It is the only game where so many people (WITHOUT REASON) think they are the best at what they do. Go to a casino and you will frequently see people who honestly believe they are the best in the world. I know a guy who is a decent player but he once told me there is no difference between him and guys like Ivey. In fact, he is trying to save money to play in the High Stakes Poker game (What a moron). No other sport or activity is like poker. In every other event, people know where they stand from the onset of their game. Even really good hoops players know that there could be several better players.
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
It is the only game where so many people (WITHOUT REASON) think they are the best at what they do. Go to a casino and you will frequently see people who honestly believe they are the best in the world. I know a guy who is a decent player but he once told me there is no difference between him and guys like Ivey. In fact, he is trying to save money to play in the High Stakes Poker game (What a moron). No other sport or activity is like poker. In every other event, people know where they stand from the onset of their game. Even really good hoops players know that there could be several better players.
You mean there is luck in poker? I thought whenever these suckouts occur that the other player was just better than me. Or that's what they like to say anyways.
People that hit those 2 outers can really play. The only difference between most players and Ivey, Negreanu, Brunson is luck, right?
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You mean there is luck in poker? I thought whenever these suckouts occur that the other player was just better than me. Or that's what they like to say anyways.
People that hit those 2 outers can really play. The only difference between most players and Ivey, Negreanu, Brunson is luck, right?
MoneyMaker won the big one and hasn't been heard from since. And if you watched that tournament the guy got incredibly lucky. Same with Jamie Gold. These guys just caught cards the whole friggin tournament.
When I won tournaments online I know for a fact I luck out on like 4 or 5 hands along the way.
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MoneyMaker won the big one and hasn't been heard from since. And if you watched that tournament the guy got incredibly lucky. Same with Jamie Gold. These guys just caught cards the whole friggin tournament.
When I won tournaments online I know for a fact I luck out on like 4 or 5 hands along the way.
If it's all luck, then why are people liken Dan N., Ivey, Hellmuth, etc. all making millions at the tables and your buddy is scrambling so he can play in the High Stakes game? If it was that simple, why not just have someone bankroll him and he'd be off and running to his millions?
Luck evens out over time. Pros get their money in with the best of it more consistently then the non-pros. They also almost never miss a bet and GENERALLY get the most value from their hands.
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If it's all luck, then why are people liken Dan N., Ivey, Hellmuth, etc. all making millions at the tables and your buddy is scrambling so he can play in the High Stakes game? If it was that simple, why not just have someone bankroll him and he'd be off and running to his millions?
Luck evens out over time. Pros get their money in with the best of it more consistently then the non-pros. They also almost never miss a bet and GENERALLY get the most value from their hands.
Greyhound, you are so uninformed on the poker scene and just plain dont know what you are talking about. Just off the top of my head i know that hellmuth placed top 30s in the 2003 wsop main event, and he got out because a guy rivered a jack with JJ vs his QQ in an all in preflop. Thats a lack of skill?
He is a baby and a terrible cash game player but 10 bracelets speaks for itself?
You dont need luck after every single card is dealt, ever heard of firing 3 bullets and taking it down, i guess you are lucky that they dont hit anything to call you with, but i guess with that mentality, poker really is all luck.
"Man you are lucky that i didnt hit that river, i totally wouldve called you", thats what kind of player i see you as.
Of course there is some luck involved, hell you did mention that moneymaker and Gold won. But also make note of how many pros are still making it late into tournaments, who did moneymaker play heads up for his bracelet? Who Was that at the final table with Jamie Gold and was that not Humberto, Prahlad, and i believe lisandro right there in the final 45? Didnt Arieh make the final table with Fossilman too? Even Mike Matusow pulled out the final table the year Hachem won. These guys must be the most consistantly lucky guys to play poker.
Finally, the points hutch makes are dead on, the ability to get your money in consistently with the best of it is what separates the pros from the good players. You may have gotten lucky to win a couple tournaments early on but lets see how many you continue to win over the years.
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Greyhound, you are so uninformed on the poker scene and just plain dont know what you are talking about. Just off the top of my head i know that hellmuth placed top 30s in the 2003 wsop main event, and he got out because a guy rivered a jack with JJ vs his QQ in an all in preflop. Thats a lack of skill?
