I Had To Lay Down Aces

In a big tournament this weekend, I get dealt pocket aces UTG, of course I hate this position, but I make it 4 times the big blind, and get 2 callers, and I'm like WTF? I bet 1/3 of my chips so most likely I am all in on the flop, but there a some flops where I don't wanna play aces. The flop is 10 10 2 so this is dangerous, I check, the idiot next to me goes all in w/ 9 9, and a bigger idiot w/ K 2 goes all in too. So I'm like one of these assholes has a 10. I chuck my aces and almost puke when I see their hands. But the tool with the 9's catches a 9 on the river , so would have cracked my aces anyways. I made a good laydown, as I know if i went all in on the flop them the idiot w/ the 9's would have called anyway, as he was seriously overplaying his hands all night.

That's a tough lay down, the right move, but not many people can do it.  Takes discipline to do that.

Very good laydown- in fact even if u would have pushed all-in preflop, u would have been burned on the river.

yeah I know this asshole would have called my all in before the flop, I saw him go all in with a K 6 off hand when he flopped a king. On the final table this guys call 2 all ins with 9 9 again when he wasn't short stacked, and he went busted, and he was like "where is my 9 on the river?"

 nice laydown, ya i like to fold when im a 84% to win the hand too...

 

So what if the guy wouldve hit the 9, thats not a  good fold, its a fortunate fold but not good. You had 2 players down to 2 outs and folded, what is good?

genius - I folded after the flop. Before the flop with Aces or even Kings or Queens, I am gonna gamble. After the flop the chances of one player having a 10 are too great, so then I would be down to 2 outs. For a tournament you are looking to survive.  I fold aces all the time on the flop or turn, if the flop is all the same suit, or comes 8 9 10 w/ a flush draw, the aces are no good. And I would say whenever I fold this hand it has always been the right move. now this is in limit where there are more people seeing the flop. In no limit cash game it is harder to lose with aces as you can make it heads up w/ a large bet.

spoon siggy - did you just start playing poker? You must play with the idea that you never fold aces or  kings or whatever because you must be a favorite. These %'s don't mean shit when you're busted. Next time you bust out of the money, tell the cashier that you were an 84% fave, a 90 % fave, blah blah blah, see what they pay you for that. I saw a lady that was all in w/ a set of 6's on the flop, a guy just had A J with a J on the board. She was a 98.5 % fave after the flop. The turn is an ace. The river is an ace. she busts out of the money. The guy that got lucky finished 2nd.

Yeah i just started playing poker, about 5 years ago you prick. My point is that you shouldnt be hailed for makign a good laydown if you had the best hand when you folded. 

 

I can read just as well as anyone and i did READ that there was a flop in the hand 1010 2, that is certainly not what i would consider to be a scary flop. There are only two types of legitament hands that can beat you, 22 or 10x. I know that reading opponents may be a bit to ask of you, but try it once in a while, know your opponents. If youve seen the guy playing wildly aggressive then you know he could have anything and you know that everyone else knows that too. He could have the 10 but probably not because why is he gonna just push all in with a 10 instead of trying to get some value out of it. Im not saying that this is an unthinkable play, just something that i have found commonly to be true.

 

Also, god forbid you betting out on the flop, that might actually, this may sound crazy again, but give you information. If you bet out, the crazy player pushes all in, that doesnt for sure mean he has a 10, he could be over playing 2s or think his pp is good, hmmm. However if you bet, the maniac goes all in and then the guy behind him calls as well, you should know that you arent good because you showd strength when the flop hit and still met a lot of confrontation. However when you check, they could very easily have just put you on ace high and the 9s wanted you to put your money in and just got a bonus when an idiot put his money in with k2.

 

I find it very interesing also that you raise 1/3 of your chips yet still arent going to commit to the hand. I know this may sound crazy but you could have avoided this situation together if you, again, knew your opponent. If the maniac has been raising a ton of hands regardless of anything that is happening at the table, or calling fof a lot of hands. You really had two more options that im sure you didnt think of. First of all you could have limped utg with your aces, i know this may potentially be too advanced for your mind to fathom but bare with me. If you know that the maniac is probably gonna raise with any hand and you will so easily release your aces, why not just do it. If he doesnt raise and it just ends up beind a ton of people in the hand with you then just let it go, if he does raise then push it all in and force him to hit that 2 outer on you.

