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    All Forums | Horse Racing

    The Arkansas Derby=Analysis and Picks

    mikeyp1
    vetdrm
    Midnight1
    Tygermyke
    pittsburghphil
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    mikeyp1
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 11:55 AM ET #1

    Oak Lawn, dirt, 1-1/8 miles; $1 MEEEEELION Dollars

    Lots of chatter among racing pundits this past week about not WHO will win the Kentucky Derby, but from WHERE the Derby winner will come with some solidly saying the Arkansas Derby is the one.

    Gormly had hardly crossed the finish line after winning the SA Derby when Randy Moss and Jerry Bailey speculated that those who have won in California and New York and in the Blue Grass were wayyyyy to slow to win the Big Race.

    I think Moss’ criticism of Irap as being way too slow, while with some merit because of the slow time, was somewhat unwarranted. Of course, a horse that doesn’t have consistent speed isn’t likely to beat the the speedsters, but what I saw in Irap was a horse with a ton of heart. Anyone close to the game knows how much “heart” means to the success of a young horse and how “building” heart helps a horse to get stronger and to learn how to win.

    On to the race that has become a real favorite of many of the Covers.com faithful, the Arkansas Derby.

    Before Oak Lawn got the casino money, this was sort of a sleepy, ho-hum affair that, at one point, was thought to be going bye-bye. However, the big slot money and Oak Lawn Triple Crown bonus money program collided with Smarty Jones’ win in 2004. Smarty was a local favorite with a great back story and his popularity helped propel the race to new heights.

    Among winners in recent years are some of those with legacy, including American Pharaoh, Afleet Alex, Curlin and Bodemeister with Bafffert, Pletcher and Asmussen winning trainers with a litany of top jocks earning wins.

    Today, we’ll see the long awaited return of Classic Empire, as well as the second stakes race for Malagacy along with Untrapped, Petrov and potential upsetter Lookin at Lee.

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    Oak Lawn, dirt, 1-1/8 miles; $1 MEEEEELION Dollars

    Lots of chatter among racing pundits this past week about not WHO will win the Kentucky Derby, but from WHERE the Derby winner will come with some solidly saying the Arkansas Derby is the one.

    Gormly had hardly crossed the finish line after winning the SA Derby when Randy Moss and Jerry Bailey speculated that those who have won in California and New York and in the Blue Grass were wayyyyy to slow to win the Big Race.

    I think Moss’ criticism of Irap as being way too slow, while with some merit because of the slow time, was somewhat unwarranted. Of course, a horse that doesn’t have consistent speed isn’t likely to beat the the speedsters, but what I saw in Irap was a horse with a ton of heart. Anyone close to the game knows how much “heart” means to the success of a young horse and how “building” heart helps a horse to get stronger and to learn how to win.

    On to the race that has become a real favorite of many of the Covers.com faithful, the Arkansas Derby.

    Before Oak Lawn got the casino money, this was sort of a sleepy, ho-hum affair that, at one point, was thought to be going bye-bye. However, the big slot money and Oak Lawn Triple Crown bonus money program collided with Smarty Jones’ win in 2004. Smarty was a local favorite with a great back story and his popularity helped propel the race to new heights.

    Among winners in recent years are some of those with legacy, including American Pharaoh, Afleet Alex, Curlin and Bodemeister with Bafffert, Pletcher and Asmussen winning trainers with a litany of top jocks earning wins.

    Today, we’ll see the long awaited return of Classic Empire, as well as the second stakes race for Malagacy along with Untrapped, Petrov and potential upsetter Lookin at Lee.

     
    vetdrm
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 11:57 AM ET #2

    Reply
     
    mikeyp1
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 12:01 PM ET #3

     #1 Rockin Rudy…..Doug O’Neill’s entry at 12-1 ML and on the improve, the son of Midshipman makes his big race debut off a career of 3/2-1-0 and a popper Beyer at 95 last out. That was on the turf, as was his three-year old debut last February, both second place finishes. Shipping in from SoCal, Rudy won his debut as a two-year old in wire fashion at 5-1/2 F in 1:03.59 after a blistering .21.8 first quarter. Mr. Gutierrez flies in for the ride (Leparoux rode Irap in the BG). The hood is off in his route debut and he should go for the lead and might hold it for at least half or so, if not all?. After Irap’s win in the Blue Grass, I can’t doubt the Milkshake Man’s decisions. Look for clues, but a piece could be in the offing.

