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Im bored. No sports for me to bet on. How about a religion thread?

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Posted: #551

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



Exactly, it is all about feeling.  Religion was made up, but you want to believe it is real (just like Santa Claus to a little kid).  Religion sounds terrific, but in the end it's just a fairy tale...

And what do you mean you've seen the transition?  Are you trying to say you prayed for something, got it, and attribute it to divine intervention?

And to answer Rostos, yes I do believe their is life somewhere else out there in this universe.  The probability of it is very high and I play percentages.  There has already been planets discovered that are very similar to ours.  There is life somewhere out there.

I'll leave you with this Rostos... Do you believe the Bible to be the word of god?  If so, why did he plagiarize the story about his "son"?

No offense, but this is why you are a hypocrit. You say you believe there is life simply due to the size of the universe etc. Even though there is NO proof of other life, you are pointing to sign posts that could point to other life but when i point to sign posts for God even thought there is no hard proof. i get slammed.

So people who believe there is other life are allowed to have faith but if people believe in God they get slammed for there faith.

Hypocrisy at its best.....

Furthermore, this idea of God being man made to make him feel better.

First of all, i dont know about you, but i dont think of death every day and what might happen after death.

Secondly, in term sof lifestyle, it is much harder to be a PRACTICING catholic than a non believer. Sacrifice, change in lifestyle, time to pray etc. Humans PREFER to take the easy option, being a practicing CATHOLIC does not allow you take the easy option. Giving up meat on friday's, fasting on good Fridays, not to suppose to lie without it affecting your subconcious etc etc. How wonderful and easy is it to do anything you like without fear (subsconciously), how nice would it be. Why would one want to put restrcitions on themsleves if they did it just to overcome there fear of death?

It is not rational that people believe in God just so they can overcome there fear of death.

 
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Posted: #552
Damn Van I step away for a few days and enjoy the Florida sun w/out looking at the forum once and you get a 23 pg bible study going

I will have to go through and read some of the responses later 

Fuckin foolish, ignorant, gullible "religion-believers"

I hope everyone realizes I said religion and not god, since I am intelligent enough to say whatever/whomever created/started the big-bang/string theory black holes & quasars plus whatever....is totally unknown. The only thing I do know is that religion is a power grabbing joke and the rest is up for determination, JUST NOT THESE BS RELIGIONS

 
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Posted: #553
Tennis ball
 
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Posted: #554
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

No offense, but this is why you are a hypocrit. You say you believe there is life simply due to the size of the universe etc. Even though there is NO proof of other life, you are pointing to sign posts that could point to other life but when i point to sign posts for God even thought there is no hard proof. i get slammed.

So people who believe there is other life are allowed to have faith but if people believe in God they get slammed for there faith.

Hypocrisy at its best.....

Furthermore, this idea of God being man made to make him feel better.

First of all, i dont know about you, but i dont think of death every day and what might happen after death.

Secondly, in term sof lifestyle, it is much harder to be a PRACTICING catholic than a non believer. Sacrifice, change in lifestyle, time to pray etc. Humans PREFER to take the easy option, being a practicing CATHOLIC does not allow you take the easy option. Giving up meat on friday's, fasting on good Fridays, not to suppose to lie without it affecting your subconcious etc etc. How wonderful and easy is it to do anything you like without fear (subsconciously), how nice would it be. Why would one want to put restrcitions on themsleves if they did it just to overcome there fear of death?

It is not rational that people believe in God just so they can overcome there fear of death.



Rostos, my man the entire religious concept and life after death bullshit theory is based on HUMANS SELF-AWARENESS I would be willing to risk my left nut that my lab has no awareness or concern about death, dumbfuck would cross the street w/ 1000 semi's rolling through if a piece of pizza was on the other side. My point is that our knowledge of death as humans makes us fear the inevitable end and we would like to think there is something after that...

