Cards offense stinks. Either AL side will be praying they win the NLCS, make for another easy AL WS win over them for the 2nd year in a row (Red Sox would've swept them last year but for 2 inexcusable & errant throws to 3rd base. As it was their win was comfortable enough even with those errors). Neither AL side wishes SF to make the WS: they have a habit of winning it in recent even numbered years.
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Cards offense stinks. Either AL side will be praying they win the NLCS, make for another easy AL WS win over them for the 2nd year in a row (Red Sox would've swept them last year but for 2 inexcusable & errant throws to 3rd base. As it was their win was comfortable enough even with those errors). Neither AL side wishes SF to make the WS: they have a habit of winning it in recent even numbered years.
Geez, what a narrow minded outlook. If the Cards offense is thrash, the Giants offense isn't much better. Cards has scored 15 runs in the playoffs and SF has scored 9. During the regular season they were #6 and #4 for runs scored respectively.
Bryce Harper would disagree with your statement about the Giants pen. Also, how has the Giants pen been any better than the Cards?
Finally, Matheny has taken this team to 3 straight NLCS and one WS already. Bochy is awesome as well. Don't see a huge dropoff here.
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Geez, what a narrow minded outlook. If the Cards offense is thrash, the Giants offense isn't much better. Cards has scored 15 runs in the playoffs and SF has scored 9. During the regular season they were #6 and #4 for runs scored respectively.
Bryce Harper would disagree with your statement about the Giants pen. Also, how has the Giants pen been any better than the Cards?
Finally, Matheny has taken this team to 3 straight NLCS and one WS already. Bochy is awesome as well. Don't see a huge dropoff here.
I am a fan (clearly), but most of what you said is a bit extreme. Some of my thoughts for other posters. Comments in blue.
1. Giants much better against righties, Cards not a single lefty. Disagree. Giants are actually marginally better vs. lefties.
vs. lefties: .258 BA / .708 OPS (better than NL average) vs. righties: .253 BA / .695 OPS (~ NL average)
2. Cards offense is trash. Have we been watching the same games? Cardinals' offense has undergone some changes over the year (e.g., no Craig now, Wong improved, Holliday rebounded).
Post-All Star Break. Cardinals: 321 Runs Giants: 251 Runs
3. Wainwright regressing in postseason, wins one game if lucky. Waino has a bad start in LA and now he is regressing in the postseason. Interesting. Regardless, sounds like he has some health concerns (elbow) and that is certainly something to be mindful of.
Speaking of regressing... take a gander at how well Hudson and Vogelsong were pitching at the end of the season. They were both awful. One good start in October doesn't change that.
4. Lackey better postseason pitcher, wins one game at best. The win probability will depend on the pitching match-up. Determining how many games he will win without knowing who he is going up against isn't constructive.
5. Lynn and Miller can't be trusted, both prone to melt down. With you on Miller, but he's the 4th starters. Lynn... Show me how many games he melted down in this season. He gave up more than 4+ runs in only 4 of his 32 starts (13% of the time). Bumgarner gave up 4+ runs in 11 of his starts (Vogelsong 13 times; Hudson 7 times). Who is prone to meltdowns again?
6. Giants pen is lights out, Cards below average at best. I think they are about par for the course on this one. Although, Giants' bullpen sure regressed a bit post-all star break.
7. Bochy manages circles around Matheny. Not a big fan of Matheny's in game decisions. He makes quite a few mistakes.
8. Giants own Cardinals in postseason. Teams change every year. I don't recall the last time the Giants owned the Cardinals in the postseason though. 2002 maybe? Nobody on either team is the same.
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I am a fan (clearly), but most of what you said is a bit extreme. Some of my thoughts for other posters. Comments in blue.
1. Giants much better against righties, Cards not a single lefty. Disagree. Giants are actually marginally better vs. lefties.
vs. lefties: .258 BA / .708 OPS (better than NL average) vs. righties: .253 BA / .695 OPS (~ NL average)
2. Cards offense is trash. Have we been watching the same games? Cardinals' offense has undergone some changes over the year (e.g., no Craig now, Wong improved, Holliday rebounded).
Post-All Star Break. Cardinals: 321 Runs Giants: 251 Runs
3. Wainwright regressing in postseason, wins one game if lucky. Waino has a bad start in LA and now he is regressing in the postseason. Interesting. Regardless, sounds like he has some health concerns (elbow) and that is certainly something to be mindful of.
