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Posted: #1
Horse racing will be dead in ten more years if the sport stays the way it is now.Forget putting slots at tracks which only increases purses and doesn't add new fans for racing. I have a few suggestions that may help however some may say that they can't be done.
 
1. Fixed odds betting is a must. The tote is trash and must be dumped.
2. Eliminate claiming races. They cause scratches and short fields because trainers run their horses above their heads in many cases.
3.Bring back true handicap races where top horses carry weight
like 10lbs over the other runners in the field.
4. Race meets would be shortened to a maximum of 32 race days per meet.And only 4 race days per week.
5. No track could card more than 10 races per day.
6. Races where scratches cause less than 5 horses in the race will have their purses cut in half.
7. Only horses that finish in the top four places receive purse money.( some tracks pay a small amount to all runners now).
8. Adopt the harness rule that says only lame or sick horses can be scratched.{this rule is waved for races rained off the turf)
9. Betting closes 1Minute prior to post time. This will help the odds if we don't eliminate the tote so they won't change as the race is running.
10. And finally racing should push congress to raise the amount that causes taxes on two dollar bets from $600 to $1200 like the
casinos.
 
Prospect
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Posted: #2
Well you make some very good points.  I have been playing the horses for about 55 years, the sport has gone to the dogs.  The industry is not interested in bettors making money, just all the folks involved like the owners, breeders, racetrack operators and so forth. I only bet win, place and show bets, the tracks/states take way to much out of the payoffs!  I can''t begin to tell you how many times I haven't been able to get my bet in because some clerk was chatting with a customer or the player is standing there trying to decide their bet while at the window.  The OTB's should not be run by the racetracks.  I finally went to a Kentucky Derby a few years ago, it was a nightmare, Churchill is a dump, hardly any food to buy, to get in cost way too much (think I paid $150.00 for standing room) the worst part was the security, they treated people like animals (rude and nasty).  I really enjoy sports betting now, if the jerks in Washington ever let intenet gambling go forward horseracing is histroy!
 
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Posted: #3
I agree with some of your points. But ending claiming races?  How would races fill? In most tracks the purses for alw races for those cheap horses would have a horse or two that are way too strong for the field. The reason you do not drop a strong horse into these type of races is someone will take him from you. The betting on these races would be 100% about inside info and the public would get disgusted in a hurry.
 
My question about "true handicap races" is won't trainers just avoid those races if the are forced to carry too much?
 
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Posted: #4
The first post talked about attracting new fans.  Racing needs star horses to attract mainstream attention.  It's a tough spot, because owners stand to make alot more money retiring great horses to stud than they do in running them.  Hopefully we'll get to see Rachel vs. Zenyatta.  That'll offer a boost. 
 
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Posted: #5
with 20-30% takeout of the pools everyone will lose in long run
 
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Posted: #6
It's a shame, I love this sport and I'm 27 years old.  It's hard to find many of my friends who share the same love as I do.  I do have a few in my age group but we're brought together by our love of this sport and have little else to talk about.  My "real friends" in my age group don't care much about horse racing except for the Derby and even then it's more about other aspects of the Derby than the race itself.  I hope horse racing is saved
 
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Posted: #7
Believe me when I tell you that there is no one more than me who would love to go to the track and see ZERO claiming races. At my home track, Arlington, we're up to about 6 or 7 each day!
 
I don't think that they'd ever end claiimng races. There are far more cheap horses than those eligible for better conditions, and claims help to set both the value of the horse and provide incentive to get rid of a horse,, if you own it. It's also the easiest way for the average guy, or group of guys/gals to buy a horse, if you are looking to buy one.
 
The other problem with ending claiming races is that there would be a huge problem in buying and selling horses at fair value. In other words, if an owner valued a horse at, say $15,000, but in realiity, that horse might be worth far less. The claiming condition is the only real equalizer to a cheap horse's value (versus a well-bred horse that is sold at auction or through a breeder.)
 
The other reason for keeping claiing races is that it really forces some owners to stay in the game because many of them will take their chances with a bad horse rather than sell it for a loss.
 