I don't know if you are well versed in understanding the mind, but if you take out parts of the cerebellum a human wouldn't relate thoughts, ideas, or concepts. They also couldn't breathe, think, or act! So yes any life after death concept/philosophy is absolutely fucking moronic I guess to the "believers" our minds just drift out in space????

So does the "believer" god watch over all trillion galaxies w/ the billions of stars in each 1 and if that's the case how about the trillions of living creatures on each 1 of those planets? Did god create dinosaurs? I really don't know the answer to this in the religious minds....How about LICE, since Neil Degrasse Tyson showed how actual scientists use them as data to figure out when humans evolved from hairy apes as well as when humans started wearing clothing....

Religion is the equivalent of George Orwell's 1984
 
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Posted: #555
This is shifting the debate a bit, but I'd like to hear from a believer what exactly he thinks happens after he dies? Where does he go? What does he look like? What type of consciousness does he experience? Who does he interact with? I can go on and on about specific questions, but you get the general idea. I know it is very easy to say "i don't know," but belief in god and an afterlife hinges upon the belief that in some fashion, you continue to exist after death. Therefore, you must have some thoughts on what that is like and this is what I am curious about. My question is open to anyone.
 
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Posted: #556

I believe that we will go into a state - pergatory, where we will be judged according to how we lived our lives. If we asked for forgiveness from Christ in our lives then i believe you will enter the kingdom of heavan. I have heard some people say heavan would be boaring, but i reckon everything that we enjoy here that is full of goodness has been dervived from God anyway so we will continue to enjoy that.

I further believe you will find out everything that you want to know regarding why a universe / earth was necessary for us to live in, why we went through this life. I also believe you will be able to see or KNOW everything that happened in this truth, ie, the truth, for example, if Sep 11 was inside job, it would be revealed. All the answers will be known.

I liken heavan to be like the most magnificient natural beauty this earth offers times 1000.

Thats my belief.

 
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Posted: #557
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

No offense, but this is why you are a hypocrit. You say you believe there is life simply due to the size of the universe etc. Even though there is NO proof of other life, you are pointing to sign posts that could point to other life but when i point to sign posts for God even thought there is no hard proof. i get slammed.

So people who believe there is other life are allowed to have faith but if people believe in God they get slammed for there faith.

Hypocrisy at its best.....

Furthermore, this idea of God being man made to make him feel better.

First of all, i dont know about you, but i dont think of death every day and what might happen after death.

Secondly, in term sof lifestyle, it is much harder to be a PRACTICING catholic than a non believer. Sacrifice, change in lifestyle, time to pray etc. Humans PREFER to take the easy option, being a practicing CATHOLIC does not allow you take the easy option. Giving up meat on friday's, fasting on good Fridays, not to suppose to lie without it affecting your subconcious etc etc. How wonderful and easy is it to do anything you like without fear (subsconciously), how nice would it be. Why would one want to put restrcitions on themsleves if they did it just to overcome there fear of death?

It is not rational that people believe in God just so they can overcome there fear of death.



How can you say I'm a hypocrite??  All I'm saying is that I think that there is a great chance that life exists elsewhere in this universe.  It is completely consistent with what I said about god's existence.  The chance of there being no god is greater than the chance of one existing.  I'm playing percentages...  I'm not sure how I was a hypocrite in any way...
 
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Posted: #558
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

I believe that we will go into a state - pergatory, where we will be judged according to how we lived our lives. If we asked for forgiveness from Christ in our lives then i believe you will enter the kingdom of heavan. I have heard some people say heavan would be boaring, but i reckon everything that we enjoy here that is full of goodness has been dervived from God anyway so we will continue to enjoy that.

I further believe you will find out everything that you want to know regarding why a universe / earth was necessary for us to live in, why we went through this life. I also believe you will be able to see or KNOW everything that happened in this truth, ie, the truth, for example, if Sep 11 was inside job, it would be revealed. All the answers will be known.

I liken heavan to be like the most magnificient natural beauty this earth offers times 1000.

