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    All Forums | NFL Betting Forum

    The Elephant In The Room Nobody Is Talking About: Rams vs Pats

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    begginerboy
    Lets_Get_em
    budwiser
    walkingdude
    nature1970
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    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 2:40 PM ET #1

    People who think the Rams are this year's Eagles, (i.e., a team with great offensive balance, a good QB, a great coach, and a defense that will stop the Pats/Brady just enough to get the victory) forget one very important fact. One of the biggest reasons for the Pats losing the SB last year was the benching of Malcolm Butler:

    Another Patriots playoff hero, Danny Amendola, apparently asked why Butler was benched for the game, and he didn't get any answers, either. 

    "I have my thoughts about it because I was out there putting my blood, sweat and tears out on the field that night, and one of our best players wasn't on the field," Amendola said, per ESPN.com. "To tell you the truth, I don't know why. I did ask, but I didn't get any answers. I can't make decisions like that, so I don't necessarily worry about it, but I know Malcolm is a great player and he could have helped us win. For whatever reason, he wasn't out there. He's going to play more football in his career, and he's going to be a great player for a long time."
    Amendola also still feels like the decision to bench Butler had an effect on the players who actually took the field. 

    "Yeah, I did, honestly," Amendola said. "Nobody really got an explanation for it. He's a brother of ours. He was a brother of ours that year. And I hate to see a guy who worked so hard throughout the season not get a chance to play in the biggest game of the year and really get no explanation for it. With that said, I don't know how the business aspect went into that decision. I don't know how the personal aspect went into that decision between him and Bill (Belichick). But as a friend, I would have loved to see him on the field that day."

    In essence, BB's benching of Butler not only caused a distraction (for a team that prides itself on keeping distractions to a minimum) but it also divided the locker room. And yet, despite this controversial decision (which was as much ego driven as anything else) the Pats put up 33 points against one of the best defenses in the league to stay in the game even though their defense was a mess and the team, because of BB's decision to bench Butler, was not the cohesive unit it would have been. 

    Although the Rams offense is arguably better than the Eagles offense last year (Eagles averaged 28.6 points a game and the Rams 32.9) this Rams defense is no where near as good as that Eagles defense. Hence, I see this game as being the exact opposite of last year's game. It will be the NE defense (now without all the distractions/controversy) that will get enough stops to let Brady and the offense win this game for NE and cement Brady's legacy as the GOAT. 

    The Play: Pats -2 for 5 units

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    People who think the Rams are this year's Eagles, (i.e., a team with great offensive balance, a good QB, a great coach, and a defense that will stop the Pats/Brady just enough to get the victory) forget one very important fact. One of the biggest reasons for the Pats losing the SB last year was the benching of Malcolm Butler:

    Another Patriots playoff hero, Danny Amendola, apparently asked why Butler was benched for the game, and he didn't get any answers, either. 

    "I have my thoughts about it because I was out there putting my blood, sweat and tears out on the field that night, and one of our best players wasn't on the field," Amendola said, per ESPN.com. "To tell you the truth, I don't know why. I did ask, but I didn't get any answers. I can't make decisions like that, so I don't necessarily worry about it, but I know Malcolm is a great player and he could have helped us win. For whatever reason, he wasn't out there. He's going to play more football in his career, and he's going to be a great player for a long time."
    Amendola also still feels like the decision to bench Butler had an effect on the players who actually took the field. 

    "Yeah, I did, honestly," Amendola said. "Nobody really got an explanation for it. He's a brother of ours. He was a brother of ours that year. And I hate to see a guy who worked so hard throughout the season not get a chance to play in the biggest game of the year and really get no explanation for it. With that said, I don't know how the business aspect went into that decision. I don't know how the personal aspect went into that decision between him and Bill (Belichick). But as a friend, I would have loved to see him on the field that day."