The first rule of owning a horse who can't collect a check is to cut your losses..and cut them fast. At $55-$60 per day in the Chicago market, plus vet bills, vanning costs ,etc., it's not a cheap proposition.
 
 
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Posted: #8
Your idea of setting rules for scratches is a good one, but at most track, it won't happen. Here's why. If a track can't fill a race, the secretary will call every trainer in the backsterch who might have a horse eligible. Often times, the trainer will enter the horse just to help fill it (sort of helping out the secretary) and then scratch out.
 
You might get a trainer who has a horse that has a chance of winning a race that might not fill. That trainer might get one of his trainer friends to enter a race so it' fills ad schedules,  as a favor, then scratch out. THe helpful trainer would expect his friend to do the same for him.
 
Now what if I have a full bred turf horse and his turf race goes to the dirt because of weather? I sure as hell wouldn't want to risk my horse going in the slop or on a hard poly after a rain. That's a real legit reason to scratch.
 
Lots of BS and games played. I suspect that Hollywood and Santa Anita, who often go with 4 or 5, would have a real tough time following such a rule.
 
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Posted: #9
Quote Originally Posted by DannoDanger:

The first post talked about attracting new fans.  Racing needs star horses to attract mainstream attention.  It's a tough spot, because owners stand to make alot more money retiring great horses to stud than they do in running them.  Hopefully we'll get to see Rachel vs. Zenyatta.  That'll offer a boost. 

 

BINGO!

too bad there aren't that many good horses who last more than a year or two because they send them to shed...Curlin, Afleet Alex, Smarty Jones and on and  on.

That's like Albert Pujols or Tim Lincecum retiring now. That would surely help to shitify baseball the way it's screwed up the building of racing stars.

 
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Posted: #10
Im from Philly(yes Mikey we pounded your Cubbies) and Smarty Jones triple crown got me into horse racing and i never left it is by far my favorite past time but I only know one person of my age thats cares about it and he only cares about the making money issue I know way too much about stakes horses for a guy my age i travel to all the tracks in my circuit Philly Monmouth Charlestown Belmont Delaware etc.  If a horse could touch a whole city like smarty jones in every city for every triple crown then it could last Zenatta vs. Rachel should be spoken of more on espn instead of another rerun of the WSOP 1998 and maybe people would care more we need them special horses and for their stories to be told
 
 
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Posted: #11
. Fixed odds betting is a must. The tote is trash and must be dumped.
 
WHAT????
 
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Posted: #12
Quote Originally Posted by Kurshka:

. Fixed odds betting is a must. The tote is trash and must be dumped.
 
WHAT????

They do it in england, however here it would be difficult. Horse racing is allowed in I think 48 states. The reason is simple, there is no risk to the house. That is the only reason.

Why is betting on football and baseball illegal but not horses? The simple reason is the house can never lose with parimutuel wagering. Lets not discuss negaitive show pools please. Sports the house had a huge risk and fixed odds in horseracing would be even worse.

You know how many trainers would stiff a horse for a few races in order to get juicy locked in odds they could bury two months down the line? You might as well name Tony Soprano the racing secretary

 
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Posted: #13
In Europe and Austrailia there a very few claiming races and they
seem able to fill their cards. Claiming races were not the norm in the US before WW2. But after the war they wanted to try to get small time owners involved in the game so they came up with more claiming races. Your racing officials could have races like ...
Handicap non-winners of a race in 3 months or a race for 4 year olds who have won 2 races. Other conditions would be for horses who have not won a certain amount of money in their last 10 starts etc. As far as handicap races and trainers scratching horses because of weight that's easy the horse carry's that weight no matter where it runs next at any track in the country this stops tracks from "stealing" top horse to run intheir top races.A horse like Rachel or Zanetta will carry 128 lbs no matter where they run.As far as short fields that would end because there woul be less races and shorter meets so traines would be forced to not scratch because the field comes up tough or because the track is wet. Less is best when it come to total races and race days.
 
