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    All Forums | Investments

    Refinancing Question

    Wake2002
    asloper6001
    jthollywood
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    Wake2002
    Wake2002
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    Posted: Jan. 23, 2008 - 9:31 PM ET #1

    I figured I'd throw this out to anyone who might be more knowledgable than I am.  I know absolutely nothing about mortgage rates and what drives them.  I am in the process of re-financing.  This is my current situation:
     
    I have a 30 year fixed at 6.125%
     
    My options are to re-finance in a 15 year fixed at 4.5% (0.5 point credit towards origination fee)
     
    OR
     
    Refinance in a 30 year fixed at 5.0% no credit.
     
    I can afford to make the payments on the 15-year mortgage, but would obviously not have as much money to invest otherwise.
     
    I ran an analysis and based on my rough calculation, my break-even point if I was to go with the 30 year, after 15 years would be about a 7% return. 
     
    Basically, what I am wondering is, do you guys think mortgage rates will continue to drop?  I'm only 28, so I don't know all of this, but could it really drop below 4.50%?  Also, over time, do you think the 30 year fixed would drift closer to the 15 year rates, or will there always be that 50 point spread between the two?  I would be happy locking in my guaranteed 7% return on this money as I am already invested through my Roth and 401K.  However, if this spread was to decrease, and I could get a 30 year at about 4.75% somewhere down the road, I think it would knock my break-even point closer to 5.7%, and I would go with the 30 year.
     
    One final question.  I am doing this through Wachovia.  I think they are charging me out of the a$$ in closing costs, but I was hoping someone could help me out with this.  On approximately a $300K loan, they are charging me about $5k in closing costs.  Is that too high?  How do I go about negotiating and getting them to get rid of the "document preparation fee" and the "settlement fee" etc.?
     
    Thanks in advance for any help you all could give me. 
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    I figured I'd throw this out to anyone who might be more knowledgable than I am.  I know absolutely nothing about mortgage rates and what drives them.  I am in the process of re-financing.  This is my current situation:
     
    I have a 30 year fixed at 6.125%
     
    My options are to re-finance in a 15 year fixed at 4.5% (0.5 point credit towards origination fee)
     
    OR
     
    Refinance in a 30 year fixed at 5.0% no credit.
     
    I can afford to make the payments on the 15-year mortgage, but would obviously not have as much money to invest otherwise.
     
    I ran an analysis and based on my rough calculation, my break-even point if I was to go with the 30 year, after 15 years would be about a 7% return. 
     
    Basically, what I am wondering is, do you guys think mortgage rates will continue to drop?  I'm only 28, so I don't know all of this, but could it really drop below 4.50%?  Also, over time, do you think the 30 year fixed would drift closer to the 15 year rates, or will there always be that 50 point spread between the two?  I would be happy locking in my guaranteed 7% return on this money as I am already invested through my Roth and 401K.  However, if this spread was to decrease, and I could get a 30 year at about 4.75% somewhere down the road, I think it would knock my break-even point closer to 5.7%, and I would go with the 30 year.
     
    One final question.  I am doing this through Wachovia.  I think they are charging me out of the a$$ in closing costs, but I was hoping someone could help me out with this.  On approximately a $300K loan, they are charging me about $5k in closing costs.  Is that too high?  How do I go about negotiating and getting them to get rid of the "document preparation fee" and the "settlement fee" etc.?
     
    Thanks in advance for any help you all could give me. 
     
    asloper6001
    asloper6001
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    Posted: Jan. 23, 2008 - 10:18 PM ET #2

    Don't really see 30 Yr Fixed rates going to 4.5% or below, unless you pay for it, with a couple of points. I also didn't expect them going to 4.875% today though either.

    Sometimes the 30 yr comes close to the 15 yr, but most of the time like you said they keep their distance away from each other, but not by much. 15 yr are always a little cheaper of course, because your payment doubles most of the time.

    On the closing costs, is 5k including all title company fees or just lender fees. If covering everything, 5k is not that bad. If 5k is just for lending fees though, its not that great of a deal.

    Take the 30 yr note and sign up with the money merge account concept and you can cut your yrs in half almost. Or just take the 15 yr note if you can make the payments and still live comfortably.

    Hope this helps.


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    Don't really see 30 Yr Fixed rates going to 4.5% or below, unless you pay for it, with a couple of points. I also didn't expect them going to 4.875% today though either.

    Sometimes the 30 yr comes close to the 15 yr, but most of the time like you said they keep their distance away from each other, but not by much. 15 yr are always a little cheaper of course, because your payment doubles most of the time.

    On the closing costs, is 5k including all title company fees or just lender fees. If covering everything, 5k is not that bad. If 5k is just for lending fees though, its not that great of a deal.

    Take the 30 yr note and sign up with the money merge account concept and you can cut your yrs in half almost. Or just take the 15 yr note if you can make the payments and still live comfortably.

    Hope this helps.


