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Thoughts From a Talking Head, David Byrne on PAYOLA

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Posted: #1
 Read what David Byrne had to say about payola and how it affected him on a personal note. I think payola affected all of us, be you young or older than 40. Everybody over the age of 40 has been force-fed much of the music they believe to be the greatest music of all time. Duped I say, duped! 

 
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Posted: #2
 I could see where those who have no music background could be  "convinced" that what they are hearing is good/great music, or a good/great song. I never fell for it. I remember when "The Cars" 1st appeared. Many people thought they were great but I saw their music as "simple"..........like a lot of stuff that comes out these days. Not bad mind you, but not real complicated. I guess that works for those that don't enjoy critical listening, or even know what it is.
 
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Posted: #3
what I had believed were my subjective passions and discoveries were actually the result of a concerted program to pound certain tunes into my innocent brain. I had been totally manipulated! What I thought were decisions and loves that were mine and mine alone had been planted in my head by sleazy characters I could barely imagine. Free will? Hah! My entire past was called into question. Who am I? Am I not partly what I like? And if those things I like were not completely of my own choosing, then what am I?

A man after my own heart
 
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Posted: #4
This won't go over well, but I actually with exception to Joe Walsh on guitar previous to him just shy of Ozzy Osbourning his brain completely

....I have never thought any of the Eagles had much musical talent. A couple decent voices,

My .02

But like Sugar said and I agree with his observation about radio stations paid to play dogshit over and over again (paraphrasing w'an example), and little dumbass julie from rural Indiana thinks she's supposed to like it because everyone else must since it's played so much....That evolves into a disgusting conglomerate of hairless chimps in middle america running around saying how great dog shit that is out especially the past decade in front of a mike and speakers is quality. Biggest lie since we heard them daily from William Jefferson Clinton from Arkansas in daily press shit.

I always thought the public was force fed the Eagles and told that the populus was supposed to think they were good regardless........What are they on now....? Their 4th or 5th "Farewell Tour"...Makes me ill.


Mugg, Yes is coming to Seattle minus Jon Anderson, with Benoit David (?) doing vocals....I guess that means it's going to be a set of the lamest top 40 lyrics that he can handle, since I doubt anyone could take on the lyrics of Yes'es great art rock stuff. I don't think anyone could get most of that down in half a decade.

Clapton and Daltrey are playing in Tampa tomorrow. Bored and looked up ticket prices for decent seats a month ago. $200 each. Absolutely absurd.....

Sugar, I was loading and updating the Pods and listened on purpose to that Bobby Goldsborough song, 2nd on the music autobio list. Dude, that really is a pretty decent song. Represented the era, but I liked the late 60s and 70s.quite a bit....

Just some penny's worth of rants and thoughts.

Later music crew
 
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Posted: #5

Quote Originally Posted by THEMUGG:

 I could see where those who have no music background could be  "convinced" that what they are hearing is good/great music, or a good/great song. I never fell for it. I remember when "The Cars" 1st appeared. Many people thought they were great but I saw their music as "simple"..........like a lot of stuff that comes out these days. Not bad mind you, but not real complicated. I guess that works for those that don't enjoy critical listening, or even know what it is.

A song does not need to be complicated to be good. Here are a couple that come to mind:

Pigs On the Wing

Mother

Wish You were Here

These are not complicated songs, but I think you would agree they are great songs.

 
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Posted: #6
Agreed Gut......

I think the Cars suck also, but there are a couple that entertain me when I hear them.

Moving In Stereo and Bye, Bye Love.

But holy crap that band hand some dogshit to the human ear.
 
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Posted: #7
I was never a fan of the Cars and a lot of other bands during that time. The Cars seemed as if they were put together, like the boy bands of the 90's.
 
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Posted: #8
Quote Originally Posted by gutcheck:

A song does not need to be complicated to be good. Here are a couple that come to mind:

Pigs On the Wing

Mother

Wish You were Here

These are not complicated songs, but I think you would agree they are great songs.

 I would agree with you that a song doesn't NEED to be complicated to be great, but not the ones you chose. POTW is basically a lead in/lead out, & WYWH & Mother, while somehwat simple in content, are brilliantly produced. There is substance in the words & rhythm, & I love the changes in Mother, especially with the solo Gilmour does which accentuates the feeling of the song. Can't compare that to a song like "don't you stop" by the Cars. But I am biased to PF so.........

 For the record, I do think "Since your gone" & "Drive" are very nice pieces of work by the Cars. I don't look for reasons to dislike a band/group...........I just know what I like, & I can usuually find something by most anyone that I like, even if I don't particularly care for the bulk of their stuff.

