Seriously? Biggio didn't make it? 3,000 hits and his versatility? What a disgrace. You know he's going in eventually...why do these clowns make certain players wait? Disgusting.
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Seriously? Biggio didn't make it? 3,000 hits and his versatility? What a disgrace. You know he's going in eventually...why do these clowns make certain players wait? Disgusting.
i don't understand why they even let writers vote, it's a joke, half of these guys prob don't even watch baseball, barry bonds is a hall of fame player and it's ridiclious he didn't get on the first ballot, like that guy just said on mlb network if a writer doesn't vote for greg maddux next year he shouldn't have a vote, he should have 100 percent of the votes
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i don't understand why they even let writers vote, it's a joke, half of these guys prob don't even watch baseball, barry bonds is a hall of fame player and it's ridiclious he didn't get on the first ballot, like that guy just said on mlb network if a writer doesn't vote for greg maddux next year he shouldn't have a vote, he should have 100 percent of the votes
if a writer doesn't vote for greg maddux next year he shouldn't have a vote, he should have 100 percent of the votes
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Absolutely. I can understand how people might change their mind on someone like Blyleven....or Jim Rice.....or Jack Morris. But there is absolutely no excuse for not voting for someone like Maddux or Randy Johnson or Glavine or Biggio.
Biggio with those stats......played THREE positions extensively including catcher. There is no one else like him....in the history of baseball.
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if a writer doesn't vote for greg maddux next year he shouldn't have a vote, he should have 100 percent of the votes
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Absolutely. I can understand how people might change their mind on someone like Blyleven....or Jim Rice.....or Jack Morris. But there is absolutely no excuse for not voting for someone like Maddux or Randy Johnson or Glavine or Biggio.
Biggio with those stats......played THREE positions extensively including catcher. There is no one else like him....in the history of baseball.
craig biggio will get in no doubts, i guess some of the baseball writers feel he's not a first ballot hall of famer , i saw on the baseball writers of america website they had some peoples votes who shared them and like 2 guys only voted for morris, that's a joke, and one lady voted for shawn green i mean cmon, biggio will get in prob take a few years,
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craig biggio will get in no doubts, i guess some of the baseball writers feel he's not a first ballot hall of famer , i saw on the baseball writers of america website they had some peoples votes who shared them and like 2 guys only voted for morris, that's a joke, and one lady voted for shawn green i mean cmon, biggio will get in prob take a few years,
Well, Hutch, we can forever argue over who should or should not be in but what pisses me off is the guys that are still eligible for the ballot that should have been shut out immediately and no longer appear. Let them try to live another 15 years and hope the old timers committee is senile by then.
Roger Clemens 214 (37.6%) 1
Barry Bonds 206 (36.2%) 1
Edgar Martinez 204 (35.9%) 4
Alan Trammell 191 (33.6%) 12
Larry Walker 123 (21.6%) 3
Fred McGriff 118 (20.7%) 4
Dale Murphy 106 (18.6%) 15 Mark McGwire 96 (16.9%) 7
Don Mattingly 75 (13.2%) 13 Sammy Sosa 71 (12.5%) 1
Rafael Palmeiro 50 (8.8%) 3
Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
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Well, Hutch, we can forever argue over who should or should not be in but what pisses me off is the guys that are still eligible for the ballot that should have been shut out immediately and no longer appear. Let them try to live another 15 years and hope the old timers committee is senile by then.
Roger Clemens 214 (37.6%) 1
Barry Bonds 206 (36.2%) 1
Edgar Martinez 204 (35.9%) 4
Alan Trammell 191 (33.6%) 12
Larry Walker 123 (21.6%) 3
Fred McGriff 118 (20.7%) 4
Dale Murphy 106 (18.6%) 15 Mark McGwire 96 (16.9%) 7
Don Mattingly 75 (13.2%) 13 Sammy Sosa 71 (12.5%) 1
Rafael Palmeiro 50 (8.8%) 3
3000 hits is still a magical number, unlike 400, 500 or even 600 home runs. Biggio will get in and I would have ored for him this year. I want to know who the jack in the box is that voted for Aaron Sele.
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3000 hits is still a magical number, unlike 400, 500 or even 600 home runs. Biggio will get in and I would have ored for him this year. I want to know who the jack in the box is that voted for Aaron Sele.
