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    All Forums | Investments

    Need help w/ a math calcution re: RSI.........

    cetic33
    wallstreetcappers
    krafcikrr
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    cetic33
    cetic33
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    Posted: Feb. 10, 2008 - 6:49 PM ET #1

    Have found the formula that calculates thiS, but not hving a strong math background , I am having trouble w/ the formula. Was hoping someone w/ a strong math background could explain this , as knowing this number before markets open , would really help in trading options (or stocks) .

    Description

    The Relative Strength Index (also known as RSI) is a momentum indicator that was developed by J. Welles Wilder in 1978. It is calculated using the price, and is used as an oscillator showing overbought and oversold levels. The RSI compares the upward price movement to downward price movement over the specified timeframe, and displays the result as a momentum line oscillating between 0 and 100. The RSI is displayed on its own chart, separate from the price bars, and is the lower section in the chart shown above.
    Calculation
    • Description : The RSI is the ratio of exponential moving averages of the upward (U) and downward (D) price movements, normalized into a value between 0 and 100.
    • Calculation :
      U = Pn - Pn-1
      D = Pn - Pn-1
      EMAUP = EMAUn-1 + ((2 / (n + 1)) * (Un - EMAUn-1))
      EMADOWN = EMADn-1 + ((2 / (n + 1)) * (Dn - EMADn-1))

      RSI = 100 X (EMAUP / (EMAUP + EMADOWN))
    Trading Use

    The RSI can be used in both ranging and trending markets, and therefore can be used in several different ways. The RSI can be used to identify an overbought level when it is above 70, and an oversold level when it is below 30. The RSI can also be used as a divergence indicator, with entries based upon divergence bbetween the RSI and the price bar.

    Any help here would be greatly appreciated !!!
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    Have found the formula that calculates thiS, but not hving a strong math background , I am having trouble w/ the formula. Was hoping someone w/ a strong math background could explain this , as knowing this number before markets open , would really help in trading options (or stocks) .

    Description

    The Relative Strength Index (also known as RSI) is a momentum indicator that was developed by J. Welles Wilder in 1978. It is calculated using the price, and is used as an oscillator showing overbought and oversold levels. The RSI compares the upward price movement to downward price movement over the specified timeframe, and displays the result as a momentum line oscillating between 0 and 100. The RSI is displayed on its own chart, separate from the price bars, and is the lower section in the chart shown above.
    Calculation
    • Description : The RSI is the ratio of exponential moving averages of the upward (U) and downward (D) price movements, normalized into a value between 0 and 100.
    • Calculation :
      U = Pn - Pn-1
      D = Pn - Pn-1
      EMAUP = EMAUn-1 + ((2 / (n + 1)) * (Un - EMAUn-1))
      EMADOWN = EMADn-1 + ((2 / (n + 1)) * (Dn - EMADn-1))

      RSI = 100 X (EMAUP / (EMAUP + EMADOWN))
    Trading Use

    The RSI can be used in both ranging and trending markets, and therefore can be used in several different ways. The RSI can be used to identify an overbought level when it is above 70, and an oversold level when it is below 30. The RSI can also be used as a divergence indicator, with entries based upon divergence bbetween the RSI and the price bar.

    Any help here would be greatly appreciated !!!
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posts: 58407
    Posted: Feb. 10, 2008 - 7:05 PM ET #2

    Just out of curiousity, why are you wanting to know how to calculate it? Is this for a math course or somthing?

    RSI is merely a reflection of past trading action on a stock and is interesting to observe but the real application of it is severely limited because the equation is merely if the stock closed higher or lower versus knowing the money flow and any reasoning behind the stock going up or down (meaning the markets decline or rise vs the actual stock itself).

    I watch RSI but I dont trade off it exclusively by any means.
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    Just out of curiousity, why are you wanting to know how to calculate it? Is this for a math course or somthing?

    RSI is merely a reflection of past trading action on a stock and is interesting to observe but the real application of it is severely limited because the equation is merely if the stock closed higher or lower versus knowing the money flow and any reasoning behind the stock going up or down (meaning the markets decline or rise vs the actual stock itself).

