as a corporate pilot back in the 1970's, it was always our fear that the flight operation would become a political football. classic was the first "oil shock" back then when I was flying for a "seven sisters" oil company out of Pittsburgh. we flew the chairman up to Toronto in our Gulfstream II for a meeting with our Canadian subsidiary and he ended up being questioned by some local news people also. saw a tape the "presentation" later where the ending was him boarding the Gulfsteam, which looks like a freeking airliner on TV, and it was a total corporate embarrassment.
a month later, the Gulfstream and our little Sabreliner "grocery getter" were GONE along with half the jobs in the flight department. they kept the two Lockheed Jetstar 731's which were not as "ostentatious" as the Gulfstream.
btw, IF GM CEO Rick Wagoner is like any other CEO I used to fly years ago, he travels with at least 4 to 5 staff so you can add THAT seat cost to "airline travel" PLUS the cost of his time which, IF it was billed like a law firm, is worth thousands of dollars per hour.
btw, this is NOT to justify companies like AIG using their corporate jets for "junkets" without being reimbursed by the bosses using them for non-business "Holidays in the Sun" like their partridge shooting trip to Scotland.
I also agree somewhat with Grego about the use of Air Force "SAM" aircraft BUT find it interesting that NO right winger was carping about Bush flying around domestic in a B747 gas guzzler when he could have used either a B757 or Gulfstream V for most of his domestic travel.
IF Obama is smart he will NOT use "The Whale" for domestic trips.
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as a corporate pilot back in the 1970's, it was always our fear that the flight operation would become a political football. classic was the first "oil shock" back then when I was flying for a "seven sisters" oil company out of Pittsburgh. we flew the chairman up to Toronto in our Gulfstream II for a meeting with our Canadian subsidiary and he ended up being questioned by some local news people also. saw a tape the "presentation" later where the ending was him boarding the Gulfsteam, which looks like a freeking airliner on TV, and it was a total corporate embarrassment.
a month later, the Gulfstream and our little Sabreliner "grocery getter" were GONE along with half the jobs in the flight department. they kept the two Lockheed Jetstar 731's which were not as "ostentatious" as the Gulfstream.
btw, IF GM CEO Rick Wagoner is like any other CEO I used to fly years ago, he travels with at least 4 to 5 staff so you can add THAT seat cost to "airline travel" PLUS the cost of his time which, IF it was billed like a law firm, is worth thousands of dollars per hour.
btw, this is NOT to justify companies like AIG using their corporate jets for "junkets" without being reimbursed by the bosses using them for non-business "Holidays in the Sun" like their partridge shooting trip to Scotland.
I also agree somewhat with Grego about the use of Air Force "SAM" aircraft BUT find it interesting that NO right winger was carping about Bush flying around domestic in a B747 gas guzzler when he could have used either a B757 or Gulfstream V for most of his domestic travel.
IF Obama is smart he will NOT use "The Whale" for domestic trips.
as a corporate pilot back in the 1970's, it was always our fear that the flight operation would become a political football. classic was the first "oil shock" back then when I was flying for a "seven sisters" oil company out of Pittsburgh. we flew the chairman up to Toronto in our Gulfstream II for a meeting with our Canadian subsidiary and he ended up being questioned by some local news people also. saw a tape the "presentation" later where the ending was him boarding the Gulfsteam, which looks like a freeking airliner on TV, and it was a total corporate embarrassment.
a month later, the Gulfstream and our little Sabreliner "grocery getter" were GONE along with half the jobs in the flight department. they kept the two Lockheed Jetstar 731's which were not as "ostentatious" as the Gulfstream.
btw, IF GM CEO Rick Wagoner is like any other CEO I used to fly years ago, he travels with at least 4 to 5 staff so you can add THAT seat cost to "airline travel" PLUS the cost of his time which, IF it was billed like a law firm, is worth thousands of dollars per hour.
btw, this is NOT to justify companies like AIG using their corporate jets for "junkets" without being reimbursed by the bosses using them for non-business "Holidays in the Sun" like their partridge shooting trip to Scotland.
I also agree somewhat with Grego about the use of Air Force "SAM" aircraft BUT find it interesting that NO right winger was carping about Bush flying around domestic in a B747 gas guzzler when he could have used either a B757 or Gulfstream V for most of his domestic travel.
IF Obama is smart he will NOT use "The Whale" for domestic trips.
Rat, I usually agree with you 100 percent on things but your wrong about the President's plane. You cant have the President of the United States flying around on lear jets. There is tons of reasons why he needs to be on Air force one no matter how much it costs. This isnt a democrat or republican thing either. If McCain won, i would want him on air force one also.