Thats my belief.



Well that doesn't seem fair...  I thought your god was forgiving.  He picks and chooses who gets into heaven??  He sounds like an asshole to be perfectly honest...

And addressing something you said earlier...  You know you're supposed to fast for all of Lent right?  Not just on Fridays.  Or is that too hard for you?

And you think because it's harder that it makes it right?  I don't follow that at all...

And you never responded to what I said about the story of Jesus being stolen...
 
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Posted: #559
And one last thing......

If you believe heaven is this amazing and great place then why don't you just kill yourself??
 
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Posted: #560

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



Well that doesn't seem fair...  I thought your god was forgiving.  He picks and chooses who gets into heaven??  He sounds like an asshole to be perfectly honest...

And addressing something you said earlier...  You know you're supposed to fast for all of Lent right?  Not just on Fridays.  Or is that too hard for you?

And you think because it's harder that it makes it right?  I don't follow that at all...

And you never responded to what I said about the story of Jesus being stolen...

No, the ony bad person is the one that doesnt love him back.

The stolen Jesus story? U refering to the Zeitgest?

 

 
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Posted: #561

vanzack - to you, the swordsman of philosophy. may your crusade as the myth buster of religion kill one-thousand lifetimes of bordom.

though, in that all cavalry must stand against the gladius of truth to have its shield tested, the wise will always return to bury the fallen in death. for the armor in which they have slain, may have risen from the dead.

jesus is crucified on the cross of syncronized facts, put to death in his identical and parallels to the pagan idol horace. nails of death that not even a christian has defence.

though, return to body to pay respect, and return with a historian and he will raise the dead, asking mythicists to sustain all lies dressed as ancient egyptology sourced facts.

asketh you say and you shall recieve, but never forget what hoodwink said; the dead bury the dead and can make them say, there isnt a copycat fact alive today.

 
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Posted: #562
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



Exactly, it is all about feeling.  Religion was made up, but you want to believe it is real (just like Santa Claus to a little kid).  Religion sounds terrific, but in the end it's just a fairy tale...

And what do you mean you've seen the transition?  Are you trying to say you prayed for something, got it, and attribute it to divine intervention?

And to answer Rostos, yes I do believe their is life somewhere else out there in this universe.  The probability of it is very high and I play percentages.  There has already been planets discovered that are very similar to ours.  There is life somewhere out there.

I'll leave you with this Rostos... Do you believe the Bible to be the word of god?  If so, why did he plagiarize the story about his "son"?


Haha wow, see this is my point of how you guys have this thinking of already there is no God. You can't even open your mind up for two seconds to see if there is that possibility. But I know how you feel!

Please also don't assume anything about my transition. You just sit back and think you know everything and assume it is something I prayed for lol. What a joke!!!

My personal transition saw everyone change in my family one by one. We were a regular going church family but only went because my mom thought it was right for us as younger children to go. We hated it! Laughed at the priests, thought it was all bullshit but again it was for the mom. My father was like Homer Simpson and couldn't wait to get out much like myself and four sisters. We were pretty well atheists or had small faith if anything but would never consider being a godly person let alone stick up for him.

My father started hanging out with Mike Pinball Clemons and Doug Flutie when they were both with the Toronto Arognuats. My Dad works In Television and happened to meet them and start a small friendship which grew into something more. They invited him out to a dinner one night and started talking Christianity. He told them straight up he was not interested but would perhaps explore their thought and attend church with them to see the differance between that and ours.

He started going more and more and really enjoying it. Our whole family was shocked. We mocked and laughed and especially when he would come home with these christian cds and tapes. In the mid-90's  think 96 or so, my dad became a born again christian. He came home a different man. When people would ask him how is he doing? his response was "fantastic and getting better" and 15 years later it is still the same response.

