vixen, i was mainly trying to outline how this phenomenon... came together, and i didnt leave out baby.., and to cover all bases, the original title always ended....with....and friends. which also covered all the lurkers who never or rarely posted..ULT1MA was the perfect candidate for styness ( is that a word) he followed for a long time and posted occasionally, and never a play, just comments...then he announced he had a play if we were interested, and he really helped us go on a torrid run of baseball plays early last season, as this one...ult1ma never forced himself onto us. .i really dont remember when you and ms cool came out of the shadows...but IM GLAD YOU DID!! i may have to make that NYC drive one day, and get all the big apple contingent together...my country boy self would be so lost in NYC...