    #2 Classic Empire…..Well, it’s about time! His injury issues (foot) aside, he looks ready for this. No trainer, or betting backer, likes to see a real horse like this miss a mid-TC race. While there is no indication Classic Empire is a freak, his lifetime of 6/4-0-1 says it all having won three Grade One’s, the BC Juve, Hopeful and Breeders Futurity. His Holy Bull wasn’t very good, but it is a race he probably needed off layoff. The question bettors should ask is, “If he failed off his last three-month layoff, will the same happen today?” Will his stalk and pounce style work with a ton of upfront speed today, including Malacacy and Petrov setting the pace with Rudy? The only one to Beyer at 100 (102 in the BC Juve), Leparoux, Frenchman #1, returns for Mark Casse. If Classic Empire wins this, he would have really earned it. If so, put a big circle around his name on Derby Day?

    #3 Silver Dust…..This guy sold for $510,000 and, as a Tapit colt out of a Hard Spun mare, you might think he should be better than 4/1-0-0. But before officially granting Underachiever Status, consider that he finished just 3-1/4 back to Melagacy in the Rebel after being last out of the gate with an 87 Beyer at the finish. Trainer Randy Morse put the blinkers on for his last work for this, a spicy .59.2. At 20-1, a very must consider for a taste. Veteran Lanerie holds the belt.

    #4 Petrov…A gate buster at a juicy 12-1, the winner of nothing yet is, me-thinks, a very possible to win this. Like Irap last week, this might be the day the Flatter colt (Bertrando mare) might put all of it together, although distance an issue. Petrov finished fourth, by just two out, to Malagacy in the Rebel with second’s in his previous three, including the Southwest garnering a 96 Beyer, (Boys, one of the best Beyer’s of all here), the Smarty Jones and Kings Swan. Local conditioner Ron Moquett puts Ricky Santana in the sack. Ricky won this last year on Creator. Steady work coming in and likely to stay near the leaders. If Petrov gets a pace, the light might go on. A possible upset with a healthy piece in mind.

    #6 Lookin at Lee…Many laughed at me for picking this guy to win the Rebel…and those of you who got a chuckle out it were right! However, while Lee finished 6th in that race, he was just 3-3/4 behind the winner after sitting boxed early, then shifting out for breathing room. Earned his highest lifetime Beyer in that one, an 86 figure. This guy can close and close well. With this field, the closing kick just might be the tonic for a win. Trainer Asmussen won last year with Creator and switches to Contreras. The pair are 22% wins in 102 races with the jock 20% this year, so take note! A handicapper’s choice, like with Petrov, I’m looking for the light switch. A consider for all, if not a part of the prize.

    #7 Sonnetter.…I thought this guy might do something good in the Rebel, and he did, finishing second to Malagacy losing by two. Sonnetter was shuffled out, which cost him early, but earned an 89 Beyer. Keith D. puts his bro, Kent D., in the side car for this with the work indicating the boys think the Midnight Lute colt can win. Kent won this in 1999 on Certain and, at 15-1, is worth and underlay looky.

    #9 Untrapped…...He’s been very solid on the Trail……3rd, two out in the Rebel; 2nd, two out in the Risen Star; 2nd, 1-1/4 out in the LeComte. That ain’t bad, folks, and worth rationalizing for win or major paper. What I like best is the switch to Mike Smith, especially since the lad comes off the pace with Mikey the tactician having a clock in his brain. Working steadily for this, Asmussen puts on the blinkers. It can all add up today. Can he handle the extra space? I think so.