He is a baby and a terrible cash game player but 10 bracelets speaks for itself?
You dont need luck after every single card is dealt, ever heard of firing 3 bullets and taking it down, i guess you are lucky that they dont hit anything to call you with, but i guess with that mentality, poker really is all luck.
"Man you are lucky that i didnt hit that river, i totally wouldve called you", thats what kind of player i see you as.
Of course there is some luck involved, hell you did mention that moneymaker and Gold won. But also make note of how many pros are still making it late into tournaments, who did moneymaker play heads up for his bracelet? Who Was that at the final table with Jamie Gold and was that not Humberto, Prahlad, and i believe lisandro right there in the final 45? Didnt Arieh make the final table with Fossilman too? Even Mike Matusow pulled out the final table the year Hachem won. These guys must be the most consistantly lucky guys to play poker.
Finally, the points hutch makes are dead on, the ability to get your money in consistently with the best of it is what separates the pros from the good players. You may have gotten lucky to win a couple tournaments early on but lets see how many you continue to win over the years.
You can believe what you want. I said 25 % skill, and 75 % luck. I'll stick by that.
Moneymaker had never played in a live tournament before he won the World Series of Poker. He went from playing a Satellite tourney on Poker Stars to World Series of Poker champ.
How about this guy Steve Dentenman that finished second to Hachem? That guy was playing in a home game in Ohio before he finished second.
If it's mostly skill why has Johnny Chan disappeared from the Winner's Circle for the most part?
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You can believe what you want. I said 25 % skill, and 75 % luck. I'll stick by that.
Moneymaker had never played in a live tournament before he won the World Series of Poker. He went from playing a Satellite tourney on Poker Stars to World Series of Poker champ.
How about this guy Steve Dentenman that finished second to Hachem? That guy was playing in a home game in Ohio before he finished second.
If it's mostly skill why has Johnny Chan disappeared from the Winner's Circle for the most part?
Of course there is some luck involved like i said earlier....
As for Johnny Chan, off the top of my head i remember him winning his 10th vs Laak heads up in a limit tournament. He also has been seen on high stakes poker, and he is still participating in the heads up shoot outs on w/e network that is as well as the pokersuperstars show.
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Of course there is some luck involved like i said earlier....
As for Johnny Chan, off the top of my head i remember him winning his 10th vs Laak heads up in a limit tournament. He also has been seen on high stakes poker, and he is still participating in the heads up shoot outs on w/e network that is as well as the pokersuperstars show.
Its one of the few games where someone can think they are great. You remember the bad beats, but not the lucky turns or rivers you might get so you think you are being sucked out on all the time. You can be lucky and catch cards and win a major tourny and not be that good of a play (moneymaker). Most of us arent going to outslug david ortiz or beat tiger in match play no matter how lucky we get. Its as simple as that.
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Its one of the few games where someone can think they are great. You remember the bad beats, but not the lucky turns or rivers you might get so you think you are being sucked out on all the time. You can be lucky and catch cards and win a major tourny and not be that good of a play (moneymaker). Most of us arent going to outslug david ortiz or beat tiger in match play no matter how lucky we get. Its as simple as that.
There is a lot of luck involved in tournaments, these older pros like Chan, Brunson, Helmuth etc. they were destroying tournaments when there was only 130 buying in. Now you get to any $10,000 tournament and there is 1000 or more people playing.
That Ferguson quote is right on too, good players know how to take advantage of situations and they know when to fold a hand. While a bad player doesn't know enough about the game to take advantage of certain situations or how to get all the money in pot.
People think they are so good at the game because it is so easy to learn but they don't know that it's not just about the cards.
I consider myself a decent player but I'm no pro, I still get outplayed sometimes and I'm always trying to learn more. The more I play the more I respect the pro's, it's not easy all the time. I play mostly 50NL online and when I see someone bragging about how good they are I remind them what limit they are playing. If you're playing 50NL you are no pro.
