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Barry Alvarez says the big 10 added rutgers and maryland to prevent...

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norseman67

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Posted: Dec. 8, 2012 - 4:55 PM ET #26

"darn"? I hate to break it to you Covers, but even a grade school kids kids know it's not darn.....

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thorpe

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Joined: Sep, 2002

Posts: 12927

Posted: Dec. 8, 2012 - 5:04 PM ET #27

Quote Originally Posted by 4theluvofmoney:

this seems biased for the ACC...they include Pitt and Cuse in there to up the ACC even though they are not in yet, but also include Maryland who like Cuse and Pitt are gone. And Rutgers used in the big east still. Guessing if you now add Maryland and Rutgers to Big 10 that changes this. This poll has it both ways for the ACC.

No it doesn't. Maryland is ranked 58 and Rutgers 68, so add them to the B10 and the B10 goes down and the ACC goes up. ACC is the best Academic conference top to bottom. Pac 12 is the best academic conference if you just look at the top half.

So when you said B10 was better than the ACC and it wasn't close, you were just being a homer.

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buckubad

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Joined: Jun, 2004

Posts: 13285

Posted: Dec. 8, 2012 - 6:41 PM ET #28

Quote Originally Posted by norseman67:

Googling - now there's something that holds up in court.

no,its true, that everything u google is true. no really

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wmi799

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Joined: Mar, 2010

Posts: 33604

Posted: Dec. 8, 2012 - 7:03 PM ET #29

Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

No it doesn't. Maryland is ranked 58 and Rutgers 68, so add them to the B10 and the B10 goes down and the ACC goes up. ACC is the best Academic conference top to bottom. Pac 12 is the best academic conference if you just look at the top half.

So when you said B10 was better than the ACC and it wasn't close, you were just being a homer.

Yes, a homer and a clueless one at that

Histrionic personality disorder. It's sad

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4theluvofmoney

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Posts: 3066

Posted: Dec. 8, 2012 - 9:49 PM ET #30

Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

No it doesn't. Maryland is ranked 58 and Rutgers 68, so add them to the B10 and the B10 goes down and the ACC goes up. ACC is the best Academic conference top to bottom. Pac 12 is the best academic conference if you just look at the top half.

So when you said B10 was better than the ACC and it wasn't close, you were just being a homer.

a homer? i am a usc fan and pac 12 fan.

to me north carolina gets the last ranking in america because of the cover up they had for their student athletes which should be much bigger news with whistle blowers and everything else there. yet a guy like jerry sandusky is who hasnt coached in 14 years and was raping kids off campus while an employee of some other org causes a team of innocent people 4 yrs of suffering. this is fair why? i am a truth seeker, not a homer for the big 10 who i care less about.

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4theluvofmoney

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Posts: 3066

Posted: Dec. 8, 2012 - 9:51 PM ET #31

Quote Originally Posted by buckubad:

no,its true, that everything u google is true. no really

so its only true if espn reports it, and since they did not report the underage abuse stuff at wisconsin it cant be true?

sometimes you gotta dig deeper to find the truth in life, things arent always what they appear because the media reports it one way.

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thorpe

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Posts: 12927

Posted: Dec. 8, 2012 - 10:00 PM ET #32

Quote Originally Posted by 4theluvofmoney:

a homer? i am a usc fan and pac 12 fan.

My mistake, Had you confused with the OP.

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mattbrot

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Posts: 6840

Posted: Dec. 9, 2012 - 3:45 PM ET #33

Quote Originally Posted by 4theluvofmoney:

a homer? i am a usc fan and pac 12 fan.

to me north carolina gets the last ranking in america because of the cover up they had for their student athletes which should be much bigger news with whistle blowers and everything else there. yet a guy like jerry sandusky is who hasnt coached in 14 years and was raping kids off campus while an employee of some other org causes a team of innocent people 4 yrs of suffering. this is fair why? i am a truth seeker, not a homer for the big 10 who i care less about.

the key word is cover up which is the case for Penn St as well. And the cover up was coming all the way form the top.

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thisguyiswise

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Posted: Dec. 9, 2012 - 5:37 PM ET #34

how did i know someone could not resist about sandusky and his ties to penn state when this thread topic has nothing to do with it.

one thing i will assure you matt (and i dont care to argue over this) is that there was not some "cover up" at all. you could say at this point lack of action and i would not argue, lack of care (joe did not want to be bothered with much else besides football), but cover up is just downright a stretch. these are some of the smartest men and a cover up would not involve company emails, knowledge to so many different people, including the police, 2nd mile, the AD, chief of police, grad assistant, grad assistant father, attorney general a doctor and so on.

a lack of action, sure, by many many people which include the governor, attorney general and so on. a cover up, not unless these guys were the dumbest people in the world, which while i would like to think so sometimes, they were all highly intelligent.

however all this is better summed up here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJqRXKBrFRU

or here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3z-3CBfM8Q

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mattbrot

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Posted: Dec. 9, 2012 - 7:01 PM ET #35

Quote Originally Posted by thisguyiswise:

how did i know someone could not resist about sandusky and his ties to penn state when this thread topic has nothing to do with it.

one thing i will assure you matt (and i dont care to argue over this) is that there was not some "cover up" at all. you could say at this point lack of action and i would not argue, lack of care (joe did not want to be bothered with much else besides football), but cover up is just downright a stretch. these are some of the smartest men and a cover up would not involve company emails, knowledge to so many different people, including the police, 2nd mile, the AD, chief of police, grad assistant, grad assistant father, attorney general a doctor and so on.

a lack of action, sure, by many many people which include the governor, attorney general and so on. a cover up, not unless these guys were the dumbest people in the world, which while i would like to think so sometimes, they were all highly intelligent.

however all this is better summed up here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJqRXKBrFRU

or here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3z-3CBfM8Q

I STRONGLY disagree. This is the very definition of a cover up -- i.e. hiding or ignoring a situation because of the obvious (or perceived) repercussions that would of occurred if they initially appropriately addressed the situation.

