Beware of Full Tilt.

yes wizard, ive heard the same thing myself. bow down to this god of rigged up online poker! LOL LOL

SIGH, now every pro poker player in the world is sponsored by a site. For the record, NO I dont expect Howard lederer to come out and say fulltilt is rigged, if it reslly were.

 

The point is this. We have all these professional players in the world, live and online, and NONE of them are "out to get" the internet or "expose it." Plus there are thousands of people who have programs who track their hands and results over literally millions of hands and all these guys have found nothing out of the ordinary. Yet you microstakes part-timne amatuer players act as if youve uncovered this conspiracy cuz you took a beat and lost your $50 deposit, its just such hogwash.

 

When i first started i thought the same thing. You think you know what youre doing and when you take a beat and never seem to recover you begin to think the worlds against you. It wasnt until i started keeping track of my all-ins to see if the hands were actually holding as often as they should. And you know what, after a few hundred hands (which isnt even really close to a sample size anyways) everything was totally in line. So i began to work on my game and started to realize that poker is a grind, your edge isnt that big, shits gonna happen and you just gotta move past it. Its not "oh the site is fucking me"

Also ive been playin online for a living now for almost 2 years. i think i know what im talking about. Then you guys come on here with your 10-50 hours of online experience (which is like getting 4ABs in a MLB career) and telling me "how it is." Just gets real old to hear unqualified people make such irresponsible, uneducated, and flat out WRONG statement with such conviction. But hey, its much easier to blame something else for your losing than look in the mirror, its the american way.

 

GL at the tables gents

ummmm not to burst your bubble...but did it ever occur to you that the pros OWN the sites...every site is owned by a team of pros in  a partnership...obviously you failed to find this information...remember serveral years ago...the big online poker scam involving absolute poker and UB....or how about a couple years ago...when bodog rigged the bodog series of poker...all of those event happened...are documented..and true...iam not saying that these people are correct in saying that online poker is rigged...however ingnoring these "VERY PUBLIC" FACTS...yes FACTS!!!...along with other minor scams involving fired programmers along the line back in the day...you'd have to be plain ignorant to say this isnt possible when it has already happened.....

and by the way..2 years is not a long time to be playing online..so dont speak as if 2 years experienced makes you qualified in anyway that you know what goes on in the online poker community

Amazing that these big name pros don't say it's rigged!  When was the last time you saw one of them without a shirt or hat on that had no logo for an online site?

LMFAO! 

ok guys welll what about the thousands of people who track millions of hands online. All these people havent found anything out of the ordinary. All these peope are covering up the "scam" too?? All of them?? The sites are paying every tom, dick, and harry with PokerTracker to keep their mouths shut??? Just ridiculous

 

Was the Ub/Absolute scandal awful? Ansolutely

Was that the site "rigging" hands? Absolutely not

Has anyone on this board ever been "rigged" out of their money? NO FUCKING WAY

 

But you see 60 minutes and say "I knew I was good, the site fucked me!!!!"

 

 

The PokerTracker program is really the end of the argument. All these people tracking all these millions of hands have foung NOTHING. Explain that? Please dont keep avoiding it and putting words in my mouth or changing the story like you have been>

 

WHY HAVE NONE OF THESE PEOPLE FOUND ANYTHING ODD?

 

WHY ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE SAYING ITS RIGGED ARE FRIDAY NIGHT MICROSTAKES PLAYERS?

 

ARE YOU REALLY SAYING "EVERY HIGHSTAKES PRO" IS BEING PAID OFF BY A SITE TO KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT? EVERY SINGLE ONE? REALLY?

 

Also, what is my motive on here for saying its not rigged?

You guys cant really think I work for FullTilt like that fuckwas SOBLATANT says? I mean really guys cmon, stop with the garbage.

Try keeping track of how often your hands hold like I did and you'll see its all legit. Its just you remember the beats more than the wins, its human nature.