 

Finally, the percents dont mean shit after youve lost but while you are still in, why are you not going to take advantage of the situations. Im sure you are one to bitch about your bad beats or whatever but when you are a favorite you want your money in there.

 

If I raise UTG, I do not have Ace high, in fact there are only 4 possible hands that I'm gonna raise with UTG. Some guys don't even understand that so they can't put me on a hand. you don't know you are a favorite, if it is a ragged flop then of course you take your chances with an overpair, and if someone flops a middle set to beat you, then so be it. a flop with 2 paired face cards will have a player flopping trips a lot, because A 10, K 10, Q 10 etc are the types of hands that guys play. Even  9 10 suited is a hand that many will call a big raise with. Yeah I knew the guy that called me with the 9's, he was overplaying hands and I actually didn't think he had a 10, but the other caller with the K 2. You seem like a Monday Morning QB though as it's easy to make the call if you know what the opponents have, right.

I dont really know what to say to that becuase you literally wrote 5 sentences that dont say anything.

 

The point is because you misplayed the hand, it put you in a situation in which you couldnt call, that does not mean it was a good fold.

spoon - you probably don't play poker live very often and it is probably not like a job for you like it is for me, and you've probably never layed down aces - good for you. The way you describe it though is LOSING poker, as if you "think" you are the favorite then you should never fold. you have to have some sense of the situation, and my senses told me I was way behind, turns out I wasn't until the river, but if I would've risked all of my chips, then I wouldn't have cashed in this tournament for 4 times my buy in, so tell me how I made a bad lay down. This is not a limit cash game, not a no limit cash game, it's a tourney where one screw up and you're gone. I was reading something about Phil Hellmuth, he had 10 10, a guy had A A and raised before the flop, and another guy had 9 9 . Flop comes K T 9 with 2  diamonds. Guy w/ aces bets, Nines raises, Phil goes all in, and guy  w/ Aces folds. Now how can he fold here spoon? he has top possible pair but something told him he had run into a set or better.

You obviously havent been in the forum for very long because i have clearly stated that i play live pretty much every day. I do play it like a job and i likely play more hands in a week than you do in a month. You dont know shit about me so dont even try to talk to me like im just some punk coming in here with no idea what im talking about.

 

Obviously if you are a slight favorite you have to be more decisive about whether or not you want to put your money in however when you are a dominating favorite, you want your money fucking in there and if you get outdrawn then there was nothing more that you could do.

 

You are completely fucking out of your mind trying to bring up that situation and comparing it to the hand that you played. First of all that guy played it correctly in that he bet out so that if he got raised and reraised he knew for sure that he was beat. Also k109 with a flush draw is definitly a much scarier board than 10102. You can only hit 10102 so many ways but k109 has so many hands that people could be playing off of it and ya that is a very easy spot to fold aces. You could have 3 different sets, flopped straight, a couple gut shots, some openended, top pair top kicker, 2 pair, pair and a flush draw, flush draw. You have to be fucking crazy to compare those two situations.

 

Again why are you trying to tell me how to play a tournament, i know how to play. And you played the hand horribly, in tournaments you need to be accumulating chips and so if you are planning to commit 1/3 of your chips without even seeing the flop but yet not put your chips in when a MILDY scary board, at most, comes, youve got some problems with your game.

 

Also i would like to bring up the fact that because that guy correctly played his aces, he ended up getting awway from them when he was in fact behind, not just when he had a feeling he was beat, an incorrect one at that. In your example the guy bet out with his aces on a pretty scary flop, howeer because he did this he didnt get screwed in the hand. By betting he is  showing some strength after an intial preflop bet, however he is then confronted with some aggression and then again with even more aggression and from a player with a good reputation for being a strong player as well. How the fuck is he going to think his aces are good there?

You on the other hand didnt bet and left the door open to anyone who felt like betting to try to take the hand over from there and because of that, you actually technically benefited, but made a horrible play regardless.