Speaking of regressing... take a gander at how well Hudson and Vogelsong were pitching at the end of the season. They were both awful. One good start in October doesn't change that.
4. Lackey better postseason pitcher, wins one game at best. The win probability will depend on the pitching match-up. Determining how many games he will win without knowing who he is going up against isn't constructive.
5. Lynn and Miller can't be trusted, both prone to melt down. With you on Miller, but he's the 4th starters. Lynn... Show me how many games he melted down in this season. He gave up more than 4+ runs in only 4 of his 32 starts (13% of the time). Bumgarner gave up 4+ runs in 11 of his starts (Vogelsong 13 times; Hudson 7 times). Who is prone to meltdowns again?
6. Giants pen is lights out, Cards below average at best. I think they are about par for the course on this one. Although, Giants' bullpen sure regressed a bit post-all star break.
7. Bochy manages circles around Matheny. Not a big fan of Matheny's in game decisions. He makes quite a few mistakes.
8. Giants own Cardinals in postseason. Teams change every year. I don't recall the last time the Giants owned the Cardinals in the postseason though. 2002 maybe? Nobody on either team is the same.
I am a fan (clearly), but most of what you said is a bit extreme. Some of my thoughts for other posters. Comments in blue.
1. Giants much better against righties, Cards not a single lefty. Disagree. Giants are actually marginally better vs. lefties.
vs. lefties: .258 BA / .708 OPS (better than NL average) vs. righties: .253 BA / .695 OPS (~ NL average)
2. Cards offense is trash. Have we been watching the same games? Cardinals' offense has undergone some changes over the year (e.g., no Craig now, Wong improved, Holliday rebounded).
Post-All Star Break. Cardinals: 321 Runs Giants: 251 Runs
3. Wainwright regressing in postseason, wins one game if lucky. Waino has a bad start in LA and now he is regressing in the postseason. Interesting. Regardless, sounds like he has some health concerns (elbow) and that is certainly something to be mindful of.
Speaking of regressing... take a gander at how well Hudson and Vogelsong were pitching at the end of the season. They were both awful. One good start in October doesn't change that.
4. Lackey better postseason pitcher, wins one game at best. The win probability will depend on the pitching match-up. Determining how many games he will win without knowing who he is going up against isn't constructive.
5. Lynn and Miller can't be trusted, both prone to melt down. With you on Miller, but he's the 4th starters. Lynn... Show me how many games he melted down in this season. He gave up more than 4+ runs in only 4 of his 32 starts (13% of the time). Bumgarner gave up 4+ runs in 11 of his starts (Vogelsong 13 times; Hudson 7 times). Who is prone to meltdowns again?
6. Giants pen is lights out, Cards below average at best. I think they are about par for the course on this one. Although, Giants' bullpen sure regressed a bit post-all star break.
7. Bochy manages circles around Matheny. Not a big fan of Matheny's in game decisions. He makes quite a few mistakes.
8. Giants own Cardinals in postseason. Teams change every year. I don't recall the last time the Giants owned the Cardinals in the postseason though. 2002 maybe? Nobody on either team is the same.
Let me take you all the way back to 2012. I'm praying for you Cardinals but they have little chance against these Giants.
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Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOnBat:
I am a fan (clearly), but most of what you said is a bit extreme. Some of my thoughts for other posters. Comments in blue.
1. Giants much better against righties, Cards not a single lefty. Disagree. Giants are actually marginally better vs. lefties.
vs. lefties: .258 BA / .708 OPS (better than NL average) vs. righties: .253 BA / .695 OPS (~ NL average)
2. Cards offense is trash. Have we been watching the same games? Cardinals' offense has undergone some changes over the year (e.g., no Craig now, Wong improved, Holliday rebounded).
Post-All Star Break. Cardinals: 321 Runs Giants: 251 Runs
3. Wainwright regressing in postseason, wins one game if lucky. Waino has a bad start in LA and now he is regressing in the postseason. Interesting. Regardless, sounds like he has some health concerns (elbow) and that is certainly something to be mindful of.
Speaking of regressing... take a gander at how well Hudson and Vogelsong were pitching at the end of the season. They were both awful. One good start in October doesn't change that.
4. Lackey better postseason pitcher, wins one game at best. The win probability will depend on the pitching match-up. Determining how many games he will win without knowing who he is going up against isn't constructive.
