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    All Forums | Horse Racing

    Preakness Anaysis and Picks-- PART I

    mikeyp1
    bobboonehater
    skoda
    angrybarber
    vetdrm
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    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posted: May. 18, 2017 - 10:19 PM ET #1

    My head’s still bleeding from all of the scratching I’ve done about the way the Kentucky Derby unfolded. Not because Always Dreaming won, or that my pick, Classic Empire, lost. Always Dreaming’s victory was very well-earned off an electric performance.

    Like many of you, I simply figured it would be a much more competitive race with Classic Empire, Gunnevera, Irish War Cry, Tapwrit, McCracken and Gormley worthy participants.

    It would be easy to, falsely, attribute the demise of these contenders solely to the great performance of Always Dreaming. As I said, AD’s win was earned. However, none of the aforementioned runners up was worth a dern with, perhaps, the exception of Classic Empire, who had nuthin’ but trouble from the gate and throughout the first half of the race and with mud in eyes.

    Those of you who read the drivel l posted about the preps know that I touted Lookin At Lee as a vast improver and one who would progress in the Kentucky Derby. Indeed, a masterful rail-ride by Lanerie was the key factor in getting Lee to place. However, I have to ask, would the colt have progressed to second place had the others been diligent that day? If Irish War Cry, McCracken, Classic Empire and Tapwrit pressed Always Dreaming at the eight pole, would the results be the same?

    I bring all of this to the surface because the scenario in the Preakness is a similar one. A factor for me in my handicapping is to consider if any of the nine opponents to Always Dreaming is capable of putting in the meaningful work needed to beat the current champ.

    Quite frankly, at the moment, I am not seeing anyone having the running style, tactical acumen and pure talent to beat Always Dreaming. Those of you who are long-time Preaknessphiles know what it takes for a horse to get the tricky 1-3/16 miles distance. Simply put, it ain’t a mile-and-an eighth; and it ain’t a mile-and-a quarter.

    While it doesn’t necessarily take a freak of a horse to figure out this distance from distances it’s raced or has been trained to race, looking at those that have won the Preakness in the past 20 years, seems to me it takes tactics of the combined talents of the trainer, jockey and horse, more so than any other prep or, maybe, even the Derby! Bottom line, no one breeds a horse to run 1-3/16 miles, so the training and riding tactics are critical….no matter how good the horse has performed in the past.

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    My head’s still bleeding from all of the scratching I’ve done about the way the Kentucky Derby unfolded. Not because Always Dreaming won, or that my pick, Classic Empire, lost. Always Dreaming’s victory was very well-earned off an electric performance.

    Like many of you, I simply figured it would be a much more competitive race with Classic Empire, Gunnevera, Irish War Cry, Tapwrit, McCracken and Gormley worthy participants.

    It would be easy to, falsely, attribute the demise of these contenders solely to the great performance of Always Dreaming. As I said, AD’s win was earned. However, none of the aforementioned runners up was worth a dern with, perhaps, the exception of Classic Empire, who had nuthin’ but trouble from the gate and throughout the first half of the race and with mud in eyes.

    Those of you who read the drivel l posted about the preps know that I touted Lookin At Lee as a vast improver and one who would progress in the Kentucky Derby. Indeed, a masterful rail-ride by Lanerie was the key factor in getting Lee to place. However, I have to ask, would the colt have progressed to second place had the others been diligent that day? If Irish War Cry, McCracken, Classic Empire and Tapwrit pressed Always Dreaming at the eight pole, would the results be the same?

    I bring all of this to the surface because the scenario in the Preakness is a similar one. A factor for me in my handicapping is to consider if any of the nine opponents to Always Dreaming is capable of putting in the meaningful work needed to beat the current champ.

    Quite frankly, at the moment, I am not seeing anyone having the running style, tactical acumen and pure talent to beat Always Dreaming. Those of you who are long-time Preaknessphiles know what it takes for a horse to get the tricky 1-3/16 miles distance. Simply put, it ain’t a mile-and-an eighth; and it ain’t a mile-and-a quarter.

    While it doesn’t necessarily take a freak of a horse to figure out this distance from distances it’s raced or has been trained to race, looking at those that have won the Preakness in the past 20 years, seems to me it takes tactics of the combined talents of the trainer, jockey and horse, more so than any other prep or, maybe, even the Derby! Bottom line, no one breeds a horse to run 1-3/16 miles, so the training and riding tactics are critical….no matter how good the horse has performed in the past.

