pocket johnnys/hooks

whatever you want to call them.  i think they are the most a pocket pair i have played that were doomed from the start.  i really have no luck when it comes to pocket JJ

 

ok this is a 5-5 game, 300- 800 buy in and the avg stack is big, i mean like over 10, a few around 15, one guy who ill refer to as The Greek had about 28/29 as chip leader.  believe it or not alot of these guys are playing loose, i mean real loose.  heres the hand that sent me packin, im big blind sitting on JJ limpers around a full table 2 fold so 8 in the hand, comes to me i make it 45 to go.  caller one (the russian) calls and is a strait/flush chaser and if he had pockets he wouldn't limp.  another caller(new guy just sat) calls, then the greek who large stack just calls...he has to at that point with 3 in the hand.  flop comes 6 3 4 two spades.  the greek checks to me, i go all in for 165 more.  sure enough the russian calls me(draw) and the new kid that just sat couldn't get his money in fast enough...but now the greek folds and really hes the only one i wanted to play.  turn is 9, river is 10....no more spades but i knew i had to be beat.  sure enough the russian had A6 spades on nut flush draw w/ top pair on flop.  new guy just sat turns over the 2 5 offsuit strait and i just muck my JJ's and call it a night.  after the three calls i really wanted the triple up, but knew the loose table someone had to have garbage, 2 5 or 5 7.  its just unreal that someone would call a 40 raise off just a 5 blind with 2 5 offsuit.   if it was 3 4 or 4 6 i might sleep better tonight or even 2 5 suited would be better.  but i guess next time i'll have to make it 80 to go to win just 40 bucks, but then i risk all my chips to pick up 40 that makes no sense.  i know the money was right for him to call, he knew the greek was calling.  i just wish the greek came over the top with a raise to push everyone else out, he had the stack to do it, and he knew my next move was all in with a smaller stack. 

 

just 5 or 6 hands before this hand i was chopped in half  on an all in as i was on the lower side of the full house to the bigger side, i had 7's full of 8's and winner had 8's full of 7's

 

moral of the story is, to me pocket JJ are my most lost pocket pair i think ever.  to lose on a higher pocket or lower for that matter on the flop is one thing, 2 5 off suit is another.  how do not make this bet.  how did i make the wrong call.  i just had half my stack taken 10 mins earlier and im sitting at a table now with 200 staring at 10/12/15/28 stacks.  you kknow these guys are calling a small all in of only 200, but like i said, to make a bigger raise to pick up pennies, or an all in preflop maybe, i know 2 5 wouldn't make that call, but maybe the greek would've and i have no idea what he had

 

either way i think it was the right move and on the non winning side, what was my % after the flop

i mean i know the strait was made after the flop, so hats not the question, before the flop

 

JJ

As 6s

2 5 offsuit

 

oviously after the turn he made his strait

2 5 off really called 45??

yeah spoon, chip leader at the table, or you could say the big stack.

 

whats the difference, would you buy in to a table with stacks like this, even more so if you saw them play loose for two hours waiting for a seat

 

i'd like to hear your breakdown here.  would your move be an all in preflop to pick up 40.  or would you have just checked the 5 to see the flop.  maybe you would just muck the JJ and get away from the hand

 

common you always brakedown my posts, play this hand out for me here.....

Hah, thanks for the flattery i suppose , anyway...

 

Yeah basically i would've just pushed all in preflop, the table is loose so you said, and they are stacked as hell and you are going to get action from the type of hands you want. What i mean is, you will probably get called by something in the ballpark of 22-99, a10, a9, a8 etc, k10 qj, j10, all of which have you dominated. Im thinking this hand range because it was a limped pot and im not gonna give them credit for advanced play were i see no reason to expect that.

 

I think a great quote, usually applying to aces, works here and that is:

 

 

With your chipstack at, 210 i think? and everyone around you at, 1200ish, you dont really have room to get cute, and by that i mean, just push it. So what, you win 40, but that means the next time you push in you are sittign with 250. Honestly, you shouldve just added on and not been forced in this spot. If you had done so, you wouldve done your previously spoken of raise, probably gotten the same callers, you bet out, the a6 raises possibly, the 52 either smooth calls or raises on top of that, and then you may call or you may fold there, doesnt matter, but the point would be that all the action slowed you down and if there was much more, the jacks wouldve been an easy fold with the connecting board.

 

No way i check my jacks to the flop, what are you hoping for their, only in your dreams will u see a board like Jxx that hits your opponent good enough to give you all in action, especially vs multiple opponents.

 

Normally ill agree that calling with 25, offsuit especially is a bad play, but you didnt really give much information on the guy. If he bought in a big stack like a G and a half or so, i cant fault him, hes coming into a deep stack cash game and is mixing up his hands. Especially if he had been running well earlier that day, or woke up feeling good. When you are in the heat of a game, 45 doesnt really seem like as much as it is when you pull two twentys and a five out of your wallet.

 

IMO if you had pushed, the russian may have called you, again i dont know how loose you are saying this table is, and probably the greek and depending on if the russian bet him out on the flop or not would determine if you win the hand. Honestly i think the greek couldve had 109 99, 88 1010, ak, k10 or something like that, the 109 99 and 1010 is what you should focus on because even though you made the right play he wouldve still sucked out. Thinking about it now he probably had something more a long the lines of a 109, 98, 87,79 type hand which would fold to any flop bet and you would take the pot.

 

The play was all in preflop, you pretty much suckered yourself in with the enticing (sp?) raise, just called for someone to play their little suited, or unsuited, connector/gapped connectors.

 

the table was loose, but it was also full, so not all are playing loose, but the big stacks were, and the two bigger stacks were the most.  pushing all out of pots with their stacks and when the were called the had bottom pair on flops, or draws that hit after the flop....either way its no way to play unless you have the stacks to push around

 

the greek was one of these guys, and i've seen him ride out till 4th street with just a big A before he folded...or so he says.  for the greek to have any pocket pair under 5's to fold is  an absolute no.  not for pennies of 165 all in and him being the last to act after two calls and 2 cards to come.  i honestly put him on two big overs or maybe k9 red, but def no Ace.  with that flop he couldve had outs looking at another huge pot to take.

 

now the russian had beef in the pot, but i don't see him coming over the top of an all in of over 200 preflop with a small ACE even suited.  the guy who played 2 5 and won i can't tell you anything about him.  he sat with about 5 or 6 tops.  ive never played him once where the greek/russian its been more than a half dozen.  like i saaid, he was the 3rd to act in our 4 handed action.  so he was the 2nd to call my 40 on top raise, and he had to know the greek was calling at least, maybe even a push.  so 40+ my add 40+ russian add 40 is 120 and his 40 and greek was coming in his odds were right to see the flop.  i might of made the call to for that money but he had to know his cards were live.  it just sucks you have to push in these situations to pick up small pots.  i know its the right move, but with JJ im afraid to move all in preflop and someone with  overs come in and hit the flop. but all in was the move, i know it now

i play limit...got lucky the other day with JJ...i was the small blind about 6 people in already , i raised. then flop was 10 , 7,4 or something llike that..no draws...i bet 2 calss then a raise so i reraise. still like 4 people in ..turn is a 4 i bet all call. river is a jack i bet , 2 calls and one guy turned over KK... other guy mucked

 

 

guy with KK just called all hand...i got lucky though, good pot too