For my family this was a major issue. My mother who took us to church only to do the politcally correct thing, now had a husband she couldn't understand and frankly was mocking along with us children. Divorce was talked about more than just a few times. My mom wanted out and couldn't take it. She loved the transition of him and his new found mojo and love but found it hard to believe someone could have a personal relationship with christ being a unseen thing.

About two years after my father be came a born again my mother started going out with Pinball and my father to their church. Please also remember at the time now us kids at got to the age that we could make up our own mind and obviously decided no way we were going to church. She changed as well and in 98-99 time became a born again christian. Now it was the children vs the parents and again we mocked them even though we saw they have been profoundly changed and the love for each other and volunteering around places and changed in everyway for the better (work, attitude, spending time with us, love for each other, health, etc.)  we hated this new christian life and the thought that now we were a christian family.

Long story short, one by one over the course of the next 15 years I have seen all my sisters dramatically change and the worst was my last one that changed who is the second oldest, We were two peas in a pot. Both in the cool and popular groups, out clubbing having lots of sex or relationships, did drugs, partying all the time, always getting into trouble, etc. When she changed it broke my heart and I was so shocked that the one sister I could always count on being there and understanding my situation changed to the people we were mocking. Around two years later I decided to go with her to her church and eventually became a christian. I have never looked back as I have improved everything in my life and become a changed person both emotionally and mentally. That is where I get the "feeling" that I'm talking about. I can feel christ in me in which he has given the holy spirit and i know how crazy it sounds to you atheists because I was there at one time as well but it is true and exists. I'm sorry there is no doubt. I wouldn't deny christ if there was a gun to my head.

Hope you can see some of my story is something more than just a "prayer that came true" and that is what I mean by seeing a transition in my family.

Personally I thank Mike Clemons and Doug Flutie for showing my dad the truth and how it has trickled down. Took many years but eventually I got there.
 
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Posted: #563
Quote Originally Posted by minion0812:



Haha wow, see this is my point of how you guys have this thinking of already there is no God. You can't even open your mind up for two seconds to see if there is that possibility. But I know how you feel!

Please also don't assume anything about my transition. You just sit back and think you know everything and assume it is something I prayed for lol. What a joke!!!

My personal transition saw everyone change in my family one by one. We were a regular going church family but only went because my mom thought it was right for us as younger children to go. We hated it! Laughed at the priests, thought it was all bullshit but again it was for the mom. My father was like Homer Simpson and couldn't wait to get out much like myself and four sisters. We were pretty well atheists or had small faith if anything but would never consider being a godly person let alone stick up for him.

My father started hanging out with Mike Pinball Clemons and Doug Flutie when they were both with the Toronto Arognuats. My Dad works In Television and happened to meet them and start a small friendship which grew into something more. They invited him out to a dinner one night and started talking Christianity. He told them straight up he was not interested but would perhaps explore their thought and attend church with them to see the differance between that and ours.

He started going more and more and really enjoying it. Our whole family was shocked. We mocked and laughed and especially when he would come home with these christian cds and tapes. In the mid-90's  think 96 or so, my dad became a born again christian. He came home a different man. When people would ask him how is he doing? his response was "fantastic and getting better" and 15 years later it is still the same response.

For my family this was a major issue. My mother who took us to church only to do the politcally correct thing, now had a husband she couldn't understand and frankly was mocking along with us children. Divorce was talked about more than just a few times. My mom wanted out and couldn't take it. She loved the transition of him and his new found mojo and love but found it hard to believe someone could have a personal relationship with christ being a unseen thing.

About two years after my father be came a born again my mother started going out with Pinball and my father to their church. Please also remember at the time now us kids at got to the age that we could make up our own mind and obviously decided no way we were going to church. She changed as well and in 98-99 time became a born again christian. Now it was the children vs the parents and again we mocked them even though we saw they have been profoundly changed and the love for each other and volunteering around places and changed in everyway for the better (work, attitude, spending time with us, love for each other, health, etc.)  we hated this new christian life and the thought that now we were a christian family.

