Listen to this One. Playing a poker tournanet 25k guaranteed on pokerstars. Over 6000 player s with a 5$ buyin. Was 2nd in chips and after playing 12 hours was down to final table, still second in chips.
Had Pocket 9s...was a small raise by chip leader so I called. Flop was 9 9 10. I was out of position so the chip leader goes all in and I was in heaven with my quads. Dude had 10 10 and on the river hits his quad 10s to beat my quad 9s. Was out in 9th place with 270$. Winner was to get close to 6k. So pissed.
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Listen to this One. Playing a poker tournanet 25k guaranteed on pokerstars. Over 6000 player s with a 5$ buyin. Was 2nd in chips and after playing 12 hours was down to final table, still second in chips.
Had Pocket 9s...was a small raise by chip leader so I called. Flop was 9 9 10. I was out of position so the chip leader goes all in and I was in heaven with my quads. Dude had 10 10 and on the river hits his quad 10s to beat my quad 9s. Was out in 9th place with 270$. Winner was to get close to 6k. So pissed.
Listen to this One. Playing a poker tournanet 25k guaranteed on pokerstars. Over 6000 player s with a 5$ buyin. Was 2nd in chips and after playing 12 hours was down to final table, still second in chips.
Had Pocket 9s...was a small raise by chip leader so I called. Flop was 9 9 10. I was out of position so the chip leader goes all in and I was in heaven with my quads. Dude had 10 10 and on the river hits his quad 10s to beat my quad 9s. Was out in 9th place with 270$. Winner was to get close to 6k. So pissed.
Wow. That's obviously a sick beat, but believe it or not, mine was worse from a math standpoint.
When all your money went in, you were a 95.54% favorite. I was a 96.83% favorite.
But yeah, losing with quads is pretty brutal. I don't think I've ever done that.
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Quote Originally Posted by Tippster:
Listen to this One. Playing a poker tournanet 25k guaranteed on pokerstars. Over 6000 player s with a 5$ buyin. Was 2nd in chips and after playing 12 hours was down to final table, still second in chips.
Had Pocket 9s...was a small raise by chip leader so I called. Flop was 9 9 10. I was out of position so the chip leader goes all in and I was in heaven with my quads. Dude had 10 10 and on the river hits his quad 10s to beat my quad 9s. Was out in 9th place with 270$. Winner was to get close to 6k. So pissed.
Wow. That's obviously a sick beat, but believe it or not, mine was worse from a math standpoint.
When all your money went in, you were a 95.54% favorite. I was a 96.83% favorite.
But yeah, losing with quads is pretty brutal. I don't think I've ever done that.
One time I was playing a tournament something like 2500FPP or some number 9 ppl top 3 got into the SUNDAY MILLIONS aka 215$
5 people left and I have AJ suited I raise pre-flop and A10 calls.
flop 2 4 J rainbow...I forgot who pushed but we end up all in, or at least I do...turn 10 river 10...I would of been chip leader and on my way to cashing for 215$ but instead i am out
butttttttt
One time I was playing a micro tourney 2-3 dollars and I ended up all in with 10 10 vs 5 5 I kid you not flop was 2 5 5...turn 10 river 10 I saved the screenshot. 99.9 percent favorite when he hit quads on the flop.
I played the lotto that night and lost
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Interesting...
One time I was playing a tournament something like 2500FPP or some number 9 ppl top 3 got into the SUNDAY MILLIONS aka 215$
5 people left and I have AJ suited I raise pre-flop and A10 calls.
flop 2 4 J rainbow...I forgot who pushed but we end up all in, or at least I do...turn 10 river 10...I would of been chip leader and on my way to cashing for 215$ but instead i am out
butttttttt
One time I was playing a micro tourney 2-3 dollars and I ended up all in with 10 10 vs 5 5 I kid you not flop was 2 5 5...turn 10 river 10 I saved the screenshot. 99.9 percent favorite when he hit quads on the flop.
I lost a pot of over 2K with Quad aces to a river royal flush 4 years ago. The next day I won a pot of $3,500 with quad aces. I used that money to buy my now-wife her engagement ring.