 

Finally, cashing for 4x your tournament buy in isnt that high of a cash, I obviously dont know how big the tournament was but from my experiance you probably didnt make the final table unless it was a very small tournament and probably only got about half way through the remaining field once the payout was made.

 

Godfather,

 

You made a horrible laydown as explained above.  It turned out to be a good result for you because the guy caught a 2 outer but isn't that when you want to get your money in? 

 

Isn't this exactly the situation you would want from your opponents.  It will make you the most money in the long run.  You don't get many chances to be this big of a favorite, why not take advantage of him?

 

As spoondiggidy9 stated, betting out on the flop for information would've the wise thing to do, and you DO want all your chips in if the 99 goes all-in.  It's just unfortunate at that point if he puts a bad beat on you, as you can't worry about things you have no control over when you are a huge statistical favorite. 

 

One thing spoondiggidy9 is underestimating is that 1 of the 2 other players could be playing suited (or unsuited for that matter) AT, KT, QT, JT or possibly 22.  I agree that a "KT9" flop is MUCH scarier due to all the possible combos of hands that can crack AA, but a bet after the flop was in order to see where you stood.  And if someone put you all-in, then it's not out of the realm for 1 of the 2 to have you beat, and for you to possibly muck your aces.  The 99 would've sucked out on you as you have already stated, but you would have made a poor decision to fold.  This can easily be proven by asking if he would've gone all-in and exposed 99 after the flop, would you have called?  I hope it is a resounding, "YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS".  

you guys say I have to make a "feeler" bet on the flop, why? Then I am totally committed to the pot, might as well go all in, and I know the guy with the 9's is gonna call anyway. You say the "KT9 " board is way more dangerous, actually there are 3 hands to make  a set and 1 to make a straight, 4 hthe that could dominate the aces, while in my case are about 13 hands. Any 10 , and pocket deuces. someone said something about a flush draw, who cares? If you have aces and you know someone has a flush draw, are you gonna fold? no way. I will say that anytime I have folded aces or kings after the flop it has always been the right move after the river.

With no continuation bet on a rather safe flop, you then give up the lead in the hand and are put to the decision such as what happened on the flop.

 

 

 

In a tournament setting, are you serious?? You have no desire to pick up blinds? Also, playing only four hands from first position is a major tell! You limp, you're weak, you raise, you're strong. Makes no sense.

I did not read this whole thread...But I have to ask..How much is the Buy in for this Tourney?

Godfather16, you seem to be a very scared poker player. Quite simply, CHECKING is a sign of weakness.

Also, in order to survive in a tournament, you must willing to die. (risk all your chips)

 

Guys, no matter how many of us tell him this was a horrible laydown he is not going to agree, just look at his above quote.  If he does not want to take criticism on how he played a hand then why post it?  We were just trying to help by explaining when you are a huge favorite you should not fold.  If you think you made the right move then good for you, keep playing that way.  You must be right even though the consensus disagrees.  What was the point of your post in the first place?  If it was to brag about a good laydown then you might want to talk with someone that knows nothing about poker.  Maybe they will agree with you!

technically IT WAS NOT A GOOD LAYDOWN because you would have had the best hand when all of the money went in...you would have gotten unlucky and lost but you would have made the "correct " play.

 

if you base your thought on the fact that it was the right play because someone would have hit a 2 outer on you and you would have lost then i do not think that you are correct at all.

 

 

Ya think?  You should have beat him into the pot.  If you are going to give people credit for hitting a 2 outer BEFORE IT HAPPENS, then I'd just quit playing. 

 

Your initial thought was the best one IMO.....should have shoved 'em in on the flop.  If some guy had 2-2 or A-10 (pretty weak to call an UTG raise with) or maybe was fishing with something crazy like J-10, then so be it.  The way you played it was the about the weakest and tightest possible IMO.

Horrible laydown.....anyone with a poker brain will tell you that. When you have multiple callers on a large raise you have to put them usually on a pair or 2 large cards. I can't see anyone calling with a ten in their hand unless they had pocket 10's and made quads.  You were outplayed and should think about a new game because I don't think you have the stomach for poker.