    In essence, BB's benching of Butler not only caused a distraction (for a team that prides itself on keeping distractions to a minimum) but it also divided the locker room. And yet, despite this controversial decision (which was as much ego driven as anything else) the Pats put up 33 points against one of the best defenses in the league to stay in the game even though their defense was a mess and the team, because of BB's decision to bench Butler, was not the cohesive unit it would have been. 

    Although the Rams offense is arguably better than the Eagles offense last year (Eagles averaged 28.6 points a game and the Rams 32.9) this Rams defense is no where near as good as that Eagles defense. Hence, I see this game as being the exact opposite of last year's game. It will be the NE defense (now without all the distractions/controversy) that will get enough stops to let Brady and the offense win this game for NE and cement Brady's legacy as the GOAT. 

    The Play: Pats -2 for 5 units

     
    Lets_Get_em
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:17 PM ET #2

    Go Get em Mah Mann BB
      #SeeYaAtTheWindow
    Believe in QUALITY over quantity.
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    Go Get em Mah Mann BB
      #SeeYaAtTheWindow
     
    budwiser
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:23 PM ET #3

    I'm still confused sorry. what does this game have to do with Butler...

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    I'm still confused sorry. what does this game have to do with Butler...

     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:27 PM ET #4

    Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:

    I'm still confused sorry. what does this game have to do with Butler...


    REDEMPTION!
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:

    I'm still confused sorry. what does this game have to do with Butler...


    REDEMPTION!
     
    budwiser
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:32 PM ET #5

    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:

    I'm still confused sorry. what does this game have to do with Butler...
    REDEMPTION!

    Sorry guy...

    Malcolm Butler supposedly has been garbage for the TEnnessee Titans.  Who aren't playing in the Super Bowl.

    I guess I was born yesterday, i just don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:

    I'm still confused sorry. what does this game have to do with Butler...
    REDEMPTION!

    Sorry guy...

    Malcolm Butler supposedly has been garbage for the TEnnessee Titans.  Who aren't playing in the Super Bowl.

    I guess I was born yesterday, i just don't get it.

     
    walkingdude
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:32 PM ET #6

    Butler is now Gilmore and he will play almost every snap on D.
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    Butler is now Gilmore and he will play almost every snap on D.
     
    budwiser
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:37 PM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by walkingdude:

    Butler is now Gilmore and he will play almost every snap on D.

    ok I get it.

    Good stuff man an angle nobody thought of!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by walkingdude:

    Butler is now Gilmore and he will play almost every snap on D.

    ok I get it.

    Good stuff man an angle nobody thought of!!

     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:43 PM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:

    REDEMPTION!

    Sorry guy...

    Malcolm Butler supposedly has been garbage for the TEnnessee Titans.  Who aren't playing in the Super Bowl.

    I guess I was born yesterday, i just don't get it.


    It's not about Butler. It's about the decision to bench Butler. The consequences of that decision, the effect it had on the team and the game (i.e., losing a SB they feel they should have won), how the trust/relationship between the coach and his players was tested/strained, and how all of that sets this SB up as a redemption game for all those involved. Sorry to tax your brain, but the concept of redemption is not difficult to grasp. You may not believe in it, but there is an entire religion (called Christianity) that is founded on it. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:

    REDEMPTION!

    Sorry guy...

    Malcolm Butler supposedly has been garbage for the TEnnessee Titans.  Who aren't playing in the Super Bowl.

    I guess I was born yesterday, i just don't get it.


    It's not about Butler. It's about the decision to bench Butler. The consequences of that decision, the effect it had on the team and the game (i.e., losing a SB they feel they should have won), how the trust/relationship between the coach and his players was tested/strained, and how all of that sets this SB up as a redemption game for all those involved. Sorry to tax your brain, but the concept of redemption is not difficult to grasp. You may not believe in it, but there is an entire religion (called Christianity) that is founded on it. 
     
    nature1970
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:46 PM ET #9

    Lolololol..... the elephant is why did the refs gift wrap goof to superbowl. To have them crushed by new england again. Rams o pays 1 redemption dictates rams 1 patsys 1

