You are wrong about Arizona..they had a horrible OL, they had a bottom 5 defense. You think I might know a thing or two about that team?
To answer your question..here are the current QB's I would take over Flacco-
Brady 2 Mannings Schuab Ben Rot Stafford Ryan Kap Brees Bradford Rodgers Griffin Luck Rivers
I think all of these players would perform better than Flacco if they were in his position.
Thats cool man. No point in talking anymore. So there are 13 people on earth right now you would take ove Flacco. I dont think any of them have more (maybe slightly more) playoff wins than Flacco (mannings and big ben maybe).....of course coming in a lot more than 5 years.
Matthew Stafford? Really? I hope thats a joke.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
You are wrong about Arizona..they had a horrible OL, they had a bottom 5 defense. You think I might know a thing or two about that team?
To answer your question..here are the current QB's I would take over Flacco-
Brady 2 Mannings Schuab Ben Rot Stafford Ryan Kap Brees Bradford Rodgers Griffin Luck Rivers
I think all of these players would perform better than Flacco if they were in his position.
Thats cool man. No point in talking anymore. So there are 13 people on earth right now you would take ove Flacco. I dont think any of them have more (maybe slightly more) playoff wins than Flacco (mannings and big ben maybe).....of course coming in a lot more than 5 years.
Better that we quit talking, you were trying to make a point and didnt really know what you were saying.
You thought Arizona had a great defense and OL while Warner was playing. That shows you didnt even slightly research your rebuttal.
And yes Stafford over Flacco. I think Baltimore would have won several SB's if most any of those guys were playing on that team during the years Flacco has. If you are saying 13 people on earth, I could add several more to that list.
Arizona had a good defense and line?
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Nope..
Better that we quit talking, you were trying to make a point and didnt really know what you were saying.
You thought Arizona had a great defense and OL while Warner was playing. That shows you didnt even slightly research your rebuttal.
And yes Stafford over Flacco. I think Baltimore would have won several SB's if most any of those guys were playing on that team during the years Flacco has. If you are saying 13 people on earth, I could add several more to that list.
You are wrong about Arizona..they had a horrible OL, they had a bottom 5 defense. You think I might know a thing or two about that team?
To answer your question..here are the current QB's I would take over Flacco-
Brady 2 Mannings Schuab Ben Roth Stafford Ryan Kap Brees Bradford Rodgers Griffin Luck Rivers
I think all of these players would perform better than Flacco if they were in his position.
The fact that you leave Russell Wilson off the list when you name like 5 QBs worse than him is funny.
You also criticize Flacco because of the weapons he has around him, yet you mention Warner. The guy who played with Faulk, Tory Holt and Issac Bruce to get to the superbowl. Then his 2nd time around he had Fitz/Boldin...and you talk about weapons.
Sam Bradford over Joe Flacco is the funniest thing I've read on covers in a long time.
Go back and watch the game yesterday. Ravens down 13-7, with 10 minutes left in the 3rd Q. Flacco leads a 10 play (9 throw) drive where he goes 6/9 for 62 yards. Go back and watch the throws he made on that drive, in one of the biggest series of his life. You need more than stats to judge a QB. Poise under pressure in one of the biggest factors in determining a QB.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
You are wrong about Arizona..they had a horrible OL, they had a bottom 5 defense. You think I might know a thing or two about that team?
To answer your question..here are the current QB's I would take over Flacco-
Brady 2 Mannings Schuab Ben Roth Stafford Ryan Kap Brees Bradford Rodgers Griffin Luck Rivers
I think all of these players would perform better than Flacco if they were in his position.
The fact that you leave Russell Wilson off the list when you name like 5 QBs worse than him is funny.
You also criticize Flacco because of the weapons he has around him, yet you mention Warner. The guy who played with Faulk, Tory Holt and Issac Bruce to get to the superbowl. Then his 2nd time around he had Fitz/Boldin...and you talk about weapons.
Sam Bradford over Joe Flacco is the funniest thing I've read on covers in a long time.
Go back and watch the game yesterday. Ravens down 13-7, with 10 minutes left in the 3rd Q. Flacco leads a 10 play (9 throw) drive where he goes 6/9 for 62 yards. Go back and watch the throws he made on that drive, in one of the biggest series of his life. You need more than stats to judge a QB. Poise under pressure in one of the biggest factors in determining a QB.
Bradford does not yet have a line..but I do trust their coach and think he WILL have a team around him in the next year or two..
