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Posted: #1
..are starting to impress me. Yes I know it's pre-season, and I don't take a serious look at any results, but:

Winston looks confident in the pocket, makes good decisions, believes in his athletic ability (movement, arm strength).

Dirk Koetter and Winston seem to have a good relationship.

I can see good team chemistry.

Doug Martin looks like a completely new guy. Way more athletic.

Their defensive line looks very good with the addition of Henry Melton.

Their offensive line is an issue and will need a lot of time, but Donovan Smith doesn't look bad in pass blocking and along with Winston's ability to move in the pocket they don't necessarily have a bad matchup against a few defensive lines.


Your opinions? And please, don't tell me that Jameis Winston threw 18 interceptions last season. Matt Ryan threw 19 interceptions in his last season at Boston College and we know how much worth this information is.
 
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Posted: #2
Doug Martin looks reinvigorated.
 
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Posted: #3

I am, and have always been a Winston fan. He is big, strong arm and as 'football smart' as any rookie you will ever find. Also his biggest attribute is that he is a winner. He obviously made some dumb off the field decisions, but who hasn't as an 18 year old. Also know that Mike Evans can be one of the top receivers in the NFL.

I think there will be some growing pains are a rookie for Winston, but his overall rookie year will be an overwhelming success. Their schedule is a bit on the tougher side but it would not shock me if they ended up right around 8-8. Gun to my head I would say 6-10 for the Bucs with Winston growing as the season goes on.

 
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Posted: #4
Doug martin is playing for a contract and it shows.

Gerald McCoy is one of the best 3 techniques in the league. Like Lavonte David at LB, he should have lots of room to roam.

One take I got from the monday night game summa, the Bengals seem to have NOT addressed their pass rush problems. Winston tore them apart w/ minimal pressure. It will be a test for him to see how he does w/ guys in his face.
The bucs seem like a team that can only go up, how much is yet to be seen. That division in general wants to crawl out of the bottom.
Personally I am big on the saints this yr.

BOL and as always, great threads man
 
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Posted: #5
Last year the Bucs underperformed their talent level by a wide margin.
I am one of those guys who believe that ... 'you are what your record says' ... in the case of TB, they are the most talented 2-14 team ever.

The defense had a few very talented players last year.
Leslie Frazier was the TB first year D-coordinator, to say it took the D players time to adjust to his schemes would be an understatement. 
In the Bucs first 6 games they had the worst Points Against, and the worst Net Yards Against in the entire NFL.
Over their last 10 games, they were 14th in both categories.

In the off-season TB signed 6 F.A.'s for the defensive side of the ball, and all of them will be big contributors this year.
Henry Melton - DT
Bruce Carter - LB
Sterling Moore - CB
George Johnson - DE
Chris Conte - S
Larry Dean - LB
They also drafted LBer Kwon Alexander in the 4th round.

As for the offense, I believe that TB will not want to have Winston slinging 40 passes per game, so expect a lot from the Muscle Hamster (great nickname!). 
I'm not really sure why Martin has fallen off so much since his rookie year (O-Line is some of it) but judging by all reports from OTA's and Camp, plus seeing him last night ... he is definitely back to form.

Their O-line stunk last year, and they have addressed this through the draft. 2nd round pick Smith is expected to start at LT, and he looks to be up to the task thus far. 3rd round pick Marpit is playing with the 2's at RG (he is a project, having been drafted from a D3 program.) 
It would help if Logan Menkins returned to his pro-bowl level of play.

Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans make up a formidable pair of WRs, but depth here may become a problem should one of them miss time with an injury.

Looking at the roster, I'd say they have enough talent to win their division, but there are 2 extremely prominent wildcards in play ...
1) Winston. This kid has the physical talent to play QB, and enough swagger and moxie to deal with any pressure or situation that may arise. My only question is ... how quickly can he read an NFL defense?
His entire career he has had a strong enough arm to allow him to sit there and let things develop in front of him. The NFL does not afford anyone that luxury. It is a timing league, and the ball either comes out on time, or it gets picked or batted down.

2) Lovie Smith. The players like playing for him ... other than that I personally don't think he is a very good coach. Not saying I think he is the second coming of Rich Kotite, but no one can argue that he is at best 'average'.

