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    All Forums | Investments

    Extra Mortgate Payment or Invest

    HutchEmAll
    wallstreetcappers
    KOAJ
    itsbadlands
    bucknuts
    ...
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    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Oct. 1, 2008 - 1:38 PM ET #1

    I've been sitting on a decent chunk of money for a lot of the year waiting for the right time to invest (I have a Roth IRA, Regular IRA, Simple IRA through work (weekly contributions made, but this is all in cash right now), regular investment account, annuity, money market account, and savings account).  The chunk of money I would be investing would be going into my general investment account. 

    Do you think it would be advantagous to make an extra house payment (pay the principle down) and invest a bit less or should I just invest the full amount when the time is right?
     
    FYI, we have about $75K-$100K equity in our home so it's not like we're in any danger.  I'd still like to pay the house down when possible because I have ZERO confidence in the market right now (and an extra payment over 15 years will have a huge affect on how quickly we pay it off).  We bought at the worst possible time and I feel fortunate that things aren't worse then they are.  I still like the thought of paying off as much of the house as I can as soon as I can (without ignoring investment opportunities).
     
    Overall, the majority of my assets are in cash or money market type accounts (including all of my business earnings for the last 10 years).  My IRA's, Annuity, and general investment account are obviously not in cash.
     
    In addition to this chunk of money I'm looking to invest, I'll be looking to invest another chunk at the end of the year.  I'm just getting cold feet.
     
    So what do you say?  Make another payment on the house (paying down the principle) or shove as much in the market as I can as soon as I can (once things get a little more stable)?
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    I've been sitting on a decent chunk of money for a lot of the year waiting for the right time to invest (I have a Roth IRA, Regular IRA, Simple IRA through work (weekly contributions made, but this is all in cash right now), regular investment account, annuity, money market account, and savings account).  The chunk of money I would be investing would be going into my general investment account. 

    Do you think it would be advantagous to make an extra house payment (pay the principle down) and invest a bit less or should I just invest the full amount when the time is right?
     
    FYI, we have about $75K-$100K equity in our home so it's not like we're in any danger.  I'd still like to pay the house down when possible because I have ZERO confidence in the market right now (and an extra payment over 15 years will have a huge affect on how quickly we pay it off).  We bought at the worst possible time and I feel fortunate that things aren't worse then they are.  I still like the thought of paying off as much of the house as I can as soon as I can (without ignoring investment opportunities).
     
    Overall, the majority of my assets are in cash or money market type accounts (including all of my business earnings for the last 10 years).  My IRA's, Annuity, and general investment account are obviously not in cash.
     
    In addition to this chunk of money I'm looking to invest, I'll be looking to invest another chunk at the end of the year.  I'm just getting cold feet.
     
    So what do you say?  Make another payment on the house (paying down the principle) or shove as much in the market as I can as soon as I can (once things get a little more stable)?
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Oct. 1, 2008 - 2:06 PM ET #2

    Hutch,

    How long are you really going to live in the house?

    This is how I think about it..

    2000  bucks, what rate of return on the 2000 bucks.

    House payment at 6%, paying principal will return you 6% minus taxable benefit..if you are in the 20% bracket then you minus out that which drops the real rate to 4.8 percent, if you get a state tax write off of federal deductions then include that as well.

    So say it knocks you down to 4.5% or so, can you beat that 4.5% return in the market?

    If you can then there is the answer in my mind.
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    Hutch,

    How long are you really going to live in the house?

    This is how I think about it..

    2000  bucks, what rate of return on the 2000 bucks.

    House payment at 6%, paying principal will return you 6% minus taxable benefit..if you are in the 20% bracket then you minus out that which drops the real rate to 4.8 percent, if you get a state tax write off of federal deductions then include that as well.

    So say it knocks you down to 4.5% or so, can you beat that 4.5% return in the market?

    If you can then there is the answer in my mind.
     