Long story short, one by one over the course of the next 15 years I have seen all my sisters dramatically change and the worst was my last one that changed who is the second oldest, We were two peas in a pot. Both in the cool and popular groups, out clubbing having lots of sex or relationships, did drugs, partying all the time, always getting into trouble, etc. When she changed it broke my heart and I was so shocked that the one sister I could always count on being there and understanding my situation changed to the people we were mocking. Around two years later I decided to go with her to her church and eventually became a christian. I have never looked back as I have improved everything in my life and become a changed person both emotionally and mentally. That is where I get the "feeling" that I'm talking about. I can feel christ in me in which he has given the holy spirit and i know how crazy it sounds to you atheists because I was there at one time as well but it is true and exists. I'm sorry there is no doubt. I wouldn't deny christ if there was a gun to my head.

Hope you can see some of my story is something more than just a "prayer that came true" and that is what I mean by seeing a transition in my family.

Personally I thank Mike Clemons and Doug Flutie for showing my dad the truth and how it has trickled down. Took many years but eventually I got there.


The days of Mysticism ended 3000 years ago. Your story is an interpretation. And a convenient one at that.
 
All spinned and woven to create the story of your salvation which you so desperately needed and desired, or so you thought. Its the drama you have created for your life, the narrative so to speak. IThere was a void in your life and you have filled it with a story, and have accepted it as truth, despite all the glaring evidence to the contrary..
 
You say Christ changed your life in a positive way. Thats great and I am happy for you. And I mean that. It worked for you and your family. Its sounds like your family needed some help anyway.   Just dont' expect the rest of rational world to follow the road to ignorance.  

You have no more understanding of life after death than any other human being on the planet. 

 Enjoy your OPIATE of choice




 
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Posted: #564
Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:



The days of Mysticism ended 3000 years ago. Your story is an interpretation. And a convenient one at that.
 
All spinned and woven to create the story of your salvation which you so desperately needed and desired, or so you thought. Its the drama you have created for your life, the narrative so to speak. IThere was a void in your life and you have filled it with a story, and have accepted it as truth, despite all the glaring evidence to the contrary..
 
You say Christ changed your life in a positive way. Thats great and I am happy for you. And I mean that. It worked for you and your family. Its sounds like your family needed some help anyway.   Just dont' expect the rest of rational world to follow the road to ignorance.  

You have no more understanding of life after death than any other human being on the planet. 

 Enjoy your OPIATE of choice






haha my family need help before? Not so much we were all very well off and there was certainly no lack of love. Don't tell me I needed something like this in my life to feel complete. What a crock you read something over and somehow you know my whole past and family? haha gimme a break!
 
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Posted: #565
haha and spinned and woven??? lol this guy is hilarious! Wow you prove my point that you never listen. Oh well, heck I was there once. I am one of the lucky ones that has been on both sides and feel fortunate my father and our family have met and befriend these two. I'm not going to sit here and tell you all the anwsers or that it even makes sense in the slightest because there are lots of things that are very hard to understand. However you TILTOLOGIC are just being an ingnorant fool. I'm not going to tell you that for sure your wrong and I'm right I just said what happened in my life and how I've become a christian. By all means keep being an atheist person and that is your free will and right to choose and think for yourself. Not a chance am I also going to sit here and tell you that I wasn't on the other side as well because as much as you think I'm an idiot at one time was just like you.
 
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Posted: #566
Quote Originally Posted by minion0812:



Haha wow, see this is my point of how you guys have this thinking of already there is no God. You can't even open your mind up for two seconds to see if there is that possibility. But I know how you feel!

Please also don't assume anything about my transition. You just sit back and think you know everything and assume it is something I prayed for lol. What a joke!!!

My personal transition saw everyone change in my family one by one. We were a regular going church family but only went because my mom thought it was right for us as younger children to go. We hated it! Laughed at the priests, thought it was all bullshit but again it was for the mom. My father was like Homer Simpson and couldn't wait to get out much like myself and four sisters. We were pretty well atheists or had small faith if anything but would never consider being a godly person let alone stick up for him.

