I love how the target is placed on the back of liberals, minorities and low income people, how short sided and wrong.
The banks were not forced to write 90 to 100 dollars in loans relative to cash on deposit, the banks were more than happy to slurp up origination fees and underwriting fees, then chop all the loans up and profit of selling them to all and any while outright LYING about the credit strength and even betting against the very products they duped to others.
Maybe my math is bad, but a lower income homeowner who defaults on a 200k loan, with it being sold for 100k is a lesser loss than the second tier buyer who bought a 750k house and it auctions at 350k. The foreclosure market is BUSTING out for those bread and butter homes you are bashing, while the higher end properties sit in short sale for a year or more. THAT is the state of the current market.
Keep placing blame on minorities and shield the banks and lenders and builders, that makes tons of sense.
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Oh how a good thread goes bad so easily.
I love how the target is placed on the back of liberals, minorities and low income people, how short sided and wrong.
The banks were not forced to write 90 to 100 dollars in loans relative to cash on deposit, the banks were more than happy to slurp up origination fees and underwriting fees, then chop all the loans up and profit of selling them to all and any while outright LYING about the credit strength and even betting against the very products they duped to others.
Maybe my math is bad, but a lower income homeowner who defaults on a 200k loan, with it being sold for 100k is a lesser loss than the second tier buyer who bought a 750k house and it auctions at 350k. The foreclosure market is BUSTING out for those bread and butter homes you are bashing, while the higher end properties sit in short sale for a year or more. THAT is the state of the current market.
Keep placing blame on minorities and shield the banks and lenders and builders, that makes tons of sense.
I love how the target is placed on the back of liberals, minorities and low income people, how short sided and wrong.
The banks were not forced to write 90 to 100 dollars in loans relative to cash on deposit, the banks were more than happy to slurp up origination fees and underwriting fees, then chop all the loans up and profit of selling them to all and any while outright LYING about the credit strength and even betting against the very products they duped to others.
Maybe my math is bad, but a lower income homeowner who defaults on a 200k loan, with it being sold for 100k is a lesser loss than the second tier buyer who bought a 750k house and it auctions at 350k. The foreclosure market is BUSTING out for those bread and butter homes you are bashing, while the higher end properties sit in short sale for a year or more. THAT is the state of the current market.
Keep placing blame on minorities and shield the banks and lenders and builders, that makes tons of sense.
All this is true, but "low income people" are the majority of homeowners( I will set the number at a 50k per year) and the number of 200k homes dwarfs the number of 750k homes....
Its just a big shit sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Oh how a good thread goes bad so easily.
I love how the target is placed on the back of liberals, minorities and low income people, how short sided and wrong.
The banks were not forced to write 90 to 100 dollars in loans relative to cash on deposit, the banks were more than happy to slurp up origination fees and underwriting fees, then chop all the loans up and profit of selling them to all and any while outright LYING about the credit strength and even betting against the very products they duped to others.
Maybe my math is bad, but a lower income homeowner who defaults on a 200k loan, with it being sold for 100k is a lesser loss than the second tier buyer who bought a 750k house and it auctions at 350k. The foreclosure market is BUSTING out for those bread and butter homes you are bashing, while the higher end properties sit in short sale for a year or more. THAT is the state of the current market.
Keep placing blame on minorities and shield the banks and lenders and builders, that makes tons of sense.
All this is true, but "low income people" are the majority of homeowners( I will set the number at a 50k per year) and the number of 200k homes dwarfs the number of 750k homes....
Its just a big shit sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite.
Low interest rates are what created this mess so when all else fails just repeat what didn't work in the past.
Not true...
The U.S. Federal Gov decided more people should be in homes. They forced banks to lend to people that wouldn't normally qualify, programs worked well. And here we are.
If the U.S. Gov took over the Mohave Desert, there'd be a sand shortage within 5 years.
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Quote Originally Posted by LeafsNeedD:
Low interest rates are what created this mess so when all else fails just repeat what didn't work in the past.
Not true...
The U.S. Federal Gov decided more people should be in homes. They forced banks to lend to people that wouldn't normally qualify, programs worked well. And here we are.