    KOAJ
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Oct. 1, 2008 - 4:11 PM ET #3

    wall is right...all about anticipated rate of return

    -cash v market v house

    is your house losing value? if so, then why pay more into a depreciating asset

    whats your tax status? do you need the deductions from the mortgage payments?

    fwiw - i make an extra mortgage payment a year...takes a 30 down to a 22 (rough calculations). i also send an extra $50 here, $100 there...nickels and dimes but interest isnt accruing over the next 20 years. thats on top of everything else.
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    wall is right...all about anticipated rate of return

    -cash v market v house

    is your house losing value? if so, then why pay more into a depreciating asset

    whats your tax status? do you need the deductions from the mortgage payments?

    fwiw - i make an extra mortgage payment a year...takes a 30 down to a 22 (rough calculations). i also send an extra $50 here, $100 there...nickels and dimes but interest isnt accruing over the next 20 years. thats on top of everything else.
     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 2:20 PM ET #4

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Hutch,

    How long are you really going to live in the house?

    This is how I think about it..

    2000  bucks, what rate of return on the 2000 bucks.

    House payment at 6%, paying principal will return you 6% minus taxable benefit..if you are in the 20% bracket then you minus out that which drops the real rate to 4.8 percent, if you get a state tax write off of federal deductions then include that as well.

    So say it knocks you down to 4.5% or so, can you beat that 4.5% return in the market?

    If you can then there is the answer in my mind.
    very sound and logical advice-makes 100% sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Hutch,

    How long are you really going to live in the house?

    This is how I think about it..

    2000  bucks, what rate of return on the 2000 bucks.

    House payment at 6%, paying principal will return you 6% minus taxable benefit..if you are in the 20% bracket then you minus out that which drops the real rate to 4.8 percent, if you get a state tax write off of federal deductions then include that as well.

    So say it knocks you down to 4.5% or so, can you beat that 4.5% return in the market?

    If you can then there is the answer in my mind.
    very sound and logical advice-makes 100% sense
     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 2:25 PM ET #5

    fwiw - i make an extra mortgage payment a year...takes a 30 down to a 22 (rough calculations). i also send an extra $50 here, $100 there...nickels and dimes but interest isnt accruing over the next 20 years. thats on top of everything else.(from Koaj) I was taught this as well from a very wise and profitable man whom I respect very much.It doesnt sound like much but it makes a huge difference in the long run but only if you plan on staying in that house.one other thing he always says is to make other peoples money work for you or to use other peoples money and never your own.that can be applied in a million different ways but it makes sense if you apply it whenever possible.
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    fwiw - i make an extra mortgage payment a year...takes a 30 down to a 22 (rough calculations). i also send an extra $50 here, $100 there...nickels and dimes but interest isnt accruing over the next 20 years. thats on top of everything else.(from Koaj) I was taught this as well from a very wise and profitable man whom I respect very much.It doesnt sound like much but it makes a huge difference in the long run but only if you plan on staying in that house.one other thing he always says is to make other peoples money work for you or to use other peoples money and never your own.that can be applied in a million different ways but it makes sense if you apply it whenever possible.
     
    bucknuts
    bucknuts
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    Posted: Oct. 3, 2008 - 4:29 AM ET #6

    i think one extra payment per year cuts 7 yrs off......look into forex trading you can open up mini account to practice......a long term investment in currency is like 3 months and you can double your $$$$$
     
    EUR/USD today is at 1.3800 in 4 weeks it will be in the mid 1.4000s every 100 pips is a double up[from 1.3800 to 1.3900 100 pips]
     
    MARK MY WORDS.......will bump this thread Nov 2nd with EUR/USD price
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    i think one extra payment per year cuts 7 yrs off......look into forex trading you can open up mini account to practice......a long term investment in currency is like 3 months and you can double your $$$$$
     
    EUR/USD today is at 1.3800 in 4 weeks it will be in the mid 1.4000s every 100 pips is a double up[from 1.3800 to 1.3900 100 pips]
     
    MARK MY WORDS.......will bump this thread Nov 2nd with EUR/USD price
     
    depeche2
    depeche2
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    Posted: Oct. 6, 2008 - 9:46 AM ET #7

    1. What's your mortgage interest rate?
    2. How long do you plan to live there?
    3. How long will you be able to use the tax deduction?

    My inclination is to keep the cash, esp if your rate is low which I assume it is.
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    1. What's your mortgage interest rate?
    2. How long do you plan to live there?
    3. How long will you be able to use the tax deduction?

