Marquez can win, his game plan will have to play to frustrate Pacquiao into trying to slug, then countering and tying him up. If Pacquiao sticks to boxing and trades when the oppotunities there, Marquez will end up losing. The fight going the distance is likely, I don't expect this fight to start very fast as many might think. More likely it's stopped it will be do to a cut, or stoppage from eye swelling. Pacquiao vs Barrera II was slow because Barrera just didn't want to take any chances so the fight was boring. I think Pacquiao fought smart and just won on the outside with his hand speed and ability, and didn't try to bull over Barrera. Marquez vs Barrera was a close fight, I didn't think Marquez won it by the margins they scored it. He was easier than usual for Barrera to hit. Marquez is such a calculating fighter, but he does have that tendency to want to trade punches (because usually he is the more accurate puncher, has a strong punch, and is always in proper stance), but against Pacquiao he won't over do it. I think he will trade a few, then move circular. Moving backwards against Pacquiao's straight left is dangerous, and will result in the first round of their initial fight.
The-Ionizer
I think we see a distance fight also either way. Agree on the Barrera fight, you really can't take anything from his fight with Pac. He was there to survive and retire; he was so gun shy. Barrera came to win against Marquez and I agreed with the cards (I had it 116-111 also). The only way you score that fight very close is if you let the HBO crew's Barrera nuthugging affect your scorecard.
You are right on with the statement that JMM doesn't need to move straight back and I think he knows that better than anyone. You will see a lot of lateral movement from JMM Saturday night.
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Quote Originally Posted by The-Ionizer:
Marquez can win, his game plan will have to play to frustrate Pacquiao into trying to slug, then countering and tying him up. If Pacquiao sticks to boxing and trades when the oppotunities there, Marquez will end up losing. The fight going the distance is likely, I don't expect this fight to start very fast as many might think. More likely it's stopped it will be do to a cut, or stoppage from eye swelling. Pacquiao vs Barrera II was slow because Barrera just didn't want to take any chances so the fight was boring. I think Pacquiao fought smart and just won on the outside with his hand speed and ability, and didn't try to bull over Barrera. Marquez vs Barrera was a close fight, I didn't think Marquez won it by the margins they scored it. He was easier than usual for Barrera to hit. Marquez is such a calculating fighter, but he does have that tendency to want to trade punches (because usually he is the more accurate puncher, has a strong punch, and is always in proper stance), but against Pacquiao he won't over do it. I think he will trade a few, then move circular. Moving backwards against Pacquiao's straight left is dangerous, and will result in the first round of their initial fight.
The-Ionizer
I think we see a distance fight also either way. Agree on the Barrera fight, you really can't take anything from his fight with Pac. He was there to survive and retire; he was so gun shy. Barrera came to win against Marquez and I agreed with the cards (I had it 116-111 also). The only way you score that fight very close is if you let the HBO crew's Barrera nuthugging affect your scorecard.
You are right on with the statement that JMM doesn't need to move straight back and I think he knows that better than anyone. You will see a lot of lateral movement from JMM Saturday night.
If Marquez gets any higher, it's almost a must play on value alone. I have a feeling that somewhere around rd 8, I'll be happier I'm holding a +170 or higher ticket than laying -195 or so.
Waiting to see what this line does towards the end of the week. We may see even more of a surge on Pac man as the Filipinos arrive in Vegas. Maybe we can get a few more bucks still.
This line can't go any higher can it? I won't complain.
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Quote Originally Posted by G8RB8:
Bingo for me.
If Marquez gets any higher, it's almost a must play on value alone. I have a feeling that somewhere around rd 8, I'll be happier I'm holding a +170 or higher ticket than laying -195 or so.
Waiting to see what this line does towards the end of the week. We may see even more of a surge on Pac man as the Filipinos arrive in Vegas. Maybe we can get a few more bucks still.
This line can't go any higher can it? I won't complain.
If you think this fight is going to the cards, as I do, remember three words: Golden Boy Promotions.
