pretty even through the middle of the second round, they got in a scramble on the feet and went to the mat and vagner fell right into a choke, the choke was already in super deep, little flukish but that kid for sure is a monster.
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pretty even through the middle of the second round, they got in a scramble on the feet and went to the mat and vagner fell right into a choke, the choke was already in super deep, little flukish but that kid for sure is a monster.
pretty even through the middle of the second round, they got in a scramble on the feet and went to the mat and vagner fell right into a choke, the choke was already in super deep, little flukish but that kid for sure is a monster.
He was dominated from the git-go. I don't mind losing on your tip, especially on a dog, but come-on your guy isn't UFC quality and was beaten pillar to post. This dog didn't bark at all. Cut the mutt.
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Quote Originally Posted by MurkCity:
pretty even through the middle of the second round, they got in a scramble on the feet and went to the mat and vagner fell right into a choke, the choke was already in super deep, little flukish but that kid for sure is a monster.
He was dominated from the git-go. I don't mind losing on your tip, especially on a dog, but come-on your guy isn't UFC quality and was beaten pillar to post. This dog didn't bark at all. Cut the mutt.
Oh well...Jake Matthews is for real. [/Quotejake matthews is for real because he beat a guy who is 1-3 in the ufc who hasnt fought in a year and coming off an injury?oh my.
You could look at it like that. Or you could say, at age 20, he submitted a very legit black belt and dominated him in every single area of the game.
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Quote Originally Posted by Qncyk1:
Quote Originally Posted by JimGunn:
Oh well...Jake Matthews is for real. [/Quotejake matthews is for real because he beat a guy who is 1-3 in the ufc who hasnt fought in a year and coming off an injury?oh my.
You could look at it like that. Or you could say, at age 20, he submitted a very legit black belt and dominated him in every single area of the game.
He was dominated from the git-go. I don't mind losing on your tip, especially on a dog, but come-on your guy isn't UFC quality and was beaten pillar to post. This dog didn't bark at all. Cut the mutt.
took a shot on a +300 dog, liked my odds going into the second, I would definitely not say he was dominated on the feet..he was landing some good counter punches. The fight stayed on the feet the entire time and this was just not good for vagner, which is pretty obvious. I don't understand what your trying to say? I took my loss like a man, I didn't have any excuses...
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Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:
He was dominated from the git-go. I don't mind losing on your tip, especially on a dog, but come-on your guy isn't UFC quality and was beaten pillar to post. This dog didn't bark at all. Cut the mutt.
took a shot on a +300 dog, liked my odds going into the second, I would definitely not say he was dominated on the feet..he was landing some good counter punches. The fight stayed on the feet the entire time and this was just not good for vagner, which is pretty obvious. I don't understand what your trying to say? I took my loss like a man, I didn't have any excuses...
for a mixed martial arts fight, Matthews was just too much, he looked like 20lbs heavier than rocha, all muscle. Grappling could have a different outcome, but standing on the feet with a guy twice your size like rocha did isn't the key to a victory. Just a sitting duck waiting to get attacked.
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for a mixed martial arts fight, Matthews was just too much, he looked like 20lbs heavier than rocha, all muscle. Grappling could have a different outcome, but standing on the feet with a guy twice your size like rocha did isn't the key to a victory. Just a sitting duck waiting to get attacked.
That's really all I needed to read. He has a second stripe from Popovitch. He doesn't have a black belt from a snake oil salesman in some favela in Rio.
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"Being a black belt in Brazil is nothing special"
That's really all I needed to read. He has a second stripe from Popovitch. He doesn't have a black belt from a snake oil salesman in some favela in Rio.
That's really all I needed to read. He has a second stripe from Popovitch. He doesn't have a black belt from a snake oil salesman in some favela in Rio.
has rocha won or competed in any grappling or jiu jitsu tournaments?
at the ufc level black belts do not mean nearly as you might think, that is, if you follow the sport
jon jones blue belt jiu jitsu
daniel cormier brown belt jiu jitsu
demetrius johnson blue belt jiu jitsu
chris weidman brown belt jiu jitsu
anthony pettis brown belt jiu jitsu
johhny hendricks blue belt jiu jitsu
tj dillishaw jiu jitsu belt unknown
ronda rousey jiu jitsu belt unknown
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Quote Originally Posted by OnTheO:
"Being a black belt in Brazil is nothing special"
That's really all I needed to read. He has a second stripe from Popovitch. He doesn't have a black belt from a snake oil salesman in some favela in Rio.
has rocha won or competed in any grappling or jiu jitsu tournaments?
