playing in a local cash game last night..after the flop 2 people go all-in, i call with open ended straight and 4 to the nut flush..other guys have 2 pair and smaller flush draw..just about a 400 dollar pot...turn is a blank, i am yelling for a club on the river for my nut flush..6 of clubs on the river..guy with 2 pair says "shit" and mucks his cards..i start to rake the nice pot when another guy at the table chimes in and says,,"hey, didnt you have a full house" to the guy with 2 pair...he pulls his cards out of the muck and says "you are right" and claims the pot as his - what would you say the outcome of this should be???
thanks
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playing in a local cash game last night..after the flop 2 people go all-in, i call with open ended straight and 4 to the nut flush..other guys have 2 pair and smaller flush draw..just about a 400 dollar pot...turn is a blank, i am yelling for a club on the river for my nut flush..6 of clubs on the river..guy with 2 pair says "shit" and mucks his cards..i start to rake the nice pot when another guy at the table chimes in and says,,"hey, didnt you have a full house" to the guy with 2 pair...he pulls his cards out of the muck and says "you are right" and claims the pot as his - what would you say the outcome of this should be???
if you all turned your cards up then the cards "speak for themselves", so even if he mucked he wins the hand. Every place has different rules but this is the common ruling. It is wierd that he would muck though as he must have already had a pair of 6's with his 2 pair.
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if you all turned your cards up then the cards "speak for themselves", so even if he mucked he wins the hand. Every place has different rules but this is the common ruling. It is wierd that he would muck though as he must have already had a pair of 6's with his 2 pair.
if you all turned your cards up then the cards "speak for themselves", so even if he mucked he wins the hand. Every place has different rules but this is the common ruling. It is wierd that he would muck though as he must have already had a pair of 6's with his 2 pair.
Were the cards all turned up? I did not realize if you muck your cards you can pull them out, how do you know he even pulled right cards out if they went into muck. Also I think the third guy should have kept his mouth shut. I would have thought if you mucked, your hand is dead, in cash you of course do not have to show cards. I would have thought if was your pot, godfather I think disagrees I I do not know for sure) I will tell you what I can do, I am at Bellagio I will ask poker manager today and get his ruling. If you can be a little clearer as to if cards were up on felt please do so. I will ask tonite
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Quote Originally Posted by Godfather16:
if you all turned your cards up then the cards "speak for themselves", so even if he mucked he wins the hand. Every place has different rules but this is the common ruling. It is wierd that he would muck though as he must have already had a pair of 6's with his 2 pair.
Were the cards all turned up? I did not realize if you muck your cards you can pull them out, how do you know he even pulled right cards out if they went into muck. Also I think the third guy should have kept his mouth shut. I would have thought if you mucked, your hand is dead, in cash you of course do not have to show cards. I would have thought if was your pot, godfather I think disagrees I I do not know for sure) I will tell you what I can do, I am at Bellagio I will ask poker manager today and get his ruling. If you can be a little clearer as to if cards were up on felt please do so. I will ask tonite
Usually when the cards are thrown face up, the cards speak(usually the case anywhere I have played) However, if they hit the muck face down, hand is dead....
But I do think at foxwoods once, the guy threw his cards upward n the muck and lost the hand.
Bottom line for me, if the guy is too stupid too realize he won a pot, he shouldn't be allowed to:)
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Usually when the cards are thrown face up, the cards speak(usually the case anywhere I have played) However, if they hit the muck face down, hand is dead....
But I do think at foxwoods once, the guy threw his cards upward n the muck and lost the hand.
Bottom line for me, if the guy is too stupid too realize he won a pot, he shouldn't be allowed to:)
Usually when the cards are thrown face up, the cards speak(usually the case anywhere I have played) However, if they hit the muck face down, hand is dead....
But I do think at foxwoods once, the guy threw his cards upward n the muck and lost the hand.
Bottom line for me, if the guy is too stupid too realize he won a pot, he shouldn't be allowed to:)
Jimmy and godfather were both for more right on this one then I would have been....
I just spoke to a poker room supervisor at the bellagio. For you guys who know Bellagio it was Mr. D anyway I told him all three hands were face up, and a player mucked the winning hand after the river.
He said to me "were his cards retrievable?" I asked him to explain....He said "if the cards went into the much but did not get mixed in the muck and it was clear which two cards were his then they are live again and he wins pot if he has best hand"
I was surprised, sounds like jimmy and godfather both would have been correct.
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Quote Originally Posted by JimmyKid:
Usually when the cards are thrown face up, the cards speak(usually the case anywhere I have played) However, if they hit the muck face down, hand is dead....
But I do think at foxwoods once, the guy threw his cards upward n the muck and lost the hand.
Bottom line for me, if the guy is too stupid too realize he won a pot, he shouldn't be allowed to:)
Jimmy and godfather were both for more right on this one then I would have been....