     
    Wake2002
    Wake2002
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    Joined: Apr, 2007
    Posts: 747
    Posted: Jan. 24, 2008 - 4:23 PM ET #3

    Asloper,
               Thanks for your help.  I think I may have gotten very lucky with this 15 year fixed as I really did lock in yesterday at 4.50% (with a 0.5 point credit against the origination fee) at Wachovia.  I say lucky, because today, I checked their site, and it was back up to 4.875% (paying 0.125 point).  I had considered letting the lock expire and taking my chances that the 30 year rates would drift down, but since it looks like I got a pretty good rate, I am just going to stick with it.
              Thanks for the input on the closing costs.  It does include all title company fees, so I guess its not bad.  It just sounded like a lot to me, but when I actually looked at the good faith estimate sheet, about $2,500 of it went to title insurance.  I think it is a crock that I need to pay for title insurance again, when I just did 9 months ago and I am going with the same lender, but I guess there is no way around that one.  On the bright side, I actually talked to the lender and got them to knock out the appraisal since I had just purchased my house 9 months ago, so I saved myself about $300 on that.
     
             Anyways, thanks again, and good luck with everything.
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    Asloper,
               Thanks for your help.  I think I may have gotten very lucky with this 15 year fixed as I really did lock in yesterday at 4.50% (with a 0.5 point credit against the origination fee) at Wachovia.  I say lucky, because today, I checked their site, and it was back up to 4.875% (paying 0.125 point).  I had considered letting the lock expire and taking my chances that the 30 year rates would drift down, but since it looks like I got a pretty good rate, I am just going to stick with it.
              Thanks for the input on the closing costs.  It does include all title company fees, so I guess its not bad.  It just sounded like a lot to me, but when I actually looked at the good faith estimate sheet, about $2,500 of it went to title insurance.  I think it is a crock that I need to pay for title insurance again, when I just did 9 months ago and I am going with the same lender, but I guess there is no way around that one.  On the bright side, I actually talked to the lender and got them to knock out the appraisal since I had just purchased my house 9 months ago, so I saved myself about $300 on that.
     
             Anyways, thanks again, and good luck with everything.
     
    jthollywood
    jthollywood
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    Posts: 2724
    Posted: Jan. 24, 2008 - 4:50 PM ET #4

    That 15 year fixed is a great deal. Just make sure they send you the good faith estimate ASAP and you can see all the fees......I believe they have to disclose it to you within 3 days, ask aslop, I could be wrong.
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    That 15 year fixed is a great deal. Just make sure they send you the good faith estimate ASAP and you can see all the fees......I believe they have to disclose it to you within 3 days, ask aslop, I could be wrong.
     
     
    asloper6001
    asloper6001
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    Posts: 4998
    Posted: Jan. 24, 2008 - 10:09 PM ET #5

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake2002:

    Asloper,
               Thanks for your help.  I think I may have gotten very lucky with this 15 year fixed as I really did lock in yesterday at 4.50% (with a 0.5 point credit against the origination fee) at Wachovia.  I say lucky, because today, I checked their site, and it was back up to 4.875% (paying 0.125 point).  I had considered letting the lock expire and taking my chances that the 30 year rates would drift down, but since it looks like I got a pretty good rate, I am just going to stick with it.
              Thanks for the input on the closing costs.  It does include all title company fees, so I guess its not bad.  It just sounded like a lot to me, but when I actually looked at the good faith estimate sheet, about $2,500 of it went to title insurance.  I think it is a crock that I need to pay for title insurance again, when I just did 9 months ago and I am going with the same lender, but I guess there is no way around that one.  On the bright side, I actually talked to the lender and got them to knock out the appraisal since I had just purchased my house 9 months ago, so I saved myself about $300 on that.
     
             Anyways, thanks again, and good luck with everything.


    Hey I don't know if it is to late, but you should be able to get a reissue discount on Title insurance. Usually it is about 30% off. Title insurance can save you millions of dollars for only a couple grand. Whoever does not get title insurance is like riding a rollercoster with no arm bar holding you in.

    It is a very good thing you locked in man. The rates tanked today bro. Sign up with money merge account and you can have your house paid off in about 9-10 years. Saves you a boat load of interest  for only a cheap amount for the software. GL


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake2002:

    Asloper,
               Thanks for your help.  I think I may have gotten very lucky with this 15 year fixed as I really did lock in yesterday at 4.50% (with a 0.5 point credit against the origination fee) at Wachovia.  I say lucky, because today, I checked their site, and it was back up to 4.875% (paying 0.125 point).  I had considered letting the lock expire and taking my chances that the 30 year rates would drift down, but since it looks like I got a pretty good rate, I am just going to stick with it.
              Thanks for the input on the closing costs.  It does include all title company fees, so I guess its not bad.  It just sounded like a lot to me, but when I actually looked at the good faith estimate sheet, about $2,500 of it went to title insurance.  I think it is a crock that I need to pay for title insurance again, when I just did 9 months ago and I am going with the same lender, but I guess there is no way around that one.  On the bright side, I actually talked to the lender and got them to knock out the appraisal since I had just purchased my house 9 months ago, so I saved myself about $300 on that.
     
             Anyways, thanks again, and good luck with everything.


    Hey I don't know if it is to late, but you should be able to get a reissue discount on Title insurance. Usually it is about 30% off. Title insurance can save you millions of dollars for only a couple grand. Whoever does not get title insurance is like riding a rollercoster with no arm bar holding you in.

    It is a very good thing you locked in man. The rates tanked today bro. Sign up with money merge account and you can have your house paid off in about 9-10 years. Saves you a boat load of interest  for only a cheap amount for the software. GL


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