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Posted: #14
Quote Originally Posted by DannoDanger:

The first post talked about attracting new fans.  Racing needs star horses to attract mainstream attention.  It's a tough spot, because owners stand to make alot more money retiring great horses to stud than they do in running them.  Hopefully we'll get to see Rachel vs. Zenyatta.  That'll offer a boost. 
The way to atttract new fans to the game is to highlight and promote the one thing that never changes....the opportunity at  "taking down a score" A "SCORE" is the star not the horse!!!  People will show up one day to watch a special horse go off at odds on and pay $3.20...bfd. Show them that real people take down a "score" and show them and teach them how its done and maybe you capture that person as a fan of the game.
 
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Posted: #15
 
 
  Number,
 
 I agree that big scores does add some appeal but the only time we get REAL interest in racing is when we have a super horse. Otherwise it is just the TC and BC day.  A few years back a 2 dollar superfecta paid 1.8 million on derby day and few people noticed. We do not see bigger scores then that even once  a decade.
That is why I am against handicap races, if we pack enough wait on a champion he/she can become just another top contender. That is the worst thing for horseracing in my opinion
 
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Posted: #16
Quote Originally Posted by NFLNightmares:

 
 
  Number,
 
 I agree that big scores does add some appeal but the only time we get REAL interest in racing is when we have a super horse. Otherwise it is just the TC and BC day.  A few years back a 2 dollar superfecta paid 1.8 million on derby day and few people noticed. We do not see bigger scores then that even once  a decade.
That is why I am against handicap races, if we pack enough wait on a champion he/she can become just another top contender. That is the worst thing for horseracing in my opinion
Trying to take the approach that other sports do and "market their stars" is wrong minded. As we all know  horses come and go and sometimes rather quickly and cant be relied upon. The powers to be have to understand that gambling is its lifeblood, and thats what needs to be marketed. Im not talking about 1 million dollar scores, but show people taking down realistic $1000 and $2000 scores on realitively small bets is the way to hook new fans.Then teach them how its done.
 
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Posted: #17
Number,
 
  The more you teach people horse handicapping the more they will realize it is THE MOST difficult sports betting venture. With the highest take out of them all by far.
99% of us bet horses because we love it, but getting an impartial person to embrace horseracing via the gambling angle will be difficult. Because beating the horses even once in a blue moon is difficult.
You talk of 1000 and 2000 dollar scores, how often do 2 dollar bettors hit those? every year or two at best?
 
Prospect
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Posted: #18
NFL...how did you come to love it? For me and everyone i know it revolves around having wining days and weekends and meets.This game is about gambling and the industry neds to embrace that fact. Ive corrupted 8 guys all on my own and now all our vacations  revolve around the races, and the hook is "gambling"....not the ability of 1 or 2 great horses who destroy a small field and pay $3.20....its chasing "THE SCORES".
 
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Posted: #19
1.  Reduce the cut taken by the track on all wagers to 10% or below.  The takeout is a tax.  You want more of something then tax it less.  Reduce the cut and you get more handle.  Make on track handle even lower or give some other edge to those at the facility.
 
2.  Tilt the incentives towards racing beyond the 3YO season.  The connections will still show up for the big 3 YO races because of the prestige.  For example, make the purse for the Santa Anita Derby 200K and make the purse for the Santa Anita Handicap 2 Million (as an example).  Add Grade 1 races for only 4 YO and up with massive purses.  Put these at small venues with slots supporting and you will see the big venues follow suit.  Yes many will still go to stud early but many will stay like a Curlin for a second season for the bigger money.  Lebron James didn't retire after his rookie year did he?
 
3.  At major circuits position stations around the track that offer education and information for younger patrons and families. 
 
4.  Reduce all major circuits to 4 days/week except for Saratoga and Del Mar.
 
5.  Position betting terminals and/or computers inside of sports bars in major cities.  Get the sports fan that likes action to give the game a try.  Many people would not just wander into an OTB.  Placing a bet on a horse should be almost as easy as buying a instant lottery ticket.
 
6.  Put slots at the track.  I have no interest in slots but they will support purses.  Run promos where slots players can earn slots points or goodies for picking races. 
 
MVP
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Posted: #20
NFL...how did you come to love it? For me and everyone i know it revolves around having wining days and weekends and meets.This game is about gambling and the industry neds to embrace that fact. Ive corrupted 8 guys all on my own and now all our vacations  revolve around the races, and the hook is "gambling"....not the ability of 1 or 2 great horses who destroy a small field and pay $3.20....its chasing "THE SCORES".
 
