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Sports Investing vs Stock Market investing

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Posted: #1
I have my own opinion on positive's and negatives towards both markets.

What do you other people think of sports investing vs stock market investing? Which do you prefer and why? Have you found a specific niche system for one or both of the markets?

I would like to have this thread talk more about investing in both markets, pros and cons.

Thanks and I hope to learn from some knowledgeable investors out there.


 
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Posted: #2
What are your positives and negatives on each market? 

My thought is that in sports, the majority of the people are not investing, they're betting/gambling for the quick 3-hour return b/c they feel they know sports or a certain team or just want action on the game. 

I also think that they are not attempting to keep any type of financial reports looking at their ROI over a week or month, similar to what you can get with the push of a button from etrade, scottrade, or any quality brokerage firm. They also won't keep notes to improve their own performance. Many are simply looking for that day's hot play or plays so they can feed their habit. Win or lose they simply have to have action on a game.  

I think there are similarities in both markets when searching for price value whether it be on a team or in a company. Both markets are driven by public perception and I feel if you can master anticipating what people will think, you can be very successful in both.     


 
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Posted: #3
Saints well put.

Personally I have never been an avid stock investor. I have lost in the market. With sports I have monthly ROI goals which I am focused on, thats the positive for me, for myself and very few sports investors, they are using sports as an investment not a gamble.... I believe systems, discipline and keen money management is neccessary for both but more so for sports investing since like you said its a 3hr turn over.

Lets keep this discussion going
 
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Posted: #4
A numbers of years ago myself and a group of friends developed a few systems for the live interactives on wsex.  We had tremendous success, and eventually developed our own robot to buy and sell our contracts. I see on the web that a company is selling something similar to what we used to use.  In any event, once neteller left the US things were never the same and all of us eventually quit alltogether.
 
Ironically, about a year ago on another sports forum someone got me into futures, particularly the mini S&P.  It amazing that while we didn't know this existed while we were doing the interactives on wsex, we had developed trading platforms, systems, and discipline that are similar to those needed to be successful with the mini-S&P.  I have been trading for the past year and loving it. The best part about the mini S&P is that you can have action 23.5 hours a day, which is awesome, and if you need cash you get it wired to you in the same day.
 
The point of this is that in certain areas trading and sports betting are quite similar.  My wife never liked that fact that I was a professional gambler, but now that I am a professional trader there is a different stigma attached, eventhough in may case they are same. 
 
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Posted: #5
In exchange sports betting Betfair is the bigger name, but unfortunetly for the U.S. investors is illegal by the law, some two and a half years now.
 
I developed a specific system in soccer games with ''do'' and ''don't'' things and it was worked.
 
Now I used matchbook, but only for small bets and only when it is livebet. In other words I'm retired.
 
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Posted: #6
Martin mentioned a very key term which many people don't realize or probably even know what it stands for, ROI. If you truly manage your sports investments, you should be able to hit your ROIs each month as long as they're not overly aggressive and you're not putting a major threat on your overall bankroll. 

Also, I've found that many people are not willing to see their money grow in sports betting similar to how they're 401k, IRA, 403b, etc would grow (given the market) if they worked for 10+ years and made regular biweekly contributions. Their mindset is totally different. Instead of seeing 20K grow into 100K over the course of 4-5 years, they'd rather take 20K run it up to 50K quickly while enjoying the ride and then eventually when it goes it down to 0., they detest sports betting and start using terms like fixed, sucks, etc.

One other thing is monitoring your own results. I'm willing to bet that at least 80% of the people on this site couldn't tell you who they bet on back on March, April, or May 1st of this year and why they made that wager. They don't have a clue. I'm sure they don't have notes on the game or anything like that. Again, they're gambling, not investing, learning, or improving their strategy.       

I'm not very familiar with the mini S&P as Austin mentions, but I would like to get into pro trading over the next year or so.  Perhaps you could break that down a bit more as I certainly would appreciate it. 
 
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Posted: #7
The ultimate goal is to make enough money gambling to invest into the market.  The stock market is much less riskier than sports gambling as long as you can manage your portfolio. 
 
If you know all the different tools that are available to you with different financial instruments you can nearly eliminate most of your downside risk.  The S&P future contracts are a great way to eliminate systematic risk.  The key to this is that you have to have the money to invest.  For myself I use my gambling proceeds to fund my investments in the stock market.
 