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Quote Originally Posted by Iw1nBets:
yup lost my quads to a royal flush
I lost a pot of over 2K with Quad aces to a river royal flush 4 years ago. The next day I won a pot of $3,500 with quad aces. I used that money to buy my now-wife her engagement ring.
So I'm playing in an online tournament, 39 people registered.
We are down to six people.
Top five people get paid.
I'm second in chips.
The chip leader makes a standard raise in early position, it folds around to me, and I'm on the button with jacks. I call.
The blinds both fold.
The flop comes AJ3, rainbow board. I'm ecstatic.
He leads out with a bet, I make a minimum raise, and he instantly goes all in. Of course I'm calling, the only hand that beats me is AA.
He flips over AK, and I'm a 96%+ favorite.
The turn is an Ace.....and the river is a King.
What a sickening way to bubble.
that sucks man. This would have been hard to do, but you could have folded that set. as you said, you were 1 place out of the money with the second biggest stack, and you decided to tangle with the chip leader. There were 4 other guys at the table with lower stacks than you and you put your money on the line against the only guy that could knock you out, one place before the money. You had a set, but you didn't have the nuts. You could have folded. Still sucks. but in that position, you could have folded.
If someone with a bigger stack than you went all-in before the flop and it came to you to make a decision, folding AA is probably the right move.
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Quote Originally Posted by The Giant:
So I'm playing in an online tournament, 39 people registered.
We are down to six people.
Top five people get paid.
I'm second in chips.
The chip leader makes a standard raise in early position, it folds around to me, and I'm on the button with jacks. I call.
The blinds both fold.
The flop comes AJ3, rainbow board. I'm ecstatic.
He leads out with a bet, I make a minimum raise, and he instantly goes all in. Of course I'm calling, the only hand that beats me is AA.
He flips over AK, and I'm a 96%+ favorite.
The turn is an Ace.....and the river is a King.
What a sickening way to bubble.
that sucks man. This would have been hard to do, but you could have folded that set. as you said, you were 1 place out of the money with the second biggest stack, and you decided to tangle with the chip leader. There were 4 other guys at the table with lower stacks than you and you put your money on the line against the only guy that could knock you out, one place before the money. You had a set, but you didn't have the nuts. You could have folded. Still sucks. but in that position, you could have folded.
If someone with a bigger stack than you went all-in before the flop and it came to you to make a decision, folding AA is probably the right move.
that sucks man. This would have been hard to do, but you could have folded that set. as you said, you were 1 place out of the money with the second biggest stack, and you decided to tangle with the chip leader. There were 4 other guys at the table with lower stacks than you and you put your money on the line against the only guy that could knock you out, one place before the money. You had a set, but you didn't have the nuts. You could have folded. Still sucks. but in that position, you could have folded.
If someone with a bigger stack than you went all-in before the flop and it came to you to make a decision, folding AA is probably the right move.
Spoken like someone who has never won a tournament, I love guys like you, too scared to play a hand when it gets close to the bubble. Did you play the tournament to min cash? Or to win it? Put your chips in when you have the best hand, don't fold your way to 5'th place
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Quote Originally Posted by Gunners:
that sucks man. This would have been hard to do, but you could have folded that set. as you said, you were 1 place out of the money with the second biggest stack, and you decided to tangle with the chip leader. There were 4 other guys at the table with lower stacks than you and you put your money on the line against the only guy that could knock you out, one place before the money. You had a set, but you didn't have the nuts. You could have folded. Still sucks. but in that position, you could have folded.
If someone with a bigger stack than you went all-in before the flop and it came to you to make a decision, folding AA is probably the right move.
Spoken like someone who has never won a tournament, I love guys like you, too scared to play a hand when it gets close to the bubble. Did you play the tournament to min cash? Or to win it? Put your chips in when you have the best hand, don't fold your way to 5'th place
Spoken like someone who has never won a tournament, I love guys like you, too scared to play a hand when it gets close to the bubble. Did you play the tournament to min cash? Or to win it? Put your chips in when you have the best hand, don't fold your way to 5'th place
haha, no man. that's not it. he's talking about a tournament where he was at the final table as 2nd in chips, one more person to knock out to get in the money.
