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    All Forums | Poker

    Haralabos Vouglaris goes off on Eric Lindgren...

    scalabrine
    wizardofroz
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    scalabrine
    scalabrine
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2012 - 7:06 AM ET #1


    Rare to see poker players go off on others in their own community in this detail (Daniel on Annie aside). But after Black Friday, everyone and everything is fair game.

    Erick the Degen has owed me and countless others money for a number of years and never quite got around to settling these debts while the FTP money train was chugging along.  I’d estimate that Erick received at least $12 million from the sale of some of his full tilt shares as well as the monthly dividend distributions. 

    Note that I arrived at $12 million as  Edog’s distribution figure because at one point he owned 3% of the company. FTP insiders have reported that the company paid out approximately >400 million  in distributions, and he also so either sold a share or took a 1 year pawn shop style loan against a percentage of his ownership at some point in March of 2008.

    I found out about this loan / sale from a friend and when I confronted Erick about it (he never offered to pay me any money) he at first denied that he was doing that then acted all indignant when I confronted him. I actually went to Howard and explained to him the situation and at that point Erick begrudgingly paid off roughly 20% of what he owed me. This 20% payment represented less than 10% of what he actually received from selling his share.

    He also promised to make regular monthly payments as soon as his monthly distributions came in to clear up the rest of our figure in approximated 1.5 years time. These payments I think lasted 1 or 2 months before Erick started avoiding me and being unresponsive.

    Some have asked how Erick came to actually owe me money, some even implying that I beat him out of it betting sports (I didn’t). And while in my opinion the reason why he owes me money is immaterial.  It would best be classified as a loan of sorts.
    At the time of Black Friday, Erick had paid off roughly 65% of his loan (not including interest). 

    it took him 6 begrudging years to do so, which at the time was 5 years longer than he claimed it would take him to initially pay off the figure.

    After Black Friday, the FTP money train stopped chugging along, and with that Erick went from;

    A guy who was comparing his wealth to that of Hollywood Actors slash Comedians 

    To a guy who was called out for being a deadbeat on 2+2 

    The truth is Erick was always a deadbeat, he was just a deadbeat who happened to have a money tree in his backyard in the form of his 2-3% ownership of FTP. He was actually worse than a deadbeat because rather than pay off his debts with his distribution payments, he’d end up up gambling even more with new people and lose more money.

    At one point I told Erick that all he had to was just chill for a year and he’d have everyone paid off with all his FTP money. For whatever reason that didn’t really appeal to him. 


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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    Rare to see poker players go off on others in their own community in this detail (Daniel on Annie aside). But after Black Friday, everyone and everything is fair game.

    Erick the Degen has owed me and countless others money for a number of years and never quite got around to settling these debts while the FTP money train was chugging along.  I’d estimate that Erick received at least $12 million from the sale of some of his full tilt shares as well as the monthly dividend distributions. 

    Note that I arrived at $12 million as  Edog’s distribution figure because at one point he owned 3% of the company. FTP insiders have reported that the company paid out approximately >400 million  in distributions, and he also so either sold a share or took a 1 year pawn shop style loan against a percentage of his ownership at some point in March of 2008.

    I found out about this loan / sale from a friend and when I confronted Erick about it (he never offered to pay me any money) he at first denied that he was doing that then acted all indignant when I confronted him. I actually went to Howard and explained to him the situation and at that point Erick begrudgingly paid off roughly 20% of what he owed me. This 20% payment represented less than 10% of what he actually received from selling his share.

    He also promised to make regular monthly payments as soon as his monthly distributions came in to clear up the rest of our figure in approximated 1.5 years time. These payments I think lasted 1 or 2 months before Erick started avoiding me and being unresponsive.

    Some have asked how Erick came to actually owe me money, some even implying that I beat him out of it betting sports (I didn’t). And while in my opinion the reason why he owes me money is immaterial.  It would best be classified as a loan of sorts.
    At the time of Black Friday, Erick had paid off roughly 65% of his loan (not including interest). 

    it took him 6 begrudging years to do so, which at the time was 5 years longer than he claimed it would take him to initially pay off the figure.