IMO, The Bucs very well may be undervalued by the oddsmakers, and the public, in the early part of the season.




bigreds daddy
 
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Posted: #6
Quote Originally Posted by undermysac:

Doug martin is playing for a contract and it shows.

Gerald McCoy is one of the best 3 techniques in the league. Like Lavonte David at LB, he should have lots of room to roam.

One take I got from the monday night game summa, the Bengals seem to have NOT addressed their pass rush problems. Winston tore them apart w/ minimal pressure. It will be a test for him to see how he does w/ guys in his face.
The bucs seem like a team that can only go up, how much is yet to be seen. That division in general wants to crawl out of the bottom.
Personally I am big on the saints this yr.

BOL and as always, great threads man

I agree with your comment - good stuff.  

Just a couple of injuries to mention in regards to the bold..
The Bengals were missing two defensive starters:  DE Michael Johnson and OLB Vontaze Burfict.  Johnson has a sprained MCL and is expected to play the first week.  Burfict has been rehabbing from microfracture surgery, and might return this week.  I haven't heard an update.

 
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Posted: #8
NICE THREAD SUUMA
 
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Posted: #9
NICE THREAD SUUMA
 
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NICE THREAD SUUMA
 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by undermysac:

Doug martin is playing for a contract and it shows.

Gerald McCoy is one of the best 3 techniques in the league. Like Lavonte David at LB, he should have lots of room to roam.

One take I got from the monday night game summa, the Bengals seem to have NOT addressed their pass rush problems. Winston tore them apart w/ minimal pressure. It will be a test for him to see how he does w/ guys in his face.
The bucs seem like a team that can only go up, how much is yet to be seen. That division in general wants to crawl out of the bottom.
Personally I am big on the saints this yr.

BOL and as always, great threads man

Undermysac, good stuff. Regarding the Cincy pass rush, I want to say the same like Slick did. The Bengals wil get DE Michael Johnson (boost for the pass rush) who was a beast for the Bengals in 2013 and weakside linebacker Vincent Burfict back. Burfict is a very good covering LB, and a solid pass rusher for a weakside linebacker. He was graded as the 4th-best coverage OLB by PFF in 2013. His presence allows the Bengals to send more blitzes than they did in 2014. In 2014, their LBs combined for just 184 pass rush snaps compared to 314 in 2013. Emmanual Lamur will benefit from Michael Johnson’s workload on the right side.

 
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Posted: #12
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:

Last year the Bucs underperformed their talent level by a wide margin.
I am one of those guys who believe that ... 'you are what your record says' ... in the case of TB, they are the most talented 2-14 team ever.

The defense had a few very talented players last year.
Leslie Frazier was the TB first year D-coordinator, to say it took the D players time to adjust to his schemes would be an understatement. 
In the Bucs first 6 games they had the worst Points Against, and the worst Net Yards Against in the entire NFL.
Over their last 10 games, they were 14th in both categories.

In the off-season TB signed 6 F.A.'s for the defensive side of the ball, and all of them will be big contributors this year.
Henry Melton - DT
Bruce Carter - LB
Sterling Moore - CB
George Johnson - DE
Chris Conte - S
Larry Dean - LB
They also drafted LBer Kwon Alexander in the 4th round.

As for the offense, I believe that TB will not want to have Winston slinging 40 passes per game, so expect a lot from the Muscle Hamster (great nickname!). 
I'm not really sure why Martin has fallen off so much since his rookie year (O-Line is some of it) but judging by all reports from OTA's and Camp, plus seeing him last night ... he is definitely back to form.

Their O-line stunk last year, and they have addressed this through the draft. 2nd round pick Smith is expected to start at LT, and he looks to be up to the task thus far. 3rd round pick Marpit is playing with the 2's at RG (he is a project, having been drafted from a D3 program.) 
It would help if Logan Menkins returned to his pro-bowl level of play.

Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans make up a formidable pair of WRs, but depth here may become a problem should one of them miss time with an injury.

Looking at the roster, I'd say they have enough talent to win their division, but there are 2 extremely prominent wildcards in play ...
1) Winston. This kid has the physical talent to play QB, and enough swagger and moxie to deal with any pressure or situation that may arise. My only question is ... how quickly can he read an NFL defense?
His entire career he has had a strong enough arm to allow him to sit there and let things develop in front of him. The NFL does not afford anyone that luxury. It is a timing league, and the ball either comes out on time, or it gets picked or batted down.

