of ever beating pac(cotto himself said the 145 weight had no effect on the fight) and was essentially chased out of 147 and saw an easier life at 154(injured p/t fighter in foreman and a ruined mayorga).

cotto is a fade and his value is at an all-time high.

i have a lot of resepect for cotto at 140-147(i lost against him vs. mosely/clottey and won vs margo 1) but none at 154. to insinuate that cotto couldve moved up to 160 and had the same results that kp had vs. prime taylor is something i dont want to put forth effort into discussing. ditto for pbf vs. prime taylor at 160. im sure that any knowledgeable boxing aficianado or past fighter would agree(srl, hearns, norris). its basically arguing with a three--year-old that 1+1= 2 when said child believes that it is 3.

those three pretty much laugh at a hypothetical fight involving themselves with mayweather and all three conclude the end result would be win by (t)ko. these guys are very reseverved and have to my knowledge never said anything deragatory about another fighter since leaving the sport. they are pretty much disgusted with the (j)mw division.

canelo is not 5'9". he is 5'7" and stevie forbes, who recently sparred with him, said as such on his twitter. photos will also substatiate his claim(he posted one) and saul was a good inch shorter than 5'8" mosely even with his one inch gumby hairstyle. there are only so many roberto durans(5'7" 156, vs barkley), montell griffins(5'7" 175) and mike tyson's(5'10" 217) that can successfully fight above their height limitation/restrictions and succeed. that is why everyone knows 154 is such shit right now as this division is historically 5'9" to 6'0".

kp was the first fighter to ko miranda(who had never been down before and had fought 12 rounds with AA) and was the first fighter to beat and ko taylor(who had also never been down before) and also beat him in a rematch. the same bronze medal olympic winner taylor that one year later is ahead on the cards against carl froch(168, hard and couldve fought in any era) until he is ko'd in the final round.

fwiw, i had the martinez fight even and kp pulling ahead against sm until kp(left alcohol rehab 10 days before the sm fight) was cut.