 I agree with the point of the article.........& I know people who fit the description.

 
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Posted: #9

DHop..........don't know if I will go to see YES..........but I just bought tix (only $30) to Blue Oyster Cult at the Skagit Casino. Great little venue to see these guys..........even though I saw them 3 times in the 70's/80's.

 
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Posted: #10
Quote Originally Posted by platypus:

what I had believed were my subjective passions and discoveries were actually the result of a concerted program to pound certain tunes into my innocent brain. I had been totally manipulated! What I thought were decisions and loves that were mine and mine alone had been planted in my head by sleazy characters I could barely imagine. Free will? Hah! My entire past was called into question. Who am I? Am I not partly what I like? And if those things I like were not completely of my own choosing, then what am I?

A man after my own heart
Exactly why  I posted this.
 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by dennishopson:

This won't go over well, but I actually with exception to Joe Walsh on guitar previous to him just shy of Ozzy Osbourning his brain completely

....I have never thought any of the Eagles had much musical talent. A couple decent voices,

My .02

But like Sugar said and I agree with his observation about radio stations paid to play dogshit over and over again (paraphrasing w'an example), and little dumbass julie from rural Indiana thinks she's supposed to like it because everyone else must since it's played so much....That evolves into a disgusting conglomerate of hairless chimps in middle america running around saying how great dog shit that is out especially the past decade in front of a mike and speakers is quality. Biggest lie since we heard them daily from William Jefferson Clinton from Arkansas in daily press shit.

I always thought the public was force fed the Eagles and told that the populus was supposed to think they were good regardless........What are they on now....? Their 4th or 5th "Farewell Tour"...Makes me ill.


Mugg, Yes is coming to Seattle minus Jon Anderson, with Benoit David (?) doing vocals....I guess that means it's going to be a set of the lamest top 40 lyrics that he can handle, since I doubt anyone could take on the lyrics of Yes'es great art rock stuff. I don't think anyone could get most of that down in half a decade.

Clapton and Daltrey are playing in Tampa tomorrow. Bored and looked up ticket prices for decent seats a month ago. $200 each. Absolutely absurd.....

Sugar, I was loading and updating the Pods and listened on purpose to that Bobby Goldsborough song, 2nd on the music autobio list. Dude, that really is a pretty decent song. Represented the era, but I liked the late 60s and 70s.quite a bit....

Just some penny's worth of rants and thoughts.

Later music crew
You sir, are all over the map. If you could kindly stick to one subject at a time, it would be most appreciated.
 
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Posted: #12
Quote Originally Posted by gutcheck:

A song does not need to be complicated to be good. Here are a couple that come to mind:

Pigs On the Wing

Mother

Wish You were Here


These are not complicated songs, but I think you would agree they are great songs.

I'm not expecting anyone here to believe me on this, but with first hand information from those incredibly close to the Floyd, I know Payola was very integral in getting them to be heard on the radio in the seventies. Whether the music was great or not, Payola was a key ingredient in many of the popular bands' success. It wasn't until I was older and wiser to be able to see this and could finally discover what my real musical palette consisted of. With all due respect to all of us here, I don't care how independently-minded any of us were when we were younger, it was almost impossible to not be affected by the record label's manipulation machine. It continues to this day and probably will for our lifetime, albeit in different forms.
 
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Posted: #13
Quote Originally Posted by THEMUGG:

 I could see where those who have no music background could be  "convinced" that what they are hearing is good/great music, or a good/great song. I never fell for it. I remember when "The Cars" 1st appeared. Many people thought they were great but I saw their music as "simple"..........like a lot of stuff that comes out these days. Not bad mind you, but not real complicated. I guess that works for those that don't enjoy critical listening, or even know what it is.
I hear what you're saying but, I don't believe a musical background or critical listening skills are needed to be able to differentiate the good from bad that's been "force-fed" to the masses. I respect many of my peers' opinions who don't play or can't even tell a banjo from a ukulele much more so than some of the self-proclaimed musical officionados. 
 
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Posted: #14
i get all my music from friends or randomly generated new music blogs

nothing influences my tastes

its all random


 
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Posted: #15
Quote Originally Posted by Sugarhouse:

I don't care how independently-minded any of us were when we were younger, it was almost impossible to not be affected by the record label's manipulation machine. It continues to this day and probably will for our lifetime, albeit in different forms.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you should keep this in mind: if it's not any good to begin with, it's not going to make an ounce of difference how much it gets played. From a subjective point of view, there are always going to be trends you question in terms of quality, but it's obviously striking a chord with someone out there.