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    Lolololol..... the elephant is why did the refs gift wrap goof to superbowl. To have them crushed by new england again. Rams o pays 1 redemption dictates rams 1 patsys 1

     
    budwiser
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 3:53 PM ET #10

    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    It's not about Butler. It's about the decision to bench Butler. The consequences of that decision, the effect it had on the team and the game (i.e., losing a SB they feel they should have won), how the trust/relationship between the coach and his players was tested/strained, and how all of that sets this SB up as a redemption game for all those involved. Sorry to tax your brain, but the concept of redemption is not difficult to grasp. You may not believe in it, but there is an entire religion (called Christianity) that is founded on it.

    No I hear ya.  They want to prove it was the right decision.  The poor play.

    I still think it was a stupid decision to bench Butler.  So they may still be feeling the effects of that-instead of redemption, fear.  Eagles with 41 points, you can argue it couldn't have been any worse with Butler in there.

    I don't believe in this as a major factor in the game, but it's a good angle to think about (along with lots of others).  jmo

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    It's not about Butler. It's about the decision to bench Butler. The consequences of that decision, the effect it had on the team and the game (i.e., losing a SB they feel they should have won), how the trust/relationship between the coach and his players was tested/strained, and how all of that sets this SB up as a redemption game for all those involved. Sorry to tax your brain, but the concept of redemption is not difficult to grasp. You may not believe in it, but there is an entire religion (called Christianity) that is founded on it.

    No I hear ya.  They want to prove it was the right decision.  The poor play.

    I still think it was a stupid decision to bench Butler.  So they may still be feeling the effects of that-instead of redemption, fear.  Eagles with 41 points, you can argue it couldn't have been any worse with Butler in there.

    I don't believe in this as a major factor in the game, but it's a good angle to think about (along with lots of others).  jmo

     

     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 4:05 PM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:

    No I hear ya.  They want to prove it was the right decision.  The poor play.

    I still think it was a stupid decision to bench Butler.  So they may still be feeling the effects of that-instead of redemption, fear.  Eagles with 41 points, you can argue it couldn't have been any worse with Butler in there.

    I don't believe in this as a major factor in the game, but it's a good angle to think about (along with lots of others).  jmo

     


    It will also be interesting to see how much of a factor/distraction the non pass interference call will become for the Rams next week when they get questioned on it. Obviously, they'll want to prove that they deserve to be in the big game, that it was well earned, but something tells me they won't be able to. If you recall the SB during deflate gate, the Hawks were up by 10 (late) against NE and then should have won the game at the Goal Line. Additionally, the Hawks defense was really banged up (as we found out later), so the deflate gate distraction really should have cost the Pats the SB. The fact that it didn't, does not mean the distraction was not real and/or did not work against them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwiser:

    No I hear ya.  They want to prove it was the right decision.  The poor play.

    I still think it was a stupid decision to bench Butler.  So they may still be feeling the effects of that-instead of redemption, fear.  Eagles with 41 points, you can argue it couldn't have been any worse with Butler in there.

    I don't believe in this as a major factor in the game, but it's a good angle to think about (along with lots of others).  jmo

     


    It will also be interesting to see how much of a factor/distraction the non pass interference call will become for the Rams next week when they get questioned on it. Obviously, they'll want to prove that they deserve to be in the big game, that it was well earned, but something tells me they won't be able to. If you recall the SB during deflate gate, the Hawks were up by 10 (late) against NE and then should have won the game at the Goal Line. Additionally, the Hawks defense was really banged up (as we found out later), so the deflate gate distraction really should have cost the Pats the SB. The fact that it didn't, does not mean the distraction was not real and/or did not work against them.
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 4:10 PM ET #12

    And here we go:

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25863631/concern-nfl-4-officials-nfc-championship-game-live-southern-california
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    And here we go:

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25863631/concern-nfl-4-officials-nfc-championship-game-live-southern-california
     
    buffer
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 4:10 PM ET #13

    Pats took a dive last year by benching Butler. They cooperated with the NFL now that are free to win this years game.
    “The average erect gorilla penis is 3cm (1.25 inches) long”
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    Pats took a dive last year by benching Butler. They cooperated with the NFL now that are free to win this years game.
     