I personally believe that If I had 100,000 to invest in the market I would not have to work for the rest of my life.  Just like sports betting you can follow certain companies and ride their ups and downs.  On any given day you can make 10% return.  Of course this requires work all day long, but with shorting and put options you can take advantage of this volatile market.
 
bottom line is that I gamble and invest because investing is like legal gambling and I love action.
 
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Posted: #8
There is a guy on the rx under wealthhealth1 who i contacted and his contact's sports plays made me 8,000 last week betting 2k a game. He posted 6-0 or 7-0 on forum before stopping his posts
since some people are paying him now. Im wondering if someone
wants to split with me? If so send me a message.
 
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Posted: #9
What does it take to turn sports betting into sports investing? It seems just because the stock market is considered a legitimate system to place your money into, this makes it "investing." However, it seems to me that some people get into the market knowing very little about how it actually works. In my opinion, these people are "betting."
 
So why is it when someone hears a tip about how a team is going to cover a spread it is called betting, but when the same person gets a tip about a certain stock they know little to nothing about it is called investing? Is it because of social norms?
 
I am sorry if you do not agree with me, but I feel sports betting is way more legitimate than the market. If you believe you are privy to a fair market, you are foolish. Shady dealings go on all the time and the only people beating the system are the people fostering this atmosphere. At least in sports, the stats are all out there for all of us to see and make decisions about - given the data. For example, a pitchers era, a batters average, etc.
 
In the market, however, information is sometimes falsified, the truth hidden, or manipulated. Look at our current economy, look at Enron a few years back, and all these banks that were built on falsehoods. And who loses in the end? Us the regular Joe, the regular joe that thought he was investing in the market, but was really just gambling.
 
In conclusion, sports betting is considered "gambling" because it attracts degenerates and adrenaline junkies. The stock market attracts business school graduates and the like, so it is considered "investing." However the stereotypes are there because they are self perpetuating.
 
Sports betting is taboo, so someone that wants to fit in with certain circles of society, judges sports betting to be "gambling" only because that is what society has decided to deem it. However, this same person will "invest" in the market, but not think of it as "gambling" because of the fact that is is perceived this way.
 
Underneath it all though, both things can either be gambling or investing, the approach is all that matters. I dislike when people think Stock Market = Investing / Sports = Gambling.  The two things are interchangeable.
 
What are others opinions? How can we approach sports betting so that it is no longer just mere gambling, but investing?
 
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Posted: #10
I agree with much of what has been said, and after reading this it has got me to wondering what my ROI is on my account. I think public perception has definitely given "sports investing" a bad name, and to the people who claim games being fixed etc, the same can go for tons of companies who cook the books and play with numbers to show a profit when the company is actually in a decline. What about Enron years ago when they were using mark to market accounting or whatever and they were able to use made up numbers in their books that showed them making an enormous profit (I may not have that completely accurate but I know I am close). The thing is I believe the average man is able to make a much more educated bet on a sports game then the stock market which is why there is an enormous need for financial advisers. I kind of wish sportsbooks would show your ROI or other important info but I guess they are not looking for business from the educated bettors if there are enough people out there who just want action.
 
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Posted: #11
Very good points made by Patrick and DTher85.It can be impossible to get 100% accurate information on how certain companies may be performing (even though you may have your life savings riding on it) and in essence you are "gambling" on the outcome.To me gambling is playing roulette,slots, numbers or lottery games.Sports betting decisions are made by deductive reasoning and analysis about what is likely to happen. Anti-gambling people seem to think that the bookies are infallible and that it is impossible to make money in the longterm but it's all about getting value on your lines or prop/future bets etc.Then the bookies can be beaten and sports betting can be seen as a legitimate alternative to the financial markets.
Bet 5 Play Over Parlays and get rich
 
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Posted: #12
overall I think the biggest difference between sports betting and the stock market is time flexability.
 
with the sports bet the outcome is determined over about a three hour period and you either win or lose. with a stock, there is an extended period for your position to work which can stretch into years. classic example recently is Las Vegas Sands stock. those that had the guts to buy it when it was below 1.40 in March and held it now have made a 1000% profit. I don't know too many sports "investments" that work out that well although their have been some futures I have seen in the past that were huge BUT, once again, you can't sell those for a profit until they play out. even a future is an either WIN or LOSE your investment prop
 
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Posted: #13
I would have to agree with you rat, 

10 dollar stock  can go up and down, but the threat of it going to zero or losing say 50% in a short period of time can be mitigated by the use of stops.

