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    All Forums | Poker

    Complaints about bad beats

    HutchEmAll
    golfinfool
    ChanceP
    mmac66
    NL_Holdem34
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    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Nov. 12, 2008 - 10:27 AM ET #1

    No doubt we have all been there.  I got whacked by a two outer and a 3 outer last weekend in the two SNG's I played and didn't cash.  Disappointing.  Lots of folks talking about how on-line poker is rigged. 
     
    If you watched the WSOP final table, maybe that will help change your mind.  I was on Bluff Mag.'s website and I went through both days...hand by hand.  I think I've read them all twice.  Go take a look at them.  For the number of hands that actually make it to the river (a VERY small number overall), here is what I saw:  Eastgate with a one outer on the river when he spikes a 6.  Rheem gets eliminated with A-K when Eastgate flops a Q (he held A-Q).  Montgomery goes runner runner for a straight to KO Marquis who had flopped a set. 

    My God, Montgomery sucked out HUGE 2 times (once before the final table and once at the final table).  For the number of hands he played to the river (a tiny amount), that is staggering.

    Before the final table, Marquis hits the 4 flush to stay alive.  D. Phillips hits an ace with A-Q when Schwartz has Q-Q.
     
    There are examples of bad beats ALL OVER that final table and with some of the hands leading right up to the final table.  And this is in an event where most pots don't even make it to the flop, much less the river.
     
    Contrast that with on-line where most pots are contested (and seen to the river) and where you see many more hands.  It's HARDLY surprising you see a decent number of bad beats.
     
    Wake up and smell the coffee people.  You know who you are.
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    No doubt we have all been there.  I got whacked by a two outer and a 3 outer last weekend in the two SNG's I played and didn't cash.  Disappointing.  Lots of folks talking about how on-line poker is rigged. 
     
    If you watched the WSOP final table, maybe that will help change your mind.  I was on Bluff Mag.'s website and I went through both days...hand by hand.  I think I've read them all twice.  Go take a look at them.  For the number of hands that actually make it to the river (a VERY small number overall), here is what I saw:  Eastgate with a one outer on the river when he spikes a 6.  Rheem gets eliminated with A-K when Eastgate flops a Q (he held A-Q).  Montgomery goes runner runner for a straight to KO Marquis who had flopped a set. 

    My God, Montgomery sucked out HUGE 2 times (once before the final table and once at the final table).  For the number of hands he played to the river (a tiny amount), that is staggering.

    Before the final table, Marquis hits the 4 flush to stay alive.  D. Phillips hits an ace with A-Q when Schwartz has Q-Q.
     
    There are examples of bad beats ALL OVER that final table and with some of the hands leading right up to the final table.  And this is in an event where most pots don't even make it to the flop, much less the river.
     
    Contrast that with on-line where most pots are contested (and seen to the river) and where you see many more hands.  It's HARDLY surprising you see a decent number of bad beats.
     
    Wake up and smell the coffee people.  You know who you are.
     
    golfinfool
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    Posted: Nov. 12, 2008 - 10:35 AM ET #2

    Everyone has to blame someone for losing money. Just like the NFL is rigged also. All the refs work against what ever bet I put in. It is a common fact.
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    Everyone has to blame someone for losing money. Just like the NFL is rigged also. All the refs work against what ever bet I put in. It is a common fact.
     
    ChanceP
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    Posted: Nov. 12, 2008 - 1:35 PM ET #3

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    No doubt we have all been there.  I got whacked by a two outer and a 3 outer last weekend in the two SNG's I played and didn't cash.  Disappointing.  Lots of folks talking about how on-line poker is rigged. 
     
    If you watched the WSOP final table, maybe that will help change your mind.  I was on Bluff Mag.'s website and I went through both days...hand by hand.  I think I've read them all twice.  Go take a look at them.  For the number of hands that actually make it to the river (a VERY small number overall), here is what I saw:  Eastgate with a one outer on the river when he spikes a 6.  Rheem gets eliminated with A-K when Eastgate flops a Q (he held A-Q).  Montgomery goes runner runner for a straight to KO Marquis who had flopped a set. 

    My God, Montgomery sucked out HUGE 2 times (once before the final table and once at the final table).  For the number of hands he played to the river (a tiny amount), that is staggering.

    Before the final table, Marquis hits the 4 flush to stay alive.  D. Phillips hits an ace with A-Q when Schwartz has Q-Q.
     
    There are examples of bad beats ALL OVER that final table and with some of the hands leading right up to the final table.  And this is in an event where most pots don't even make it to the flop, much less the river.
     
    Contrast that with on-line where most pots are contested (and seen to the river) and where you see many more hands.  It's HARDLY surprising you see a decent number of bad beats.
     