My father started hanging out with Mike Pinball Clemons and Doug Flutie when they were both with the Toronto Arognuats. My Dad works In Television and happened to meet them and start a small friendship which grew into something more. They invited him out to a dinner one night and started talking Christianity. He told them straight up he was not interested but would perhaps explore their thought and attend church with them to see the differance between that and ours.

He started going more and more and really enjoying it. Our whole family was shocked. We mocked and laughed and especially when he would come home with these christian cds and tapes. In the mid-90's  think 96 or so, my dad became a born again christian. He came home a different man. When people would ask him how is he doing? his response was "fantastic and getting better" and 15 years later it is still the same response.

For my family this was a major issue. My mother who took us to church only to do the politcally correct thing, now had a husband she couldn't understand and frankly was mocking along with us children. Divorce was talked about more than just a few times. My mom wanted out and couldn't take it. She loved the transition of him and his new found mojo and love but found it hard to believe someone could have a personal relationship with christ being a unseen thing.

About two years after my father be came a born again my mother started going out with Pinball and my father to their church. Please also remember at the time now us kids at got to the age that we could make up our own mind and obviously decided no way we were going to church. She changed as well and in 98-99 time became a born again christian. Now it was the children vs the parents and again we mocked them even though we saw they have been profoundly changed and the love for each other and volunteering around places and changed in everyway for the better (work, attitude, spending time with us, love for each other, health, etc.)  we hated this new christian life and the thought that now we were a christian family.

Long story short, one by one over the course of the next 15 years I have seen all my sisters dramatically change and the worst was my last one that changed who is the second oldest, We were two peas in a pot. Both in the cool and popular groups, out clubbing having lots of sex or relationships, did drugs, partying all the time, always getting into trouble, etc. When she changed it broke my heart and I was so shocked that the one sister I could always count on being there and understanding my situation changed to the people we were mocking. Around two years later I decided to go with her to her church and eventually became a christian. I have never looked back as I have improved everything in my life and become a changed person both emotionally and mentally. That is where I get the "feeling" that I'm talking about. I can feel christ in me in which he has given the holy spirit and i know how crazy it sounds to you atheists because I was there at one time as well but it is true and exists. I'm sorry there is no doubt. I wouldn't deny christ if there was a gun to my head.

Hope you can see some of my story is something more than just a "prayer that came true" and that is what I mean by seeing a transition in my family.

Personally I thank Mike Clemons and Doug Flutie for showing my dad the truth and how it has trickled down. Took many years but eventually I got there.

That says nothing about the existence of god. All it says is that your family was experiencing some problems and religion solved them for you by bringing you all together. It could've been anything. It could've been you all bonded over watching football and decided to become avid football fans instead of doing drugs and the like. It's great for you and your family but has nothing to do with god.
 
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Posted: #567

i have a question for the christians.  i'm not trying to be offensive, i'm just curious.  for those of you who go to bible study, or used to, and go to church or wherever else the bible may be a central component of your gathering, what does the teacher or priest or whomever is in charge do when it comes to the many parts that involve violence, discrimination, misogyny, rape, murder, slavery etc.?  do they skip over it or discuss it openly and say the god of the bible didn't mean all of that or what? 

what about for kids' bible study where the purpose includes recruitment?  do they sugarcoat it a little or do the kids get the full bible treatment? 

 
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Posted: #568
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

I believe that we will go into a state - pergatory, where we will be judged according to how we lived our lives. If we asked for forgiveness from Christ in our lives then i believe you will enter the kingdom of heavan. I have heard some people say heavan would be boaring, but i reckon everything that we enjoy here that is full of goodness has been dervived from God anyway so we will continue to enjoy that.