    #11 Conquest Mo Money….Pretty good for an $8,500 seller, son of Uncle Mo has collected over $300K in checks, including a second place finish to Hence in the Sunland Derby….note a 1-1/8 miles distance in that one. The Sunland was a personal pain in my tuccus, just like last week’s SA Derby. The colt has talent at 4/3-1-0 lifetime, but his 87 Beyer in New Mexico might not be enough to get it done among this crowd. While I will pass for win, I will include in the rear-end of my tri wheel to ensure a price if this thing splits in the seams.


    Reply

     #1 Rockin Rudy…..Doug O’Neill’s entry at 12-1 ML and on the improve, the son of Midshipman makes his big race debut off a career of 3/2-1-0 and a popper Beyer at 95 last out. That was on the turf, as was his three-year old debut last February, both second place finishes. Shipping in from SoCal, Rudy won his debut as a two-year old in wire fashion at 5-1/2 F in 1:03.59 after a blistering .21.8 first quarter. Mr. Gutierrez flies in for the ride (Leparoux rode Irap in the BG). The hood is off in his route debut and he should go for the lead and might hold it for at least half or so, if not all?. After Irap’s win in the Blue Grass, I can’t doubt the Milkshake Man’s decisions. Look for clues, but a piece could be in the offing.

    #2 Classic Empire…..Well, it’s about time! His injury issues (foot) aside, he looks ready for this. No trainer, or betting backer, likes to see a real horse like this miss a mid-TC race. While there is no indication Classic Empire is a freak, his lifetime of 6/4-0-1 says it all having won three Grade One’s, the BC Juve, Hopeful and Breeders Futurity. His Holy Bull wasn’t very good, but it is a race he probably needed off layoff. The question bettors should ask is, “If he failed off his last three-month layoff, will the same happen today?” Will his stalk and pounce style work with a ton of upfront speed today, including Malacacy and Petrov setting the pace with Rudy? The only one to Beyer at 100 (102 in the BC Juve), Leparoux, Frenchman #1, returns for Mark Casse. If Classic Empire wins this, he would have really earned it. If so, put a big circle around his name on Derby Day?

    #3 Silver Dust…..This guy sold for $510,000 and, as a Tapit colt out of a Hard Spun mare, you might think he should be better than 4/1-0-0. But before officially granting Underachiever Status, consider that he finished just 3-1/4 back to Melagacy in the Rebel after being last out of the gate with an 87 Beyer at the finish. Trainer Randy Morse put the blinkers on for his last work for this, a spicy .59.2. At 20-1, a very must consider for a taste. Veteran Lanerie holds the belt.

    #4 Petrov…A gate buster at a juicy 12-1, the winner of nothing yet is, me-thinks, a very possible to win this. Like Irap last week, this might be the day the Flatter colt (Bertrando mare) might put all of it together, although distance an issue. Petrov finished fourth, by just two out, to Malagacy in the Rebel with second’s in his previous three, including the Southwest garnering a 96 Beyer, (Boys, one of the best Beyer’s of all here), the Smarty Jones and Kings Swan. Local conditioner Ron Moquett puts Ricky Santana in the sack. Ricky won this last year on Creator. Steady work coming in and likely to stay near the leaders. If Petrov gets a pace, the light might go on. A possible upset with a healthy piece in mind.

    #6 Lookin at Lee…Many laughed at me for picking this guy to win the Rebel…and those of you who got a chuckle out it were right! However, while Lee finished 6th in that race, he was just 3-3/4 behind the winner after sitting boxed early, then shifting out for breathing room. Earned his highest lifetime Beyer in that one, an 86 figure. This guy can close and close well. With this field, the closing kick just might be the tonic for a win. Trainer Asmussen won last year with Creator and switches to Contreras. The pair are 22% wins in 102 races with the jock 20% this year, so take note! A handicapper’s choice, like with Petrov, I’m looking for the light switch. A consider for all, if not a part of the prize.

    #7 Sonnetter.…I thought this guy might do something good in the Rebel, and he did, finishing second to Malagacy losing by two. Sonnetter was shuffled out, which cost him early, but earned an 89 Beyer. Keith D. puts his bro, Kent D., in the side car for this with the work indicating the boys think the Midnight Lute colt can win. Kent won this in 1999 on Certain and, at 15-1, is worth and underlay looky.