Ion-
In which fights have JMM's hands seemed slower to you? I think he has changed his style somewhat to be more appealing to the fans, willing to trade shots and get hit a little more, but I see no evidence that he has lost his hand speed. I'm not sure that will be his approach with Manny. He doesn't have to look spectacular, he just has to win this fight to secure his legacy. I also believe that in this style matchup, a fight that goes the distance is likely to leave an impression that JMM, the boxer, is winning.
Good to see we are on the same page.
I like where your heads at.
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Quote Originally Posted by LetMeSpin:
If you think this fight is going to the cards, as I do, remember three words: Golden Boy Promotions.
Ion-
In which fights have JMM's hands seemed slower to you? I think he has changed his style somewhat to be more appealing to the fans, willing to trade shots and get hit a little more, but I see no evidence that he has lost his hand speed. I'm not sure that will be his approach with Manny. He doesn't have to look spectacular, he just has to win this fight to secure his legacy. I also believe that in this style matchup, a fight that goes the distance is likely to leave an impression that JMM, the boxer, is winning.
I posted a thread in the Pbox, everyone is helping me get the current lines. . . It's amazing how far apart the books are on Marquez, and how similar they are on Pac Man
I posted a thread in the Pbox, everyone is helping me get the current lines. . . It's amazing how far apart the books are on Marquez, and how similar they are on Pac Man
Hand speed is typically the last thing to go as a fighter ages. I'm concerned that Marquez takes too many shots now, and that he may not have the power to really damage Pacman, but diminished hand speed? Not buying that one yet...
Hand speeds and reflexes are the first to go as a fighter ages. powers the last to go.Maybe u missed typed
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Quote Originally Posted by LetMeSpin:
Hand speed is typically the last thing to go as a fighter ages. I'm concerned that Marquez takes too many shots now, and that he may not have the power to really damage Pacman, but diminished hand speed? Not buying that one yet...
Hand speeds and reflexes are the first to go as a fighter ages. powers the last to go.Maybe u missed typed
Been shopping around for a good number on Pacquiao to win by Decision among diff books. Just noticed that the price offered for Pacquiao to Win by Dec is different from the number offered for Pacquiao to Win on Points.
What's the difference between the two? Pac to win by dec is under proposition while pac to win on points is under round betting.
Appreciate the inputs.
Thanks
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Been shopping around for a good number on Pacquiao to win by Decision among diff books. Just noticed that the price offered for Pacquiao to Win by Dec is different from the number offered for Pacquiao to Win on Points.
What's the difference between the two? Pac to win by dec is under proposition while pac to win on points is under round betting.
I agree with the sentiments here, Marquez is the play based on value alone. I have +210 pending at matchbook, hopefully some doofus plays the other side. Already played it earlier at +161 and +172.
I see a close Pac decision, but -220 is crazy. I was tempted to play the over, but a head clash and cuts are possible along with a TKO, it's not worth it. Marq KO isnt completely out of the question, neither is a draw, so Marq Dec prop is risky.
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I agree with the sentiments here, Marquez is the play based on value alone. I have +210 pending at matchbook, hopefully some doofus plays the other side. Already played it earlier at +161 and +172.
I see a close Pac decision, but -220 is crazy. I was tempted to play the over, but a head clash and cuts are possible along with a TKO, it's not worth it. Marq KO isnt completely out of the question, neither is a draw, so Marq Dec prop is risky.
Hand speeds and reflexes are the first to go as a fighter ages. powers the last to go.Maybe u missed typed
Not exactly sure what portion of my post you're responding too. I don't think Marquez ever had the power to seriously damage Pacman, and I wasn't suggesting he's lost any of it. I do believe though that an aging fighter loses foot speed, reflexes, and quickness before hand speed.
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Quote Originally Posted by PUSHING-IT:
Hand speeds and reflexes are the first to go as a fighter ages. powers the last to go.Maybe u missed typed
Not exactly sure what portion of my post you're responding too. I don't think Marquez ever had the power to seriously damage Pacman, and I wasn't suggesting he's lost any of it. I do believe though that an aging fighter loses foot speed, reflexes, and quickness before hand speed.