I just spoke to a poker room supervisor at the bellagio. For you guys who know Bellagio it was Mr. D anyway I told him all three hands were face up, and a player mucked the winning hand after the river.
He said to me "were his cards retrievable?" I asked him to explain....He said "if the cards went into the much but did not get mixed in the muck and it was clear which two cards were his then they are live again and he wins pot if he has best hand"
I was surprised, sounds like jimmy and godfather both would have been correct.
If the cards were face up it's legit. If they where not (they should of been if everyone was all-in) and you muck your hand then that means your out, you lost. Even if it was a mistake, you can't go back on it. Technically you ended your hand when you mucked your cards.
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If the cards were face up it's legit. If they where not (they should of been if everyone was all-in) and you muck your hand then that means your out, you lost. Even if it was a mistake, you can't go back on it. Technically you ended your hand when you mucked your cards.
it will also depend on the floorman's decision as that can be differnt with each guy and so you never now, I have seen a lot of different decisions and interpretations from place to place. Like when they say "if the cards are retrievable", that can be interpreted differently.
I saw in a tourney last week a guy had way the best hand, flipped up his cards, and one of them landed face down on the "Burn" card, and the opponent was screaming that it was a dead hand, but there was only 1 burn card, and actually the burn card should have had a chip on it but didn't as the dealer was incompetant. The opponent kept telling the floor man that the card hit the muck, and I, in the interest of fairness, pointed out that the card hit the burn card and the guy ruled the hand was live. But someone easily could have ruled it dead too.
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it will also depend on the floorman's decision as that can be differnt with each guy and so you never now, I have seen a lot of different decisions and interpretations from place to place. Like when they say "if the cards are retrievable", that can be interpreted differently.
I saw in a tourney last week a guy had way the best hand, flipped up his cards, and one of them landed face down on the "Burn" card, and the opponent was screaming that it was a dead hand, but there was only 1 burn card, and actually the burn card should have had a chip on it but didn't as the dealer was incompetant. The opponent kept telling the floor man that the card hit the muck, and I, in the interest of fairness, pointed out that the card hit the burn card and the guy ruled the hand was live. But someone easily could have ruled it dead too.
I have seen people in their excitement throw the cards down hard on a showdown and have one slip into the muck. This has cost them the pot as the cards were not retrievable. I turn my hand up with a chip on it(the tip) and never give them in until i get the pot. Its a good habit to get into. I had a dealer argue with me to give him the cards, and i kept telling him to give me the pot first.
My brother ran into a similar situation as this. I was not at the table so telling the story second hand. He was on a draw against a player who had been tilting. The river did not help my brother but scared the guy on tilt. My brother checked and the guy said "do not tell me you just made two pair" or something to that effect and checked and my brother said sorry, as if he did hit and before my brother could do anything the guy mucked in disgust. My brother turned over nothing and was taking the pot. The dealer fished the cards from the muck and turned them over and awarded the guy the pot with his pair. To me if the cards were not turned up by the player and they hit the muck they should not have been turned up by the dealer.
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I have seen people in their excitement throw the cards down hard on a showdown and have one slip into the muck. This has cost them the pot as the cards were not retrievable. I turn my hand up with a chip on it(the tip) and never give them in until i get the pot. Its a good habit to get into. I had a dealer argue with me to give him the cards, and i kept telling him to give me the pot first.
My brother ran into a similar situation as this. I was not at the table so telling the story second hand. He was on a draw against a player who had been tilting. The river did not help my brother but scared the guy on tilt. My brother checked and the guy said "do not tell me you just made two pair" or something to that effect and checked and my brother said sorry, as if he did hit and before my brother could do anything the guy mucked in disgust. My brother turned over nothing and was taking the pot. The dealer fished the cards from the muck and turned them over and awarded the guy the pot with his pair. To me if the cards were not turned up by the player and they hit the muck they should not have been turned up by the dealer.
If the cards are mucked, he loses. My friend had a hand where everyone was all-in after the turn. He had the nuts and the other player was drawing dead. After seeing this, my friend tossed his cards away. Since there was 1 more card to come, he lost because after the river he had no cards. NEVER THROW YOUR CARDS INTO THE MUCK. If you do before you collect the chips, you will lose.
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If the cards are mucked, he loses. My friend had a hand where everyone was all-in after the turn. He had the nuts and the other player was drawing dead. After seeing this, my friend tossed his cards away. Since there was 1 more card to come, he lost because after the river he had no cards. NEVER THROW YOUR CARDS INTO THE MUCK. If you do before you collect the chips, you will lose.
If the cards were face down when they hit the muck the hand is dead. If another player not in the hand asks to see the mucked cards and they find it was the winning hand, the hand is still dead. If the cards were face up before they hit the muck then the cards speak and the hand is live.
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If the cards were face down when they hit the muck the hand is dead. If another player not in the hand asks to see the mucked cards and they find it was the winning hand, the hand is still dead. If the cards were face up before they hit the muck then the cards speak and the hand is live.
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