     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posted: May. 18, 2017 - 10:21 PM ET #2

    Look at those who have won the Preakness in recent years, then check the factoid that our Brother in Racing, Midnight1, reported on the forum earlier this week.

    “Some exotics Preakness history includes the winner being 3-1 or less in 13 of the last 16 races.”

    Since 2001, the wining crowd includes American Pharoah, California Chrome, Rachel Alexandra, I’ll Have Another, Big Brown, Curlin, Afleet Alex, Funnycide, Smarty Jones…..every one of them a Hall of Famer, which should leave little doubt why the Preakness winner in 13 of the last 16 races has been 3-1 or less.

    I am not quite yet ready to put Always Dreaming in the team photo with American Pharoah, Curlin and Big Brown, but there is something about the Kentucky Derby that makes most of its winner’s better competitors going forward.

    Here are the facts Midnight provided for us:

    • Jockey Jorge Carreno, on Conquest Mo Money, has won only one graded stakes victory in his career and that was in 2012.

    • Three Straight runner ups have been 10-1 or more.

    • Seven of the last eleven show horses were 10-1 or more.

    • Eight of the last nine Exactas included at least one horse 5-2 or less.

    • Finally, the trifecta has paid under $100 in eight of the last 20 races.    

       

      Here are other nuggets to chew on:

       

    • The Derby winner has won the Preakness 10 of the past 20 years.

    • Regarding runners who did not run in the Derby……Just three of the last 33 Preakness winners didn’t run in the Derby. The three winners are noteworthy: Rachel Alexandra, Bernardini and Red Bullet.

    • Here are the Derby entrants running in the Preakness: Always Dreaming, Lookin At Lee, Classic Empire, Hence and Gunnevera (Your 5 box bet?).

       

      Lots to talk about before Saturday afternoon’s doin’s at Pimlico. What are your thoughts? More of mine Saturday morning.

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    Look at those who have won the Preakness in recent years, then check the factoid that our Brother in Racing, Midnight1, reported on the forum earlier this week.

    “Some exotics Preakness history includes the winner being 3-1 or less in 13 of the last 16 races.”

    Since 2001, the wining crowd includes American Pharoah, California Chrome, Rachel Alexandra, I’ll Have Another, Big Brown, Curlin, Afleet Alex, Funnycide, Smarty Jones…..every one of them a Hall of Famer, which should leave little doubt why the Preakness winner in 13 of the last 16 races has been 3-1 or less.

    I am not quite yet ready to put Always Dreaming in the team photo with American Pharoah, Curlin and Big Brown, but there is something about the Kentucky Derby that makes most of its winner’s better competitors going forward.

    Here are the facts Midnight provided for us:

    • Jockey Jorge Carreno, on Conquest Mo Money, has won only one graded stakes victory in his career and that was in 2012.

    • Three Straight runner ups have been 10-1 or more.

    • Seven of the last eleven show horses were 10-1 or more.

    • Eight of the last nine Exactas included at least one horse 5-2 or less.

    • Finally, the trifecta has paid under $100 in eight of the last 20 races.    

       

      Here are other nuggets to chew on:

       

    • The Derby winner has won the Preakness 10 of the past 20 years.

    • Regarding runners who did not run in the Derby……Just three of the last 33 Preakness winners didn’t run in the Derby. The three winners are noteworthy: Rachel Alexandra, Bernardini and Red Bullet.

    • Here are the Derby entrants running in the Preakness: Always Dreaming, Lookin At Lee, Classic Empire, Hence and Gunnevera (Your 5 box bet?).

       

      Lots to talk about before Saturday afternoon’s doin’s at Pimlico. What are your thoughts? More of mine Saturday morning.

     
    bobboonehater
    bobboonehater
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    Posted: May. 19, 2017 - 9:08 AM ET #3

    I feel like this is simple and I'm making it too hard. Ce had a crap Derby trip but I'm not really sure he could have won with a perfect trip. With these stats I think you have to go American dream 1 then cloud computing hence and conquest mo $ for the trifecta based on tri past history board hitters odds and the style they run.
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    I feel like this is simple and I'm making it too hard. Ce had a crap Derby trip but I'm not really sure he could have won with a perfect trip. With these stats I think you have to go American dream 1 then cloud computing hence and conquest mo $ for the trifecta based on tri past history board hitters odds and the style they run.
     
    skoda
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    Posted: May. 19, 2017 - 9:36 AM ET #4

