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One of these times, the mistake of scoring instead of taking a knee....

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Captain
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Posted: #201
I would say that whether it was 3rd down or 2nd down is immaterial, while you seem to base your whole case on it.

Actually, I'm pointing out that you don't really have a clue.

Its dinner time for me.

Yet you're still here, saying the same stupid things...


 
Legend
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Posted: #202
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

I think we have gotten off subject....

Can you reread my original post and tell me where you disagree?  Or can you make a case that kneeling down is worse than kicking off?

Either would be great, because you do a lot of chirping, and have never addressed the point.

(I expect total avoidance to this request because as you state, you prefer to deflect instead of debate the topic)

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Captain
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Posted: #203
Can you reread my original post and tell me where you disagree?

You mean other than the fact that you've criticized something that has never happened?

Or you mean other than you're making up fake probabilities?
 
Captain
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Posted: #204
have never addressed the point

are you illiterate?

You are wrong.

spectacularly wrong.
 
Prospect
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Posted: #205
Can't believe people are still arguing with you Vanzack. Btw, do you remember the Atlanta / SF game earlier in the season? That dumbass 49er player picks off Ryan with about a minute to go and instead of going down, he tries to score and fumbles. Atlanta gets the ball back and wins the game.
 BUT lets just say he doesn't fumble, scores a TD, San Fran up by nine with a minute to go. Atlanta can still (although slim chance) score a TD, recover onside kick and score again for the win. But if he goes down after the pick. The game is over. Don't know why people can't grasp this.
 
Legend
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Posted: #206
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

I think we have gotten off subject....

Can you reread my original post and tell me where you disagree?  Or can you make a case that kneeling down is worse than kicking off?

Either would be great, because you do a lot of chirping, and have never addressed the point.

(I expect total avoidance to this request because as you state, you prefer to deflect instead of debate the topic)

I guess you cant.

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Captain
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Posted: #207
vanzack Assertion:
They went from 100% winning the game, to 98% winning the game.

Assertion has no data to back this up.

You are wrong, and are not intelligent or informed enough to understand why.
 
Legend
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Posted: #208

Quote Originally Posted by MelKiper:

Can't believe people are still arguing with you Vanzack. Btw, do you remember the Atlanta / SF game earlier in the season? That dumbass 49er player picks off Ryan with about a minute to go and instead of going down, he tries to score and fumbles. Atlanta gets the ball back and wins the game.
 BUT lets just say he doesn't fumble, scores a TD, San Fran up by nine with a minute to go. Atlanta can still (although slim chance) score a TD, recover onside kick and score again for the win. But if he goes down after the pick. The game is over. Don't know why people can't grasp this.

14daroad is getting ready to type that because this didnt actually happen, it is impossible to assume it could happen.

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Captain
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Posted: #209
Vanzack assertion:
No NFL team has ever fumbled a kneel down, ever.  That equals 100%



It was fun to watch you walk back from that one.

You are wrong and you are not intelligent enough to understand why...
 
Captain
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Posted: #210
Vanzack assertion:
No NFL team has ever fumbled a kneel down, ever.  That equals 100%

And no NFL team has ever lost by adding a late score instead of kneeling down.
 
Captain
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Posted: #211
14daroad is getting ready to type that because this didnt actually happen, it is impossible to assume it could happen.

Actually, I'm not.

Again, you don't know what "probability" means.

But that's a you problem.
 
Legend
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Posted: #212

Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

vanzack Assertion:
They went from 100% winning the game, to 98% winning the game.

Assertion has no data to back this up.

You are wrong, and are not intelligent or informed enough to understand why.

OK.  We might be making progress.

So you have a problem with my assigment of probabilities, not my original statement?

You are a stickler for the numbers I used (100 and 98)?

You are not making a case that kneeling is worse than kicking, you just dont agree with my assinemnt of the probabilities?

Lets advance this discussion.  Try to focus.

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Captain
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Posted: #213
vanzack assertion:
They went from 100% winner to <100% by choice

Said assertion is false.
 
Legend
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Posted: #214

Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Vanzack assertion:
No NFL team has ever fumbled a kneel down, ever.  That equals 100%

And no NFL team has ever lost by adding a late score instead of kneeling down.


But teams have scored 2 td's in 1.42 (about) seconds with 1 timeout.

Are you serious?

Teams havent scored a TD on a wednesday while singing take me out to the ballgame either, but they have scored TD's before.

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Captain
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Posted: #215
Can you reread my original post and tell me where you disagree?

Er, I disagree with the whole thing.

You have no facts, you have no data. You are making a criticism of something that has never happened.
 
Captain
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Posted: #216
But teams have scored 2 td's in 1.42 (about) seconds with 1 timeout.

