Dude, the defense has the right to review and inspect ALL of the evidence. I'm not saying they turn it over unsupervised or whatever, you're talking about something else. I'm just saying the defense has a right to ALL evidence BEFORE trial.
Good thing you tried to obscure and change the subject for your buddy who thinks the defense is not entitled to see the evidence before trial.
That does not entitle them to bring it home, keep it for three years, and then dispose of the evidence you tool
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Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:
Dude, the defense has the right to review and inspect ALL of the evidence. I'm not saying they turn it over unsupervised or whatever, you're talking about something else. I'm just saying the defense has a right to ALL evidence BEFORE trial.
Good thing you tried to obscure and change the subject for your buddy who thinks the defense is not entitled to see the evidence before trial.
That does not entitle them to bring it home, keep it for three years, and then dispose of the evidence you tool
Of course not. The criminal enterprise that is KBR was trying to protect its ass.
I am not sure if you misunderstood what I was trying to say in the first place? My question is... how did KBR get their hands on this "rape kit" in the first place? Did they kick down the door of the doctor's office and run off with it? Someone had to have handed it over... correct?
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Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:
Of course not. The criminal enterprise that is KBR was trying to protect its ass.
I am not sure if you misunderstood what I was trying to say in the first place? My question is... how did KBR get their hands on this "rape kit" in the first place? Did they kick down the door of the doctor's office and run off with it? Someone had to have handed it over... correct?
Dude, the defense has the right to review and inspect ALL of the evidence. I'm not saying they turn it over unsupervised or whatever, you're talking about something else. I'm just saying the defense has a right to ALL evidence BEFORE trial.
Good thing you tried to obscure and change the subject for your buddy who thinks the defense is not entitled to see the evidence before trial.
APK wasn't defending anyone's position, most here can speak for themselves.
What appears to have happened ( according to the article ) is the rape kit was taken and then given to Halliburton officials.
That would be like handing over a bloody knife to the defense BEFORE it was tagged or the blood sample taken for a DNA match.
That wasn't a case of discovery or due process, that was close to malfeasance
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Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:
Dude, the defense has the right to review and inspect ALL of the evidence. I'm not saying they turn it over unsupervised or whatever, you're talking about something else. I'm just saying the defense has a right to ALL evidence BEFORE trial.
Good thing you tried to obscure and change the subject for your buddy who thinks the defense is not entitled to see the evidence before trial.
APK wasn't defending anyone's position, most here can speak for themselves.
What appears to have happened ( according to the article ) is the rape kit was taken and then given to Halliburton officials.
That would be like handing over a bloody knife to the defense BEFORE it was tagged or the blood sample taken for a DNA match.
That wasn't a case of discovery or due process, that was close to malfeasance
APK wasn't defending anyone's position, most here can speak for themselves.
What appears to have happened ( according to the article ) is the rape kit was taken and then given to Halliburton officials.
That would be like handing over a bloody knife to the defense BEFORE it was tagged or the blood sample taken for a DNA match.
That wasn't a case of discovery or due process, that was close to malfeasance
Which is exactly the point that depeche missed No one gets handed the evidence to dispose of... that is absolutely unheard of. Here is your murder weapon, please bring it back to the courts within a month or two so we can book it as evidence
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexPKeaton:
APK wasn't defending anyone's position, most here can speak for themselves.
What appears to have happened ( according to the article ) is the rape kit was taken and then given to Halliburton officials.
That would be like handing over a bloody knife to the defense BEFORE it was tagged or the blood sample taken for a DNA match.
That wasn't a case of discovery or due process, that was close to malfeasance
Which is exactly the point that depeche missed No one gets handed the evidence to dispose of... that is absolutely unheard of. Here is your murder weapon, please bring it back to the courts within a month or two so we can book it as evidence
Haliburton wouldnt bury evidence or "misplace" it...nah that is impossible.
HOW DID HALIBURTON GET THE EVIDENCE? Did the woman walk into their headquarters waving it in the air and saying look what I got? Or did the doctor who documented all of this evidence decide to hand it over to Haliburton for further examination instead of turning it over to the authorities??
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Gee..
Haliburton wouldnt bury evidence or "misplace" it...nah that is impossible.
HOW DID HALIBURTON GET THE EVIDENCE? Did the woman walk into their headquarters waving it in the air and saying look what I got? Or did the doctor who documented all of this evidence decide to hand it over to Haliburton for further examination instead of turning it over to the authorities??
The thing is, KBR probably wasn't seen as "the accused" here...they probably told the hospital that they would "handle" the investigation, and handle it they did. If evidence was lost or ruined in their possession then all presumptions should go against them and in favor of the victim. Not sure what court or judicial authority has jurisdiction here, but hopefully KBR will get spanked.
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The thing is, KBR probably wasn't seen as "the accused" here...they probably told the hospital that they would "handle" the investigation, and handle it they did. If evidence was lost or ruined in their possession then all presumptions should go against them and in favor of the victim. Not sure what court or judicial authority has jurisdiction here, but hopefully KBR will get spanked.
My comment was IF HAL got it, would it shock anyone that they might LOSE or mishandle the information?
woop, it happened on THEIR site, in a foreign country in the middle of chaos and disorder..it wouldnt shock me at all.
I tend to believe the woman here, what she says makes sense and since she didnt have representation and was in those conditions, I have no idea what happened..but it wouldnt shock me one bit if things werent handled properly.