    After Black Friday, the FTP money train stopped chugging along, and with that Erick went from;

    A guy who was comparing his wealth to that of Hollywood Actors slash Comedians 

    To a guy who was called out for being a deadbeat on 2+2 

    The truth is Erick was always a deadbeat, he was just a deadbeat who happened to have a money tree in his backyard in the form of his 2-3% ownership of FTP. He was actually worse than a deadbeat because rather than pay off his debts with his distribution payments, he’d end up up gambling even more with new people and lose more money.

    At one point I told Erick that all he had to was just chill for a year and he’d have everyone paid off with all his FTP money. For whatever reason that didn’t really appeal to him. 


     
    scalabrine
    scalabrine
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2012 - 7:06 AM ET #2

    Daniel to his credit did call Erick out on twitter. But Erick didn’t receive the usual rabid KidPoker treatment. 

    How you could not call a guy out who was outright stiffing and slow paying people during the same time period he received $12m in distributions is beyond me?

    If you are receiving  ~$250k a month and choosing to gamble that money rather than pay off your debts, in my books that you are a stiff and deserve to be called out for it.

    Note that the $12m figure didn’t include an additional $4 million that Erick received immediately before Black Friday. Half of which was a loan, and half of which I believe was theft.

    Whats that theft?

    Yes there was the small matter of him asking for a $2 million loan from Chris Ferguson in April of 2011 and actually receiving $4 million by mistake. 

    Say What?

    Jump to around the 10 min mark of this video. 

    I commented on twitter that if it was Daniels arch enemy Annie Duke who had borrowed the $2m, and for all intents and purposes “stole” an additional  $2m when refusing to return it, Daniel probably would have been foaming at the mouth to talk about what a thief Annie was. (Yes receiving money in a clerical error and not returning it is usually classified as theft). 

    And while I don’t think Daniel is required to attack his friends with the same venom he attacks his enemies. I do think he needs to be a little more balanced about things.

    Recall that at one point he video blogged about how he would have loved it if Howard Lederer got  assaulted (I think with a baseball bat I can’t quite remember and can’t be bothered to watch it again),  and yet when it when it came to discussing Erick he kind of shuffled it off.

    Daniel even went so far as to split hairs (incorrectly I might add) and claim that although receiving AND KEEPING a $2m clerical error was wrong, it wasn’t actually fraud or theft. 

    Newsflash. Some would Disagree. 

    Finally I’d like to add that I didn’t really intend this to be an attack on Daniel I just expected him to be a bit more balanced in his critique of Edog. And while Daniel definitely gets a bit too riled up for my taste in his crusade of good vs evil in the poker world. He seems like the kind of person who would rather starve than stiff someone.

    In addition Daniel is very loyal to his friends, and I admire that quality. In fact I think that everyone deserves a doggedly loyal friend like Daniel.

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    Daniel to his credit did call Erick out on twitter. But Erick didn’t receive the usual rabid KidPoker treatment. 

    How you could not call a guy out who was outright stiffing and slow paying people during the same time period he received $12m in distributions is beyond me?

    If you are receiving  ~$250k a month and choosing to gamble that money rather than pay off your debts, in my books that you are a stiff and deserve to be called out for it.

    Note that the $12m figure didn’t include an additional $4 million that Erick received immediately before Black Friday. Half of which was a loan, and half of which I believe was theft.

    Whats that theft?

    Yes there was the small matter of him asking for a $2 million loan from Chris Ferguson in April of 2011 and actually receiving $4 million by mistake. 

    Say What?

    Jump to around the 10 min mark of this video. 

    I commented on twitter that if it was Daniels arch enemy Annie Duke who had borrowed the $2m, and for all intents and purposes “stole” an additional  $2m when refusing to return it, Daniel probably would have been foaming at the mouth to talk about what a thief Annie was. (Yes receiving money in a clerical error and not returning it is usually classified as theft). 