    Wake up and smell the coffee people.  You know who you are.

     

     

    Very well said Hutch

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    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    No doubt we have all been there.  I got whacked by a two outer and a 3 outer last weekend in the two SNG's I played and didn't cash.  Disappointing.  Lots of folks talking about how on-line poker is rigged. 
     
    If you watched the WSOP final table, maybe that will help change your mind.  I was on Bluff Mag.'s website and I went through both days...hand by hand.  I think I've read them all twice.  Go take a look at them.  For the number of hands that actually make it to the river (a VERY small number overall), here is what I saw:  Eastgate with a one outer on the river when he spikes a 6.  Rheem gets eliminated with A-K when Eastgate flops a Q (he held A-Q).  Montgomery goes runner runner for a straight to KO Marquis who had flopped a set. 

    My God, Montgomery sucked out HUGE 2 times (once before the final table and once at the final table).  For the number of hands he played to the river (a tiny amount), that is staggering.

    Before the final table, Marquis hits the 4 flush to stay alive.  D. Phillips hits an ace with A-Q when Schwartz has Q-Q.
     
    There are examples of bad beats ALL OVER that final table and with some of the hands leading right up to the final table.  And this is in an event where most pots don't even make it to the flop, much less the river.
     
    Contrast that with on-line where most pots are contested (and seen to the river) and where you see many more hands.  It's HARDLY surprising you see a decent number of bad beats.
     
    Wake up and smell the coffee people.  You know who you are.

     

     

    Very well said Hutch

     
    ChanceP
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    Posted: Nov. 12, 2008 - 1:36 PM ET #4

    Quote Originally Posted by golfinfool:

     All the refs work against what ever bet I put in. It is a common fact.

     

    Boy it sure feels that way sometimes doesnt it!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfinfool:

     All the refs work against what ever bet I put in. It is a common fact.

     

    Boy it sure feels that way sometimes doesnt it!!!!!!!!

     
    mmac66
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    Posted: Nov. 12, 2008 - 5:34 PM ET #5

    Quote Originally Posted by golfinfool:

    Everyone has to blame someone for losing money. Just like the NFL is rigged also. All the refs work against what ever bet I put in. It is a common fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfinfool:

    Everyone has to blame someone for losing money. Just like the NFL is rigged also. All the refs work against what ever bet I put in. It is a common fact.

     
    NL_Holdem34
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    Posted: Nov. 12, 2008 - 8:12 PM ET #6

    Amen Hutch - way too much blame about bad beats and rigged poker
     
    That being said, I think there are some sites that are a bit shady as evidenced by the 60 minutes thread
     
    good post
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    Amen Hutch - way too much blame about bad beats and rigged poker
     
    That being said, I think there are some sites that are a bit shady as evidenced by the 60 minutes thread
     
    good post
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Nov. 12, 2008 - 9:55 PM ET #7

    Fellas-

    NL-

    I guess the on-line debate will rage on, but I found it interesting anyway (it's the first time I've gone through a FT hand by hand for a WSOP event). 

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    Fellas-

    NL-

    I guess the on-line debate will rage on, but I found it interesting anyway (it's the first time I've gone through a FT hand by hand for a WSOP event). 

     
    NJDevils
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    Posted: Nov. 18, 2008 - 7:34 PM ET #8

    I hate when people tell me their bad beat stories while I am sitting and playing
     
    WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!???
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    I hate when people tell me their bad beat stories while I am sitting and playing
     
    WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!???
     
    MWC
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    Posted: Nov. 19, 2008 - 12:59 PM ET #9

    Well, not to take sides here, but I think there are just as many people believing that these sites are rigged as there are that justify why they continue to play - actually, there are way more people that have convinced themselves that they're not rigged, hence the number of online players. 
     
    I do know one thing, collusion is very real and there's really no way of stopping it.  I also believe that the big sites software programs are written to end tournments as quickly as possible.  Ever notice on Stars when heads up or close to it, one person seems to go on a heater?  I don't think it's a coincidence.  Why?  More hands played (cash games) and the more tourneys you play, means more money to the company.  Simple.  You think they want the final two or three players battling out a $50 buy-in tournament for 14 hours?  No. They want you playing as many tournaments and cash games as you can.
     
    Ok, so maybe I do lean one way on the subject. 
     
     
     
     
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    Well, not to take sides here, but I think there are just as many people believing that these sites are rigged as there are that justify why they continue to play - actually, there are way more people that have convinced themselves that they're not rigged, hence the number of online players. 
     