KeyElement.. you think Barry Bonds should be shut out immediately with no shot at the HOF? Because he did steroids when it was highly unregulated and wasn't being tested for? Blame baseball, don't punish Barry. Give anyone else all the steroids you want and I guarantee you they will not put up the numbers Barry did in his career. Some of his records are astonishing.
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KeyElement.. you think Barry Bonds should be shut out immediately with no shot at the HOF? Because he did steroids when it was highly unregulated and wasn't being tested for? Blame baseball, don't punish Barry. Give anyone else all the steroids you want and I guarantee you they will not put up the numbers Barry did in his career. Some of his records are astonishing.
The biggest crime by any of these guys is that most of them could have been HOF'ers without roids, but they willingly CHOSE to cheat the game. For what? MORE money, MORE records, MORE perqs and benefits than lesser players. Now you say, "Reward Them", "give them what they want!" "Give them the keys to the castle!" "Enshrine them for posterity!" Bull__t, there is a price to be paid for that kind of behavior and they should pay it. The bill has come due. You danced, now pay the fiddler.
Now and then even a BLIND squirrel can find an acorn
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The biggest crime by any of these guys is that most of them could have been HOF'ers without roids, but they willingly CHOSE to cheat the game. For what? MORE money, MORE records, MORE perqs and benefits than lesser players. Now you say, "Reward Them", "give them what they want!" "Give them the keys to the castle!" "Enshrine them for posterity!" Bull__t, there is a price to be paid for that kind of behavior and they should pay it. The bill has come due. You danced, now pay the fiddler.
But they didn't break any rules. They didn't steal signs. They didn't alter the baseball to benefit them. They didn't sharpen their cleats to take out other players from the game. They didn't cheat the game. There was no testing for steroids during that time.
MLB and Bud Selig knew what was going on and chose not to really implement more broad testing until 2003, 5 years after Mark McGwire broke the HR record. Bud Selig turned his back to steroid usage until he was forced to do something. Baseball in general was losing interest and steroids was bringing fans to watch because of the offensive output. For every one guy that there is suspicion of steroid use, there's 1000 others that are going undetected. I believe it was a level playing field and the vast majority of player were doing it in some way shape or form. The pitchers throwing Bonds the pitches were probably juicin too. It's the way the game has evolved.
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But they didn't break any rules. They didn't steal signs. They didn't alter the baseball to benefit them. They didn't sharpen their cleats to take out other players from the game. They didn't cheat the game. There was no testing for steroids during that time.
MLB and Bud Selig knew what was going on and chose not to really implement more broad testing until 2003, 5 years after Mark McGwire broke the HR record. Bud Selig turned his back to steroid usage until he was forced to do something. Baseball in general was losing interest and steroids was bringing fans to watch because of the offensive output. For every one guy that there is suspicion of steroid use, there's 1000 others that are going undetected. I believe it was a level playing field and the vast majority of player were doing it in some way shape or form. The pitchers throwing Bonds the pitches were probably juicin too. It's the way the game has evolved.
Well, Hutch, we can forever argue over who should or should not be in but what pisses me off is the guys that are still eligible for the ballot that should have been shut out immediately and no longer appear. Let them try to live another 15 years and hope the old timers committee is senile by then.
Roger Clemens 214 (37.6%) 1
Barry Bonds 206 (36.2%) 1
Edgar Martinez 204 (35.9%) 4
Alan Trammell 191 (33.6%) 12
Larry Walker 123 (21.6%) 3
Fred McGriff 118 (20.7%) 4
Dale Murphy 106 (18.6%) 15 Mark McGwire 96 (16.9%) 7
Don Mattingly 75 (13.2%) 13 Sammy Sosa 71 (12.5%) 1
Rafael Palmeiro 50 (8.8%) 3
I think we are mostly in agreement. Do I think Clemens juiced? Yeah. But he never tested positive and he was acquitted recently of all charges. Depends on how much stock you put in, "I think."
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Quote Originally Posted by KeyElement:
Well, Hutch, we can forever argue over who should or should not be in but what pisses me off is the guys that are still eligible for the ballot that should have been shut out immediately and no longer appear. Let them try to live another 15 years and hope the old timers committee is senile by then.