I also do not want to go down this road again but it is what it is...

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thisguyiswise

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Posted: Dec. 9, 2012 - 8:09 PM ET #36

ignoring a situation is negligence, not a cover up. hiding information is a cover up. i dont see what they hid from anyone personally, and believe it or not i am not one of their big defenders.

also, i dont know if there was a "situation" to address based on the fact that victim 2 (the psu shower vic) charges were dropped, he has come out and said there was no abuse since then, and the prosecution wanted him as far away from a court room as possible. the other victims, while tragic, were not associated with penn state facilities. in fact, their families do not blame penn state at all.

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mattbrot

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Posts: 6840

Posted: Dec. 9, 2012 - 9:52 PM ET #37

I guess we are debating semantics now. Call it what ever you want but when the TOP OFFICIALS of a TOP University receive information about the most horrific of actions (apparently repeatedly) and choose to ignore it or pretend it does not happen and hope it just goes away --- it is a cover up (or what ever you want to call it). I am not sure how else to put it.

And the fact that victim 2 charges were dropped (I have not heard this but I will assume it is true) IMO is not the best gauge.

Hear me out...

The story came out some 20 years ago or so and the victim is just now coming out and saying he lied. While that is shitty it does not explain that during those 20 or so years when the story was "true" that they still did not do anything. Not sure if that makes since but I do not know how to phrase it any better.

Minimize Penn St actions all you want but there is a reason (and plenty of phone and email records to indicate) that

1) Joe Pa, of all people, was fired and unfortunately died prematurely

2) Sandusky is in jail

3) Penn St is penalized

4) Spannier is going to jail for long time

5) Curley is going to jail for a long time

6) Schultz is going to jail for a long time

my guess is that it is /was much worse than we will ever know.

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thisguyiswise

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Joined: Dec, 2003

Posts: 6909

Posted: Dec. 10, 2012 - 1:01 AM ET #38

Matt, this discussion is a good one but i need to examine two things you stated that are false or unfounded.

1. the victim is just now coming out and saying this is false, do you know why that is? because nothing happened and people were not aware until 2011 that mcqueary saw a "rape". in fact thats not even what mcqueary said, its what the AG said in a press conference. IT WAS A LIE! so when all this came out victim 2 said "this did not happen" then the prosecutors decided this was the only witness they could or would not call to the stand and acted like they could not find vic 2. when vic 2 was known (the prosecutors knew whom he was the entire time) they could not use him because it would destroy their case. they decided to use vic 2 as a way to get national attention to fry sandusky. it worked, but vic 2 was not raped that day in the showers if you believe vic 2 and a jury. thus anything about penn state should be dismissed as none of the other victims had any accusations of being raped on psu campus. that really should be the end of penn state and joe paterno in this story.

2. i am not minimizing psu actions, there were no actions to minimize because they did not know what they were dealing with here. mcquery never told one official there was a rape because there wasnt one the night he went there. he could not even get the YEAR right. sandusky fooled these kids, these kids parents, the 2nd mile charity, former players, citizens, high schools and so on.

3. i would be shocked if all of those guys you mention go to jail at all and maybe even their cases get thrown out. there is a newly elected AG and she campaigned that she would be sure to find out why Gov. Tom Corbett sat on this for years all the while he took donations from Sandusky's foundation knowing full well they had an investigation. She has also said she would be one to seek the truth as to why the former AG made a statement such as "anal rape" in a press conference when that is not what happened (according to a jury and victim 2)

4. these kids and at least two mothers have stated they are angry psu has any sanctions (though i am sure they will line up for a civil suit, why not when penn st board is willing to hand them out?),

5. the penn state board of trustees made this way worse than anyone could imagine because they were not prepared for a media firestorm and created a pr disaster

6. the emails, are you kidding me? the emails say "coach", joe hated being called coach, in fact he is quoted in the book written by posnanski as yellling at a player for calling him "coach", he said "i dont call you player, dont call me coach!" on the other hand sandusky wanted to be called coach by everyone (guess why) even after he was employed by the school. so those emails that freeh found that state "after talking to coach" was taken by the media as paterno. while there is i guess a small chance it was paterno, nobody, not even his players called him "coach", they called him JOE, as he demanded.

have you watched the videos? you need to, its done by an independent john ziegler and georgetown grad who has not ties to penn state. he is on a mission to get the truth out there.

there are 3 people in regards to this

1. people who believed everything the media fed them and what the AG said of anal rape on psu grounds (false) and nothing will ever change their mind, they feel if they do they in some sick way are supporting sandusky (false) and cannot take that stand.

2. pure die hard penn state people who think joe could never do a wrong, the school and people in this country are just too good to let this happen and will defend penn state or whomever and they really dont care what anyone says

3. people like me, who have read the freeh report 3 times, who have picked up the posnanski paterno book and read it, have talked to many prominent alumni, who have examined all angles in this and can say while there was no "cover up" because it makes zero sense, there may have been negligence. lets wait for the trials of the 3 you mentioned to come out and lets get some truth and facts before we judge anyone (besides the rapist sandusky).

thats all, everything happened so fast, the media misreported so much, the freeh report was a huge mistake by the university (he basically made assumptions, interviewed no one with substance and his past is sketchier than anyone but sandusky involved in this)