    I do know one thing, collusion is very real and there's really no way of stopping it.  I also believe that the big sites software programs are written to end tournments as quickly as possible.  Ever notice on Stars when heads up or close to it, one person seems to go on a heater?  I don't think it's a coincidence.  Why?  More hands played (cash games) and the more tourneys you play, means more money to the company.  Simple.  You think they want the final two or three players battling out a $50 buy-in tournament for 14 hours?  No. They want you playing as many tournaments and cash games as you can.
     
    Ok, so maybe I do lean one way on the subject. 
     
     
     
     
     
    golfinfool
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    Posted: Nov. 19, 2008 - 2:33 PM ET #10

    Good point MWC
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    Good point MWC
     
    mmac66
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    Posted: Nov. 20, 2008 - 11:14 AM ET #11

    I don't think online is rigged.......but the amount of grotesque beats in the online game isn't normal. I've played live poker for years and I've now played thousands of hours of online poker and from my experience the online game is more volatile and unpredictable than live. For what reason, I don't know. I don't buy you see more bad beats because you see more hands.....that would be proportional and in my opinion there is a disproportionate amount of bad beats online than live....(not sure if that made sense ) but I'm trying.
     
    From my own experience lately playing online SNG's I once lost 11 straight hands with AA when the money went in pre-flop.....small sample but what am I at worst in that situation 70-30? That's strange. Last game I played the following hands happened (I was only involved in one) in a row: JJ<A8; JJ<8-4; AA<10-6; AA<KK; QQ < J-10..........just doesn't make sense to me. Like I said I don't think it is rigged but something is funny. I'll continue to play. I've made $$ both live and online although since late July/early Aug I've been on a horrific downswing online....impossible beats and coolers, but such is life.
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    I don't think online is rigged.......but the amount of grotesque beats in the online game isn't normal. I've played live poker for years and I've now played thousands of hours of online poker and from my experience the online game is more volatile and unpredictable than live. For what reason, I don't know. I don't buy you see more bad beats because you see more hands.....that would be proportional and in my opinion there is a disproportionate amount of bad beats online than live....(not sure if that made sense ) but I'm trying.
     
    From my own experience lately playing online SNG's I once lost 11 straight hands with AA when the money went in pre-flop.....small sample but what am I at worst in that situation 70-30? That's strange. Last game I played the following hands happened (I was only involved in one) in a row: JJ<A8; JJ<8-4; AA<10-6; AA<KK; QQ < J-10..........just doesn't make sense to me. Like I said I don't think it is rigged but something is funny. I'll continue to play. I've made $$ both live and online although since late July/early Aug I've been on a horrific downswing online....impossible beats and coolers, but such is life.
     
    golfinfool
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    Posted: Nov. 20, 2008 - 11:26 AM ET #12

    Just win you think you're out, it pulls you right back in.
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    Just win you think you're out, it pulls you right back in.
     
    ParmyCharm
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    Posted: Nov. 21, 2008 - 5:24 PM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by mmac66:

    in my opinion there is a disproportionate amount of bad beats online than live


    I think some of it has to do with the accessibility of online poker.  You get knocked out of a tournament online and you can go enter another one.  At a live event, that is not always the case.  What I am getting at is that live players are in general more invested in the tournament they have entered, so they will be less willing to call or get all in with marginal holdings.  Online, not so much, and when you've got looser calls/plays, you're going to get more bad beats.  And therein lies the disproportionality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmac66:

    in my opinion there is a disproportionate amount of bad beats online than live


    I think some of it has to do with the accessibility of online poker.  You get knocked out of a tournament online and you can go enter another one.  At a live event, that is not always the case.  What I am getting at is that live players are in general more invested in the tournament they have entered, so they will be less willing to call or get all in with marginal holdings.  Online, not so much, and when you've got looser calls/plays, you're going to get more bad beats.  And therein lies the disproportionality.
     
    NFLNightmares
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    Posted: Nov. 22, 2008 - 5:32 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by NJDevils:

    I hate when people tell me their bad beat stories while I am sitting and playing
     
    WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!???




    So true, it is rarely anything interesting anyway.  A four outter on the river is not newsworthy. Happens  a million times a day
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJDevils:

    I hate when people tell me their bad beat stories while I am sitting and playing
     
    WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!???




    So true, it is rarely anything interesting anyway.  A four outter on the river is not newsworthy. Happens  a million times a day
     
    WinRaces
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    Posted: Nov. 22, 2008 - 7:49 PM ET #15

    There is no way you lost 11 consecutive all in with AA preflop...
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    There is no way you lost 11 consecutive all in with AA preflop...
     
    WinRaces
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    Posted: Nov. 22, 2008 - 7:59 PM ET #16

    By my definition there has only been one bad beat that ive ever heard of...