Roger Clemens 214 (37.6%) 1
Barry Bonds 206 (36.2%) 1
Edgar Martinez 204 (35.9%) 4
Alan Trammell 191 (33.6%) 12
Larry Walker 123 (21.6%) 3
Fred McGriff 118 (20.7%) 4
Dale Murphy 106 (18.6%) 15 Mark McGwire 96 (16.9%) 7
Don Mattingly 75 (13.2%) 13 Sammy Sosa 71 (12.5%) 1
Rafael Palmeiro 50 (8.8%) 3
I think we are mostly in agreement. Do I think Clemens juiced? Yeah. But he never tested positive and he was acquitted recently of all charges. Depends on how much stock you put in, "I think."
and Clemens? 7 CY Youngs and you're going to deny him? that will never be accomplished in our lifetime again.
Clemens and Bonds were never convicted of steroid use. You're going to keep them out of the game based on suspicion?
yeah, i'm comfortable in my belief that bonds, clemens and sosa used steroids. i don't need a a bunch of strangers on a jury who only hear part of the story in a system where money is the most important factor to tell me what to think about this issue.
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Quote Originally Posted by dimndimn:
and Clemens? 7 CY Youngs and you're going to deny him? that will never be accomplished in our lifetime again.
Clemens and Bonds were never convicted of steroid use. You're going to keep them out of the game based on suspicion?
yeah, i'm comfortable in my belief that bonds, clemens and sosa used steroids. i don't need a a bunch of strangers on a jury who only hear part of the story in a system where money is the most important factor to tell me what to think about this issue.
yeah, i'm comfortable in my belief that bonds, clemens and sosa used steroids. i don't need a a bunch of strangers on a jury who only hear part of the story in a system where money is the most important factor to tell me what to think about this issue.
Honestly, I agree that those three did do steroids. But who are the BBWAA to be the jury and persecute them? When they did steroids, they weren't illegal. Maybe steroids are frowned upon, but so is a pitcher throwing at a batters head.
and what about Piazza? Strong suspicion he did steroids also, just stayed out of the light. The facts are we don't know who really did and who really didn't because it wasn't monitored as it is today. You can't exclude some and include others. You can't exclude them all either. This was the steroid era.
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
yeah, i'm comfortable in my belief that bonds, clemens and sosa used steroids. i don't need a a bunch of strangers on a jury who only hear part of the story in a system where money is the most important factor to tell me what to think about this issue.
Honestly, I agree that those three did do steroids. But who are the BBWAA to be the jury and persecute them? When they did steroids, they weren't illegal. Maybe steroids are frowned upon, but so is a pitcher throwing at a batters head.
and what about Piazza? Strong suspicion he did steroids also, just stayed out of the light. The facts are we don't know who really did and who really didn't because it wasn't monitored as it is today. You can't exclude some and include others. You can't exclude them all either. This was the steroid era.
i get your point. and i don't think baseball just allowed it to happen, they encouraged it to happen. they made a shitload of money off of mcguire and bonds, etc. but i consider it cheating, i think steroids were illegal, as in against the law, even if baseball couldn't get their garbage together and i sympathize with the oldtimers who got to the hall of fame the right way and don't want to be associated with the steroid crowd.
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i get your point. and i don't think baseball just allowed it to happen, they encouraged it to happen. they made a shitload of money off of mcguire and bonds, etc. but i consider it cheating, i think steroids were illegal, as in against the law, even if baseball couldn't get their garbage together and i sympathize with the oldtimers who got to the hall of fame the right way and don't want to be associated with the steroid crowd.
but back to the original thread.. Biggio? The fact he wasn't voted in first time shows how flawed and political the process really is. Do they vote three players in next year? Morris, Biggio and Maddux? This steroid discussion/controversy will most likely go on for 2-3 years until they figure out the best way to handle it.
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but back to the original thread.. Biggio? The fact he wasn't voted in first time shows how flawed and political the process really is. Do they vote three players in next year? Morris, Biggio and Maddux? This steroid discussion/controversy will most likely go on for 2-3 years until they figure out the best way to handle it.
Not rating Rizzuto but I love your other premise. Trammel-Whitaker was the best middle infield ever. Bank it.