I further believe you will find out everything that you want to know regarding why a universe / earth was necessary for us to live in, why we went through this life. I also believe you will be able to see or KNOW everything that happened in this truth, ie, the truth, for example, if Sep 11 was inside job, it would be revealed. All the answers will be known.

I liken heavan to be like the most magnificient natural beauty this earth offers times 1000.

Thats my belief.


Do you eat? Do you continue living your life? Do you go to the movies? What age are you in heaven: the age when you die? the age of your prime? do you pick your age? What about babies that die within the first week of life? Certainly there's NO WAY they could've asked for jesus in their lives on account of them being a week old or less. I guess god just shuns them to hell, nice guy. Are there animals in heaven? If so, how'd they get there? Is it a state of perfection? Do you always get what you want? That would be pretty awful. Imagine playing a video game and you never lost. Imagine winning 100% of your bets. But would you be allowed to lose in heaven at something. Seems counterintuitive. Why would there be any unhappiness whatsoever? Obviously I can't expect you to have the answers to these questions, but the questions themselves place great doubt on the practicality of the existence of a "heaven." Furthermore, I can't think of one legitimate reason why heaven should exist in the first place.
 
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Posted: #569
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

i have a question for the christians.  i'm not trying to be offensive, i'm just curious.  for those of you who go to bible study, or used to, and go to church or wherever else the bible may be a central component of your gathering, what does the teacher or priest or whomever is in charge do when it comes to the many parts that involve violence, discrimination, misogyny, rape, murder, slavery etc.?  do they skip over it or discuss it openly and say the god of the bible didn't mean all of that or what? 

what about for kids' bible study where the purpose includes recruitment?  do they sugarcoat it a little or do the kids get the full bible treatment? 



Can't speak so much for the kids part because quite frankly I don't remember and am not part of the children's study in the church. As far as the grown up or youth bible study it is very much open to debate. There is no skipping over parts and often great debates or thought's come about. We mainly only do New testament at least since I have been going.
 
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Posted: #570
A Christian debating an Atheist 
 
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Posted: #571

why do you mainly do the new testament?  isn't the old testament where most of the bad stuff is?  a few of these guys much more knowledgeable about the bible than i am have posted a lot of pretty bad shit that's in that book.  do you guys discuss that stuff? 

does anyone know if they the kids get exposed to that stuff or if they just give them the happy bible passages until they get older?  

 
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Posted: #572

Quote Originally Posted by minion0812:

haha and spinned and woven??? lol this guy is hilarious! Wow you prove my point that you never listen. Oh well, heck I was there once. I am one of the lucky ones that has been on both sides and feel fortunate my father and our family have met and befriend these two. I'm not going to sit here and tell you all the anwsers or that it even makes sense in the slightest because there are lots of things that are very hard to understand. However you TILTOLOGIC are just being an ingnorant fool. I'm not going to tell you that for sure your wrong and I'm right I just said what happened in my life and how I've become a christian. By all means keep being an atheist person and that is your free will and right to choose and think for yourself. Not a chance am I also going to sit here and tell you that I wasn't on the other side as well because as much as you think I'm an idiot at one time was just like you.

Minion - with all due respect - and this is not an attempt to make you change your views or try to pretend that I know anything about you - I am depersonlizing your post above about your testimony - and taking Tiltologics view and trying to explain it further - from the outside looking in of someone who knows nothing about you.

That being said....

If I may take the liberty of assuming what Tilt was saying, and further speak for him - and myself.

There is an easy explanation for you and your family's transformation.  And it has nothing to do with anything related to god, spirituality, or the metaphysical world.  It is simply that you and your family were looking for answers to whatever was void in your life, and this story happened to fit the bill.  Some people need structure and rules, and maybe your family had none of that - and religion gave them this foundation which they were able to use to better themselves.

In other words, religion often acts as a catalyst for change in people who need something external to change them.  So maybe your family would have made the same changes if they started being scientologists as they would christianity - it is the idea that they needed some kind of stabilizing catalyst in their life to make change - change that ultimately had everything to do with themselves and nothing with the religion of choice.