 

You guys are obviously gonna believe what you want. Like I said, its much easier to just say you got screwed than to work on your game. My experience online (which dwarfs any of your guys experience) has proven that its not rigged. If thats just not good enough and you guys would rather take "the once-a-month" players word for it then so be it. You wouldnt take a bystanders word over an auto mechanic about your car, yet you'll take an absolute amateur's word over mine in this topic. Just brilliant

 

GL guys

actually poker stars is the only site with a 3rd party checking the random dealing...NO OTHER SITE DOES THIS..even the 3rd party is questioning the reason why other sites dont perform this task..and they advise to stay away from them...you really need to do your research on this...people are here for a real reason talking about this...not just blowin smoke everywhere....and in reguards to the bodog scam...yes sites have rigged big tourny for THEIR PROS to win...check the results and you'll see....and if you dont think setting up hands to create big rakes on ALL LEVELS hasnt happened...then your foolish....and i HIGHLY doubt the people on 60 mins would run a piece if there is was no foundation to this...and yes people have been cheated outta their money...the UB/absolute scam still has people that werent refunded cheated losses 

 

 

 

 

WHy cant you answer my question about the thousands of people using PokerTracker with databases of millions of hands? Really, why do you keep dodging that question?

 

Also, why do you perceive your statements as FACT? Cuz you said it? Cuz you "heard" somewhere from "someone" that thats whats going on??

 

Ive said it before, the Ub/Absolute thing was awful. But was that the site rigging hands? NO.

 

The real question I have is this :

 

DO YOU GUYS HONESTLY FEEL YOU WERE CHEATED OUT OF YOUR $50 DEPOSIT BY THE SITE? Just answer that for me, and about the PokerTracker stats.

 

Also, Why am I winning then? Is the site "rigged" for ChanceP? I mean, really, WHY am I not getting fucked by the site but all you guys are? WHY?

 

 

i dont feel cheated

lol i dont feel cheated cuz i never "lost" money to a poker site...lol..and no..pokertracker is not the answer to the question...tho you seem to think its the answer to every question...people that run this shit are a lot smarter then you think..and much much smarter then you =) lol...so dont think that YOU have it all figured out and you know for a fact that shady shit doesnt happen...lemme guess...the mafia wasnt real and watergate never happened....LMFAO

obviously you dont know the definition of the word FACT....lol...FACTS are those things that were proven...you know..stuff that is all over the news and offically documented...wow your fucking stupid..lol...i really feel bad you dude......HELLO....EARTH...HAVE WE MET?!?!?!    agains LMFAO

ChanceP, whether you want to grasp it or not, you come across as an arrogant imbecile every time you post.  You claim with NO uncertainty that there is NO possibility of malicious activity or manipulation by the poker sites, and that your experience with PokerTracker ends all discussion. 

Just because you are a winning player does not mean that your theories are even remotely accurate.  I think the poker sites have the potential to rig their games, but neither of us KNOWS whether or not they do.

You obviously think the sites are fair and have no reason to cheat, and that is fine.  But I am a WINNING (albeit small) poker player who questions the validity of software at times.  I think it COULD be rigged based on my playing experiences and thorough research on the matter.  I just don't have all the answers and neither do you. 

Just quit claiming your matter-of-fact bullshit that anyone that complains is a LOSING player, because once again, that lame argument does not apply to me.  Any time owners of poker sites are making large amounts of money, the potential for greed, corruption, and manipulation is a very real and likely possibility at any point.   

Why are datbases that contain millions of hands and show nothing out of the ordinary not an answer to the question but your "story" about pokerstars is? Whatever dude

 

Yes shit happens. People cheat, people collude, shit happens. But all the guys here are acting as if thats the reason theyre not winning online and thats total horseshit. The sites arent rigged so seat #4 sucks out on you like all of you claim. You can play the same "legit" poker online as you can live. There are cheating and colluders and garbage live too but noone talks about that. Yet something happens online and every site everywhere is rigged and anybody winning is cheating, its just lame.