Which is not to say record labels and radio stations aren't able to manipulate trends (when Nirvana broke, all you heard were alt-rock bands; when Britney Spears and *NSYNC broke in the late 90's, all you heard was bubblegum pop), of course they are. But to suggest that the masses are being manipulated into liking certain types of music at certain times is just naive (it may be all they readily have access to, but that doesn't necessarily mean they like it).

Music I discovered when I was younger (R.E.M., The Smiths, Pixies, and to a lesser extent U2) almost never got played on the radio - that didn't stop me from becoming a fan. Music I like now (Tool, Radiohead, Rise Against) doesn't get played until after "drive time" - that hasn't stopped me from being a fan.

Bottom line: if the music has limited mass appeal, no amount of airplay is going to change that; conversely, if the music has merit to it, radio can protest all they want, but they're not going to be able to stand in its way (see Nirvana for further explanation).
 
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Posted: #16
Quote Originally Posted by hugh613:

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you should keep this in mind: if it's not any good to begin with, it's not going to make an ounce of difference how much it gets played. From a subjective point of view, there are always going to be trends you question in terms of quality, but it's obviously striking a chord with someone out there.

Which is not to say record labels and radio stations aren't able to manipulate trends (when Nirvana broke, all you heard were alt-rock bands; when Britney Spears and *NSYNC broke in the late 90's, all you heard was bubblegum pop), of course they are. But to suggest that the masses are being manipulated into liking certain types of music at certain times is just naive (it may be all they readily have access to, but that doesn't necessarily mean they like it).

Music I discovered when I was younger (R.E.M., The Smiths, Pixies, and to a lesser extent U2) almost never got played on the radio - that didn't stop me from becoming a fan. Music I like now (Tool, Radiohead, Rise Against) doesn't get played until after "drive time" - that hasn't stopped me from being a fan.

Bottom line: if the music has limited mass appeal, no amount of airplay is going to change that; conversely, if the music has merit to it, radio can protest all they want, but they're not going to be able to stand in its way (see Nirvana for further explanation).

Thanks, Hugh.  You beat me to it.  Well said, Bro  
 
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Posted: #17
Figured I'd save you some typing Henry...




 
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Posted: #18
Quote Originally Posted by Sugarhouse:

I'm not expecting anyone here to believe me on this, but with first hand information from those incredibly close to the Floyd, I know Payola was very integral in getting them to be heard on the radio in the seventies. Whether the music was great or not, Payola was a key ingredient in many of the popular bands' success. It wasn't until I was older and wiser to be able to see this and could finally discover what my real musical palette consisted of. With all due respect to all of us here, I don't care how independently-minded any of us were when we were younger, it was almost impossible to not be affected by the record label's manipulation machine. It continues to this day and probably will for our lifetime, albeit in different forms.

 That's interesting because growing up in the 70's (HS in late 70's) PF was one of the least played bands on the radio that I can remember. I had a buddy that was quite a guitarist & he turned me on to stuff like Trower, Yes, ELP, PF,etc. It got to the point where we didn't listen much to radio. If you feel you were brainwashed then I can see why you would be interested in the article you posted. I'm not trying to imply that I'm better or more musically savvy than anyone else......I just learned at an early age that my taste in music was different from most others.

 Whose opinions you respect is your biz..........I've my experiences to draw from...you have yours.
 
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Posted: #19
This is NOT with whom I am close to regarding Pink Floyd, but it's an excerpt from an article from this website
Frederic Dannen wrote a book-length exploration of payola, Hit Men: Power Brokers and Fast Money Inside the Music Business, which illustrated that payola—like rock'n'roll—never died. In 1980, Dannen reported, Pink Floyd was popular enough to sell out entire concert tours in a matter of hours, but still could not get airplay for its singles without resorting to "independent promoters," whose primary job was to provide the record labels with "plausible deniability" should their payments to radio station programmers ever be made public.


 
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Posted: #20
This is not to say Floyd wasn't good or anything like that. It just shows even Pink Floyd had some help when it came to radio airplay, which in essence is a tool for selling records. 
 
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Posted: #21

 So what exactly is your point? You started this thread with the premise that many people were "brainwashed" into thinking music played on the radio was good when it may not have been. Now you appear to be going in another direction, implying that bands had to bribe radio stations to get airtime, which is a slightly different issue.

 It's no secret that record labels paid to promote some of their signee's to try to get ROI. Back in those days, radio tunes were generally 3 mins long..............& stations didn't like to tie up 6-8 mins on any one tune. Thus was born the "radio cut" version of a song. Maybe you're too young to remember, but there wasn't any classic rock stations back when classic rock was born..........just pop or country stations (rock stations were just starting to appear in the mid-late 70's). Bands that had longer than normal tunes (like PF) had to agree to butcher their songs to get air time. Well, you can only cut a song so much before it loses all integrity. Cutting an 7-8 min song down to 3-4 mins is just not feasible, & radio stations back then were slow to realize that, thus they just refused to play a lot of stuff.