    Goggles-Pisano
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 4:11 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    And here we go:

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25863631/concern-nfl-4-officials-nfc-championship-game-live-southern-california

    Damn I just started this thread 7 seconds after u posted this
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    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    And here we go:

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25863631/concern-nfl-4-officials-nfc-championship-game-live-southern-california

    Damn I just started this thread 7 seconds after u posted this
     
    DoctorSuccess
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 6:56 PM ET #15

    Excellent point, BB. I don't always agree with your picks, but your analysis is always unique and insightful. You're one of the more valuable contributors to this forum. 
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    Excellent point, BB. I don't always agree with your picks, but your analysis is always unique and insightful. You're one of the more valuable contributors to this forum. 
     
    Achilles1629
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 7:15 PM ET #16

    Let’s make it more simple. Brady and Belly lost to a backup last year. They aren’t losing to Jared Goff this year. Brady and Belly worked their a$$es off to build their legacy and if they were lose to Foles and Goff in back to back big games, putting Brady and Belly at 5-4 in the big game, that ain’t looking great. They made Rivers look like a rookie and they beat Mahomes. Goff will be a pawn late in the game next Sunday.
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    Let’s make it more simple. Brady and Belly lost to a backup last year. They aren’t losing to Jared Goff this year. Brady and Belly worked their a$$es off to build their legacy and if they were lose to Foles and Goff in back to back big games, putting Brady and Belly at 5-4 in the big game, that ain’t looking great. They made Rivers look like a rookie and they beat Mahomes. Goff will be a pawn late in the game next Sunday.
     
    Trooper64
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 8:03 PM ET #17

    BB, An interesting perspective! Your stuff is always worth reading.

    I would add that your take adds credence to an under wager. NE Defense was embarrassed last year. Expect a much better effort from a squad used to the Super Bowl Stage.

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    BB, An interesting perspective! Your stuff is always worth reading.

    I would add that your take adds credence to an under wager. NE Defense was embarrassed last year. Expect a much better effort from a squad used to the Super Bowl Stage.

     
    Killer_B
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 8:10 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    And here we go:

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25863631/concern-nfl-4-officials-nfc-championship-game-live-southern-california

    Refs only did what they were told to do. I find it 99.9% impossible that the ref was standing at the pylon witnessing what everyone in the stadium and millions on tv saw and didn't throw the flag. The obvious answer is they wanted the Rams in the SB, no matter what... And I agree, the Rams know they shouldn't be in the game and if they win, their SB win is forever tainted... Is that what the NFL really wants? It's wrestling going forward if that happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    And here we go:

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25863631/concern-nfl-4-officials-nfc-championship-game-live-southern-california

    Refs only did what they were told to do. I find it 99.9% impossible that the ref was standing at the pylon witnessing what everyone in the stadium and millions on tv saw and didn't throw the flag. The obvious answer is they wanted the Rams in the SB, no matter what... And I agree, the Rams know they shouldn't be in the game and if they win, their SB win is forever tainted... Is that what the NFL really wants? It's wrestling going forward if that happens.
     
    ActionMagnet
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 8:14 PM ET #19

    Malcolm Butler he said LOLOL how did he do this past season? dude was a bum. BB knew what he was doing. Pats May win but your reasoning makes no sense.
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    Malcolm Butler he said LOLOL how did he do this past season? dude was a bum. BB knew what he was doing. Pats May win but your reasoning makes no sense.
     
    gutinstinctus
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 10:25 PM ET #20

    I don´t think it mattered as much. Time proved Bellichick right, Butler sucks. And the Eagles WR were not the key to their win. It was all about  the 3 running backs: Blount, Ajayi and Corey Clement who received 100+, and the Defensive Line constantly forcing Brady to pass under a lot of pressure 

    The real X factor that defined that game was the concussion of Brandin Cooks. With Cooks playing the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters, Phily´s secondary would have suffered twice as much. Edelman was out and Phily struggled even more than they did this season against WRs. 