One of the greatest injustices of Hall of Fame voting is Lou Whitaker. Comparable to Ryne Sandberg and Joe Morgan who are got the call and Sweet Lou didn't get the 5% on his first ballot and falls off? The Veterens committee when it is time should rectify this injustice and put him and Tram in together. They were the best double play combo in my lifetime hands down and their play together pushes them over the top, this is a case where there is more to it than just stats.
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Quote Originally Posted by KeyElement:
Not rating Rizzuto but I love your other premise. Trammel-Whitaker was the best middle infield ever. Bank it.
One of the greatest injustices of Hall of Fame voting is Lou Whitaker. Comparable to Ryne Sandberg and Joe Morgan who are got the call and Sweet Lou didn't get the 5% on his first ballot and falls off? The Veterens committee when it is time should rectify this injustice and put him and Tram in together. They were the best double play combo in my lifetime hands down and their play together pushes them over the top, this is a case where there is more to it than just stats.
Just look at and listen to some of the voters who decide the fate of
these guys. Most of them picked up jock straps in their team's locker
rooms when in school. Most have no clue what the process is really
about. Perhaps it's their chance to stick it to any malcontent player
that they had an issue with, or who didn't suck up to them. Maybe the
players should have a say in the election process. They know who
deserves to go in as much as anyone.
I for one, didn't give a
rat's behind about players taking steroids. It is still a highly skilled
sport, and the benefits of taking steroids only went so far. If they
wanted today's glory at the risk of their future health, let them roll
the dice. I believe that they were considered adults, at least in age at
the time.
"Bud Lite" wanted butts in the seats, and ...well you
know the rest. While Selig has done some good things for the game, this
era is on him as well. I wonder if the writers will keep him out for
his part, when his name comes up?
Biggio's omission is a joke.
Class guy, great player to only get 68% is a travesty. Piazza should be
in there as well. He did not get a ringing endorsement from his mentor,
Tommy LaSorda. Interesting that TL said that he hoped he never took
steroids. Not a definitive no way, no doubt about it comment that he was
noted for. Still his play on the field was exceptional, just like
Roger, Sammy, Barry, Mark, and the list goes on and on.
These two
will probably not get in next year as well. With the Big 3 eligible
among other quality first timers, hard to see 5 or 6 on the stage at
once. Biggio will get in at some point. It would have been a perfect
time to give him his day in the spotlight this year. Instead we are
preparing for the Ford Frick award winner induction. I bet that the town
of Cooperstown will be adding extra security and traffic personnel for
that induction. Count me in as one of 73 people who will be watching
that ceremony on the MLB Network. NOT.
One Rambling Man's Opinion
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Just look at and listen to some of the voters who decide the fate of
these guys. Most of them picked up jock straps in their team's locker
rooms when in school. Most have no clue what the process is really
about. Perhaps it's their chance to stick it to any malcontent player
that they had an issue with, or who didn't suck up to them. Maybe the
players should have a say in the election process. They know who
deserves to go in as much as anyone.
I for one, didn't give a
rat's behind about players taking steroids. It is still a highly skilled
sport, and the benefits of taking steroids only went so far. If they
wanted today's glory at the risk of their future health, let them roll
the dice. I believe that they were considered adults, at least in age at
the time.
"Bud Lite" wanted butts in the seats, and ...well you
know the rest. While Selig has done some good things for the game, this
era is on him as well. I wonder if the writers will keep him out for
his part, when his name comes up?
Biggio's omission is a joke.
Class guy, great player to only get 68% is a travesty. Piazza should be
in there as well. He did not get a ringing endorsement from his mentor,
Tommy LaSorda. Interesting that TL said that he hoped he never took
steroids. Not a definitive no way, no doubt about it comment that he was
noted for. Still his play on the field was exceptional, just like
Roger, Sammy, Barry, Mark, and the list goes on and on.
These two
will probably not get in next year as well. With the Big 3 eligible
among other quality first timers, hard to see 5 or 6 on the stage at
once. Biggio will get in at some point. It would have been a perfect
time to give him his day in the spotlight this year. Instead we are
preparing for the Ford Frick award winner induction. I bet that the town
of Cooperstown will be adding extra security and traffic personnel for
that induction. Count me in as one of 73 people who will be watching
that ceremony on the MLB Network. NOT.
Phil Rizzuto is a HOF Shortstop but Alan Trammel isn't???
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