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There is a lot of luck involved in tournaments, these older pros like Chan, Brunson, Helmuth etc. they were destroying tournaments when there was only 130 buying in. Now you get to any $10,000 tournament and there is 1000 or more people playing.
That Ferguson quote is right on too, good players know how to take advantage of situations and they know when to fold a hand. While a bad player doesn't know enough about the game to take advantage of certain situations or how to get all the money in pot.
People think they are so good at the game because it is so easy to learn but they don't know that it's not just about the cards.
I consider myself a decent player but I'm no pro, I still get outplayed sometimes and I'm always trying to learn more. The more I play the more I respect the pro's, it's not easy all the time. I play mostly 50NL online and when I see someone bragging about how good they are I remind them what limit they are playing. If you're playing 50NL you are no pro.
The best poker players are the ones who win consistently in cash games. Any moron can get hit in the face with the deck in a tournament and win. The best poker players win consistently in cash games. Maybe not so much in tourneys as luck is more important during the ak vs pocket tens race but luck is not as much of a factor in a cash game. That is why if you ask many pros who the best player in the world is they will say Chip Reese. How many tourneys has he cashed in for?? Not many
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The best poker players are the ones who win consistently in cash games. Any moron can get hit in the face with the deck in a tournament and win. The best poker players win consistently in cash games. Maybe not so much in tourneys as luck is more important during the ak vs pocket tens race but luck is not as much of a factor in a cash game. That is why if you ask many pros who the best player in the world is they will say Chip Reese. How many tourneys has he cashed in for?? Not many
Greyhound, you are so uninformed on the poker scene and just plain dont know what you are talking about. Just off the top of my head i know that hellmuth placed top 30s in the 2003 wsop main event, and he got out because a guy rivered a jack with JJ vs his QQ in an all in preflop. Thats a lack of skill?
He is a baby and a terrible cash game player but 10 bracelets speaks for itself?
You dont need luck after every single card is dealt, ever heard of firing 3 bullets and taking it down, i guess you are lucky that they dont hit anything to call you with, but i guess with that mentality, poker really is all luck.
"Man you are lucky that i didnt hit that river, i totally wouldve called you", thats what kind of player i see you as.
Of course there is some luck involved, hell you did mention that moneymaker and Gold won. But also make note of how many pros are still making it late into tournaments, who did moneymaker play heads up for his bracelet? Who Was that at the final table with Jamie Gold and was that not Humberto, Prahlad, and i believe lisandro right there in the final 45? Didnt Arieh make the final table with Fossilman too? Even Mike Matusow pulled out the final table the year Hachem won. These guys must be the most consistantly lucky guys to play poker.
Finally, the points hutch makes are dead on, the ability to get your money in consistently with the best of it is what separates the pros from the good players. You may have gotten lucky to win a couple tournaments early on but lets see how many you continue to win over the years.
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Quote Originally Posted by spoondiggidy9:
Greyhound, you are so uninformed on the poker scene and just plain dont know what you are talking about. Just off the top of my head i know that hellmuth placed top 30s in the 2003 wsop main event, and he got out because a guy rivered a jack with JJ vs his QQ in an all in preflop. Thats a lack of skill?
He is a baby and a terrible cash game player but 10 bracelets speaks for itself?
You dont need luck after every single card is dealt, ever heard of firing 3 bullets and taking it down, i guess you are lucky that they dont hit anything to call you with, but i guess with that mentality, poker really is all luck.
"Man you are lucky that i didnt hit that river, i totally wouldve called you", thats what kind of player i see you as.
Of course there is some luck involved, hell you did mention that moneymaker and Gold won. But also make note of how many pros are still making it late into tournaments, who did moneymaker play heads up for his bracelet? Who Was that at the final table with Jamie Gold and was that not Humberto, Prahlad, and i believe lisandro right there in the final 45? Didnt Arieh make the final table with Fossilman too? Even Mike Matusow pulled out the final table the year Hachem won. These guys must be the most consistantly lucky guys to play poker.
Finally, the points hutch makes are dead on, the ability to get your money in consistently with the best of it is what separates the pros from the good players. You may have gotten lucky to win a couple tournaments early on but lets see how many you continue to win over the years.
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