Its actually well documented that Pippen left the bulls amidst MAJOR back issues. It was expected that he would have missed game 7 in the 98 finals if it went to game 7. There is a lot of documentation on it. My point was that there were a lot of things that went right for Jordan to emphasize his greatness and that his 6 for 6 is more of a team accomplishment instead of an MJ alone accomplishment which is what most MJ supporters make it out to be. It NEVER fails that you hear that, 6 for 6 statement in MJ's favor.
When he came to the rockets, my hometown team, they were all washed up Hakeem was on the backend of his career as well as drexler and barkley. Pippen was coming off of back surgery. Talent in names but not much else.
The 1 for 11 thing is something I came across reading an article about two clock violations that ended up helping the bulls in game 6 of that 98 finals which resulted in a (5 point swing in the bulls favor) therefore allowing Jordan to shove Russell to the baseline and hit that shot lol! Otherwise; game 7 maybe and maybe no pippen, maybe no 6 for 6....... how would his legacy look different? its cool to look at things like that and how the league works.
yep,well understood...you dont need to convince me that its a number of factors and circumstances that have to conspire for any player to win championships,that goes for ALL of them.lebron and anyone else also needs sum things to fall their way,like that ray allen shot for example....most of the dolts around here think that any star controls his own destiny entirely and thinks that they make a good case by simply spouting off number of rings won...anyone with a brain knows better than that.
now jordan was undoubtedly the absolute darling/golden boy of the league,moreso than any other player ever i wud imagine,and he got EVERY call possible on offense and defense and whilst i dont think his finals run was "easy" at all i admit he didnt face any historic dynasty type teams in their prime...cant argue against that.
but even still,in saying all of that,one absolutely HAS to concede that 6-0 is one heck of an accomplishment..no-one else has come even close to that in a really competitive era of basketball........of course jordan needed pippen but any sane person knows that jordan carried those teams (not on his own obviously but to a large degree)and it was undoubtedly pippen that needed him more.
i do remember pippen ailing in that series but didnt know his back was that chronic....hard to imagine that they wudnt have just shot him full of watever was necessary to get him out there for game 7 tho??
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Quote Originally Posted by TheluckyDC:
Its actually well documented that Pippen left the bulls amidst MAJOR back issues. It was expected that he would have missed game 7 in the 98 finals if it went to game 7. There is a lot of documentation on it. My point was that there were a lot of things that went right for Jordan to emphasize his greatness and that his 6 for 6 is more of a team accomplishment instead of an MJ alone accomplishment which is what most MJ supporters make it out to be. It NEVER fails that you hear that, 6 for 6 statement in MJ's favor.
When he came to the rockets, my hometown team, they were all washed up Hakeem was on the backend of his career as well as drexler and barkley. Pippen was coming off of back surgery. Talent in names but not much else.
The 1 for 11 thing is something I came across reading an article about two clock violations that ended up helping the bulls in game 6 of that 98 finals which resulted in a (5 point swing in the bulls favor) therefore allowing Jordan to shove Russell to the baseline and hit that shot lol! Otherwise; game 7 maybe and maybe no pippen, maybe no 6 for 6....... how would his legacy look different? its cool to look at things like that and how the league works.
yep,well understood...you dont need to convince me that its a number of factors and circumstances that have to conspire for any player to win championships,that goes for ALL of them.lebron and anyone else also needs sum things to fall their way,like that ray allen shot for example....most of the dolts around here think that any star controls his own destiny entirely and thinks that they make a good case by simply spouting off number of rings won...anyone with a brain knows better than that.
now jordan was undoubtedly the absolute darling/golden boy of the league,moreso than any other player ever i wud imagine,and he got EVERY call possible on offense and defense and whilst i dont think his finals run was "easy" at all i admit he didnt face any historic dynasty type teams in their prime...cant argue against that.
but even still,in saying all of that,one absolutely HAS to concede that 6-0 is one heck of an accomplishment..no-one else has come even close to that in a really competitive era of basketball........of course jordan needed pippen but any sane person knows that jordan carried those teams (not on his own obviously but to a large degree)and it was undoubtedly pippen that needed him more.
i do remember pippen ailing in that series but didnt know his back was that chronic....hard to imagine that they wudnt have just shot him full of watever was necessary to get him out there for game 7 tho??
2 of the biggest things i admire in lebron that arent always the 1st things mentioned is his durability,which is incredible..ya just cannot break the guy,all those minutes playing in a pretty physical,dynamic,full speed style and he has barely ever had one single serious ailment...or none that have kept him out anyway.
and also the way he dealt with and wildly exceeded expectations...remembering the hype around him as a 16,17 and 18 year old,being on national t.v in high school games and projected as the next biggest thing.....at the time you cud say he was almost doomed to fail with all that weight on his shoulders....this was in an era where the next high school phenom was touted almost yearly and most failed,many not even making the league......to shine the way he has is a triumph against big odds,despite his natural talent...theres a million guys with talent but theres so much more to make a total package.