    #9 Untrapped…...He’s been very solid on the Trail……3rd, two out in the Rebel; 2nd, two out in the Risen Star; 2nd, 1-1/4 out in the LeComte. That ain’t bad, folks, and worth rationalizing for win or major paper. What I like best is the switch to Mike Smith, especially since the lad comes off the pace with Mikey the tactician having a clock in his brain. Working steadily for this, Asmussen puts on the blinkers. It can all add up today. Can he handle the extra space? I think so.

    #11 Conquest Mo Money….Pretty good for an $8,500 seller, son of Uncle Mo has collected over $300K in checks, including a second place finish to Hence in the Sunland Derby….note a 1-1/8 miles distance in that one. The Sunland was a personal pain in my tuccus, just like last week’s SA Derby. The colt has talent at 4/3-1-0 lifetime, but his 87 Beyer in New Mexico might not be enough to get it done among this crowd. While I will pass for win, I will include in the rear-end of my tri wheel to ensure a price if this thing splits in the seams.


     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 12:02 PM ET #4

    #12 Malagacy…..Many called for Horse of the Year honors (OK. I exaggerated a bit) after his win in the Rebel, his first graded stakes race. That was against a bit lesser. If you believe Sonnetter and Untrapped are the goods after finishing second and third to Melagacy, then maybe you got something here in a winner. The 12 hole isn’t doing the Shakleford colt any favors, but he started the Rebel in 11th place and bolted to second in a flash, then finishing strong at the end. The boy is 3 for 3 lifetime winning by a combined 24 lengths hitting Beyer’s of 89, 97 and 91 (Rebel). At 2-1 ML, Castellano has work to do with 3 or 4 getting out quickly. This is one of Todd’s better Derby hopes and I see no reason he cannot win today. Pletcher has four wins I the Ark. Derby with JJ vying for his first.

     

    My picks: Wow……so many variables. Classic Empire, Malagacy and which way do they go?

     

    #6 Lookin at Lee to win and place…..I think this race is begging for a closer in a Triple Crown season where closers have been sketchy. I might be stretching it a bit here, but maybe not.

    $16 exacta: 6/9,12

    $8 exacta: 6/1,4,11

    $4 exacta: 6/2,3

    $3 tri: 6/1,2,3,4,9,11,12/1,2,3,4,7,9,11,12

     

    GL TO ALL!

     

    Reply

    #12 Malagacy…..Many called for Horse of the Year honors (OK. I exaggerated a bit) after his win in the Rebel, his first graded stakes race. That was against a bit lesser. If you believe Sonnetter and Untrapped are the goods after finishing second and third to Melagacy, then maybe you got something here in a winner. The 12 hole isn’t doing the Shakleford colt any favors, but he started the Rebel in 11th place and bolted to second in a flash, then finishing strong at the end. The boy is 3 for 3 lifetime winning by a combined 24 lengths hitting Beyer’s of 89, 97 and 91 (Rebel). At 2-1 ML, Castellano has work to do with 3 or 4 getting out quickly. This is one of Todd’s better Derby hopes and I see no reason he cannot win today. Pletcher has four wins I the Ark. Derby with JJ vying for his first.

     

    My picks: Wow……so many variables. Classic Empire, Malagacy and which way do they go?

     

    #6 Lookin at Lee to win and place…..I think this race is begging for a closer in a Triple Crown season where closers have been sketchy. I might be stretching it a bit here, but maybe not.

    $16 exacta: 6/9,12

    $8 exacta: 6/1,4,11

    $4 exacta: 6/2,3

    $3 tri: 6/1,2,3,4,9,11,12/1,2,3,4,7,9,11,12

     

    GL TO ALL!

     

     
    vetdrm
    vetdrm
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 12:13 PM ET #5

    uncanny
    Reply
    uncanny
     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 12:52 PM ET #6

    Vet....what is uncanny is that yesterday I left my job and now you'll get me EVERYDAY on Covers!
    Reply
    Vet....what is uncanny is that yesterday I left my job and now you'll get me EVERYDAY on Covers!
     