    Player 1 is holding AA

    Player 2 is holding 77

    Player 3 is holding 77


    player 1 raises big... player 2 calls...

    player 3 thinks for a while and fold, but in doing so accidentally tosses his cards face up into the muck....

    then as the dealer goes to deal the flop he messes up and knocks the first 10 cards off the top of the deck face up inot the muck... now the whole deck is dead by rule... but the two players still have big bets out so they have to continue some how.... the pit boss says to gather all the cards in the deck, except for the players hole cards, and re shuffle...

    after reshuffling.. the dealer flops 7-A-7 and all the money ends up going in on the flop......


    any conventional bad beat is still within the realm of the game so when i hear a bad beat story i just think to myself: 1. i have had that happen to me atleast 5 times and 2. it CAN happen so why is a bad beat!!!!!
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    By my definition there has only been one bad beat that ive ever heard of...



    Player 1 is holding AA

    Player 2 is holding 77

    Player 3 is holding 77


    player 1 raises big... player 2 calls...

    player 3 thinks for a while and fold, but in doing so accidentally tosses his cards face up into the muck....

    then as the dealer goes to deal the flop he messes up and knocks the first 10 cards off the top of the deck face up inot the muck... now the whole deck is dead by rule... but the two players still have big bets out so they have to continue some how.... the pit boss says to gather all the cards in the deck, except for the players hole cards, and re shuffle...

    after reshuffling.. the dealer flops 7-A-7 and all the money ends up going in on the flop......


    any conventional bad beat is still within the realm of the game so when i hear a bad beat story i just think to myself: 1. i have had that happen to me atleast 5 times and 2. it CAN happen so why is a bad beat!!!!!
     
    Godfather16
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    Posted: Nov. 25, 2008 - 11:00 PM ET #17

    now that is a bad beat, what are the odds? Billions to 1?
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    now that is a bad beat, what are the odds? Billions to 1?
     
    ChanceP
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    Posted: Nov. 25, 2008 - 11:07 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by WinRaces:

    There is no way you lost 11 consecutive all in with AA preflop...

     

     

    Thats the exact thing I thought but hey, we gotta make the story sound good right!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinRaces:

    There is no way you lost 11 consecutive all in with AA preflop...

     

     

    Thats the exact thing I thought but hey, we gotta make the story sound good right!!!!!

     
    ZiggyDawg
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    Posted: Nov. 26, 2008 - 4:50 AM ET #19

    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceP:

     

     

    Thats the exact thing I thought but hey, we gotta make the story sound good right!!!!!

    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceP:

     

     

    Thats the exact thing I thought but hey, we gotta make the story sound good right!!!!!

    ....

     
    mmac66
    mmac66
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    Posted: Nov. 26, 2008 - 3:44 PM ET #20

    Quote Originally Posted by ParmyCharm:



    I think some of it has to do with the accessibility of online poker.  You get knocked out of a tournament online and you can go enter another one.  At a live event, that is not always the case.  What I am getting at is that live players are in general more invested in the tournament they have entered, so they will be less willing to call or get all in with marginal holdings.  Online, not so much, and when you've got looser calls/plays, you're going to get more bad beats.  And therein lies the disproportionality.

    That's a logical argument and one I would be willing to buy into...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParmyCharm:



    I think some of it has to do with the accessibility of online poker.  You get knocked out of a tournament online and you can go enter another one.  At a live event, that is not always the case.  What I am getting at is that live players are in general more invested in the tournament they have entered, so they will be less willing to call or get all in with marginal holdings.  Online, not so much, and when you've got looser calls/plays, you're going to get more bad beats.  And therein lies the disproportionality.

    That's a logical argument and one I would be willing to buy into...

     
     
    mmac66
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    Posted: Nov. 26, 2008 - 3:47 PM ET #21

    Quote Originally Posted by WinRaces:

    There is no way you lost 11 consecutive all in with AA preflop...

    This is indeed true......not in one sitting but over a week or so. I'm only talking about called all-ins when the cards are shown down pre-flop. BTW, I wasn't bitching about it, just commenting on it. Beats online are peculiar in my opinion.

    Believe it or not, I don't give a damn.....I've been on here awhile and don't bullshit.....so whatever, it's water off my back.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinRaces:

    There is no way you lost 11 consecutive all in with AA preflop...

    This is indeed true......not in one sitting but over a week or so. I'm only talking about called all-ins when the cards are shown down pre-flop. BTW, I wasn't bitching about it, just commenting on it. Beats online are peculiar in my opinion.

    Believe it or not, I don't give a damn.....I've been on here awhile and don't bullshit.....so whatever, it's water off my back.

     

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