the line around some poker tables

I got into a heated discussion about poker tables that have lines around them and those that don't.IMO I believe in the forward motion rule which usually eliminates having to have a line around a table which kind of forces players to break the plane of the goal line so to speak.Other players were so set in their ways about the line solving intimidation betting where I believe it also creates just as much controversy about how many chips actually went over the line or someone apparently calls but didn't place all  their chips entirely across the line.As far as I know WSOP doesn't use lines and I've played in casinos in 35 different states and can't remember to many of them having lines on the table.It's mostly amateur run places that I've run into this.

Here is the situation that created the controversy .

Keep in mind this table had no lines.No limit

Three players left at the table ,first player takes both hands and pushes all his chips forward a few inches ,2nd player who happens to be low stack reacts by announcing all in and then proceeds to bet all their chips.3rd player then folds,then the all in player flips his cards over and as soon as the first player realizes they're beat folds and says I never said all in.Dealer says I thought you were all in,but because there is no line and no forward motion rule allows the 1st player to pull all their chips back.Again IMO if the player that was short stacked didn't have to flip their cards over how can the 1st player still be allowed to fold after 2 players acted.

Thus everyone saying if we had a line around the table that would eliminate the problem,where I disagree.Because you could have a player  in the right position grab a stack of chips and not cross the line to get a reaction or try to get players to fold to win a hand.Or in another circumstance if a player makes a bet and another player partially pushes some chips over the line without verbally saying anything it should not be left up to the dealer to decide what chips are in or not.3rd case would be a player bets,next player apparently calls by placing the called bet behind the line with other players still to act. 

 

What is your opion on this?

Suddendeath, the line rule is ok, but the bottom line it's the dealers responsibility to keep the game going, and the players responsibility to KNOW the guy hadn't made a legal bet at the table.  I ask the floorman EVERY time i go to a new room what the rule is on that, and the betting out of turn rule.  Furthermore in cash games the players don't have to show their hands right away so the all in player should have made sure it was a legal bet.

I get what you are saying and yes it drives me crazy, but their are shady players and YOU MUST PROTECT yourself.

Thanks for the input....

Pushing chips forward is a bullshit move, but as long as they dont go in front of your hole cards its legal.

The moron that turned up the cards is at fault he blew it.I agree a forward push is a BS move but player 2 needed to ask player 1 what is your bet. I completely agree with the line it eliminates any question.

How do you not have a line and at the same time not have the forward motion rule ? gotta have one or the other. Rules dictate that you cant do anything to get a action or reaction from another player so there is only one move when you push your entire stack forward, ALL IN. anything outside of that is bullshit and angle shooting. And if a player tosses chips forward and only some go across the line, then INTENT would certainly come into play.all chips released from the players hand are considered a bet. 

if you grab chips and set them down forward just shy of the line is obviously betting, your looking at the line rule in black and white. the line rule gives players room to count out chips seperate from their stack and at the same time allows them to keep their cards protected even if the chips move past their hand. alot of rules are not black and white.