at the ufc level black belts do not mean nearly as you might think, that is, if you follow the sport
pretty even through the middle of the second round, they got in a scramble on the feet and went to the mat and vagner fell right into a choke, the choke was already in super deep, little flukish but that kid for sure is a monster.
this actually did seem like a bit of an excuse and made it out to make it sound like Matthews got "lucky" a bit. Pretty even through the middle of the 2nd? I don't know about that. Scramble on the feet and Vagner "fell right into a choke"? lol if you call getting punched and rocked square in the face and being knocked over a "scramble" then I guess we will have to agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with taking a flier on an underdog but don't make it sound like it was "fluky" the way Matthews one....he knocked him right in the face and caused the "scramble"
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Quote Originally Posted by MurkCity:
pretty even through the middle of the second round, they got in a scramble on the feet and went to the mat and vagner fell right into a choke, the choke was already in super deep, little flukish but that kid for sure is a monster.
this actually did seem like a bit of an excuse and made it out to make it sound like Matthews got "lucky" a bit. Pretty even through the middle of the 2nd? I don't know about that. Scramble on the feet and Vagner "fell right into a choke"? lol if you call getting punched and rocked square in the face and being knocked over a "scramble" then I guess we will have to agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with taking a flier on an underdog but don't make it sound like it was "fluky" the way Matthews one....he knocked him right in the face and caused the "scramble"
"Being a black belt in Brazil is nothing special"That's really all I needed to read. He has a second stripe from Popovitch. He doesn't have a black belt from a snake oil salesman in some favela in Rio.
has rocha won or competed in any grappling or jiu jitsu tournaments?at the ufc level black belts do not mean nearly as you might think, that is, if you follow the sportjon jones blue belt jiu jitsudaniel cormier brown belt jiu jitsu demetrius johnson blue belt jiu jitsuchris weidman brown belt jiu jitsuanthony pettis brown belt jiu jitsujohhny hendricks blue belt jiu jitsutj dillishaw jiu jitsu belt unknown ronda rousey jiu jitsu belt unknown
1. Tournaments are not the standard. There are plenty of high level blacks who don't compete for one reason or another. A guy like Pablo is not going to attach his name/brand/reputation to promoting someone to a second stripe if he isn't legit. 2. Those people you listed don't really train BJJ in a gi. They have a different background in a different grappling art (either wrestling or judo) where they only supplement their main art with BJJ. If they wanted or desired to focus on gi training, they could be black belts. But that's not their focus. 3. You keep insinuating that I don't follow the sport. You're right, this was my first event I've watched.
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Quote Originally Posted by Qncyk1:
Quote Originally Posted by OnTheO:
"Being a black belt in Brazil is nothing special"That's really all I needed to read. He has a second stripe from Popovitch. He doesn't have a black belt from a snake oil salesman in some favela in Rio.
has rocha won or competed in any grappling or jiu jitsu tournaments?at the ufc level black belts do not mean nearly as you might think, that is, if you follow the sportjon jones blue belt jiu jitsudaniel cormier brown belt jiu jitsu demetrius johnson blue belt jiu jitsuchris weidman brown belt jiu jitsuanthony pettis brown belt jiu jitsujohhny hendricks blue belt jiu jitsutj dillishaw jiu jitsu belt unknown ronda rousey jiu jitsu belt unknown
1. Tournaments are not the standard. There are plenty of high level blacks who don't compete for one reason or another. A guy like Pablo is not going to attach his name/brand/reputation to promoting someone to a second stripe if he isn't legit. 2. Those people you listed don't really train BJJ in a gi. They have a different background in a different grappling art (either wrestling or judo) where they only supplement their main art with BJJ. If they wanted or desired to focus on gi training, they could be black belts. But that's not their focus. 3. You keep insinuating that I don't follow the sport. You're right, this was my first event I've watched.
has rocha won or competed in any grappling or jiu jitsu tournaments?at the ufc level black belts do not mean nearly as you might think, that is, if you follow the sportjon jones blue belt jiu jitsudaniel cormier brown belt jiu jitsu demetrius johnson blue belt jiu jitsuchris weidman brown belt jiu jitsuanthony pettis brown belt jiu jitsujohhny hendricks blue belt jiu jitsutj dillishaw jiu jitsu belt unknown ronda rousey jiu jitsu belt unknown
1. Tournaments are not the standard. There are plenty of high level blacks who don't compete for one reason or another. A guy like Pablo is not going to attach his name/brand/reputation to promoting someone to a second stripe if he isn't legit. 2. Those people you listed don't really train BJJ in a gi. They have a different background in a different grappling art (either wrestling or judo) where they only supplement their main art with BJJ. If they wanted or desired to focus on gi training, they could be black belts. But that's not their focus. 3. You keep insinuating that I don't follow the sport. You're right, this was my first event I've watched.
if you are capping ufc fights, as opposed to ifl, koc or wec, a black belt in bjj has signifiganctly less value because all the fighters now have the skill set to make an ordinary black belt such as rocha pretty much irrelevant
1. okay, you have a point. just the same as there may be numerous lebron james playing pick-up games on saturday at the local ymca we will never know about. same case for rocha. he could be a world jiu jitsu champion that just never competed for whatever reason.