I dont look at just team records while evaluating a QB, in fact often a QB can be better or worse than the team record..as is my opinion on Flacco and some others on my preferred list.
Warner spread the ball to all and any receivers. If you look at the roster the years he played and how many receivers had large numbers of yards..that goes to show his skills.
How has Larry done since Warner retired? I consider Boldin working on a team that does not utilize him properly, and even with all those other names around him the guy still is having consistent numbers and making the same catches he did as a Cardinal.
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Bradford does not yet have a line..but I do trust their coach and think he WILL have a team around him in the next year or two..
I dont look at just team records while evaluating a QB, in fact often a QB can be better or worse than the team record..as is my opinion on Flacco and some others on my preferred list.
Warner spread the ball to all and any receivers. If you look at the roster the years he played and how many receivers had large numbers of yards..that goes to show his skills.
How has Larry done since Warner retired? I consider Boldin working on a team that does not utilize him properly, and even with all those other names around him the guy still is having consistent numbers and making the same catches he did as a Cardinal.
I expect a lot more out of you wall. This is a horrible post. Just ignorant really. I expect this stuff from the newbs and rooks, but for you to post this drivel makes me shake my head......
+1 what a joke of a post
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
I expect a lot more out of you wall. This is a horrible post. Just ignorant really. I expect this stuff from the newbs and rooks, but for you to post this drivel makes me shake my head......
Better that we quit talking, you were trying to make a point and didnt really know what you were saying.
You thought Arizona had a great defense and OL while Warner was playing. That shows you didnt even slightly research your rebuttal.
And yes Stafford over Flacco. I think Baltimore would have won several SB's if most any of those guys were playing on that team during the years Flacco has. If you are saying 13 people on earth, I could add several more to that list.
Arizona had a good defense and line?
My point was you are wrong for not "giving respect". More playoff road wins than anybody in NFL history pretty much sums it up.
He just literally beat 2 of the people on your list ON THE ROAD as dd dogs.....Yep, what a bum.
Hes only been in the league 5 years for gods sake and already owns quite a few NFL records....
Guess you were in a coma the last week....didnt research that huh?
I thought more highly of you until this thread.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Nope..
Better that we quit talking, you were trying to make a point and didnt really know what you were saying.
You thought Arizona had a great defense and OL while Warner was playing. That shows you didnt even slightly research your rebuttal.
And yes Stafford over Flacco. I think Baltimore would have won several SB's if most any of those guys were playing on that team during the years Flacco has. If you are saying 13 people on earth, I could add several more to that list.
Arizona had a good defense and line?
My point was you are wrong for not "giving respect". More playoff road wins than anybody in NFL history pretty much sums it up.
He just literally beat 2 of the people on your list ON THE ROAD as dd dogs.....Yep, what a bum.
Hes only been in the league 5 years for gods sake and already owns quite a few NFL records....
Guess you were in a coma the last week....didnt research that huh?
I am fine with you not thinking highly of me..you are not too keen on knowing that a QB is not the only reason teams win games and that a QB can be great and not have a large number of playoff wins..AND the measure of an elite QB is not only playoff wins.
Translation, you lack perspective and you cannot back up your generalized comments.
You put any of those guys on that same team and the results would be the same or better.
Flacco's numbers speak for themselves. I put Eli in the same type of category but Eli above Flacco marginally.
Yeah I was in a coma..I guess I bet on New England..
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I am fine with you not thinking highly of me..you are not too keen on knowing that a QB is not the only reason teams win games and that a QB can be great and not have a large number of playoff wins..AND the measure of an elite QB is not only playoff wins.
Translation, you lack perspective and you cannot back up your generalized comments.
You put any of those guys on that same team and the results would be the same or better.
Flacco's numbers speak for themselves. I put Eli in the same type of category but Eli above Flacco marginally.
Yeah I was in a coma..I guess I bet on New England..
The fact that you leave Russell Wilson off the list when you name like 5 QBs worse than him is funny.
You also criticize Flacco because of the weapons he has around him, yet you mention Warner. The guy who played with Faulk, Tory Holt and Issac Bruce to get to the superbowl. Then his 2nd time around he had Fitz/Boldin...and you talk about weapons.
Sam Bradford over Joe Flacco is the funniest thing I've read on covers in a long time.
