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how much does +/- really matter?

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Prospect
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Posted: #1
when u see a player with a + u think automatically hes a good player.. is it a overrated stat, or of a team stat or your just on a good line.. but whats with superstars sumtimes having a - rating ie iiya kovalchuck has a minus rating almost his whole career yet he is one of the top 10 forwards i dont really get how that works..thoughts?
 
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Posted: #2
It means a lot of goals get scored against his team when he is on the ice. It's no coincidence.
The lion and the tiger may be more powerful, but the wolf doesn't perform in the circus.
 
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Posted: #3

not very overrated stat, but a +20 player is doing something alot better than somebody -20

 

 
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Posted: #4

if your on a bad team you can still be a good player and have a -rating

 

like rick nash is -21 right now but if he was on a good team he'd prob be +20ish

 
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Posted: #5
Yes, obviously on great teams the +/- will be inflated. I tend to look at the +/- leaders across the league, and the ones who play on average and bad teams stand out most to me.
 
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Posted: #6
Some teams hovering around .500 tend to have an equal amount of goals scored and allowed. Players with a high + on these teams stand out a lot too.
 
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Posted: #7
That stat can be misleading, for instance, PK specialists are at a disadvantage. They are meaningful when they are anomalous, either way above or below team avg. B. Richards is a hard one to figure out, not sure where his ranks now but was just below, in the minus column not too long ago. That is an odd stat considering his team gives up very few goals and he gets his share of PP time.  It's also bogus stat when one guy consistently costs your team goals, everyone on the Leafs (I know bad example) eats a minus on the stat sheet when Schenn has his defensive breakdowns. 
 
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Posted: #8

Misleading stat, imo. It's still relevant but one of the least important of all stats. It might determine how offensive or defensive minded a player tends to be but there's 4 other players on your team that effect the stat.

What if your goalie is pulled? you get a - for getting scored on.

Also depends on how you use it, would be good when considering/comparing equal players. ie. 3rd liner to 3rd liner

 
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Posted: #9
Quote Originally Posted by booboo:

Misleading stat, imo. It's still relevant but one of the least important of all stats. It might determine how offensive or defensive minded a player tends to be but there's 4 other players on your team that effect the stat.

What if your goalie is pulled? you get a - for getting scored on.

Also depends on how you use it, would be good when considering/comparing equal players. ie. 3rd liner to 3rd liner


when the net is empty plus/minus isn't counted.
 
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Posted: #10
i think the stat is useful when evaluating defencemen. chara and lidstrom come to mind.
 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by HockeyTeeth:

That stat can be misleading, for instance, PK specialists are at a disadvantage. They are meaningful when they are anomalous, either way above or below team avg. B. Richards is a hard one to figure out, not sure where his ranks now but was just below, in the minus column not too long ago. That is an odd stat considering his team gives up very few goals and he gets his share of PP time.  It's also bogus stat when one guy consistently costs your team goals, everyone on the Leafs (I know bad example) eats a minus on the stat sheet when Schenn has his defensive breakdowns. 

What? Power play goals are not counted towards +/-.
 
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Posted: #12
Quote Originally Posted by emmceevee:


when the net is empty plus/minus isn't counted.

I'm pretty sure it does.

Only case I found it doesn't apply is when you're on the pp and penalty shots. Also counts if you get a shorty scored on you.

 
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Posted: #13
Quote Originally Posted by UnderDogs1979:

Yes, obviously on great teams the +/- will be inflated. I tend to look at the +/- leaders across the league, and the ones who play on average and bad teams stand out most to me.


i agree with you
 
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Posted: #14
A lot of players (the Sedins come to mind) do not kill penalties but are power play/even strength guys.  They are less likely to produce a minus stat.  Vice versa, many players are limited to penalty killing roles which makes plus/minus very prone to the minus side.

Not a very good stat although I consider player roles in daily player pools.
 
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Posted: #15
Quote Originally Posted by booboo:

I'm pretty sure it does.

Only case I found it doesn't apply is when you're on the pp and penalty shots. Also counts if you get a shorty scored on you.


true, i just said that on wikipedia, could be wrong though.
 
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Posted: #16

If your team scores a power play goal while you’re on the ice, you do not get a plus. If you are on the ice killing a penalty and the opposition scores, you do not get a minus.

 

come on guys

 
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Posted: #17
Quote Originally Posted by IHIOUSE:

if your on a bad team you can still be a good player and have a -rating

 

like rick nash is -21 right now but if he was on a good team he'd prob be +20ish

 
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Posted: #18

PP/PK does not affect +/- ratings, except for the case of SHG. The team that scored a SHG is credited with a plus, and vice versa.

 
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Posted: #19
So technically, the sum of +/- for the game (both teams combined) might not be 0 because the team that scores a SHG would get (a total of) +4 (or +3 if it was 5-on-3) while the team on PP would get (a total of) -5
 
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Posted: #20
I stand corrected
 
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Posted: #21
i don't like this stat at all, guys on good lines/teams have this stat inflated. as someone stated, the best way to use this stat is to also look at the players on their line and the team they play for.
 
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Posted: #22
Quote Originally Posted by metalbill:

i think the stat is useful when evaluating defencemen. chara and lidstrom come to mind.

Totally agree.  +/- is great for defensemen, and the best examples might be the two you just mentioned.  

It does say something about some centers, but not nearly as much...

 
 
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Posted: #23
I did not know that re: +/- and pp and pk. Thought it was part of the pkg.
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