    I watch RSI but I dont trade off it exclusively by any means.
     
    cetic33
    cetic33
    Prospect
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    Joined: Feb, 2008
    Posts: 31
    Posted: Feb. 10, 2008 - 7:57 PM ET #3

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Just out of curiousity, why are you wanting to know how to calculate it? Is this for a math course or somthing?

    RSI is merely a reflection of past trading action on a stock and is interesting to observe but the real application of it is severely limited because the equation is merely if the stock closed higher or lower versus knowing the money flow and any reasoning behind the stock going up or down (meaning the markets decline or rise vs the actual stock itself).

    I watch RSI but I dont trade off it exclusively by any means.

     

    .........no , it's not for classroom application, I use it in tandem w/ daily moves in the cash market to short the S&P index during bear markets. Considering we are probably on the verge of the greatest bear in history , I wanted to know HOW it is derived . I know how I use it , but am looking to see if , by finding out how it is actually calculated,  it can be useful in predicitng RSI tops/bottoms ahead of the market, as opposed to behind it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Just out of curiousity, why are you wanting to know how to calculate it? Is this for a math course or somthing?

    RSI is merely a reflection of past trading action on a stock and is interesting to observe but the real application of it is severely limited because the equation is merely if the stock closed higher or lower versus knowing the money flow and any reasoning behind the stock going up or down (meaning the markets decline or rise vs the actual stock itself).

    I watch RSI but I dont trade off it exclusively by any means.

     

    .........no , it's not for classroom application, I use it in tandem w/ daily moves in the cash market to short the S&P index during bear markets. Considering we are probably on the verge of the greatest bear in history , I wanted to know HOW it is derived . I know how I use it , but am looking to see if , by finding out how it is actually calculated,  it can be useful in predicitng RSI tops/bottoms ahead of the market, as opposed to behind it.

     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Feb. 10, 2008 - 8:07 PM ET #4

    The problem with what you are wanting is RSI reflects what the market is doing and DID, so you cannot properly forecast where RSI is going due to the fact it can and will change based on the market itself.

    Here is an example..

    RSI on the SPX is at 50 right now. If you overlay the SPX with the RSI you will see very similar results, outside small differences, if the market is going lower, so is the SPX and when the market goes up, so does RSI.

    Here is a good explanation for you-

    LINK

    Read through the whole thing..all RSI is basically is a function of averaging the market going up and down over a 14 day period, because that SMOOTHS out the calculation and makes it more reliable versus a shorter time frame.

    In my view RSI cannot be traded off, nor can it be forecasted. I have seen RSI stay below 30 and above 90 for EXTENDED periods of time..enough that you would be screwed trying to trade off it, I have also seen the RSI whipsaw back and forth and back and forth right near the extreme points.

    I once discussed another theory concerning moneyflow and divergence that calculated REAL moneyflow, and you can buy such a service..THAT has value.

    Using technical indicators which really only are a function of what the market has DONE, are just nice tools..nothing more and on their own are not sufficient enough to trade off, unless you are using ultra tight stops and have like 10 indicators to use.


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    The problem with what you are wanting is RSI reflects what the market is doing and DID, so you cannot properly forecast where RSI is going due to the fact it can and will change based on the market itself.

    Here is an example..

    RSI on the SPX is at 50 right now. If you overlay the SPX with the RSI you will see very similar results, outside small differences, if the market is going lower, so is the SPX and when the market goes up, so does RSI.

    Here is a good explanation for you-

    LINK

    Read through the whole thing..all RSI is basically is a function of averaging the market going up and down over a 14 day period, because that SMOOTHS out the calculation and makes it more reliable versus a shorter time frame.

    In my view RSI cannot be traded off, nor can it be forecasted. I have seen RSI stay below 30 and above 90 for EXTENDED periods of time..enough that you would be screwed trying to trade off it, I have also seen the RSI whipsaw back and forth and back and forth right near the extreme points.

    I once discussed another theory concerning moneyflow and divergence that calculated REAL moneyflow, and you can buy such a service..THAT has value.

    Using technical indicators which really only are a function of what the market has DONE, are just nice tools..nothing more and on their own are not sufficient enough to trade off, unless you are using ultra tight stops and have like 10 indicators to use.


     
    cetic33
    cetic33
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2008
    Posts: 31
    Posted: Feb. 10, 2008 - 8:15 PM ET #5

    I once discussed another theory concerning moneyflow and divergence that calculated REAL moneyflow, and you can buy such a service..THAT has value.
     