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Quote Originally Posted by LeRinkRat:
as a corporate pilot back in the 1970's, it was always our fear that the flight operation would become a political football. classic was the first "oil shock" back then when I was flying for a "seven sisters" oil company out of Pittsburgh. we flew the chairman up to Toronto in our Gulfstream II for a meeting with our Canadian subsidiary and he ended up being questioned by some local news people also. saw a tape the "presentation" later where the ending was him boarding the Gulfsteam, which looks like a freeking airliner on TV, and it was a total corporate embarrassment.
a month later, the Gulfstream and our little Sabreliner "grocery getter" were GONE along with half the jobs in the flight department. they kept the two Lockheed Jetstar 731's which were not as "ostentatious" as the Gulfstream.
btw, IF GM CEO Rick Wagoner is like any other CEO I used to fly years ago, he travels with at least 4 to 5 staff so you can add THAT seat cost to "airline travel" PLUS the cost of his time which, IF it was billed like a law firm, is worth thousands of dollars per hour.
btw, this is NOT to justify companies like AIG using their corporate jets for "junkets" without being reimbursed by the bosses using them for non-business "Holidays in the Sun" like their partridge shooting trip to Scotland.
I also agree somewhat with Grego about the use of Air Force "SAM" aircraft BUT find it interesting that NO right winger was carping about Bush flying around domestic in a B747 gas guzzler when he could have used either a B757 or Gulfstream V for most of his domestic travel.
IF Obama is smart he will NOT use "The Whale" for domestic trips.
Rat, I usually agree with you 100 percent on things but your wrong about the President's plane. You cant have the President of the United States flying around on lear jets. There is tons of reasons why he needs to be on Air force one no matter how much it costs. This isnt a democrat or republican thing either. If McCain won, i would want him on air force one also.
While Wagoner testified, his G4 private jet was parked at Dulles airport. It is one of eight luxury jets in the GM fleet that continues to ferry executives around the world despite the company's dire financial straits.
Another reason to not give GM a Bail-out..Let them sell off a hand full of the Jets,and get the UAW to consent to getting rid of the Big 3's Job banks that cost 3/4 B a yr.,then come back with your hat in your hand asking for the hand-out.
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While Wagoner testified, his G4 private jet was parked at Dulles airport. It is one of eight luxury jets in the GM fleet that continues to ferry executives around the world despite the company's dire financial straits.
Another reason to not give GM a Bail-out..Let them sell off a hand full of the Jets,and get the UAW to consent to getting rid of the Big 3's Job banks that cost 3/4 B a yr.,then come back with your hat in your hand asking for the hand-out.
You cant have the President of the United States flying around on lear jets.
you obviously don't know aircraft types because NO one is saying he should fly around in a Lear Jet "grocery getter". the Air Force "Special Air Missions" (SAM) Boeing 757's are large twin engine airliner conversions that most Cabinet department heads, like the Sec of State, use for international travel while the Gulfstream V is one of the largest of the corporate jets and also has international capability. BOTH are AS safe OR SAFER for domestic travel than that Boeing 747 "Whale" BUT much more fuel efficient.
btw, ANY Air Force aircraft that has the President of the United States on board is designated "Air Force One" no matter WHICH type it is. also ANY Marine helicopter the President uses is designated "Marine One" and when Bush road aboard that Navy S-3 Viking sea control aircraft to the USS Abraham Lincoln for his now infamous "mission accomplished" speech, that was designated "Navy One".
when the VP is aboard, the designation is "Air Force (or whatever service) Two"
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You cant have the President of the United States flying around on lear jets.
you obviously don't know aircraft types because NO one is saying he should fly around in a Lear Jet "grocery getter". the Air Force "Special Air Missions" (SAM) Boeing 757's are large twin engine airliner conversions that most Cabinet department heads, like the Sec of State, use for international travel while the Gulfstream V is one of the largest of the corporate jets and also has international capability. BOTH are AS safe OR SAFER for domestic travel than that Boeing 747 "Whale" BUT much more fuel efficient.
btw, ANY Air Force aircraft that has the President of the United States on board is designated "Air Force One" no matter WHICH type it is. also ANY Marine helicopter the President uses is designated "Marine One" and when Bush road aboard that Navy S-3 Viking sea control aircraft to the USS Abraham Lincoln for his now infamous "mission accomplished" speech, that was designated "Navy One".
when the VP is aboard, the designation is "Air Force (or whatever service) Two"
The big three execs are soooo out of touch its unreal - almost as much as our fine senators... talk about the kettle calling the pot black.