If I bet on the Patriots and Tom Brady F-s his knee up in the first quarter, I cant just take my money back with a small loss, I lose everything I bet when Cassel cant hang.

If I buy apple and Steve Jobs gets sick and steps down, I could either take a small hit (not everything) or wait to see what happens,
(aapl ended up about 30% higher 2 months after this announcement) 

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is more flexibility and potential to stop losses with investing.
 
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Posted: #14
With a bet on a football match or even a futures bet if things aren't going your way you can trade out of your position for a small profit or indeed a small loss but the rules of  money management dictates that you shouldn't have that much exposure on a single game in the first place
Bet 5 Play Over Parlays and get rich
 
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Posted: #15
I have a similar thread up in the General Discussion section on whether you would invest $100,000 in sports betting or the financial markets if you guys want to check it out
Bet 5 Play Over Parlays and get rich
 
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Posted: #16
Agree 100% with American Psycho over there. There are people who feel they just have to make a bet everyday because there degenerates. I have taught myself discipline and have gone weeks with out making a single large bet. My bread and butter comes from betting large tennis favorites -2000 and more and I have made some serious cash from it. I do bet other sports but no where near how much I bet tennis.

Anyway one market they can steal all your money with a Judge watching and he will allow it because its perfectly legal. But the other market the Judge will send your bookie to jail. BS IF YOU ASK ME.
 
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Posted: #17
Anyway one market they can steal all your money with a Judge watching and he will allow it because its perfectly legal. But the other market the Judge will send your bookie to jail. BS IF YOU ASK ME.
 
I will agree with that. IF it's legal to day trade futures, stocks and stock options, which is the purest form of "financial market gambling", it should be legal to bet on sports.
 
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Posted: #18
Its funny cause a lot of people lost lots of money in real estate. But my dad always thought ahead and sold everything at best time. But just guess where he ran with all the money. Straight to his friends at MorganStanley.So either way he got screwed. Its a little family joke.
 
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Posted: #19
A good site out there is sports investment systems dot com

there an affiliate of the sports investor dot net which is a great sports investing service if your looking for one
 
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Posted: #20

One huge aspect nobody really touched on is that sports betting is essentially controlled by a group of guys who sit in a room and discuss spreads LVSC...With equity trading, it is basically a free-market and the prices of stocks change based on economics and supply and demand.   However, I'm too lazy to scroll up and find who said it but it is true, many corporations and business deals can definitley be shady and the average joe stock market investor can be taken advantage of by those in control of companies.  Whereas in sports betting a guy betting on the Patriots isn't going to get screwed by Bill Belicheck or Tom Brady conspiring to lose.  (Assuming theres Tim Donaghy-like players or refs)

A bettor who has a keen eye for capping games and following particular sports can be just as lucrative as a "bettor" who picks winning stocks.  As previously mentioned though, there is no real ceiling as to how much one can make trading stocks since it is much more "socially acceptable" to invest in the market than wager on sports.  Plus wagering on sports you'll eventually have a sportsbook maximum wager...

 
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Posted: #21
**Assuming theres NO Tim Donaghy-like players or refs
 
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Posted: #22
It looks like there was some good discussion on this topic over the past few months. One area that some of you seem to be touching on suggests specialization. For instance, many of you mentioned (just examples) following a specific team like the Pats in NFL, or a specific sport like Tennis in order to make solid investment choices. Couldn't the same be done in stocks with focusing on one industry or a specific number of companies? Perhaps even buying within a certain price range and high-volume levels for daytrading? Since there are so many options in both markets, focusing on specific areas may really help your portfolio and cut down on your time.  


 
 
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Posted: #23
Quote Originally Posted by S_A_I_N_T_S:

It looks like there was some good discussion on this topic over the past few months. One area that some of you seem to be touching on suggests specialization. For instance, many of you mentioned (just examples) following a specific team like the Pats in NFL, or a specific sport like Tennis in order to make solid investment choices. Couldn't the same be done in stocks with focusing on one industry or a specific number of companies? Perhaps even buying within a certain price range and high-volume levels for daytrading? Since there are so many options in both markets, focusing on specific areas may really help your portfolio and cut down on your time.  


 

Agree, same with following one small NCAA mens conference very closely and just betting those teams, with some good handicapping you'll have a better chance of coming away with money

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