If i'm in a 2000 person tournament and i'm one place out of cashing at 350th place or whatever, i'd never lay down the best hand to be worried about a draw.
But if i'm 2nd in chips, one place out of the money in a tournament that only plays 5 places, and the chip leader goes all-in on me, after raising preflop from EARLY position, then betting post flop, and re-raising all in, and i didn't have the nuts, i would have thought about folding. And i certainly wouldn't complain about it afterwards if i called and lost. He EASILY could have had AA in that scenario. The important thing to note here are that he tangled with the only guy that could knock him out, at the absolute worst time in the tournament to do it.
I'm not saying it's an easy laydown or anything, but a great poker player might lay that down. I'm not a great poker player, I probably would have called. but there is an argument to laying down the hand. that's all i'm saying. If he layed it down, he'd be third in chips or something, and then the short stack would have busted out, and who knows, maybe he would have won the tournament. instead, he called, and lost. So you're telling me that i'm scared? doesn't compute.
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Quote Originally Posted by Amp:
Spoken like someone who has never won a tournament, I love guys like you, too scared to play a hand when it gets close to the bubble. Did you play the tournament to min cash? Or to win it? Put your chips in when you have the best hand, don't fold your way to 5'th place
haha, no man. that's not it. he's talking about a tournament where he was at the final table as 2nd in chips, one more person to knock out to get in the money.
If i'm in a 2000 person tournament and i'm one place out of cashing at 350th place or whatever, i'd never lay down the best hand to be worried about a draw.
But if i'm 2nd in chips, one place out of the money in a tournament that only plays 5 places, and the chip leader goes all-in on me, after raising preflop from EARLY position, then betting post flop, and re-raising all in, and i didn't have the nuts, i would have thought about folding. And i certainly wouldn't complain about it afterwards if i called and lost. He EASILY could have had AA in that scenario. The important thing to note here are that he tangled with the only guy that could knock him out, at the absolute worst time in the tournament to do it.
I'm not saying it's an easy laydown or anything, but a great poker player might lay that down. I'm not a great poker player, I probably would have called. but there is an argument to laying down the hand. that's all i'm saying. If he layed it down, he'd be third in chips or something, and then the short stack would have busted out, and who knows, maybe he would have won the tournament. instead, he called, and lost. So you're telling me that i'm scared? doesn't compute.
that sucks man. This would have been hard to do, but you could have folded that set. as you said, you were 1 place out of the money with the second biggest stack, and you decided to tangle with the chip leader. There were 4 other guys at the table with lower stacks than you and you put your money on the line against the only guy that could knock you out, one place before the money. You had a set, but you didn't have the nuts. You could have folded. Still sucks. but in that position, you could have folded.
If someone with a bigger stack than you went all-in before the flop and it came to you to make a decision, folding AA is probably the right move.
With only 39 players entered I have to imagine the lions share of the prize pool is with first place.
There is no reasonable excuse to fold here.
Folding and trying to backdoor 4th or 5th is not only fairly insane but it's far less EV than taking the huge overall chip to prize equity this situation offering him.
If you would honestly consider folding the 2nd nuts, as the 2nd stack, against the 1st stack, on the bubble (and very short bubble to boot, he wins this hand and he pretty much can cruise to 2nd place and he is probably a 85% favorite to win the tournament) then tournament Poker is probably not for you.
A couple of years ago I read a blog about all the top WPT players, in fact this blog has the stats of every single person who has ever cashed on the WPT.
And it was funny to see a few of the guys who had the highest % of cashed were actually losing money playing the circuit.
Having a goal of just cashing a Poker tournament is a quick way to find yourself losing alot of money.
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Quote Originally Posted by Gunners:
that sucks man. This would have been hard to do, but you could have folded that set. as you said, you were 1 place out of the money with the second biggest stack, and you decided to tangle with the chip leader. There were 4 other guys at the table with lower stacks than you and you put your money on the line against the only guy that could knock you out, one place before the money. You had a set, but you didn't have the nuts. You could have folded. Still sucks. but in that position, you could have folded.