Go back and watch the game yesterday. Ravens down 13-7, with 10 minutes left in the 3rd Q. Flacco leads a 10 play (9 throw) drive where he goes 6/9 for 62 yards. Go back and watch the throws he made on that drive, in one of the biggest series of his life. You need more than stats to judge a QB. Poise under pressure in one of the biggest factors in determining a QB.
not to mention Flacco was making those great throws on a very windy day, so windy that Brady was throwing bounce passes all day and looked terrible
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Quote Originally Posted by earthWake:
The fact that you leave Russell Wilson off the list when you name like 5 QBs worse than him is funny.
You also criticize Flacco because of the weapons he has around him, yet you mention Warner. The guy who played with Faulk, Tory Holt and Issac Bruce to get to the superbowl. Then his 2nd time around he had Fitz/Boldin...and you talk about weapons.
Sam Bradford over Joe Flacco is the funniest thing I've read on covers in a long time.
Go back and watch the game yesterday. Ravens down 13-7, with 10 minutes left in the 3rd Q. Flacco leads a 10 play (9 throw) drive where he goes 6/9 for 62 yards. Go back and watch the throws he made on that drive, in one of the biggest series of his life. You need more than stats to judge a QB. Poise under pressure in one of the biggest factors in determining a QB.
not to mention Flacco was making those great throws on a very windy day, so windy that Brady was throwing bounce passes all day and looked terrible
I don't know that I'd have a long a list of QB's I'd take over Flacco - he clearly has gotten better as his career has progressed, but he did have stinker playoff games against the Steelers earlier in his career.
I think saying Rodgers, Luck, and Griffin if you were starting a team are no brainers over Flacco.
But honestly at this point, how can you say Brady or Manning (either of them)? Flacco is younger than Eli and Peyton clearly can't win big games in the post-season. Brady has been beaten by Flacco 2 of the last 3 playoff matchups and just doesn't seem to be the same guy from early in his career. He'll be 36 to start next season.
Rivers? No freakin' way
Kap - lots of upside there, but honestly a tough call.
Big Ben? - hmmmm, Flacco is younger and I do wonder about Ben's longevity at this point, the guy has been getting killed for years now.
The others aren't even worth considering, IMO.
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I don't know that I'd have a long a list of QB's I'd take over Flacco - he clearly has gotten better as his career has progressed, but he did have stinker playoff games against the Steelers earlier in his career.
I think saying Rodgers, Luck, and Griffin if you were starting a team are no brainers over Flacco.
But honestly at this point, how can you say Brady or Manning (either of them)? Flacco is younger than Eli and Peyton clearly can't win big games in the post-season. Brady has been beaten by Flacco 2 of the last 3 playoff matchups and just doesn't seem to be the same guy from early in his career. He'll be 36 to start next season.
Rivers? No freakin' way
Kap - lots of upside there, but honestly a tough call.
Big Ben? - hmmmm, Flacco is younger and I do wonder about Ben's longevity at this point, the guy has been getting killed for years now.
Oh Russell Wilson. Again, tough call, I do worry about his height even though he had a great year. I bet half the GM's would take him over Flacco and half wouldn't. As a guess...
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Oh Russell Wilson. Again, tough call, I do worry about his height even though he had a great year. I bet half the GM's would take him over Flacco and half wouldn't. As a guess...
Wilson I did not list as he is quite new and I am not so sure the team does not make him look better.
I've seen him against the Cards and since they are in the same division but as a pure QB, not just a game manager I am not sure just yet.
He had a great QB rating but the number of passes he rates 25th, so I would need a season or two more to decide about him. I think Seattle does a great job in protecting him and the defense is improving, so he does not have to force things or take as many risks..but it is just the first year so I reserve any comments until year two or three.
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Wilson I did not list as he is quite new and I am not so sure the team does not make him look better.
I've seen him against the Cards and since they are in the same division but as a pure QB, not just a game manager I am not sure just yet.
He had a great QB rating but the number of passes he rates 25th, so I would need a season or two more to decide about him. I think Seattle does a great job in protecting him and the defense is improving, so he does not have to force things or take as many risks..but it is just the first year so I reserve any comments until year two or three.
I am fine with you not thinking highly of me..you are not too keen on knowing that a QB is not the only reason teams win games and that a QB can be great and not have a large number of playoff wins..AND the measure of an elite QB is not only playoff wins.
Translation, you lack perspective and you cannot back up your generalized comments.
You put any of those guys on that same team and the results would be the same or better.
Flacco's numbers speak for themselves. I put Eli in the same type of category but Eli above Flacco marginally.