One of the few fighters in history that I underestimated his comeback ability (age defiance) was Shane Mosley. Shane Mosley vs Fernando Vargas I, I saw a lack of speed, power, etc.. in both fighters. I didn't think Mosley had what he had left in the tank. It showed to be more ring rust than anything, and his last fight with Cotto, I thought that was his best fight ever. So, I'm not doubting Marquez in the least bit, I just have seen small things in each fight where he now allows to many opportunities for other fighters, where as in the past, I didn't see that. Going back to there first fight, Manny overwhelmed him in the first round with speed and power, and being a southpaw. Marquez made such quick adjustments to the one dimensional fighter, who lacked balance and boxing ability. Fight by fight Manny has gotten better and better, to the point where he can actually box and not have to trade punches, and win the fight. He has used his jab much more, his feet are better positioned (which was his biggest weakness), and he uses circular motion. I know this is basic fundamental for a fighter, but for Manny, when he became champion, these were his weakest links. Marquez is the best at measuring a fighter and landing hard counter shots, or throwing measuring jabs followed by hard hitting multiple punch combos. Marquez is gonna have to do this round by round with precision, because Pacquiao will keep the pressure on if he feels Marquez has not yet calculated his attack.
The-Ionizer
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One of the few fighters in history that I underestimated his comeback ability (age defiance) was Shane Mosley. Shane Mosley vs Fernando Vargas I, I saw a lack of speed, power, etc.. in both fighters. I didn't think Mosley had what he had left in the tank. It showed to be more ring rust than anything, and his last fight with Cotto, I thought that was his best fight ever. So, I'm not doubting Marquez in the least bit, I just have seen small things in each fight where he now allows to many opportunities for other fighters, where as in the past, I didn't see that. Going back to there first fight, Manny overwhelmed him in the first round with speed and power, and being a southpaw. Marquez made such quick adjustments to the one dimensional fighter, who lacked balance and boxing ability. Fight by fight Manny has gotten better and better, to the point where he can actually box and not have to trade punches, and win the fight. He has used his jab much more, his feet are better positioned (which was his biggest weakness), and he uses circular motion. I know this is basic fundamental for a fighter, but for Manny, when he became champion, these were his weakest links. Marquez is the best at measuring a fighter and landing hard counter shots, or throwing measuring jabs followed by hard hitting multiple punch combos. Marquez is gonna have to do this round by round with precision, because Pacquiao will keep the pressure on if he feels Marquez has not yet calculated his attack.
why.. Pacman will knock JMM down... early! If not he won't be able to win by Decision... Last 2 title defense of JMM were both U.D. I think the 3rd time he'll be down and ask for another Pac JMM III
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why.. Pacman will knock JMM down... early! If not he won't be able to win by Decision... Last 2 title defense of JMM were both U.D. I think the 3rd time he'll be down and ask for another Pac JMM III
why.. Pacman will knock JMM down... early! If not he won't be able to win by Decision... Last 2 title defense of JMM were both U.D. I think the 3rd time he'll be down and ask for another Pac JMM III
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Quote Originally Posted by Abuyumiko:
why.. Pacman will knock JMM down... early! If not he won't be able to win by Decision... Last 2 title defense of JMM were both U.D. I think the 3rd time he'll be down and ask for another Pac JMM III
I guess nobody saw the 1st fight. Paq-man is made for Marquez. he will counter him all night and will win the decision this time. Bad matchup for Manny. Marquez is a true counter puncher and Paq-man will have to come forward and eat those counter straight right hands. Marquez will not be surprised by anything early and will frustrate Manny. Unanimous Dec for Marquez.
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I guess nobody saw the 1st fight. Paq-man is made for Marquez. he will counter him all night and will win the decision this time. Bad matchup for Manny. Marquez is a true counter puncher and Paq-man will have to come forward and eat those counter straight right hands. Marquez will not be surprised by anything early and will frustrate Manny. Unanimous Dec for Marquez.
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