5. Lynn and Miller can't be trusted, both prone to melt down. With you on Miller, but he's the 4th starters. Lynn... Show me how many games he melted down in this season. He gave up more than 4+ runs in only 4 of his 32 starts (13% of the time). Bumgarner gave up 4+ runs in 11 of his starts (Vogelsong 13 times; Hudson 7 times). Who is prone to meltdowns again?
6. Giants pen is lights out, Cards below average at best. I think they are about par for the course on this one. Although, Giants' bullpen sure regressed a bit post-all star break.
7. Bochy manages circles around Matheny. Not a big fan of Matheny's in game decisions. He makes quite a few mistakes.
8. Giants own Cardinals in postseason. Teams change every year. I don't recall the last time the Giants owned the Cardinals in the postseason though. 2002 maybe? Nobody on either team is the same.
Let me take you all the way back to 2012. I'm praying for you Cardinals but they have little chance against these Giants.
That series went 7 games. That doesn't classify as "owning".
If that is owning a team in the postseason, how would you characterize beating a team (in a 7 game series) in 5 or fewer games?
According to most bettors (and experts), the Cardinals didn't have a chance vs. the Dodgers either.
Ok so the Giants didn't "own" the Cardinals in the 2012 NLCS and we should give credit where credit is due. They fought the good fight. Needless to say that didn't bring a trophy to St Louis. Now they get a shot at redemption. I suppose you'll be wagering 1% of your bankroll on your Cards just for sh!ts and giggles. I don't find any value at all in the Cards...........NONE! The Giants have always relished being the underdog as once again I see they are in this series to the mighty St Louis Cardinals. BOL
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Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOnBat:
"Giants own Cardinals in postseason."
That series went 7 games. That doesn't classify as "owning".
If that is owning a team in the postseason, how would you characterize beating a team (in a 7 game series) in 5 or fewer games?
According to most bettors (and experts), the Cardinals didn't have a chance vs. the Dodgers either.
Ok so the Giants didn't "own" the Cardinals in the 2012 NLCS and we should give credit where credit is due. They fought the good fight. Needless to say that didn't bring a trophy to St Louis. Now they get a shot at redemption. I suppose you'll be wagering 1% of your bankroll on your Cards just for sh!ts and giggles. I don't find any value at all in the Cards...........NONE! The Giants have always relished being the underdog as once again I see they are in this series to the mighty St Louis Cardinals. BOL
The Giants were down 3-1 and made an amazing comeback. They deserved it and played better baseball those last 3 games. Scutaro was their worst nightmare. I feel like he was beating them up on both sides (bat and glove) after Holliday took him out w. the hard slide. It was crazy to watch everything unfold.
Besides, as a fan it isn't exciting to win it all every year. You have to experience the lows to enjoy the highs, even if that means watching them squander comfortable leads.
My favorite part of the 2012 playoffs (for the Cards) was their game 5 comeback against the Nationals. They won it all in 2011, so watching them lose to the Giants was perfectly fine by me.
I would be very surprised to see this series go fewer than 6 games. I give the Cardinals a slight edge, but anything can happen… especially if Waino isn't 100% and Peavy keeps pitching the way he is.
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The Giants were down 3-1 and made an amazing comeback. They deserved it and played better baseball those last 3 games. Scutaro was their worst nightmare. I feel like he was beating them up on both sides (bat and glove) after Holliday took him out w. the hard slide. It was crazy to watch everything unfold.
Besides, as a fan it isn't exciting to win it all every year. You have to experience the lows to enjoy the highs, even if that means watching them squander comfortable leads.
My favorite part of the 2012 playoffs (for the Cards) was their game 5 comeback against the Nationals. They won it all in 2011, so watching them lose to the Giants was perfectly fine by me.
I would be very surprised to see this series go fewer than 6 games. I give the Cardinals a slight edge, but anything can happen… especially if Waino isn't 100% and Peavy keeps pitching the way he is.
I suppose you'll be wagering 1% of your bankroll on your Cards just for sh!ts and giggles.
I might wager the Cardinals when the face Vogelsong and possibly one of the home games, depending on the pitching match-ups and the lines. It is likely you see me wager on the Giants as well. I don't let money and fandom intersect one another.
All I want is a competitive series.
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Quote Originally Posted by best_bets:
I suppose you'll be wagering 1% of your bankroll on your Cards just for sh!ts and giggles.