Yeah I was in a coma..I guess I bet on New England..
I dont lack perspective. You just said you cant measure a QB by wins and losses....but you can measure them off stats? I never said Flacco was great, hes not. You said you didnt respect the man. Why not? Because in hypothetical land Peyton manning and Joe Montana could have won a couple more playoff games (mostly on the road too boot)?
I dont understand not giving the man some credit.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
I am fine with you not thinking highly of me..you are not too keen on knowing that a QB is not the only reason teams win games and that a QB can be great and not have a large number of playoff wins..AND the measure of an elite QB is not only playoff wins.
Translation, you lack perspective and you cannot back up your generalized comments.
You put any of those guys on that same team and the results would be the same or better.
Flacco's numbers speak for themselves. I put Eli in the same type of category but Eli above Flacco marginally.
Yeah I was in a coma..I guess I bet on New England..
I dont lack perspective. You just said you cant measure a QB by wins and losses....but you can measure them off stats? I never said Flacco was great, hes not. You said you didnt respect the man. Why not? Because in hypothetical land Peyton manning and Joe Montana could have won a couple more playoff games (mostly on the road too boot)?
I dont lack perspective. You just said you cant measure a QB by wins and losses....but you can measure them off stats? I never said Flacco was great, hes not. You said you didnt respect the man. Why not? Because in hypothetical land Peyton manning and Joe Montana could have won a couple more playoff games (mostly on the road too boot)?
I dont understand not giving the man some credit.
He hasnt earned credit yet..and he really hasnt played on a bad team his entire career.
He is merely in a group of many so-so QB's who have played on great teams..he has plenty to prove.
Guys like Kyle Boller and Vinnie T and Trent Dilfer had good seasons on decent teams..
When calling a QB elite, if they play on a great team then great results are expected.
Which season did he elevate the team based on just his numbers and accomplishments?
This year his numbers are just in line with his career numbers..same percentage of completion, same average passing yards per play, slightly more than average pass attempts..
I dont call a guy with a career 86 passer rating with no Superbowl wins great.
He could be great, but on a team like this he would need to win a few Superbowls OR go to a team where he had to take a team on his back and carry them to the next level before I call him great or give him respect.
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
I dont lack perspective. You just said you cant measure a QB by wins and losses....but you can measure them off stats? I never said Flacco was great, hes not. You said you didnt respect the man. Why not? Because in hypothetical land Peyton manning and Joe Montana could have won a couple more playoff games (mostly on the road too boot)?
I dont understand not giving the man some credit.
He hasnt earned credit yet..and he really hasnt played on a bad team his entire career.
He is merely in a group of many so-so QB's who have played on great teams..he has plenty to prove.
Guys like Kyle Boller and Vinnie T and Trent Dilfer had good seasons on decent teams..
When calling a QB elite, if they play on a great team then great results are expected.
Which season did he elevate the team based on just his numbers and accomplishments?
This year his numbers are just in line with his career numbers..same percentage of completion, same average passing yards per play, slightly more than average pass attempts..
I dont call a guy with a career 86 passer rating with no Superbowl wins great.
He could be great, but on a team like this he would need to win a few Superbowls OR go to a team where he had to take a team on his back and carry them to the next level before I call him great or give him respect.
He hasnt earned credit yet..and he really hasnt played on a bad team his entire career.
He is merely in a group of many so-so QB's who have played on great teams..he has plenty to prove.
Guys like Kyle Boller and Vinnie T and Trent Dilfer had good seasons on decent teams..
When calling a QB elite, if they play on a great team then great results are expected.
Which season did he elevate the team based on just his numbers and accomplishments?
This year his numbers are just in line with his career numbers..same percentage of completion, same average passing yards per play, slightly more than average pass attempts..
I dont call a guy with a career 86 passer rating with no Superbowl wins great.
He could be great, but on a team like this he would need to win a few Superbowls OR go to a team where he had to take a team on his back and carry them to the next level before I call him great or give him respect.
Wow.
I read all of that and you keep saying great and elite. So you have to have Drew Brees numbers to get respect?
What great teams hes been on are you referring to?
2008/2009
RB Leron Mcclain/rookie Ray Rice WRs Mark Clayton and Derrick Mason
08 - Lost on the road in AFC champ game to the SB winner Steelers
09- Lost @ Indy and Peyton Manning in 2nd round
2010 added wrs Boldin/houshmanzada went 12-4, lost @ pitt in 2nd round
2011 Should have went to SB if Lee Evans doesnt drop pass in endzone
2012 - 2 road wins as 9/10 point dogs....going to SB. Ravens defense not in top 1/2 of the league this year.