This is how the outsider non-believer sees your story.  The positive changes in a story such as yours should be celebrated, but you have to look at cause and effect - was the cause of the change religion itself (doctrines, rules, lifestyle - not god), or was the cause of the change actually metaphysical? 

Non-believers would say the changes you have witnessed could have happened (and do happen) with tons of other catalysts too - a better job, a relationship, a troubled teenager in an afterschool mentoring program - all of these things are catalysts for change in life in the same way religion changes others lives.  But it is not god, it is simply the catalyst itself.

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Posted: #573
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:


That says nothing about the existence of god. All it says is that your family was experiencing some problems and religion solved them for you by bringing you all together. It could've been anything. It could've been you all bonded over watching football and decided to become avid football fans instead of doing drugs and the like. It's great for you and your family but has nothing to do with god.


Haha again this whole my family had problems? lmao! My dad was head chair at CTV which would be like CBS in the States and my mother is a Family doctor. Believe me, there were no major problems going on. Keep telling yourself that. We are a very well off family from just outside of Toronto that already had everything we ever wanted that changed. Me and my sister were little bugger but who doesn't screw around these days with getting out and partying. But as far as education, money, love, jobs, etc. we had it all. There was no Jesus saves our family lol. Wow you guys are funny, it just happened to happen.
 
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Posted: #574
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Minion - with all due respect - and this is not an attempt to make you change your views or try to pretend that I know anything about you - I am depersonlizing your post above about your testimony - and taking Tiltologics view and trying to explain it further - from the outside looking in of someone who knows nothing about you.

That being said....

If I may take the liberty of assuming what Tilt was saying, and further speak for him - and myself.

There is an easy explanation for you and your family's transformation.  And it has nothing to do with anything related to god, spirituality, or the metaphysical world.  It is simply that you and your family were looking for answers to whatever was void in your life, and this story happened to fit the bill.  Some people need structure and rules, and maybe your family had none of that - and religion gave them this foundation which they were able to use to better themselves.

In other words, religion often acts as a catalyst for change in people who need something external to change them.  So maybe your family would have made the same changes if they started being scientologists as they would christianity - it is the idea that they needed some kind of stabilizing catalyst in their life to make change - change that ultimately had everything to do with themselves and nothing with the religion of choice.

This is how the outsider non-believer sees your story.  The positive changes in a story such as yours should be celebrated, but you have to look at cause and effect - was the cause of the change religion itself (doctrines, rules, lifestyle - not god), or was the cause of the change actually metaphysical? 

Non-believers would say the changes you have witnessed could have happened (and do happen) with tons of other catalysts too - a better job, a relationship, a troubled teenager in an afterschool mentoring program - all of these things are catalysts for change in life in the same way religion changes others lives.  But it is not god, it is simply the catalyst itself.



Hey Van, no doubt bud. Listen like I have said all along I understand it is crazy and I;m not on here trying to tell you your wrong just give you a little insight from a true christian that represents the religion from a more modern side and can relate to any atheists because I was one.

I completely respect your thoughts are you clearly are a very intelligent man from what I've seen you post. I do also see it is very hard to understand from a non-believer that the change in my family was just because we were missing something but we weren't.

See what your saying and I also am intelligent enough to know it is nearly impossible for a non-believer to see it any other way than what you pointed out in your response. Hit it bang on.


 
 
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Posted: #575
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

why do you mainly do the new testament?  isn't the old testament where most of the bad stuff is?  a few of these guys much more knowledgeable about the bible than i am have posted a lot of pretty bad shit that's in that book.  do you guys discuss that stuff? 

does anyone know if they the kids get exposed to that stuff or if they just give them the happy bible passages until they get older?  



Doing new testament now because that is when I came in. I'm sure they will be doing the old T in upcoming months or years.
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