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2 of the biggest things i admire in lebron that arent always the 1st things mentioned is his durability,which is incredible..ya just cannot break the guy,all those minutes playing in a pretty physical,dynamic,full speed style and he has barely ever had one single serious ailment...or none that have kept him out anyway.
and also the way he dealt with and wildly exceeded expectations...remembering the hype around him as a 16,17 and 18 year old,being on national t.v in high school games and projected as the next biggest thing.....at the time you cud say he was almost doomed to fail with all that weight on his shoulders....this was in an era where the next high school phenom was touted almost yearly and most failed,many not even making the league......to shine the way he has is a triumph against big odds,despite his natural talent...theres a million guys with talent but theres so much more to make a total package.
Last note on the great LeBron: LeBron was the only player in NBA history in any round of the playoffs to lead both teams in points rebounds assists Steals and blocks that has never been done. He's amazing!!! We are witnessing greatness just like we witness greatness when we had a chance to watch Jordan play.
Money Management and discipline is the key to success in sports investing
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Last note on the great LeBron: LeBron was the only player in NBA history in any round of the playoffs to lead both teams in points rebounds assists Steals and blocks that has never been done. He's amazing!!! We are witnessing greatness just like we witness greatness when we had a chance to watch Jordan play.
He just played against Golden State and lead everybody in every category...that's Great!!!
He's only 31 and he's real special... if you give him James worthy Kareem or Pippin Rodman kukoc...LeBron wins with them as well.
Only player to every do that... I've been critical of LeBron in the past.. but he is the best overall player in NBA history he will definitely cement that by the time his career is over with I want someone to name another player who's better in leadership points rebound assist Steals and blocks then LeBron and who can guard all 5 positions.
Money Management and discipline is the key to success in sports investing
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He just played against Golden State and lead everybody in every category...that's Great!!!
He's only 31 and he's real special... if you give him James worthy Kareem or Pippin Rodman kukoc...LeBron wins with them as well.
Only player to every do that... I've been critical of LeBron in the past.. but he is the best overall player in NBA history he will definitely cement that by the time his career is over with I want someone to name another player who's better in leadership points rebound assist Steals and blocks then LeBron and who can guard all 5 positions.
Here something to make you laugh when Jordan woke up in the morning he didn't have to worry about getting rebounds Rodman Horace grant bill Cartwright and Luke Longley took care of that... he didn't have to worry about the sidelines Phil Jackson took care of that...etc....
Money Management and discipline is the key to success in sports investing
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Here something to make you laugh when Jordan woke up in the morning he didn't have to worry about getting rebounds Rodman Horace grant bill Cartwright and Luke Longley took care of that... he didn't have to worry about the sidelines Phil Jackson took care of that...etc....
All those other great players had better coaching then LeBron and had better team mates then LeBron... you will never be able to tell me one player who can guard all 5 positions and who can do it all block steals rebounds points assist there hasn't been a player.... LeBron is inventing that player.....goodnight everybody!!!
Money Management and discipline is the key to success in sports investing
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All those other great players had better coaching then LeBron and had better team mates then LeBron... you will never be able to tell me one player who can guard all 5 positions and who can do it all block steals rebounds points assist there hasn't been a player.... LeBron is inventing that player.....goodnight everybody!!!
All those other great players had better coaching then LeBron and had better team mates then LeBron... you will never be able to tell me one player who can guard all 5 positions and who can do it all block steals rebounds points assist there hasn't been a player.... LeBron is inventing that player.....goodnight everybody!!!
Larry Bird
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Quote Originally Posted by jdukes0004:
All those other great players had better coaching then LeBron and had better team mates then LeBron... you will never be able to tell me one player who can guard all 5 positions and who can do it all block steals rebounds points assist there hasn't been a player.... LeBron is inventing that player.....goodnight everybody!!!
Kobe was better than lebron.. Also, as far as the best athlete to ever get on an nba court, Its Russel westbrrok and its not even close lbj himself would admit both these things.. I like lebron but I call it how i see it.
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Kobe was better than lebron.. Also, as far as the best athlete to ever get on an nba court, Its Russel westbrrok and its not even close lbj himself would admit both these things.. I like lebron but I call it how i see it.
Kobe was better than lebron.. Also, as far as the best athlete to ever get on an nba court, Its Russel westbrrok and its not even close lbj himself would admit both these things.. I like lebron but I call it how i see it.
i think ya mite need sum new glasses then.....horrible,horrible ill-informed calls....lebron has easily surpassed kobe.its hardly even debate-able....kobe looks like a one-trick pony next to lebron.
and westbrook is a crazy athlete but lebron,jordan and vince carter can all run with him and out-jump him and do shiit with their bodies that he cant....and all are at least a little bigger.