2012 playoffs:
Flacco 51/93 , 853 yards, 8 tds 0 ints average rating of 115
Yep, guys a scrub. No respect should be given. Guy just wins.
Now Matthew Stafford on the other hand, guys a stud. Can throw jump balls to the best reciever in the game. He gets respect.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
He hasnt earned credit yet..and he really hasnt played on a bad team his entire career.
He is merely in a group of many so-so QB's who have played on great teams..he has plenty to prove.
Guys like Kyle Boller and Vinnie T and Trent Dilfer had good seasons on decent teams..
When calling a QB elite, if they play on a great team then great results are expected.
Which season did he elevate the team based on just his numbers and accomplishments?
This year his numbers are just in line with his career numbers..same percentage of completion, same average passing yards per play, slightly more than average pass attempts..
I dont call a guy with a career 86 passer rating with no Superbowl wins great.
He could be great, but on a team like this he would need to win a few Superbowls OR go to a team where he had to take a team on his back and carry them to the next level before I call him great or give him respect.
Wow.
I read all of that and you keep saying great and elite. So you have to have Drew Brees numbers to get respect?
What great teams hes been on are you referring to?
2008/2009
RB Leron Mcclain/rookie Ray Rice WRs Mark Clayton and Derrick Mason
08 - Lost on the road in AFC champ game to the SB winner Steelers
09- Lost @ Indy and Peyton Manning in 2nd round
2010 added wrs Boldin/houshmanzada went 12-4, lost @ pitt in 2nd round
2011 Should have went to SB if Lee Evans doesnt drop pass in endzone
2012 - 2 road wins as 9/10 point dogs....going to SB. Ravens defense not in top 1/2 of the league this year.
2012 playoffs:
Flacco 51/93 , 853 yards, 8 tds 0 ints average rating of 115
Yep, guys a scrub. No respect should be given. Guy just wins.
Now Matthew Stafford on the other hand, guys a stud. Can throw jump balls to the best reciever in the game. He gets respect.
Here is what i find funny about how we view players today..
IF a QB does not take his team to the Superbowl, we say he choked.. or he can't win the big one etc...
This is the facts.. This is the NFL and we are talking about the most difficult position to play in the game.. Joe Flacco has accomplished a ton, and is a GREAT QB in the NFL.. that was true before he beat Brady.. He solidified what we all should already know...
I am guilty of it as well, but if you really sit back and watch what these guys do... We have zero credit for our criticism..Am I wrong?? These guys are amazing athletes..
I am happy for Joe Flacco, as I think he is a GOOD DUDE... I think he is a GREAT QB in the game today... I am not putting him up there with the elites just yet... BUT, he is on his way.. Well done Joe..
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Here is what i find funny about how we view players today..
IF a QB does not take his team to the Superbowl, we say he choked.. or he can't win the big one etc...
This is the facts.. This is the NFL and we are talking about the most difficult position to play in the game.. Joe Flacco has accomplished a ton, and is a GREAT QB in the NFL.. that was true before he beat Brady.. He solidified what we all should already know...
I am guilty of it as well, but if you really sit back and watch what these guys do... We have zero credit for our criticism..Am I wrong?? These guys are amazing athletes..
I am happy for Joe Flacco, as I think he is a GOOD DUDE... I think he is a GREAT QB in the game today... I am not putting him up there with the elites just yet... BUT, he is on his way.. Well done Joe..
what wall st is saying is flacco was the weak link in some monster squads.
I understand what he is saying. I didnt say he wasnt correct. However, does that mean he doesnt deserve respect for what he has accomplished? If you own any record in the NFL is pretty impressive to me considering there have been thousands of players and games and some "elite" players at every position. Also, to have those records in just 5 years? Pretty impressive.
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Quote Originally Posted by BIGfnPOO:
what wall st is saying is flacco was the weak link in some monster squads.
I understand what he is saying. I didnt say he wasnt correct. However, does that mean he doesnt deserve respect for what he has accomplished? If you own any record in the NFL is pretty impressive to me considering there have been thousands of players and games and some "elite" players at every position. Also, to have those records in just 5 years? Pretty impressive.
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Schaub, Stafford, Bradford, & Rivers over Flacco 
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