2. because someone is a black belt in bjj does not equate to success nor his ranking as a fighter.
i dont think anyone is going to confuse vagner rocha with decorated grappler and adcc gold winner roger gracie anytime soon who is now regulated to fighitng in some shi-thole in the philippines under the one fc banner
3. anyone that follows the sport would not be putting too much into a win over vagner rocha. a solid win for a prospect such as matthews but its not like he beat a danny castillo and even then i still wouldnt be using the words "real deal" or "monster."
and if this thread never existed where a poster built up vagner rocha i can guarantee there wouldnt be a single person here using those words to describe jake matthews
im not even seeing those words being used to describe iaquintas win over pearson
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Quote Originally Posted by OnTheO:
has rocha won or competed in any grappling or jiu jitsu tournaments?at the ufc level black belts do not mean nearly as you might think, that is, if you follow the sportjon jones blue belt jiu jitsudaniel cormier brown belt jiu jitsu demetrius johnson blue belt jiu jitsuchris weidman brown belt jiu jitsuanthony pettis brown belt jiu jitsujohhny hendricks blue belt jiu jitsutj dillishaw jiu jitsu belt unknown ronda rousey jiu jitsu belt unknown
1. Tournaments are not the standard. There are plenty of high level blacks who don't compete for one reason or another. A guy like Pablo is not going to attach his name/brand/reputation to promoting someone to a second stripe if he isn't legit. 2. Those people you listed don't really train BJJ in a gi. They have a different background in a different grappling art (either wrestling or judo) where they only supplement their main art with BJJ. If they wanted or desired to focus on gi training, they could be black belts. But that's not their focus. 3. You keep insinuating that I don't follow the sport. You're right, this was my first event I've watched.
if you are capping ufc fights, as opposed to ifl, koc or wec, a black belt in bjj has signifiganctly less value because all the fighters now have the skill set to make an ordinary black belt such as rocha pretty much irrelevant
1. okay, you have a point. just the same as there may be numerous lebron james playing pick-up games on saturday at the local ymca we will never know about. same case for rocha. he could be a world jiu jitsu champion that just never competed for whatever reason.
2. because someone is a black belt in bjj does not equate to success nor his ranking as a fighter.
i dont think anyone is going to confuse vagner rocha with decorated grappler and adcc gold winner roger gracie anytime soon who is now regulated to fighitng in some shi-thole in the philippines under the one fc banner
3. anyone that follows the sport would not be putting too much into a win over vagner rocha. a solid win for a prospect such as matthews but its not like he beat a danny castillo and even then i still wouldnt be using the words "real deal" or "monster."
and if this thread never existed where a poster built up vagner rocha i can guarantee there wouldnt be a single person here using those words to describe jake matthews
im not even seeing those words being used to describe iaquintas win over pearson
So "real deal" or "monster" mean different things to you and I. I equate it to saying "that's an impressive win for a 20 year-old". You equate it with "this guy is the next Anderson".
How many 20 year-olds have choked out Roger in mma? I'll wait.
This isn't pick-up basketball at the Y. The dude runs his own gym in a top 5 BJJ community in the US (Miami) and is a veteran fighter in a bunch of major orgs. Here's what happens when you run a gym. Guys come in from other areas/schools all the time to see how they line up. If they can beat the guy that runs the gym, who fights in the ufc, and who is a 2 stripe under Pablo Popovitch, of all people, the BJJ community in that area knows your gym is being taught by a fake black, possibly the worst thing that can happen to a gym.
List some fighters who have black belts who've been submitted this year in the ufc. It doesn't mean anything, so it should happen all the time.
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So "real deal" or "monster" mean different things to you and I. I equate it to saying "that's an impressive win for a 20 year-old". You equate it with "this guy is the next Anderson".
How many 20 year-olds have choked out Roger in mma? I'll wait.