If someone with a bigger stack than you went all-in before the flop and it came to you to make a decision, folding AA is probably the right move.
With only 39 players entered I have to imagine the lions share of the prize pool is with first place.
There is no reasonable excuse to fold here.
Folding and trying to backdoor 4th or 5th is not only fairly insane but it's far less EV than taking the huge overall chip to prize equity this situation offering him.
If you would honestly consider folding the 2nd nuts, as the 2nd stack, against the 1st stack, on the bubble (and very short bubble to boot, he wins this hand and he pretty much can cruise to 2nd place and he is probably a 85% favorite to win the tournament) then tournament Poker is probably not for you.
A couple of years ago I read a blog about all the top WPT players, in fact this blog has the stats of every single person who has ever cashed on the WPT.
And it was funny to see a few of the guys who had the highest % of cashed were actually losing money playing the circuit.
Having a goal of just cashing a Poker tournament is a quick way to find yourself losing alot of money.
haha, no man. that's not it. he's talking about a tournament where he was at the final table as 2nd in chips, one more person to knock out to get in the money.
If i'm in a 2000 person tournament and i'm one place out of cashing at 350th place or whatever, i'd never lay down the best hand to be worried about a draw.
But if i'm 2nd in chips, one place out of the money in a tournament that only plays 5 places, and the chip leader goes all-in on me, after raising preflop from EARLY position, then betting post flop, and re-raising all in, and i didn't have the nuts, i would have thought about folding. And i certainly wouldn't complain about it afterwards if i called and lost. He EASILY could have had AA in that scenario. The important thing to note here are that he tangled with the only guy that could knock him out, at the absolute worst time in the tournament to do it.
I'm not saying it's an easy laydown or anything, but a great poker player might lay that down. I'm not a great poker player, I probably would have called. but there is an argument to laying down the hand. that's all i'm saying. If he layed it down, he'd be third in chips or something, and then the short stack would have busted out, and who knows, maybe he would have won the tournament. instead, he called, and lost. So you're telling me that i'm scared? doesn't compute.
No, not saying that your scared, maybe I just play more aggresive than you? Sure, your opponent could have had AA, but it's hard for us to say, we weren't at the table to see how he played the rest of his hands. Different styles of play, thats all.
Where in NY are you from? Ever play in the poker rooms upstate? Turning stone? Seneca?
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Quote Originally Posted by Gunners:
haha, no man. that's not it. he's talking about a tournament where he was at the final table as 2nd in chips, one more person to knock out to get in the money.
If i'm in a 2000 person tournament and i'm one place out of cashing at 350th place or whatever, i'd never lay down the best hand to be worried about a draw.
But if i'm 2nd in chips, one place out of the money in a tournament that only plays 5 places, and the chip leader goes all-in on me, after raising preflop from EARLY position, then betting post flop, and re-raising all in, and i didn't have the nuts, i would have thought about folding. And i certainly wouldn't complain about it afterwards if i called and lost. He EASILY could have had AA in that scenario. The important thing to note here are that he tangled with the only guy that could knock him out, at the absolute worst time in the tournament to do it.
I'm not saying it's an easy laydown or anything, but a great poker player might lay that down. I'm not a great poker player, I probably would have called. but there is an argument to laying down the hand. that's all i'm saying. If he layed it down, he'd be third in chips or something, and then the short stack would have busted out, and who knows, maybe he would have won the tournament. instead, he called, and lost. So you're telling me that i'm scared? doesn't compute.
No, not saying that your scared, maybe I just play more aggresive than you? Sure, your opponent could have had AA, but it's hard for us to say, we weren't at the table to see how he played the rest of his hands. Different styles of play, thats all.
Where in NY are you from? Ever play in the poker rooms upstate? Turning stone? Seneca?
haha, no man. that's not it. he's talking about a tournament where he was at the final table as 2nd in chips, one more person to knock out to get in the money.
If i'm in a 2000 person tournament and i'm one place out of cashing at 350th place or whatever, i'd never lay down the best hand to be worried about a draw.