 

I come across as arrogant because you guys dont have nearly the online experience I have yet you wanna tell mw "how it is." Seriously if you dont respect my opinion go email Daniel Negreanu or Hellmuth or someone and ask them how they feel and I guarantee they say the same thing I do. But you never will cuz you guys have your minds made up already. Strange have happened and will from time to time no matter what but to say you cant win $ online or the "cash out curses" and "new player card rushes" are just all bullshit, period. Come up with all the bogus views and :"facts" you want.

 

Plus then when some of you guys do send me hand hostories youre playing so AWFUL you have no grounds to complain about anything.

 

I really dont understand how you can throw out the pokertracker argument. Thousands of people with millions of hands researched means nothing to you but you "hearing" that pokerstars had a study done is proof, youre ridiculous.

 

Keep blaming the sites and screaming rigged guys. I'll keep winning.

 

P.S. - If any of you guys honestly would like to send me hand histories I am more than willing to review them. I used t6o think it was rigged too till I just worked harder on my game. Watching the WSOP on TV doesnt make you a player guys.

 

Ya Im an asshole a lot about this but how would you feel if a total amatuer walked in into your job/profession and started telling you how it was, and almost everything they said was either wrong or severely exaggerated. It gets old dude. How do I keep winning online?

 

GL

Thats pretty much it for me guys. Anyone wants to improve your game PM me and I'll be glad to help.

 

Any rigged guys wanna make ridiculous claims with no statistical proof Im not gonna waste my time anymore. If you wont listen to a guy who does it for a living online then theres no helping you.

 

GL

like i said befor... not that this is the case now...but it has happened and iam sure it will again...yes poker is a mean game..not for the weak minded...and yes...generally people do play like shit...anyone who is a chris moneymaker fan would fall into this cata..lol...especially if you take your playing tips and style from him...but dude...2 years isnt really a foundation to say..."iam experienced"....ive been playing onlline for 5 years..and i still dont consider myself as "experienced" cuz its not a long time in the game of poker...compared to REAL veterans of poker....so understand that your still very far from experienced

[Quote: Originally Posted by ChanceP]

 

 ive been playin online for a living now for almost 2 years.

you are so full of shit its unreal. if somebody wants to hear the truth about these poker sites ask me, ive played on them for 8 years.

VERY well put....this is the real world..were people arent nice like mommy and daddy told you they'd be...people do dirty dirty dirty shit...to others and ones they love...in this day and age with the technology available ANYTHING is possible

 

Ive been playing for a living for 2 years so that means I only have 2 years of experience? Really? So I just started playing for a living from Day 1?? Oh OK pal whatever you say

 

Ive been playing for probably about 5-6 years also. I'm not afraid to admit I came with moneymaker boom. For the first year or two I lost my ass and blamed the sites cuz I thought "hey I watch every WSOP on TV, Im good man!"

 

Also, do you realize that 2 years online Ive seen more hands than about 15 years live? Do you realize that? probably not. Do you know Doyle Brunson has said Tom Dwan (mid 20s) has played more hands than him? Did you know that? didnt think so.

So for you to say I cant speak from experience is ridiculous. Then in the same breath you talk abbout "how it is." Well if Im not experienced enough to make these statements then you sure as hell arent qualified to make your statements either?? Get it?? Probably not

 

Anyways, I was finished but I had to come correct you, again, when you said I dont have the experience to talk about this. Really I feel YOU need to get some experience and once you do you'll be able to form a more educated opinion, other than just what your friends and 60 minutes tell you.

 

Its obvious were never gonna agree and thats fine. I'll keep making my living online and thinking youre wrong and you keep doing what your doing thinking youre right. Life goes on.