My friend took my to Golden Gate Fields for my first visit. I was eighteen years old. He knew Mel Stutes groom and Mel had a horse in the feature. Horse won and got my photo taken in the winners circle (also have one with Tellys Pop and Kojack among many others) anyway we were drinking beer and just had a blast. After the races we went to Spenglers and ate crab and drank Jack Daniels. Drove home and went strait over to my girlfriends house. Thats when the JD kicked in. Puked all over her parents bathroom. Was a great day and been hooked ever since. Been to every track in California and been on every backside. Got a million stories but three years ago I got married.  So weekend warrior only but flying down to Del Mar for the Classic and another weeked. Pete Yorn playing one of the weekends (I think Classic) Lived in Leaucadia for three years. The best three of my life. Even on a bad day taking the coast hwy home is breathless. Also the babes and beaches are just as breathless.
 
Atlass good to see you back.
Got a form for tomorrow, not playing but surprized at all the cheap claiming races. Correct if I am wrong but hasen`t the Oceanside always been run in two divisions. As far as the race goes waiting for the scracthes but leaning on Mandellas other horse along with Herr Mozart. Want to see who Victor stays with. GL guys hope you all have a great meet.
 
Baffort 
Frankel
  Knapp
 
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Posted: #21
Number,
 
 I was a casual fan growing up, dad and his buddies enjoyed racing. I did not become a true fan of the game till I met a woman in the business and dated her for a year. She was connected to a major barn and owned some breeding  rights and stuff so that is how I got into racing.
 
I will say this that lends credence to your "score theory".  Kursha in his post mentions the oceanside stakes.  The biggest bet I ever had on a single horse was Fantastic fellow in that race, it was like 1997 or something. I do think it ran in divisions back then. Just seeing the reference to that race but a big grin on my face.
 
numbers racing needs more guys like you recruiting new blood.
 
 
 
 
PS   Very well thought out and interesting post atlas, I am still not reading the book though.
 
 
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Posted: #22
NFL, if you like something please chime into one of our sewing meetings. They normally start on Friday.
 
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Posted: #23
Quote Originally Posted by Kurshka:

NFL, if you like something please chime into one of our sewing meetings. They normally start on Fr
iday.

I will pop in fri for sure

 
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Posted: #24
We are a rudderless ship," said longtime breeder Arthur Hancock. "The way we're going, we will all end up on the rocks."

The lack of conformity in the sport is a result of its lack of structure. Racing is essentially run by 38 sets of rules - one for each state in which racing takes place.

"Imagine if the NFL were set up to permit each state to field as many pro teams as it wanted, play as many games as it wanted all year long, and set its own individual football rules. ... Horse racing has been set up in this fashion," ESPN analyst Randy Moss said.

Jockey Club president Marzelli offered hope by pointing out that its safety panel two days ago called for a sweeping ban on anabolic steroids. He expects all horse racing states to adopt the ban.

"We are confident that 2008 will be the last year in which anabolic steroids will be permitted in our sport during training and racing," Marzelli said.

That would have an effect on the methods used by the trainer of Big Brown, the Triple Crown favorite that finished a stunning last in the Belmont Stakes on June 7. Rick Dutrow, who gave a legal steroid to Big Brown through April, was expected tell Congress his side of the story in person, but was a no-show.

Dutrow on Wednesday told the AP that he was too ill to attend, but he remained on the witness list - there was even a symbolic name card for him at the table - because he apparently failed to tell those in charge.

"I'm disappointed by his absence," Schakowsky said. "I'm disappointed that he did not feel the need to notify the subcommittee of his decision."

Dutrow did provide a statement in which he discussed his checkered record, including his use of anabolic steroids on horses.

"My observation is that it helps the horses eat better," the statement said. "Their coats brighten. They're more alert. It helps them train."

Dutrow added that "if steroids are banned in the United States, we'll stop using them."

 
 
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Posted: #25
 Dutrow. Still looking for the one I posted last year.
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