If the U.S. Gov took over the Mohave Desert, there'd be a sand shortage within 5 years.
Or, banks are going to have to lower their standards. Banks are in the business of lending money, what is going to happen when they run out of 800 / 20%ers? They are either going to have to find another way to make money other than lending, or they are going to have to reduce their standards and start welciming in the new normal - the 650 / 5% ers.
Otherwise, we are going to return to a nation of wealthy landowners and masses of renters.
It is so FUBAR right now.
This goes to my point about interest rates. Let me know if I am thinking wrong. The banks still need to loan the money. Yes. By keeping values up and interest rates down, they entice more buyers because these buyers think they are getting a better deal by paying a smaller monthly payment, yet still paying for a over valued property. it just seems that the banks are still winning in the end.
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
A lot less owners, and a lot more renters.
Or, banks are going to have to lower their standards. Banks are in the business of lending money, what is going to happen when they run out of 800 / 20%ers? They are either going to have to find another way to make money other than lending, or they are going to have to reduce their standards and start welciming in the new normal - the 650 / 5% ers.
Otherwise, we are going to return to a nation of wealthy landowners and masses of renters.
It is so FUBAR right now.
This goes to my point about interest rates. Let me know if I am thinking wrong. The banks still need to loan the money. Yes. By keeping values up and interest rates down, they entice more buyers because these buyers think they are getting a better deal by paying a smaller monthly payment, yet still paying for a over valued property. it just seems that the banks are still winning in the end.
30 yr mortgage? lmao...why not create a mortgage tied into a life insurance premium then?? im renting till i find the location for my 1000sqft bungalow, somewhere on beach...ill pay for location but i dont need much space...
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30 yr mortgage? lmao...why not create a mortgage tied into a life insurance premium then?? im renting till i find the location for my 1000sqft bungalow, somewhere on beach...ill pay for location but i dont need much space...
so the 10 year is back right about where it was a year ago at this time. Anyone else think we might see it fall back down and re-test the 2.3% lows of early October '10? That's almost a 30% drop from where it is today
what's the best way to bet this scenario?
does direxion have a 3x ETF to bet rates drop
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so the 10 year is back right about where it was a year ago at this time. Anyone else think we might see it fall back down and re-test the 2.3% lows of early October '10? That's almost a 30% drop from where it is today
Agree with all of this except the perception I have that you would be willing to eat the loss on your house.
If the housing market continues to crash, wont there be a point where you decide it is not coming back, you are paying way too much compared to market price for your mortgage, and just make a business decision to walk away? Thats the part that is coming in droves - people just walking because housing values are plummeting and people are realizing "hey, my neighbors house is the same as mine and I can pay 1k a month for his, and I am paying 2k for mine!"
I just dont think you should be "morally" stuck to paying your mortgage, or eating your loss. Fuck it. Everyone else is. Why should you be the only sucker who plays by the rules and pays the cost? In 5 years, you willl be in the minority if you have a credit score above 600. Why be the guy with the 800 who has paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to maintain it for nothing?
I understand where you are coming from, but I just don't think the bottom can fall out any further. But I've been dead wrong before. I honestly haven't explored what happens when you "just walk away" from a house. In other words, is it even possible to get another mortgage? Who wants to lend to a person who has demostrated they will just take off if things go sour?
If we hadn't had the short sales in our area, we'd be in pretty good shape. Yeah, I'd like to do the right thing and not add to the problem, but it's certainly going to have to be a business decision in the end. If it cost me $10K, I'd have no problem. If it was $50K, well that might be a different story. But I don't think it's ever going to get to be that bad. But we'll still have to wait and see.
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
Agree with all of this except the perception I have that you would be willing to eat the loss on your house.
If the housing market continues to crash, wont there be a point where you decide it is not coming back, you are paying way too much compared to market price for your mortgage, and just make a business decision to walk away? Thats the part that is coming in droves - people just walking because housing values are plummeting and people are realizing "hey, my neighbors house is the same as mine and I can pay 1k a month for his, and I am paying 2k for mine!"