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    I don´t think it mattered as much. Time proved Bellichick right, Butler sucks. And the Eagles WR were not the key to their win. It was all about  the 3 running backs: Blount, Ajayi and Corey Clement who received 100+, and the Defensive Line constantly forcing Brady to pass under a lot of pressure 

    The real X factor that defined that game was the concussion of Brandin Cooks. With Cooks playing the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters, Phily´s secondary would have suffered twice as much. Edelman was out and Phily struggled even more than they did this season against WRs. 

     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 10:54 PM ET #21

    Quote Originally Posted by gutinstinctus:

    I don´t think it mattered as much. Time proved Bellichick right, Butler sucks. And the Eagles WR were not the key to their win. It was all about  the 3 running backs: Blount, Ajayi and Corey Clement who received 100+, and the Defensive Line constantly forcing Brady to pass under a lot of pressure 

    The real X factor that defined that game was the concussion of Brandin Cooks. With Cooks playing the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters, Phily´s secondary would have suffered twice as much. Edelman was out and Phily struggled even more than they did this season against WRs. 


    I don't care what the real impact was. It's all about perception. The coach let his ego get in the way and undermined his team's chances (that is how the players saw it and everyone else playing Monday morning QB). This Sunday is redemption day for BB and his team. And goofy Goff will not deny them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutinstinctus:

    I don´t think it mattered as much. Time proved Bellichick right, Butler sucks. And the Eagles WR were not the key to their win. It was all about  the 3 running backs: Blount, Ajayi and Corey Clement who received 100+, and the Defensive Line constantly forcing Brady to pass under a lot of pressure 

    The real X factor that defined that game was the concussion of Brandin Cooks. With Cooks playing the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters, Phily´s secondary would have suffered twice as much. Edelman was out and Phily struggled even more than they did this season against WRs. 


    I don't care what the real impact was. It's all about perception. The coach let his ego get in the way and undermined his team's chances (that is how the players saw it and everyone else playing Monday morning QB). This Sunday is redemption day for BB and his team. And goofy Goff will not deny them. 
     
    ActionMagnet
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 11:27 PM ET #22

    It’s a redemption game for Brandin Cooks whom NE gave up on.

    The tuck rule ignited Pats dynasty in SB vs the Rams. Young unproven QB against proven champion and veteran QB.

    Now it’s the Rams who some say should’nt be in the SB who have a chance at redemption vs the Pats. Young unproven QB against proven and champion veteran QB.

    A lot of redemption angles here and similarities.
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    It’s a redemption game for Brandin Cooks whom NE gave up on.

    The tuck rule ignited Pats dynasty in SB vs the Rams. Young unproven QB against proven champion and veteran QB.

    Now it’s the Rams who some say should’nt be in the SB who have a chance at redemption vs the Pats. Young unproven QB against proven and champion veteran QB.

    A lot of redemption angles here and similarities.
     
    Wiseplayer1
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    Posted: Jan. 27, 2019 - 11:44 PM ET #23

    Hightower was a bigger missing piece than Butler
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    Hightower was a bigger missing piece than Butler
     
    RagnarLothbrok
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    Posted: Jan. 28, 2019 - 12:44 AM ET #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseplayer1:

    Hightower was a bigger missing piece than Butler

    100% this. Butler and the Titan's coach also showed the entire league a formula to beat the Patriots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseplayer1:

    Hightower was a bigger missing piece than Butler

    100% this. Butler and the Titan's coach also showed the entire league a formula to beat the Patriots.

     
     
    tootskie
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    Posted: Jan. 31, 2019 - 6:56 AM ET #25

    Did Malcom Bultler rank last this year out of every DB?

    150/150 or something in that neighbourhood. 
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    Did Malcom Bultler rank last this year out of every DB?

    150/150 or something in that neighbourhood. 
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