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Quote Originally Posted by bonilla420:
Kobe was better than lebron.. Also, as far as the best athlete to ever get on an nba court, Its Russel westbrrok and its not even close lbj himself would admit both these things.. I like lebron but I call it how i see it.
i think ya mite need sum new glasses then.....horrible,horrible ill-informed calls....lebron has easily surpassed kobe.its hardly even debate-able....kobe looks like a one-trick pony next to lebron.
and westbrook is a crazy athlete but lebron,jordan and vince carter can all run with him and out-jump him and do shiit with their bodies that he cant....and all are at least a little bigger.
Kobe was better than lebron.. Also, as far as the best athlete to ever get on an nba court, Its Russel westbrrok and its not even close lbj himself would admit both these things.. I like lebron but I call it how i see it.
Lebron is in the top 5 players of all time discussion. Kobe is not
Please stop with the nonsense
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Quote Originally Posted by bonilla420:
Kobe was better than lebron.. Also, as far as the best athlete to ever get on an nba court, Its Russel westbrrok and its not even close lbj himself would admit both these things.. I like lebron but I call it how i see it.
Lebron is in the top 5 players of all time discussion. Kobe is not
Before I make my argument, championships are a TEAM accomplishment. You won't see anyone arguing that Bill Russell is the GOAT. Anyways, James will surpass the "untouchable" Jordan.
1. Stats : James will surpass Jordan in every statistical category. He's already top 10 in points and top 20 in assists.
2. Competition : LeBron has beaten better teams. Jordan didn't win until the bad boys were washed up. James beat one of the best teams ever record wise, and beat a DYNASTY in the spurs.
3. Team performances w/o : LeBron takes his talents to south beach. CLE goes from 60+ wins to 60+ losses. He leaves Miami, and they miss the playoffs. Jordan goes to play baseball (know your role), and they go from a 57 win team to a 55 win team. LeBron isn't replaceable.
4. Performance in elimination games : When LeBron needs a W facing elimination, no one is better. He averages nearly 2 more points, 3 more boards, and 3% higher shooting percentage then Jordan.
5. Physicality : LeBron could go play tight end for Cleveland next season. 6'8 250. Jordan could play backup place kicker. (joke)
Everyone is brought up in this paradigm that always has said Jordan is the best. No one has questioned it. That is slowly changing. Regardless of who your GOAT of all time is, there is no denying that these 2 men are 1&2.
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Before I make my argument, championships are a TEAM accomplishment. You won't see anyone arguing that Bill Russell is the GOAT. Anyways, James will surpass the "untouchable" Jordan.
1. Stats : James will surpass Jordan in every statistical category. He's already top 10 in points and top 20 in assists.
2. Competition : LeBron has beaten better teams. Jordan didn't win until the bad boys were washed up. James beat one of the best teams ever record wise, and beat a DYNASTY in the spurs.
3. Team performances w/o : LeBron takes his talents to south beach. CLE goes from 60+ wins to 60+ losses. He leaves Miami, and they miss the playoffs. Jordan goes to play baseball (know your role), and they go from a 57 win team to a 55 win team. LeBron isn't replaceable.
4. Performance in elimination games : When LeBron needs a W facing elimination, no one is better. He averages nearly 2 more points, 3 more boards, and 3% higher shooting percentage then Jordan.
5. Physicality : LeBron could go play tight end for Cleveland next season. 6'8 250. Jordan could play backup place kicker. (joke)
Everyone is brought up in this paradigm that always has said Jordan is the best. No one has questioned it. That is slowly changing. Regardless of who your GOAT of all time is, there is no denying that these 2 men are 1&2.
Jordan was more clutch under pressure. Jordan had a better shot. Jordan did more with less. Lebron is great but not as good as Jordan. Lebron James takes advantage of week east conference. When mike Jordan played east was stronger than now. They are both top 5 all time
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Jordan was more clutch under pressure. Jordan had a better shot. Jordan did more with less. Lebron is great but not as good as Jordan. Lebron James takes advantage of week east conference. When mike Jordan played east was stronger than now. They are both top 5 all time
LeBron James will NEVER be "1000x better" than Michael Jordan
Not even 2x or "as good"
I don't care if he wins 7 championships...Which he WONT....and Cleveland won't this season...and SHOULDN'T have last season either..Golden State wins this year
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LeBron James will NEVER be "1000x better" than Michael Jordan
Not even 2x or "as good"
I don't care if he wins 7 championships...Which he WONT....and Cleveland won't this season...and SHOULDN'T have last season either..Golden State wins this year
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