    Midnight1
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 12:59 PM ET #7

    Here's my abbreviated capping view:

    #1 Moves back to dirt & stretching out
    #2 Super talented head case. Sometimes he'll be fine during a workout & other days he refuses. Big crowd, noise & excitement is not good for a head case.
    #3 5th to the 12 in his last
    #4 Likes to run 2nd
    #5 Just broke his maiden
    #6 Big time closer but can't trust Contreras in the irons
    #7 0-9; enough said
    #8 Last 4 were dull
    #9 Love Mikey Smith getting on-board; 2nd to #12 in last
    #10 0-6
    #11 I think this one may cash a check here
    #12 Was on this one in his last & will ride him again

    EX & TRI Box 3-9-11-12; Ex 12 with 3-9-11; Tri key 12/3-9-11.

    BOL to all... 
    Reply
    Here's my abbreviated capping view:

    #1 Moves back to dirt & stretching out
    #2 Super talented head case. Sometimes he'll be fine during a workout & other days he refuses. Big crowd, noise & excitement is not good for a head case.
    #3 5th to the 12 in his last
    #4 Likes to run 2nd
    #5 Just broke his maiden
    #6 Big time closer but can't trust Contreras in the irons
    #7 0-9; enough said
    #8 Last 4 were dull
    #9 Love Mikey Smith getting on-board; 2nd to #12 in last
    #10 0-6
    #11 I think this one may cash a check here
    #12 Was on this one in his last & will ride him again

    EX & TRI Box 3-9-11-12; Ex 12 with 3-9-11; Tri key 12/3-9-11.

    BOL to all... 
     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posts: 13204
    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 7:17 PM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1:

    Here's my abbreviated capping view:

    #1 Moves back to dirt & stretching out
    #2 Super talented head case. Sometimes he'll be fine during a workout & other days he refuses. Big crowd, noise & excitement is not good for a head case.
    #3 5th to the 12 in his last
    #4 Likes to run 2nd
    #5 Just broke his maiden
    #6 Big time closer but can't trust Contreras in the irons
    #7 0-9; enough said
    #8 Last 4 were dull
    #9 Love Mikey Smith getting on-board; 2nd to #12 in last
    #10 0-6
    #11 I think this one may cash a check here
    #12 Was on this one in his last & will ride him again

    EX & TRI Box 3-9-11-12; Ex 12 with 3-9-11; Tri key 12/3-9-11.

    BOL to all... 


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1:

    Here's my abbreviated capping view:

    #1 Moves back to dirt & stretching out
    #2 Super talented head case. Sometimes he'll be fine during a workout & other days he refuses. Big crowd, noise & excitement is not good for a head case.
    #3 5th to the 12 in his last
    #4 Likes to run 2nd
    #5 Just broke his maiden
    #6 Big time closer but can't trust Contreras in the irons
    #7 0-9; enough said
    #8 Last 4 were dull
    #9 Love Mikey Smith getting on-board; 2nd to #12 in last
    #10 0-6
    #11 I think this one may cash a check here
    #12 Was on this one in his last & will ride him again

    EX & TRI Box 3-9-11-12; Ex 12 with 3-9-11; Tri key 12/3-9-11.

    BOL to all... 


     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posts: 13204
    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 7:33 PM ET #9

    Circle Classic Empire....great ride by Leparoux!


    2-11-6-12-7

    Reply

    Circle Classic Empire....great ride by Leparoux!


    2-11-6-12-7

     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 7:34 PM ET #10

    Wait a minute.....INQUIRY
    Reply
    Wait a minute.....INQUIRY
     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 7:38 PM ET #11

    FINAL 2-11-6-7 . Inquiry denied
    Reply
    FINAL 2-11-6-7 . Inquiry denied
     
    vetdrm
    vetdrm
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 8:14 PM ET #12

    well.... 6 came in 3rd   $5.40
    How many times did he change leads?
    Had a nice opening.  All over the place.