 

Just do me one favor plz plz plz plz. If you EVER get a chance to talk to someone you believe is a "professional poker player" (since my opinion is obv worthless) please ask him about the online game and tell him the exact same things you told me. Or better yet go to 2+2dotcom (the nest poker forum on the planet) and express your views. You'll get torn to shreds. Seriously, I encourage you to do so. My screenname there is RIVERH8SME. Come show us all how much you know, LOL

 

GL

lol its funny you spit out numbers as if they prove anything...how do you know you played 15 years worth of live poker in the span of two years online...id love to know how you get a  number of hands one has to play to be a years worth of live play..lololol....or did some fairy come outta the sky with the magic number of hands people play in a year...i didnt know there was a number thats says...ok...you reached x yrs experience....lol 

further more 2 years experience in online is 2 years experience...not 15 yrs...cuz if it was 15 years...then the number would be 15..not 2..lol..so lets keep the number values the same...otherwise your just gonna confuse yourself...its cool tho..your welcome

SIGH, dude your ignorance on this topic is shining brightly.

 

Youre trying to have a debate about online poker and you dont even know that you can get more experience faster online than live? You dont know you see about 7 times as many hands per hour online as live??? You really dont know this??? Yet you wanna challenge me on these topics?? Unreal

 

Experience is the only way to get better. Seeing as many hands as you can. If I go play LIVE for 5 hours Im probably only gonna see about 150 hands. Online in 5 hours I'll see about 750 hands. About 5 times the hands in the same time frame, and thats if Im only playing 1 table online. Play two tables at a time and I'll see 1500 hands??? If I go to a casino and play a big tournament theres only 1 that day I can play. Online I can play 40 in a day if I want. Are you really saying that we have the same experience you playing one tourney live and me playing 40 online? really? You would feel you had just as much "experience" in your one tourney as my 40?? really?

 

Youve never heard Doyle or the "old timer" pros say the game is getting so hard now cuz kids can learn so much faster now cuz they can get 10 years worth of experience in a year? Doyle said it, not me. Are you now saying DOYLE BRUNSON doesnt know what he's talking about?? But you do??? LOLOLOL

Really dude just stop. Youre a part time player with a grudge against online cuz you dont fully understand poker and youre trying to take me on in a battle you just cant win and now youre just totally "reaching." If you try and argue this point youre basically saying Doyle Brunson doesnt know what he's talking about and Id love to hear you say that lol.

 

This is finally it for me on this one. I cant argue with someone about online poker who doesnt even know the most common things. Just plz like I said if you ever encounter a "pro" in your life please bounce all your views off him as you have me here. Id love to see the look on his face. GL sir

lolol...you obviously didnt understand what i said..and since you just keep repeating yourself i just accept the fact that you never will understand...guess ron white is right...you cant fix stupid

Here is the deal that most morons do not realize. People like ChanceP think "Online Poker can't be rigged! It's a computer that is doing all of the work, so it is surely legit."  Morons don't realize that it is indeed PEOPLE who write the programs that these computers run. "The BCS can't be wrong. It's a computer!" Well, PEOPLE wrote that formula and they wrote the program that is Full Tilt, Pokerstars etc. As a person with a computer science degree, please explain to me how you are going to write a program that picks cards 100% randomly. Tell me the logic that will create that program. I believe the closest you can get is to have a predetermined hand, factor in # of players and go from there. That means the odds will not hold up. The other thing is that you are saying you have 100% faith in the human population to think that online poker is not somehow rigged. When these sites make their money based on the number of pots played and how much money is in those pots, it only makes sense to keep that money shuffling around and have crazy cards come up on turns and rivers when two big stacks are going head to head (making the pot bigger). So I KNOW it's set up to run a certain way, but I don't know to what degree. An honest dealer with a stack of cards is honest / not rigged, and there is no computer program that will ever match that. On top of that, it's a business. A business that is being driven on keeping the number of players playing as high as it can be, the number of pots as high as they can be and the money in those pots as high as it can be. For me to sit down and dominate players and get up at least 5x the amount that I started out with and keep playing the same players (with the exception of one or two dropping in here or there) an all of the sudden have numerous unbelievable beats within a span of 45 minutes or so.....AND have this happen multiple times...I will not believe there isn't some factor programmed in there to shake things up. Yes, I calculate odds, I count outs and do the math to understand where my percentages are at, I study the players and their trends, I play position, I usually run a very tight game and aggressive for me is seeing maybe 30% of the flops over a period of time, of course it all depends on my situation etc. etc.  So yeah, I hop on the lower limit tables and play donks. Maybe I'll be up $30 in an hour or sometimes up $100.00 on just one table of .50/1.00. It's easy to me. But then I see the constant bullshit that goes on and started paying attention more and more and noticed the 1 player that will swipe in on the table when I'm up 3x or 5x what I started with and River me numerous times, especially on big pots and it's basically back to square one. THIS HAS HAPPENED MULTIPLE TIMES. And to me, that's fishy as hell. "Why would they care or do that to lower limit players?!" I see that question asked on here. Why not lower limit players?! Chances are most of them don't have a freaking clue as to whether or not it was happening to them. Jesus Christ. Most of the players on those tables are idiots, so when bullshit like this happens, they will think "Well that's just unlucky." and wait for their next welfare check. Higher stake players are (or should be) more in tune to what SHOULD happen at the table. To get rivered with draws, flushes and flush draws one time after another after another after another.....it's not right. What are the odds? And what are the odds it happens that many times within 45 minutes?