    My inclination is to keep the cash, esp if your rate is low which I assume it is.
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Oct. 6, 2008 - 6:29 PM ET #8

    Sorry, but I forgot about this thread.  I appreciate the responses.  Here are the answers to the general questions:
     
    I'd say our house is worth more then we bought it for 4+ years ago, but less then it was a year and a half ago.  I certainly don't anticipate any appreciation in the immediate future.  We do liave a terrific neighborhood and the most of the places around us are more expensive (which doesn't hurt). 
     
    As for time living there, it sort of depends on the market.  We've thought about moving, but there is no way we want to buy high and sell low just to move.  I would say we'll stay a handful of years (5) at least and then it will depend on the market. 
     
    Our interest rate is 5.875.
     
    You'd think I could make 5-6% just throwing a dart at a board, but that hasn't even been happening. 
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    Sorry, but I forgot about this thread.  I appreciate the responses.  Here are the answers to the general questions:
     
    I'd say our house is worth more then we bought it for 4+ years ago, but less then it was a year and a half ago.  I certainly don't anticipate any appreciation in the immediate future.  We do liave a terrific neighborhood and the most of the places around us are more expensive (which doesn't hurt). 
     
    As for time living there, it sort of depends on the market.  We've thought about moving, but there is no way we want to buy high and sell low just to move.  I would say we'll stay a handful of years (5) at least and then it will depend on the market. 
     
    Our interest rate is 5.875.
     
    You'd think I could make 5-6% just throwing a dart at a board, but that hasn't even been happening. 
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Oct. 6, 2008 - 6:34 PM ET #9

    KOAJ-
     
    Just an interesting story for you.  My brother is 6 years older then me.  He bought land and built a house 13 years ago about 40 minutes from the cities.  Bought for like $175K.  He finished it himself, did all the landscaping, put a pole barn on it, and paid it down when he could (so he did invest a decent amount into it as well).  He sold it about a year and a half ago for almost $500K.  He has a comparable house in KC with a $9,000 mortgage.
     
    He made more money then I for most of his career, but I made more money then he did the last two years.
     
    It just blows me away how important timing is. 
     
     
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    KOAJ-
     
    Just an interesting story for you.  My brother is 6 years older then me.  He bought land and built a house 13 years ago about 40 minutes from the cities.  Bought for like $175K.  He finished it himself, did all the landscaping, put a pole barn on it, and paid it down when he could (so he did invest a decent amount into it as well).  He sold it about a year and a half ago for almost $500K.  He has a comparable house in KC with a $9,000 mortgage.
     
    He made more money then I for most of his career, but I made more money then he did the last two years.
     
    It just blows me away how important timing is. 
     
     
     
    Supply_N_Demand
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    Posted: Oct. 9, 2008 - 12:02 AM ET #10

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    KOAJ-
     
    Just an interesting story for you.  My brother is 6 years older then me.  He bought land and built a house 13 years ago about 40 minutes from the cities.  Bought for like $175K.  He finished it himself, did all the landscaping, put a pole barn on it, and paid it down when he could (so he did invest a decent amount into it as well).  He sold it about a year and a half ago for almost $500K.  He has a comparable house in KC with a $9,000 mortgage.
     
    He made more money then I for most of his career, but I made more money then he did the last two years.
     
    It just blows me away how important timing is. 
     
     

    I couldnt have said it better myself Hutch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    KOAJ-
     
    Just an interesting story for you.  My brother is 6 years older then me.  He bought land and built a house 13 years ago about 40 minutes from the cities.  Bought for like $175K.  He finished it himself, did all the landscaping, put a pole barn on it, and paid it down when he could (so he did invest a decent amount into it as well).  He sold it about a year and a half ago for almost $500K.  He has a comparable house in KC with a $9,000 mortgage.
     
    He made more money then I for most of his career, but I made more money then he did the last two years.
     
    It just blows me away how important timing is. 
     
     

    I couldnt have said it better myself Hutch.

     
     
    ChanceP
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    Posted: Oct. 10, 2008 - 9:14 PM ET #11

    Just don"t fold KK, whatever you decide
     
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    Just don"t fold KK, whatever you decide
     
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