2) Lovie Smith. The players like playing for him ... other than that I personally don't think he is a very good coach. Not saying I think he is the second coming of Rich Kotite, but no one can argue that he is at best 'average'.

IMO, The Bucs very well may be undervalued by the oddsmakers, and the public, in the early part of the season.





Great post.

 

I am very high on Sterling Moore, D.J. Swearinger and Henry Melton. Kwon Alexander saw the most snaps this pre-season, flashed in training camp and it seems like he will be their starting MLB in week one.

 

Not so high on Chris Conte and Bruce Carter though.


 
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Posted: #13
Hey suuma, are you going to post futures and long term bets on that forum before week 1 ?
 
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Posted: #14
Hey powerbalance. Yes, I will. Usually I don’t like future bets because your money is away from you for more than four months and one significant injury can burn you but there are a few I am eyeing. Will wait until the last pre-season snap is played.
 
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Posted: #15
nothing up front, the O-line needs work, look for Winston to come out of the pocket the majority of time, his play is patterned like early Michael Vick; the Bucks have huge holes to fill on Defense with many new additions fighting for a spot on the starting rotation. They have 4 WINS on their schedule, max (4-12) this team needs a lot, and are light years away from capturing a playoff spot with their present day roster, the only bright spot on the whole team is Lovie Smith, he'll eventually get it done, but it won't be this year, and James Winston; he has a loooong learning proccess, (as Peyton Manning stated " it took me 4 years before I could even think about a defensive 'read') rookie QB's don't read defenses, that's what a coaching staff is for when starting rookies, on the other hand, there is the possibility that Winston may sit, we'll know in three weeks
 
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Posted: #16
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:

Last year the Bucs underperformed their talent level by a wide margin.
I am one of those guys who believe that ... 'you are what your record says' ... in the case of TB, they are the most talented 2-14 team ever.

The defense had a few very talented players last year.
Leslie Frazier was the TB first year D-coordinator, to say it took the D players time to adjust to his schemes would be an understatement. 
In the Bucs first 6 games they had the worst Points Against, and the worst Net Yards Against in the entire NFL.
Over their last 10 games, they were 14th in both categories.

In the off-season TB signed 6 F.A.'s for the defensive side of the ball, and all of them will be big contributors this year.
Henry Melton - DT
Bruce Carter - LB
Sterling Moore - CB
George Johnson - DE
Chris Conte - S
Larry Dean - LB
They also drafted LBer Kwon Alexander in the 4th round.

As for the offense, I believe that TB will not want to have Winston slinging 40 passes per game, so expect a lot from the Muscle Hamster (great nickname!). 
I'm not really sure why Martin has fallen off so much since his rookie year (O-Line is some of it) but judging by all reports from OTA's and Camp, plus seeing him last night ... he is definitely back to form.

Their O-line stunk last year, and they have addressed this through the draft. 2nd round pick Smith is expected to start at LT, and he looks to be up to the task thus far. 3rd round pick Marpit is playing with the 2's at RG (he is a project, having been drafted from a D3 program.) 
It would help if Logan Menkins returned to his pro-bowl level of play.

Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans make up a formidable pair of WRs, but depth here may become a problem should one of them miss time with an injury.

Looking at the roster, I'd say they have enough talent to win their division, but there are 2 extremely prominent wildcards in play ...
1) Winston. This kid has the physical talent to play QB, and enough swagger and moxie to deal with any pressure or situation that may arise. My only question is ... how quickly can he read an NFL defense?
His entire career he has had a strong enough arm to allow him to sit there and let things develop in front of him. The NFL does not afford anyone that luxury. It is a timing league, and the ball either comes out on time, or it gets picked or batted down.

2) Lovie Smith. The players like playing for him ... other than that I personally don't think he is a very good coach. Not saying I think he is the second coming of Rich Kotite, but no one can argue that he is at best 'average'.