Last thing: I always see ChanceP swoop in here and call people names and tell them they are horrible players etc. etc. Please come sit at a ring game with me ChanceP on Full Tilt and show me how to achieve greatness. I'm sure I can't afford your stakes, due to recent health issues (including a stem cell transplant), but that means you should be able to afford  my small stakes. Let me know when you're on FTP so I can watch you play AND play against you in a 9 person ring game. Odds should still be in your favor, as I quite honestly don't have money to burn at this point in my life, som you should be able to throw cash out there and see many more flops and bully me around, however, you say you're the best and I'd sure like to see. If nothing else, I guess I could learn from your greatness.

Chance, I play a lot (or at least a fair amount online), and I believe there is something going on there, whether rigged or setup, I don't know.  I play mostly guarantees and in the last week I have been bounced out of 75% of the tournys when I was a 75% favorite.  I have bubbled so many tournys to 3 outers, it makes me sick.  This last week has been a joke.  I have seen the good online players and you know what they run well, many amazing.  I sometimes wonder if they have some kind of program that aids them, again I don't know.  Of course I can't prove anything but i have seen enough online and played enough to think there is something that is not right.  I still play and will continue to play hoping that getting in with the best will hold.  I know you are going to claim I am a losing player but look at my stats first: Imanthegreatxii

 Ball_Picker, you can separate your paragraphs by hitting 'ENTER" on your keypad.  It only sends your post when you hit the SUBMIT option from Covers.  By the way, it took me awhile to figure this out.

Now with that minor detail out of the way, you made some EXCELLENT points.  As you and any computer programmer will state, the software CANNOT be 100% random.  And ChanceP thinks his theories are absolute since he is a winning online player.  I hope after reading multiple posts from winning players, that he will open up his eyes someday to the possibility of flawed or rigged software.

I'm guessing ChanceP is between 20-25 years old since he has such a naive, optomistic view of online poker and is usually incapable of properly addressing intelligent, dissenting opinion. Just because someone wins regularly does not mean that greed and corruption are not occuring.  We just don't have the answers, and neither does ChanceP. 

Ball_Picker, once again, thanks for sharing a lot of valuable insight into online poker. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

like i said ...you cant fix stupid...and to be honest...you kinda have to be stupid to think that nothing is going on...at least at a small scale...its no different then trusting a stranger with you credit card...or ssn...lol...i just find it funny how he tends to sweep scams that have OBVIOUSLY happened, under the carpet....then trys to throw out numbers that are suppose to say he has "X" amount of yrs in live play, cuz he plays 4756383 million hands a month online..lololol...its just comical....the number of hands dont make up the years of experience you have..bottom line...if you have 2 years...guess what buddy...its 2 yrs...not 4...12...19..66...130...no..its 2 fu(kin years and thats it..LMFAO

case closed..lol