    Watching Derby in the slop its been said, stay away from rail? Preakness is the 13th race.......  Always Dreaming is the first Derby horse Pletcher has run in the Preakness since Super Saver in 2010. He prefers more time between starts..... 7 Term = Tiznow pedigree........ Weather Ideal..... BOL I'll wait on Part II b4 pulling trigger on Drug Oniel.... already played 5/2479 hoping AD is OOTM
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    Watching Derby in the slop its been said, stay away from rail? Preakness is the 13th race.......  Always Dreaming is the first Derby horse Pletcher has run in the Preakness since Super Saver in 2010. He prefers more time between starts..... 7 Term = Tiznow pedigree........ Weather Ideal..... BOL I'll wait on Part II b4 pulling trigger on Drug Oniel.... already played 5/2479 hoping AD is OOTM
     
    bobboonehater
    bobboonehater
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    Posted: May. 19, 2017 - 10:12 AM ET #5

    I hate the 7 I think he has last place locked up...maybe lee can get 3rd or 4th
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    I hate the 7 I think he has last place locked up...maybe lee can get 3rd or 4th
     
    angrybarber
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    Posted: May. 19, 2017 - 8:18 PM ET #6

    If you paid attention to how track played today before the skies opened up before the Black Eyed Susan, it was extremely speed favoring around 2 turns. If Shamans Ghost wasn't in the Pimlico Special Dolphus would've wired that field by 6. Clearly Shamans Ghost was the class of that field and was winning no matter what. My point is Always Dreaming is going to romp tomorrow, he's not letting CMM get away from him and CE would have to be used early to keep up with AD. It would not surprise me at all if the tri was AD/CE/CMM. Closers have zero shot at winning this race tomorrow. Don't be fooled at how the BES ran that was a terrible race even on paper. None of thise horses wanted 9F and it showed
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    If you paid attention to how track played today before the skies opened up before the Black Eyed Susan, it was extremely speed favoring around 2 turns. If Shamans Ghost wasn't in the Pimlico Special Dolphus would've wired that field by 6. Clearly Shamans Ghost was the class of that field and was winning no matter what. My point is Always Dreaming is going to romp tomorrow, he's not letting CMM get away from him and CE would have to be used early to keep up with AD. It would not surprise me at all if the tri was AD/CE/CMM. Closers have zero shot at winning this race tomorrow. Don't be fooled at how the BES ran that was a terrible race even on paper. None of thise horses wanted 9F and it showed
     
    mikeyp1
    mikeyp1
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    Posted: May. 19, 2017 - 8:34 PM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by angrybarber:

    If you paid attention to how track played today before the skies opened up before the Black Eyed Susan, it was extremely speed favoring around 2 turns. If Shamans Ghost wasn't in the Pimlico Special Dolphus would've wired that field by 6. Clearly Shamans Ghost was the class of that field and was winning no matter what. My point is Always Dreaming is going to romp tomorrow, he's not letting CMM get away from him and CE would have to be used early to keep up with AD. It would not surprise me at all if the tri was AD/CE/CMM. Closers have zero shot at winning this race tomorrow. Don't be fooled at how the BES ran that was a terrible race even on paper. None of thise horses wanted 9F and it showed

    TAKE Note Cappers and Cappets atThe Barber's observations...

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    Quote Originally Posted by angrybarber:

    If you paid attention to how track played today before the skies opened up before the Black Eyed Susan, it was extremely speed favoring around 2 turns. If Shamans Ghost wasn't in the Pimlico Special Dolphus would've wired that field by 6. Clearly Shamans Ghost was the class of that field and was winning no matter what. My point is Always Dreaming is going to romp tomorrow, he's not letting CMM get away from him and CE would have to be used early to keep up with AD. It would not surprise me at all if the tri was AD/CE/CMM. Closers have zero shot at winning this race tomorrow. Don't be fooled at how the BES ran that was a terrible race even on paper. None of thise horses wanted 9F and it showed

    TAKE Note Cappers and Cappets atThe Barber's observations...

     
     
    vetdrm
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    Posted: May. 19, 2017 - 10:25 PM ET #8

    Gl tomorrow Gentlemen  

    I am playing 

     6 to win

    all/6/all Trifecta 

    2/6/all trifecta box

    6 to win
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    Gl tomorrow Gentlemen  

    I am playing 

     6 to win

    all/6/all Trifecta 

    2/6/all trifecta box

    6 to win
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