    Doesnt seem like 3rd will be good enough to get him in.
    To bad....closed nicely
    Reply
    well.... 6 came in 3rd   $5.40
    How many times did he change leads?
    Had a nice opening.  All over the place.

    Doesnt seem like 3rd will be good enough to get him in.
    To bad....closed nicely
     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posts: 13204
    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 8:17 PM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by vetdrm:

    well.... 6 came in 3rd   $5.40
    How many times did he change leads?
    Had a nice opening.  All over the place.

    Doesnt seem like 3rd will be good enough to get him in.
    To bad....closed nicely


    Yes, Vet......To me, the Derby is wide open!

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vetdrm:

    well.... 6 came in 3rd   $5.40
    How many times did he change leads?
    Had a nice opening.  All over the place.

    Doesnt seem like 3rd will be good enough to get him in.
    To bad....closed nicely


    Yes, Vet......To me, the Derby is wide open!

     
    Tygermyke
    Tygermyke
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    Posts: 740
    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 8:18 PM ET #14

    Damn, Mikey (and Vet), I think he ran two miles.  No chance to get in?  I would definitely have him in my exotics.  Where can I get your blog, Mikey?  Looking forward to it.
    Reply
    Damn, Mikey (and Vet), I think he ran two miles.  No chance to get in?  I would definitely have him in my exotics.  Where can I get your blog, Mikey?  Looking forward to it.
     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posts: 13204
    Posted: Apr. 15, 2017 - 10:34 PM ET #15

    Hey Myke....hope all is well. I think he ran wo miles as well. The horse hasn't had a good ride in months!


     I am working on it now, but in the meantime, will step up my posts on Covers.]


    Take care my friend!

    Reply

    Hey Myke....hope all is well. I think he ran wo miles as well. The horse hasn't had a good ride in months!


     I am working on it now, but in the meantime, will step up my posts on Covers.]


    Take care my friend!

     
    pittsburghphil
    pittsburghphil
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    Posts: 5658
    Posted: Apr. 16, 2017 - 9:33 AM ET #16

    nice  as usual  mike...  couldnt be  here very long sat..  vetrdm,mids,tiger,rob,h...jr..  good to see  guys coming out for derby madness..   ark  derby  got us another public  type horse, 2 yr old champ..  classic empire..  i didnt have him..  hey mike  looked as though  malagacy  was in distress  at the end...  unless i was  seeing things..  have a good  holiday  guys   
    Reply
    nice  as usual  mike...  couldnt be  here very long sat..  vetrdm,mids,tiger,rob,h...jr..  good to see  guys coming out for derby madness..   ark  derby  got us another public  type horse, 2 yr old champ..  classic empire..  i didnt have him..  hey mike  looked as though  malagacy  was in distress  at the end...  unless i was  seeing things..  have a good  holiday  guys   
     
    Tygermyke
    Tygermyke
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    Posts: 740
    Posted: Apr. 16, 2017 - 1:40 PM ET #17

    Hey, Phil-thanks for holding down the fort while I was trying to figure out the madness that is Evangeline Downs.  I promise to be more visual if I don't get lost in LSU baseball tailgating.


    Reply

    Hey, Phil-thanks for holding down the fort while I was trying to figure out the madness that is Evangeline Downs.  I promise to be more visual if I don't get lost in LSU baseball tailgating.


     
     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posts: 13204
    Posted: Apr. 17, 2017 - 8:49 AM ET #18

    Philly and Tyger.....lots of speculation in the next few weeks. I need to take another look at the ARK Derby, but it looks to me like Classic Empire can close well  and that the race was a real tightener for him.

    TYG....my youngest is at MIZZOU, so we've been part of SEC nation for the past 8 months.

    Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts as we head toward May 6

    Reply

    Philly and Tyger.....lots of speculation in the next few weeks. I need to take another look at the ARK Derby, but it looks to me like Classic Empire can close well  and that the race was a real tightener for him.

    TYG....my youngest is at MIZZOU, so we've been part of SEC nation for the past 8 months.

    Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts as we head toward May 6

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