anyone else think this AFI "heros & villians" list is garbage?

list as of 2003 >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI's_100_Years...100_Heroes_and_Villains

my argument is mostly on the "villians" side. I don't see #30 Robert DeNero as Travis Bickle in "Taxi Driver" as a "villian". same with #32 Bonnie & Clyde. #20 "Man" in Bambi? give me a break. also question #18 "The Shark" in "Jaws". it's a predator fish for Christ sake. eating things is what it DOES. same with #13 the HAL9000 in "2001". it's freeking MACHINE.

the charactures that SHOULD be on the "top 50 villians" list as far as I'm concerrned are (in no particular order)...

Ernest Borgnine as "Shack" the murderous train conductor in "Emperor of the North Pole" (1973). he's a sadistic asshole that kills hobos just for riding his train. >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_the_North_Pole. IF NOT for "Shack", Borgnine could also be on the list for stockade  sergeant "Fatso" Judson in "From Here to Eternity" (1953) OR Coley Trimble in "Bad Day at Black Rock" (1955)

Gary Oldman as "Stansfield" the psychotic, drug-addicted, corrupt DEA agent that murders "Mathilda's" family in "The Professional" (aka "Leon") (1994). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9on_(film). he's at LEAST as great a muderous psyco villian as #26 James Cagney as Cody Jarrett in "White Heat" (1949) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Heat

Bruce Dern played many villians in his early film career but non more evil than Asa "Long Hair" Watts the cowardly bully leader of the rustlers that shoots John Wayne, as Wil Anderson, in the back in "The Cowboys" (1972) (my personal fav John Wayne western). you just want to see this bastard DIE in the worst way possable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cowboys

Doug Hutchison as the weaselly punkass guard "Percy Wetmore" in "The Green Mile". we have all probably worked, at one time or another, with some cowardly bully like this that uses their position to make peoples life miserable just to feed their own ego. you want to see HIS ass strapped into the electric chair. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Mile_(film)

Tom Berenger as "Sergeant Barnes" in "Platoon" (1986). he commits murder in the Vietnamese village and allows his troops to commit other atrocities. then he murders Elias (Willem Dafoe) to try and cover up his crimes. he's going to murder Taylor (Charlie Sheen) with an entrenching shovel at the end of the movie but an airstrike saves Taylor by knocking Barnes cold. I'm pretty sure that in real life Vietnam this asshole would have been fragged while taking a shit. when I saw this in a theater, most everyone cheered when Taylor blows Barnes away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platoon_(film)

as for "heros", IF Gene Hackman as Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle is a "hero" in "The French Connection", then so is Robert DeNiro as Travis Bickle in "Taxi Driver". I think that Jean Reno as Léon in "The Professional" should be on the heros list. yes he's a mob hitman BUT he risks his life to save Mathilda and becomes her surrogate father eventually giving his life to finally save her from Stansfield.

any other heros or villians that either DON'T belong on the lists OR should be on them?

 

 

 

 

Villian

Javier Bardem as "Anton Chigurh"- No Country For Old Men

Hero

Billy Bob Thornton as "Karl Childers"- Sling Blade

Javier Bardem as "Anton Chigurh"- No Country For Old Men

excellent selection

(keep them coming, folks)

for villains I would have included the warden from shawshank, tony montana, khan from star trek 2, the butcher from gangs of new york.

for heros, how can you not have luke fucking skywalker?  tom hanks in saving private ryan.

I agree with the op that some of these selections are just downright weird- can robots really be villainous?  A fucking shark just doin what a shark does- they even say it in the movie- all they do is eat and swim and make baby sharks!  Bickle is baffling as well- way more of a tragic character than a villain IMO.

I'm also not a fan of so many real life characters being on the heros list- seems like a bit of a cheat.  Also, whats the deal with one group of outlaws (butch and sundance) being heros, while another (bonnie and clyde) are villains?  "Man" from bambi is just fucking lame- are they saying that all hunters are villains?

for villains I would have included the warden from shawshank, tony montana, khan from star trek 2, the butcher from gangs of new york.

I would definately include Bob Gunton as Warden Samuel Norton from "Shawshank" and Daniel Day-Lewis as Bill "The Butcher" Cutting from "Gangs of New York" AND you could probably also ad Lewis to the "villians" list as Daniel Plainview in "Their Will Be Blood". to me, Ricardo Montalbán portrays Khan Noonien Singh as more of a cartoon villian and I rank Al Pacino as Tony Montana more somewhere between hero and villian.

for heros, how can you not have luke fucking skywalker? 

probably because they had Alec Guinness as Obi-Wan Kenobi listed as #37 hero and didn't want multipul selections from the same movie. should have had Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker listed instead because he's THE hero in the first three movies (listed as "episodes" 4 thru 6) whereas Obi-Wan gets killed off half way thru the first move ("episode" 4)

"Man" from bambi is just fucking lame- are they saying that all hunters are villains?

agree 100%. THE most LAME "villian" listed. I will wager that next time AFI updates the list, THAT will be GONE.

ernest borgnine was ultra-nasty in "Emperor"...which is also one of my top fav 25 movies..maybe higher...

Prof. Moriarty is a nasty brute as well...was HE on the list? not onl is he psychopath he is a megalomaniac, the worst kind of killer.

Prof. Moriarty is a nasty brute as well...was HE on the list?

SO many actors that have played Professor Moriarty. Lionel Atwill and Henry Daniell in the Basil Rathbone-Nigel Bruce Sherlock Holmes series in the 1940's. one of the most interesting was Daniel Davis as Moriaty to Brent Spiner as Data playing Sherlock Holmes with LeRar Burton as Geordi LaForge playing Doctor Watson in the Star Trek: Next Generation episodes "Elementary, My Dear Data" and "Ship In A Bottle"

EXCELLENT selection for the reasons mentioned