    And while I don’t think Daniel is required to attack his friends with the same venom he attacks his enemies. I do think he needs to be a little more balanced about things.

    Recall that at one point he video blogged about how he would have loved it if Howard Lederer got  assaulted (I think with a baseball bat I can’t quite remember and can’t be bothered to watch it again),  and yet when it when it came to discussing Erick he kind of shuffled it off.

    Daniel even went so far as to split hairs (incorrectly I might add) and claim that although receiving AND KEEPING a $2m clerical error was wrong, it wasn’t actually fraud or theft. 

    Newsflash. Some would Disagree. 

    Finally I’d like to add that I didn’t really intend this to be an attack on Daniel I just expected him to be a bit more balanced in his critique of Edog. And while Daniel definitely gets a bit too riled up for my taste in his crusade of good vs evil in the poker world. He seems like the kind of person who would rather starve than stiff someone.

    In addition Daniel is very loyal to his friends, and I admire that quality. In fact I think that everyone deserves a doggedly loyal friend like Daniel.

     
    scalabrine
    scalabrine
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    Posts: 28221
    Posted: Oct. 11, 2012 - 7:08 AM ET #3

    If you want to read his blog, it's here:

    Has some great NBA stuff there too...

    https://aloneinthecorner.com/
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    If you want to read his blog, it's here:

    Has some great NBA stuff there too...

    https://aloneinthecorner.com/
     
     
    wizardofroz
    wizardofroz
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    Joined: Oct, 2004
    Posts: 6768
    Posted: Oct. 15, 2012 - 5:41 AM ET #4

    Quote Originally Posted by packersbackers:

    98% of real, old school poker players are scam artists and hustlers

    Lindgren is not exception. All the love affair with poker on tv and the early wpt days made these guys look like angels and philanthropists,,,all images of these shady people were smartly created post moneymaker boom to make the poker stars and full tilt era possible, where millions of $$$ from innocent people were fleeced following black Monday. 

    Guys like "Jesus" Ferguson and Lederer will get what they deserve (from a legal point of view) coming to them eventually. 

    Guys like Lindgren will go bust and likely off themselves before age 45

    Guys like Voulgaris deserve to lose their money in full plus interest, if they think lending a scumbag degen gambler like Lindgren a personal loan in the millions

    Brick and Mortar was, is, and will always be the way to go for legit poker players. Don't borrow, don't lend. Simple. 

     These broke, degenerate losers like Lindgren were doing a great job trying to convince gullible people into believing that they were actually making a living off of a lousy card game.   

    Why did we not hear stories of 7-card stud players that were making millions back in the day before Hold Em became popular?

    And degenerate losers like Lindgren run the same con.  They tell you how great of a player they are while asking to borrow money in the same sentence. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by packersbackers:

    98% of real, old school poker players are scam artists and hustlers

    Lindgren is not exception. All the love affair with poker on tv and the early wpt days made these guys look like angels and philanthropists,,,all images of these shady people were smartly created post moneymaker boom to make the poker stars and full tilt era possible, where millions of $$$ from innocent people were fleeced following black Monday. 

    Guys like "Jesus" Ferguson and Lederer will get what they deserve (from a legal point of view) coming to them eventually. 

    Guys like Lindgren will go bust and likely off themselves before age 45

    Guys like Voulgaris deserve to lose their money in full plus interest, if they think lending a scumbag degen gambler like Lindgren a personal loan in the millions

    Brick and Mortar was, is, and will always be the way to go for legit poker players. Don't borrow, don't lend. Simple. 

     These broke, degenerate losers like Lindgren were doing a great job trying to convince gullible people into believing that they were actually making a living off of a lousy card game.   

    Why did we not hear stories of 7-card stud players that were making millions back in the day before Hold Em became popular?

    And degenerate losers like Lindgren run the same con.  They tell you how great of a player they are while asking to borrow money in the same sentence. 

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