 That's one of the reasons I drifted away from radio.........I almost never got to hear some of the best rock being released because of the restrictions of the stations. All I anyone ever knew of "DSOTM" was "Money"..........nothing else off that album was ever played. That's just an example. The same could be said for a lot of other bands.

 
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Posted: #22
Does a thread always have to have a point?
 I'm saying payola or any other form of bribery had and has something to do with what all of us hear and have heard. 
You may think I'm getting personal but I'm not. Just some fodder for online jibberish when I'm in the mood to spew some drivel, that's all. 
If there is a point to this thread, it's trying to convey the fact all of us have been affected by the manipulations of record labels and advertising schemes. I'll start a different thread asking what music did you actually discover all by yourself; not by hearing it at a friend's house or having it recommended by someone, or on a commercial radio program. Totally by accident. I would think it might be difficult to think of such a band or musician. I know it is for me. 
As for being too young to remember classic rock in the 70's, there wasn't classic rock, yet. AM still ruled and FM radio wasn't even accepted as the best format for radio, was it? That is fucked up to me. Classic rock is just another label put on music from a certain time. Labels suck in my opinion and I try to leave them out of the conversation. I don't like using them even though I find myself doing it from time to time. 
Radio stations refusing to play songs over 5 minutes or so added to the problem for many bands to get airplay. This was another way that people were hearing bands that they may not have in the first place; by writing 3-4 minute songs, these bands had an upper hand in the ability to get airtime. Blahblahblah
 I'm not in the mood to keep going with this now.
 
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Posted: #23
Quote Originally Posted by Sugarhouse:

Does a thread always have to have a point?
 I'm saying payola or any other form of bribery had and has something to do with what all of us hear and have heard. 
You may think I'm getting personal but I'm not. Just some fodder for online jibberish when I'm in the mood to spew some drivel, that's all. 
If there is a point to this thread, it's trying to convey the fact all of us have been affected by the manipulations of record labels and advertising schemes. I'll start a different thread asking what music did you actually discover all by yourself; not by hearing it at a friend's house or having it recommended by someone, or on a commercial radio program. Totally by accident. I would think it might be difficult to think of such a band or musician. I know it is for me. 
As for being too young to remember classic rock in the 70's, there wasn't classic rock, yet. AM still ruled and FM radio wasn't even accepted as the best format for radio, was it? That is fucked up to me. Classic rock is just another label put on music from a certain time. Labels suck in my opinion and I try to leave them out of the conversation. I don't like using them even though I find myself doing it from time to time. 
Radio stations refusing to play songs over 5 minutes or so added to the problem for many bands to get airplay. This was another way that people were hearing bands that they may not have in the first place; by writing 3-4 minute songs, these bands had an upper hand in the ability to get airtime. Blahblahblah
 I'm not in the mood to keep going with this now.

Wow.  You tell D-hop he's all over the map in this thread and then you pull this shit.  Get off your high horse, bro.
 
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Posted: #24
What are you, a Covers watchdog? Come on Lilly, settle down now. I'm still somewhat on topic and speaking of things that someone else brought up in this thread. Perhaps I need to digress more often but who the fuck really cares? When I tell Hoppy to stay on topic I mean stay at least a little bit on what we're talking about. Everything you just quoted from my post was in reference to something someone else had posted, with the exception of "labels."  Hopson begins to talk about the topic and then goes on to something TOTALLY different. I commend you on your bravado. I like to see a little moxie in our readers. Keep it up and maybe someday you'll get to ride this high horse just like me. Oprama for President. 
 
 
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Posted: #25
Quote Originally Posted by Sugarhouse:

What are you, a Covers watchdog? Come on Lilly, settle down now. I'm still somewhat on topic and speaking of things that someone else brought up in this thread. Perhaps I need to digress more often but who the fuck really cares? When I tell Hoppy to stay on topic I mean stay at least a little bit on what we're talking about. Everything you just quoted from my post was in reference to something someone else had posted, with the exception of "labels."  Hopson begins to talk about the topic and then goes on to something TOTALLY different. I commend you on your bravado. I like to see a little moxie in our readers. Keep it up and maybe someday you'll get to ride this high horse just like me. Oprama for President. 

Smug, pompous and arrogant can only be outdone by hypocrisy.  Congratulations, you've outdone yourself in this thread.

Now let's get back to the fucking music....  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oAbyki0V8U&feature=related
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