But if i'm 2nd in chips, one place out of the money in a tournament that only plays 5 places, and the chip leader goes all-in on me, after raising preflop from EARLY position, then betting post flop, and re-raising all in, and i didn't have the nuts, i would have thought about folding. And i certainly wouldn't complain about it afterwards if i called and lost. He EASILY could have had AA in that scenario. The important thing to note here are that he tangled with the only guy that could knock him out, at the absolute worst time in the tournament to do it.
I'm not saying it's an easy laydown or anything, but a great poker player might lay that down. I'm not a great poker player, I probably would have called. but there is an argument to laying down the hand. that's all i'm saying. If he layed it down, he'd be third in chips or something, and then the short stack would have busted out, and who knows, maybe he would have won the tournament. instead, he called, and lost. So you're telling me that i'm scared? doesn't compute.
There is no great player in the world who would have laid that hand down.
I promise you this.
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Quote Originally Posted by Gunners:
haha, no man. that's not it. he's talking about a tournament where he was at the final table as 2nd in chips, one more person to knock out to get in the money.
If i'm in a 2000 person tournament and i'm one place out of cashing at 350th place or whatever, i'd never lay down the best hand to be worried about a draw.
But if i'm 2nd in chips, one place out of the money in a tournament that only plays 5 places, and the chip leader goes all-in on me, after raising preflop from EARLY position, then betting post flop, and re-raising all in, and i didn't have the nuts, i would have thought about folding. And i certainly wouldn't complain about it afterwards if i called and lost. He EASILY could have had AA in that scenario. The important thing to note here are that he tangled with the only guy that could knock him out, at the absolute worst time in the tournament to do it.
I'm not saying it's an easy laydown or anything, but a great poker player might lay that down. I'm not a great poker player, I probably would have called. but there is an argument to laying down the hand. that's all i'm saying. If he layed it down, he'd be third in chips or something, and then the short stack would have busted out, and who knows, maybe he would have won the tournament. instead, he called, and lost. So you're telling me that i'm scared? doesn't compute.
There is no great player in the world who would have laid that hand down.
Also I dont claim to be a great Tournament player.
In fact while in the past I used to play some Tournaments today I'm strictly a Cash Game player.
I'm just talking basic mathematical Expectation here.
Something all Poker players should have a mastery of but THANKFULLY less than 5% of them do.
95% of all people who play Tournaments dont have any clue that the size of their stack has to be compared the A) The structure of the prize pool, B) The amount of players left in the tournament, and C) The structure of the times levels.
You can at all times put a value on how effectively risking your entire stack vs the potential long term cash payout expected is.
In this spot, under these circumstances the long term benefit far outwieghts any short-term bad luck.
So in fact there is so much positive expected value in this scenario that I will repeat my statement again.
There is no great player in the world who would walk away from this spot.
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Also I dont claim to be a great Tournament player.
In fact while in the past I used to play some Tournaments today I'm strictly a Cash Game player.
I'm just talking basic mathematical Expectation here.
Something all Poker players should have a mastery of but THANKFULLY less than 5% of them do.
95% of all people who play Tournaments dont have any clue that the size of their stack has to be compared the A) The structure of the prize pool, B) The amount of players left in the tournament, and C) The structure of the times levels.
You can at all times put a value on how effectively risking your entire stack vs the potential long term cash payout expected is.
In this spot, under these circumstances the long term benefit far outwieghts any short-term bad luck.
So in fact there is so much positive expected value in this scenario that I will repeat my statement again.
There is no great player in the world who would walk away from this spot.
you're probably right about having the second nuts, and going for it. I would have called.
But what if he came on here and said he had AJ?
The point is, tangling with the chip leader at your table, while you're the 2nd in chips, and the chip leader is playing aggressively, while you're one place out of the money = bad idea.
That's all i'm saying.
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you're probably right about having the second nuts, and going for it. I would have called.
But what if he came on here and said he had AJ?
The point is, tangling with the chip leader at your table, while you're the 2nd in chips, and the chip leader is playing aggressively, while you're one place out of the money = bad idea.
you're probably right about having the second nuts, and going for it. I would have called.