Again, you're like a child that just learned a big word.

Shouldn't you have left already?

I mean, you did your whole "look how many people agree" schict and threatened to leave.

Again, you should have stopped 50 posts ago.
 
Legend
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Posted: #217

Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

vanzack assertion:
They went from 100% winner to <100% by choice

Said assertion is false.

So I am once again sensing that you have a problem with my use of numbers to assign probabilities.

I would welcome a discussion about that.  Go right ahead and state your case.  Tell me what the probability of the two events happening, in your opinion, is.

I think the issue here is you are hellbent on one detail of my point, and in the end, even if that detail is wrong,it doesnt disprove my original statement.

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Legend
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Posted: #218

Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Can you reread my original post and tell me where you disagree?

Er, I disagree with the whole thing.

You have no facts, you have no data. You are making a criticism of something that has never happened.


So you are saying that you cannot assign probabilities to something that has never happened.

Please verify.

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Captain
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Posted: #219
     In week 16 the Colts were up by 5 on the Raiders with 1:39 left.  The Colts had the ball at Oakland's 31.  Peyton Manning ran to the four yard line and decided to not score.  He slid at the 4 yard line when nobody was in his way to score. 
     I kind of understand the concept here, because then you can just kneel on the ball and run out the final 1:25 or whatever, but up by 5 you have a chance to go up by 12.  This I think would have been the smarter move.  Now granted, possibly 999 times out of 1,000 you're going to kneel and win the game.  But just what if there's a bad exchange between the center and QB? 
     I honestly think that scoring and going up by 12 in this case would be the better move.
     That said, what are the odds that the other team will return the kick for a TD and get the onside kick and then score another TD all in the span of 1:25?  Probably about 1 in 10,000.

 
Legend
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Posted: #220

Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:

     In week 16 the Colts were up by 5 on the Raiders with 1:39 left.  The Colts had the ball at Oakland's 31.  Peyton Manning ran to the four yard line and decided to not score.  He slid at the 4 yard line when nobody was in his way to score. 
     I kind of understand the concept here, because then you can just kneel on the ball and run out the final 1:25 or whatever, but up by 5 you have a chance to go up by 12.  This I think would have been the smarter move.  Now granted, possibly 999 times out of 1,000 you're going to kneel and win the game.  But just what if there's a bad exchange between the center and QB? 
     I honestly think that scoring and going up by 12 in this case would be the better move.
     That said, what are the odds that the other team will return the kick for a TD and get the onside kick and then score another TD all in the span of 1:25?  Probably about 1 in 10,000.

Sir -

I congratulate you.

You are the first person in this thread to state a case of WHY kneeling is not better than kicking off.

I totally disagree with your opinion, but I certainly hold you in the highest regard for your abillity to discuss the debate at hand.

Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
 
Prospect
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Posted: #221
so, after reading the 1st 6 pages I start thinking, "Vanzack is a total moron for wasting his time trying to make complete dopes understand the right thing to do", after reading the next 3 pages I'm left thinking, "I am a complete dope for taking 20 minutes to read a thread about someone trying to help out helpless dopes"


 
Legend
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Posted: #222
Quote Originally Posted by tlosers:

so, after reading the 1st 6 pages I start thinking, "Vanzack is a total moron for wasting his time trying to make complete dopes understand the right thing to do", after reading the next 3 pages I'm left thinking, "I am a complete dope for taking 20 minutes to read a thread about someone trying to help out helpless dopes"


I am a total moron, I agree.  I dont know why I cant help myself.

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Prospect
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Posted: #223
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

I am a total moron, I agree.  I dont know why I cant help myself.



Bottom line Vanzack is that people actually believe a team scoring 2 touchdowns in 1:40 (with the help of an onside kick) is less likely to happen than fumbling a snap in victory formation. Just let them have their opinion. LoL
 
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Posted: #224

Joe Piscarik fumbling against the Eagles along time ago,and costing them the game is why the victory formation is used today....

Herman Edwards ....ran it in...

 
 
Prospect
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Posted: #225
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Can you reread my original post and tell me where you disagree?

Er, I disagree with the whole thing.

You have no facts, you have no data. You are making a criticism of something that has never happened.


Vanzack, I agree with it. I didn't have a rooting side either way, but after they scored that touchdown, I really wanted to see the Pats come back with another TD to pull out the win and make the Jets (and Rex Ryan) look stupid for trying to rub it in.

And as far as 14daroad, I find it even more amusing that your'e basically refuting the point that Vanzack is trying to make, by saying he has no data and no fact, but then you explicitly say the exact same thing, on the other side of the argument. You may as well have said "I disagree with you, and want to completely discard you're factless argument, by introducing a factless argument". Impressive......
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