This isn't pick-up basketball at the Y. The dude runs his own gym in a top 5 BJJ community in the US (Miami) and is a veteran fighter in a bunch of major orgs. Here's what happens when you run a gym. Guys come in from other areas/schools all the time to see how they line up. If they can beat the guy that runs the gym, who fights in the ufc, and who is a 2 stripe under Pablo Popovitch, of all people, the BJJ community in that area knows your gym is being taught by a fake black, possibly the worst thing that can happen to a gym.
List some fighters who have black belts who've been submitted this year in the ufc. It doesn't mean anything, so it should happen all the time.
So "real deal" or "monster" mean different things to you and I. I equate it to saying "that's an impressive win for a 20 year-old". You equate it with "this guy is the next Anderson".
How many 20 year-olds have choked out Roger in mma? I'll wait.
This isn't pick-up basketball at the Y. The dude runs his own gym in a top 5 BJJ community in the US (Miami) and is a veteran fighter in a bunch of major orgs. Here's what happens when you run a gym. Guys come in from other areas/schools all the time to see how they line up. If they can beat the guy that runs the gym, who fights in the ufc, and who is a 2 stripe under Pablo Popovitch, of all people, the BJJ community in that area knows your gym is being taught by a fake black, possibly the worst thing that can happen to a gym.
List some fighters who have black belts who've been submitted this year in the ufc. It doesn't mean anything, so it should happen all the time.
chocked out?
rocha got caught on his chin with a right cross from a matthews elbow, was pretty much out of it, and then matthews chocked him out which is what any mma fighter with six months experience wouldve done
go over to the sher-dog forums
theres not one thread even mentioning this fight let alone appointing matthews the real deal monster that he has far from proven to be because he beat some guy that has been regulated to fighting on some regional circuit. rochas basically fighting to what would equate to as a new york golden gloves type level operation, if even that. i would be surprised if the ufc even matched matched up with a 40-year-old yves edwards who would toy this kid
like i said, if there wasnt a thread here from somebody selling vager rocha there wouldnt be a single person even mentioning the name jake matthews
i have no idea who would use the words real deal or monster to describe jake matthews
its kind of funny
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Quote Originally Posted by OnTheO:
So "real deal" or "monster" mean different things to you and I. I equate it to saying "that's an impressive win for a 20 year-old". You equate it with "this guy is the next Anderson".
How many 20 year-olds have choked out Roger in mma? I'll wait.
This isn't pick-up basketball at the Y. The dude runs his own gym in a top 5 BJJ community in the US (Miami) and is a veteran fighter in a bunch of major orgs. Here's what happens when you run a gym. Guys come in from other areas/schools all the time to see how they line up. If they can beat the guy that runs the gym, who fights in the ufc, and who is a 2 stripe under Pablo Popovitch, of all people, the BJJ community in that area knows your gym is being taught by a fake black, possibly the worst thing that can happen to a gym.
List some fighters who have black belts who've been submitted this year in the ufc. It doesn't mean anything, so it should happen all the time.
chocked out?
rocha got caught on his chin with a right cross from a matthews elbow, was pretty much out of it, and then matthews chocked him out which is what any mma fighter with six months experience wouldve done
go over to the sher-dog forums
theres not one thread even mentioning this fight let alone appointing matthews the real deal monster that he has far from proven to be because he beat some guy that has been regulated to fighting on some regional circuit. rochas basically fighting to what would equate to as a new york golden gloves type level operation, if even that. i would be surprised if the ufc even matched matched up with a 40-year-old yves edwards who would toy this kid
like i said, if there wasnt a thread here from somebody selling vager rocha there wouldnt be a single person even mentioning the name jake matthews
i have no idea who would use the words real deal or monster to describe jake matthews
If Sherdog is your barometer of success, then I can see why you refuse to give credit to the kid.
Rocha was knocked on his butt (which helps my point, thank you), but Rocha wasn't out of it when Matthews sunk the joke. When people are out it, they act like Dylan Andrews. Rocha attempted a hip escape to unwind the choke, Matthews followed, tightened, and finished with a modified bulldog. They both completed 2-3 transition techniques each between the first attempt and the finish and Matthews beat him in transition.
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If Sherdog is your barometer of success, then I can see why you refuse to give credit to the kid.
Rocha was knocked on his butt (which helps my point, thank you), but Rocha wasn't out of it when Matthews sunk the joke. When people are out it, they act like Dylan Andrews. Rocha attempted a hip escape to unwind the choke, Matthews followed, tightened, and finished with a modified bulldog. They both completed 2-3 transition techniques each between the first attempt and the finish and Matthews beat him in transition.
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