But what if he came on here and said he had AJ?
The point is, tangling with the chip leader at your table, while you're the 2nd in chips, and the chip leader is playing aggressively, while you're one place out of the money = bad idea.
That's all i'm saying.
If he had AJ it's still an insta-call. While his EV has gone down of course it's still a + play.
And what I'm trying to explain here is that this statement:
The point is, tangling with the chip leader at your table, while you're the 2nd in chips, and the chip leader is playing aggressively, while you're one place out of the money = bad idea.
Is 100000000% mathematically incorrect.
You guys have to stop watching Poker on TV and start reading some books on Expected Value for Gamblers.
If you ever want to have any chance at winning money at gambling (be it Poker, Sports Betting...whatever) you have to learn that the whole science of all these games are based on nothing more than math.
Learn the math, win the money. The end.
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Quote Originally Posted by Gunners:
you're probably right about having the second nuts, and going for it. I would have called.
But what if he came on here and said he had AJ?
The point is, tangling with the chip leader at your table, while you're the 2nd in chips, and the chip leader is playing aggressively, while you're one place out of the money = bad idea.
That's all i'm saying.
If he had AJ it's still an insta-call. While his EV has gone down of course it's still a + play.
And what I'm trying to explain here is that this statement:
The point is, tangling with the chip leader at your table, while you're the 2nd in chips, and the chip leader is playing aggressively, while you're one place out of the money = bad idea.
Is 100000000% mathematically incorrect.
You guys have to stop watching Poker on TV and start reading some books on Expected Value for Gamblers.
If you ever want to have any chance at winning money at gambling (be it Poker, Sports Betting...whatever) you have to learn that the whole science of all these games are based on nothing more than math.
mathematically incorrect if you're playing endless amounts of tournaments and making your living as a poker player. what if it was the world series of poker? you finally had your chance to win big, and you tangled with the chip leader at the worst time?
I understand what you are saying and it makes sense for professionals. I'm not arguing against that at all.
As for me, i'm in NYC and i don't generally go upstate. I've played at the Borgata a lot and at Foxwoods. But mostly just online, casually.
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mathematically incorrect if you're playing endless amounts of tournaments and making your living as a poker player. what if it was the world series of poker? you finally had your chance to win big, and you tangled with the chip leader at the worst time?
I understand what you are saying and it makes sense for professionals. I'm not arguing against that at all.
As for me, i'm in NYC and i don't generally go upstate. I've played at the Borgata a lot and at Foxwoods. But mostly just online, casually.
The point is, in your theory your worried about cashing, not winning, if you fold there, your giving the chip leader an even bigger advantage, while putting yourself in 3'rd or maybe 4'th in chips, then having to get lucky to get back to having a shot to win it. It's a much better bet that he doesn't have AA rather than trying to double up again in a later hand
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The point is, in your theory your worried about cashing, not winning, if you fold there, your giving the chip leader an even bigger advantage, while putting yourself in 3'rd or maybe 4'th in chips, then having to get lucky to get back to having a shot to win it. It's a much better bet that he doesn't have AA rather than trying to double up again in a later hand
yes, you're right. i try to get into the money before i try to win. i only play these long tournaments once in a while and after playing for 5 hours, the thought of losing one spot before the money is devastating to me. i hate the thought of it. it's probably not good long-term poker strategy.
It's a rare occurance that i'd be 2nd in chips and facing the chip leader one place out of the money, though. this doesn't happen every tournament. it's very rare, and if it did happen once, i'd be a little more cautious. i don't think i'm terribly wrong in that logic, but to each his own.
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yes, you're right. i try to get into the money before i try to win. i only play these long tournaments once in a while and after playing for 5 hours, the thought of losing one spot before the money is devastating to me. i hate the thought of it. it's probably not good long-term poker strategy.
It's a rare occurance that i'd be 2nd in chips and facing the chip leader one place out of the money, though. this doesn't happen every tournament. it's very rare, and if it did happen once, i'd be a little more cautious. i don't think i'm terribly wrong in that logic, but to each his own.
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I saved the screenshot. 99.9 percent favorite when he hit quads on the flop.
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