    This is EXACTLY how I am currently using it. I don't trade off it per se , rather I use it as a tool , in conjunction w/ the cash market moves, to identify false intra day rallies and double tops/bottoms that are NOT confirmed by the RSI. It has proven succesfull over the last few years , and was just looking for some deeper understanding of how it is derived . Thanks for the link, som einteresting info there !!
    Reply
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    I once discussed another theory concerning moneyflow and divergence that calculated REAL moneyflow, and you can buy such a service..THAT has value.
     
    This is EXACTLY how I am currently using it. I don't trade off it per se , rather I use it as a tool , in conjunction w/ the cash market moves, to identify false intra day rallies and double tops/bottoms that are NOT confirmed by the RSI. It has proven succesfull over the last few years , and was just looking for some deeper understanding of how it is derived . Thanks for the link, som einteresting info there !!
     
    krafcikrr
    krafcikrr
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    Joined: Mar, 2006
    Posts: 597
    Posted: Feb. 12, 2008 - 9:08 AM ET #6

    cetic33,
     
    check out stockcharts.com
     
    You can look at the RSI on almost any security or index. I second Wallstreets advice that you should not trade based on RSI. If anything, maybe use it to determine a good entry point for putting new capital into the market.
     
    Extremely oversold conditions can persist for a long time (as wallstreet mentioned) but if you put capital in when the market is extremely oversold, you will be ahead in the long run.
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    cetic33,
     
    check out stockcharts.com
     
    You can look at the RSI on almost any security or index. I second Wallstreets advice that you should not trade based on RSI. If anything, maybe use it to determine a good entry point for putting new capital into the market.
     
    Extremely oversold conditions can persist for a long time (as wallstreet mentioned) but if you put capital in when the market is extremely oversold, you will be ahead in the long run.
     
    krafcikrr
    krafcikrr
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    Joined: Mar, 2006
    Posts: 597
    Posted: Feb. 12, 2008 - 9:33 AM ET #7

    maybe I should click on a link before I respond!!
     
    wallstreet already sent you to stockcharts.com. good recommendation by him, sorry for the repitition
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    maybe I should click on a link before I respond!!
     
    wallstreet already sent you to stockcharts.com. good recommendation by him, sorry for the repitition
     
     
    cetic33
    cetic33
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    Joined: Feb, 2008
    Posts: 31
    Posted: Feb. 12, 2008 - 11:07 AM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by krafcikrr:

    maybe I should click on a link before I respond!!
     
    wallstreet already sent you to stockcharts.com. good recommendation by him, sorry for the repitition

    np........thanks for the input guys !!! Have had
    ........thanks for the input guys !!! Have had STOCKCHARTS bookmarked for a while , as well as ............https://www.cboe.com/Strategies/IndexOptions/BuyingIndexPuts/Part1.aspx.
     
    One of the shops I am currently using right now is offering naked options, so am trying to learn the nuances of that trading strategy. RSI is helpful, for my intraday moves , and identifying entry/exit points. Am currently trading monthly PUTS , but am considering parking money in an ETF (SDS) while in between contracts, and down the raod some , am also considering LEAPS as a good way to fade the S&P as a whole. Any thoughts some of you more seasoned tradrs might have would be greatly apprecited !!
     
     
     
     

     

     

    Reply
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    Quote Originally Posted by krafcikrr:

    maybe I should click on a link before I respond!!
     
    wallstreet already sent you to stockcharts.com. good recommendation by him, sorry for the repitition

    np........thanks for the input guys !!! Have had
    ........thanks for the input guys !!! Have had STOCKCHARTS bookmarked for a while , as well as ............https://www.cboe.com/Strategies/IndexOptions/BuyingIndexPuts/Part1.aspx.
     
    One of the shops I am currently using right now is offering naked options, so am trying to learn the nuances of that trading strategy. RSI is helpful, for my intraday moves , and identifying entry/exit points. Am currently trading monthly PUTS , but am considering parking money in an ETF (SDS) while in between contracts, and down the raod some , am also considering LEAPS as a good way to fade the S&P as a whole. Any thoughts some of you more seasoned tradrs might have would be greatly apprecited !!
     
     
     
     

     

     

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