I might wager the Cardinals when the face Vogelsong and possibly one of the home games, depending on the pitching match-ups and the lines. It is likely you see me wager on the Giants as well. I don't let money and fandom intersect one another.
I must say I am a Giants fan but watching them lose has never been "perfectly fine by me" I had to endure the months of June and July this year. You remember that losing stretch for the Giants.....it was horrendous. If a team can collect themselves form something that catastrophic and be winning in the playoffs....isn't that telling you something against all odds?
Good luck BirdsOnBat and may the best team win!
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I must say I am a Giants fan but watching them lose has never been "perfectly fine by me" I had to endure the months of June and July this year. You remember that losing stretch for the Giants.....it was horrendous. If a team can collect themselves form something that catastrophic and be winning in the playoffs....isn't that telling you something against all odds?
I must say I am a Giants fan but watching them lose has never been "perfectly fine by me" I had to endure the months of June and July this year. You remember that losing stretch for the Giants.....it was horrendous. If a team can collect themselves form something that catastrophic and be winning in the playoffs....isn't that telling you something against all odds?
Good luck BirdsOnBat and may the best team win!
good teams can surprise you (for the good or bad). I remember the Cardinals losing 8 in a row and barely limping into the playoffs in 2006 (I believe they only won 82 games that year… ouch)… but they won 11 games in October somehow, by beating the Padres and the heavily favored Mets… then they killed the Tigers, who were supposed to "sweep in 3".
I give the Giants a good shot to win the series. They are a very good club.
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Quote Originally Posted by best_bets:
I must say I am a Giants fan but watching them lose has never been "perfectly fine by me" I had to endure the months of June and July this year. You remember that losing stretch for the Giants.....it was horrendous. If a team can collect themselves form something that catastrophic and be winning in the playoffs....isn't that telling you something against all odds?
Good luck BirdsOnBat and may the best team win!
good teams can surprise you (for the good or bad). I remember the Cardinals losing 8 in a row and barely limping into the playoffs in 2006 (I believe they only won 82 games that year… ouch)… but they won 11 games in October somehow, by beating the Padres and the heavily favored Mets… then they killed the Tigers, who were supposed to "sweep in 3".
I give the Giants a good shot to win the series. They are a very good club.
motowner - nothing on my retort? Interestingly enough, several of your assertions didn't hold water when you actually evaluate the data.
I place a lot of value on objectivity. It always good to see peoples' perspective on games. That said, I think you should re-evaluate some of your assumptions for this series.
Either way, I find it highly unlikely that this series is decided before they go back to Busch for games 6 and 7.
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motowner - nothing on my retort? Interestingly enough, several of your assertions didn't hold water when you actually evaluate the data.
I place a lot of value on objectivity. It always good to see peoples' perspective on games. That said, I think you should re-evaluate some of your assumptions for this series.
Either way, I find it highly unlikely that this series is decided before they go back to Busch for games 6 and 7.
I'd quite literally be shocked if this series lasts more than 5 games and the -135 series price on STL is probably 35c too low. I'm going with Cards series and Cards in 5 games at +500.
Conventional wisdom is that the Cards don't hit lefties as well but the stats and the eye test beg to differ. Carpenter, Adams and Wong can all hit lefties, that means the usual advantage the Giants have at home and in game 1 is neutralized.
The reason I like the Cards is because Adams and Molina missed a lot of games and they still finished with a better record than the Giants. Now the Giants don't have Pagan. Without Pagan they used 5 different players at lead off and didn't win until they finally put Pence at the top of the order. That was against the Cubs tho and it won't work vs the Cards.
EZ winner STL. Not going to be close.
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I'd quite literally be shocked if this series lasts more than 5 games and the -135 series price on STL is probably 35c too low. I'm going with Cards series and Cards in 5 games at +500.
Conventional wisdom is that the Cards don't hit lefties as well but the stats and the eye test beg to differ. Carpenter, Adams and Wong can all hit lefties, that means the usual advantage the Giants have at home and in game 1 is neutralized.
The reason I like the Cards is because Adams and Molina missed a lot of games and they still finished with a better record than the Giants. Now the Giants don't have Pagan. Without Pagan they used 5 different players at lead off and didn't win until they finally put Pence at the top of the order. That was against the Cubs tho and it won't work vs the Cards.
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