I used to work at Toyota. I got to know and worked with many of the TOP execs in the company in the USA. They all owned nice houses - but nothing extravagant. They all drove their Camry or Avalon to work. They all flew commercial - although I'm sure it was 1st class. Their salaries were in line - but I know some would bark to hear that they made 300K or more. They did not get millions in bonuses.
This was all during the "roaring 90's" when the company could afford to do about anything they deemed necessary. Toyota had over $40B in the bank CASH. They were and are self funding for all capital expansions.
The difference of how that differs to the big 3 are amazing. I agree with Romney in that the US automakers MUST be forced to reorganize under a totally different model. The really sad part is that the same logic should have been applied to the banking industry. They are way out of touch and need to fail. They will eventually, just far after they have burned through $1TRILLION of tax dollars.
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The big three execs are soooo out of touch its unreal - almost as much as our fine senators... talk about the kettle calling the pot black.
I used to work at Toyota. I got to know and worked with many of the TOP execs in the company in the USA. They all owned nice houses - but nothing extravagant. They all drove their Camry or Avalon to work. They all flew commercial - although I'm sure it was 1st class. Their salaries were in line - but I know some would bark to hear that they made 300K or more. They did not get millions in bonuses.
This was all during the "roaring 90's" when the company could afford to do about anything they deemed necessary. Toyota had over $40B in the bank CASH. They were and are self funding for all capital expansions.
The difference of how that differs to the big 3 are amazing. I agree with Romney in that the US automakers MUST be forced to reorganize under a totally different model. The really sad part is that the same logic should have been applied to the banking industry. They are way out of touch and need to fail. They will eventually, just far after they have burned through $1TRILLION of tax dollars.
While Wagoner testified, his G4 private jet was parked at Dulles airport. It is one of eight luxury jets in the GM fleet that continues to ferry executives around the world despite the company's dire financial straits.
Another reason to not give GM a Bail-out..Let them sell off a hand full of the Jets,and get the UAW to consent to getting rid of the Big 3's Job banks that cost 3/4 B a yr.,then come back with your hat in your hand asking for the hand-out.
Great point as usual Sarasota. I am quickly seeing that you, KOAJ,Apache are among the most astute in this forum.
I voted for Ron Paul because I was afraid of Sarah Palin, but when she became Governor of Alaska, didn't she sell a plane to help the budget. Maybe the Auto industry and the UAW need to hire Sarah Palin to help them with finances
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Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:
While Wagoner testified, his G4 private jet was parked at Dulles airport. It is one of eight luxury jets in the GM fleet that continues to ferry executives around the world despite the company's dire financial straits.
Another reason to not give GM a Bail-out..Let them sell off a hand full of the Jets,and get the UAW to consent to getting rid of the Big 3's Job banks that cost 3/4 B a yr.,then come back with your hat in your hand asking for the hand-out.
Great point as usual Sarasota. I am quickly seeing that you, KOAJ,Apache are among the most astute in this forum.
I voted for Ron Paul because I was afraid of Sarah Palin, but when she became Governor of Alaska, didn't she sell a plane to help the budget. Maybe the Auto industry and the UAW need to hire Sarah Palin to help them with finances
I'm not sure she sold the jet to help the budget as much to send the right message. Whatever the true reasoning was, her actions should be applauded... her constituents agree with a 80% approval ratiing.
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I'm not sure she sold the jet to help the budget as much to send the right message. Whatever the true reasoning was, her actions should be applauded... her constituents agree with a 80% approval ratiing.
Maybe the Auto industry and the UAW need to hire Sarah Palin to help them with finances
might work IF she can get the "Five Families" oil companies to bankroll them like the State of Alaska, which is THE most socialist state in America.
btw, Caribou Barbie's rating is 68%. still high compared to most of the lower 48 (hey, who wouldn't be popular passing out free oil patch money?) BUT that's not 80%.
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Maybe the Auto industry and the UAW need to hire Sarah Palin to help them with finances
might work IF she can get the "Five Families" oil companies to bankroll them like the State of Alaska, which is THE most socialist state in America.
btw, Caribou Barbie's rating is 68%. still high compared to most of the lower 48 (hey, who wouldn't be popular passing out free oil patch money?) BUT that's not 80%.
bleeding billions per month and they take private jets
at least they used them for business instead of "flying 'cross the sea. to shoot partridge in pear trees. with the cash they got for free. LIKE..... AIG...AIG...AIG...AIG"
(to the music of the Pistols "EMI")
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bleeding billions per month and they take private jets
at least they used them for business instead of "flying 'cross the sea. to shoot partridge in pear trees. with the cash they got for free. LIKE..... AIG...AIG...AIG...AIG"
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