IMO, The Bucs very well may be undervalued by the oddsmakers, and the public, in the early part of the season.




what do you see that no one else does? The most talented 2-14 team in the NFL? (abstract) capable of winning their division? Lovie Smith is an average coach at best? 8-8? sure... your whims are well said but have no relation to the realities of the Bucs 2015 season, watch a few more pre-season games, by then you'll have Winston starting as QB in the Pro Bowl
 
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Posted: #17
Quote Originally Posted by sports_Network:

what do you see that no one else does? The most talented 2-14 team in the NFL? (abstract) capable of winning their division? Lovie Smith is an average coach at best? 8-8? sure... your whims are well said but have no relation to the realities of the Bucs 2015 season, watch a few more pre-season games, by then you'll have Winston starting as QB in the Pro Bowl

As is the case with all 'forward looking statements', they include opinions. Everything you wrote in this thread is your opinion.

Now for some facts ...
Lovie Smith, who you claim to be the "only bright spot on the whole team" (your opinion) has had the following defensive rankings as a HC ...
2004 defensive ranking 21st
2005 defensive ranking 2nd
2006 5th
2007 28th
2008 21st
2009 17th
2010 9th
2011 17th
2012 5th
2014 25th
If you were to avg out those numbers, you get an avg ranking of 16.4.
That would be the epitome of avg, and that is Lovie's strong suit as a coach.
His teams offensive numbers? I won't type them out, but they are laughably bad.

So instead of only making forward-looking statements, which are in part based upon opinions of which you and I disagree, I have now added some rear-looking stats, based upon facts. Those facts seem to suggest that my opinion of Lovie is more accurate than yours.

No big deal ... varying opinions make for good discussion 
bigreds daddy
 
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Posted: #18
Quote Originally Posted by suuma:


Great post.

 

I am very high on Sterling Moore, D.J. Swearinger and Henry Melton. Kwon Alexander saw the most snaps this pre-season, flashed in training camp and it seems like he will be their starting MLB in week one.

 

Not so high on Chris Conte and Bruce Carter though.



I'm also not a big fan of Conte, but he may still be an upgrade over what they had last year.
I've seen every snap of Bruce Carters career. He has the physical tools to be a perennial All-Pro. The Cowboys wanted to keep him, but cap restraints made that very difficult.
Carters weakness is between his ears. He is prone to making bad reads/decisions. If he ever gets into a system where he is allowed to attack more, with less 'read-react', he will be very good. Keep an eye on him, he absolutely has a chance to be a difference maker.
bigreds daddy
 
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Posted: #19

Lovie Smith is 86-80 with 6 playoff appearances, and one division Championship. these are the facts, hardly 'my opinion' by which justify a better than average NFL HC posting defensive rankings has no merit to his winning % or his team making the playoffs 6 times; a bright spot, I don't see any other way to describe his presence in the Bucs locker room, However the remainder of your assessment I agree with. enjoy the upcoming NFL season may you prosper....

 
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Posted: #20
D. Martin looked really good, I think having Vjax and Evans is incredible value for a rookie QB, their D should improve, love is good at what he does on that side of the ball. Might be a sneaky team this year.
 
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Posted: #21
They do look improved and might sneak up on people early on.
 
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Posted: #22
Nice post.. Well covered
 
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Posted: #23
There Defense will be the key this year. They have some great players on D that need to step it up, i think Winston can win. Can see them being a surprise sneak in wild card team. Absolutly.
 
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Posted: #24
A questionable offensive line and a rookie quarterback?  I don't see them winning more than 7, and they should consider that a pretty good year after how they were last year.  I see their rookie quarterback having some bright moments, but turning it over a ton.....not uncommon for even HOF qbs to do that their first year.

Can't see them being better than:

1)  Seahawks
2)  Cowboys
3)  Eagles
4)  Packers
5)  Lions
6)  Vikings 
7)  Saints
8)  Panthers
9)  Cardinals

The remaining teams in the conference are:  Falcons, 49ers, Bears, Rams, Giants, I see them them in this group.

Teams tend to bounce from a terrible year upwards, so they should win more than they won last year....but I don't have a high opinion of Frazier as their D coordinator and Smith's past teams on defense had a lot of star power that I don't see in the Bucs.  Good coaches can produce  stars out of players though, so maybe Smith and co. will with the Bucs.

It's the preseason, it's the time to be optimistic, I'm more optimistic for other teams this year more than Tampa Bay.
 
 
 
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Posted: #25
I also don't see them as an 8-8 team. Many things would have come together. I can see 4-7 wins and would side with earthwake at 6-10 if I had to bet it. Their offensive line has too many bad matchups.
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