I just dont think you should be "morally" stuck to paying your mortgage, or eating your loss. Fuck it. Everyone else is. Why should you be the only sucker who plays by the rules and pays the cost? In 5 years, you willl be in the minority if you have a credit score above 600. Why be the guy with the 800 who has paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to maintain it for nothing?
I understand where you are coming from, but I just don't think the bottom can fall out any further. But I've been dead wrong before. I honestly haven't explored what happens when you "just walk away" from a house. In other words, is it even possible to get another mortgage? Who wants to lend to a person who has demostrated they will just take off if things go sour?
If we hadn't had the short sales in our area, we'd be in pretty good shape. Yeah, I'd like to do the right thing and not add to the problem, but it's certainly going to have to be a business decision in the end. If it cost me $10K, I'd have no problem. If it was $50K, well that might be a different story. But I don't think it's ever going to get to be that bad. But we'll still have to wait and see.
so the 10 year is back right about where it was a year ago at this time. Anyone else think we might see it fall back down and re-test the 2.3% lows of early October '10? That's almost a 30% drop from where it is today
what's the best way to bet this scenario?
does direxion have a 3x ETF to bet rates drop
Well I know Koaj is long the TBT, which is short treasuries..and he is buried in that trade, so they do have an EFT with the ticker UBT that is a DOUBLE Treasury basket, but I think that is a bad trade honestly..not a ton of meat on the bone even if it drops more.
I think there are as many reasons rates go up as go down, the down reasons have to be triggered by the market or a catastrophic event..
But for sure just follow the 10 yr treasury and interest rates are nearly perfectly tied to it.
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Quote Originally Posted by be easy:
so the 10 year is back right about where it was a year ago at this time. Anyone else think we might see it fall back down and re-test the 2.3% lows of early October '10? That's almost a 30% drop from where it is today
what's the best way to bet this scenario?
does direxion have a 3x ETF to bet rates drop
Well I know Koaj is long the TBT, which is short treasuries..and he is buried in that trade, so they do have an EFT with the ticker UBT that is a DOUBLE Treasury basket, but I think that is a bad trade honestly..not a ton of meat on the bone even if it drops more.
I think there are as many reasons rates go up as go down, the down reasons have to be triggered by the market or a catastrophic event..
But for sure just follow the 10 yr treasury and interest rates are nearly perfectly tied to it.
Agree with all of this except the perception I have that you would be willing to eat the loss on your house.
If the housing market continues to crash, wont there be a point where you decide it is not coming back, you are paying way too much compared to market price for your mortgage, and just make a business decision to walk away? Thats the part that is coming in droves - people just walking because housing values are plummeting and people are realizing "hey, my neighbors house is the same as mine and I can pay 1k a month for his, and I am paying 2k for mine!"
I just dont think you should be "morally" stuck to paying your mortgage, or eating your loss. Fuck it. Everyone else is. Why should you be the only sucker who plays by the rules and pays the cost? In 5 years, you willl be in the minority if you have a credit score above 600. Why be the guy with the 800 who has paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to maintain it for nothing?
odd, i swear i remember you being one of the many that ridiculed me in that thread three years ago when i suggested mortgage-debtors should go on strike. Now you are advocating people walking on upside down morts,,,,,
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
Agree with all of this except the perception I have that you would be willing to eat the loss on your house.
If the housing market continues to crash, wont there be a point where you decide it is not coming back, you are paying way too much compared to market price for your mortgage, and just make a business decision to walk away? Thats the part that is coming in droves - people just walking because housing values are plummeting and people are realizing "hey, my neighbors house is the same as mine and I can pay 1k a month for his, and I am paying 2k for mine!"
I just dont think you should be "morally" stuck to paying your mortgage, or eating your loss. Fuck it. Everyone else is. Why should you be the only sucker who plays by the rules and pays the cost? In 5 years, you willl be in the minority if you have a credit score above 600. Why be the guy with the 800 who has paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to maintain it for nothing?
odd, i swear i remember you being one of the many that ridiculed me in that thread three years ago when i suggested mortgage-debtors should go on strike. Now you are advocating people walking on upside down morts,,,,,
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