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My comment was IF HAL got it, would it shock anyone that they might LOSE or mishandle the information?
woop, it happened on THEIR site, in a foreign country in the middle of chaos and disorder..it wouldnt shock me at all.
I tend to believe the woman here, what she says makes sense and since she didnt have representation and was in those conditions, I have no idea what happened..but it wouldnt shock me one bit if things werent handled properly.
The thing is, KBR probably wasn't seen as "the accused" here...they probably told the hospital that they would "handle" the investigation, and handle it they did. If evidence was lost or ruined in their possession then all presumptions should go against them and in favor of the victim. Not sure what court or judicial authority has jurisdiction here, but hopefully KBR will get spanked.
and what about when she then wants to sue the alledged rapists. Should all presumptions go against them and in favor of the victim?
Should they lose their "due process" ?
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Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:
The thing is, KBR probably wasn't seen as "the accused" here...they probably told the hospital that they would "handle" the investigation, and handle it they did. If evidence was lost or ruined in their possession then all presumptions should go against them and in favor of the victim. Not sure what court or judicial authority has jurisdiction here, but hopefully KBR will get spanked.
and what about when she then wants to sue the alledged rapists. Should all presumptions go against them and in favor of the victim?
My comment was IF HAL got it, would it shock anyone that they might LOSE or mishandle the information?
woop, it happened on THEIR site, in a foreign country in the middle of chaos and disorder..it wouldnt shock me at all.
I tend to believe the woman here, what she says makes sense and since she didnt have representation and was in those conditions, I have no idea what happened..but it wouldnt shock me one bit if things werent handled properly.
Certainly KBR has an interest in this going away, but, without a chain of evidence, how do you know Haliburton got the rape kit.
If it was collected, and then Mr X signed for it, then certainly Mr X needs to be held liable.
If it was handed over to "some guy in sunglasses with a a big nose, bushy eyebrows and a bushy mustache...kinda looked like Groucho Marx" then how can you hold Halliburton liable.
The slanted ARTICLE says Haliburton took control of the evidence> The woman who WANTS TO SUE A COMPANY WITH DEEP POCKETS may also have said Halliburton took possession....
Would love to know the last CONFIRMED individual to have possession.....If that person failed to document who took the "evidence" next, that person, needs to be looked at more carefully.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
My comment was IF HAL got it, would it shock anyone that they might LOSE or mishandle the information?
woop, it happened on THEIR site, in a foreign country in the middle of chaos and disorder..it wouldnt shock me at all.
I tend to believe the woman here, what she says makes sense and since she didnt have representation and was in those conditions, I have no idea what happened..but it wouldnt shock me one bit if things werent handled properly.
Certainly KBR has an interest in this going away, but, without a chain of evidence, how do you know Haliburton got the rape kit.
If it was collected, and then Mr X signed for it, then certainly Mr X needs to be held liable.
If it was handed over to "some guy in sunglasses with a a big nose, bushy eyebrows and a bushy mustache...kinda looked like Groucho Marx" then how can you hold Halliburton liable.
The slanted ARTICLE says Haliburton took control of the evidence> The woman who WANTS TO SUE A COMPANY WITH DEEP POCKETS may also have said Halliburton took possession....
Would love to know the last CONFIRMED individual to have possession.....If that person failed to document who took the "evidence" next, that person, needs to be looked at more carefully.
Why are you guys treating this like it was a regular case, it happened in Iraq did it not?
It's not like this woman would have had a million options for
Most likely she would have went to her bosses, or possibly the MD that haliburton may have had on staff.
This is all speculation but as I said it's not the issue. If she's telling the truth or not is irrelevent, it's the questions raised by her claims that Franken was addressing with his proposed amendment.
The issue is whether or not it should be allowed that gov't contracts are issued to companies who make their employees sign a contract that states they can't sue for X reasons (such as rape etc.).
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Why are you guys treating this like it was a regular case, it happened in Iraq did it not?
It's not like this woman would have had a million options for
Most likely she would have went to her bosses, or possibly the MD that haliburton may have had on staff.
This is all speculation but as I said it's not the issue. If she's telling the truth or not is irrelevent, it's the questions raised by her claims that Franken was addressing with his proposed amendment.
The issue is whether or not it should be allowed that gov't contracts are issued to companies who make their employees sign a contract that states they can't sue for X reasons (such as rape etc.).
Bottomline is our govt should not be doing business and spending our tax dollars to companies that write things like this in their contracts. Its insane to think that in this day and age our govt would give one single taxpayer dime to any company that acts like this.
Once again this shouldnt be a republican / democrat thing, this is a human moral thing.
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Bottomline is our govt should not be doing business and spending our tax dollars to companies that write things like this in their contracts. Its insane to think that in this day and age our govt would give one single taxpayer dime to any company that acts like this.
Once again this shouldnt be a republican / democrat thing, this is a human moral thing.
Bottomline is our govt should not be doing business and spending our tax dollars to companies that write things like this in their contracts. Its insane to think that in this day and age our govt would give one single taxpayer dime to any company that acts like this.
Once again this shouldnt be a republican / democrat thing, this is a human moral thing.
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
Bottomline is our govt should not be doing business and spending our tax dollars to companies that write things like this in their contracts. Its insane to think that in this day and age our govt would give one single taxpayer dime to any company that acts like this.
Once again this shouldnt be a republican / democrat thing, this is a human moral thing.
The amendment was to exempt a specific category of crimes from the arbitration provision that is common in many employment contracts if I understand it correctly. In the Court case in question, the defense argued that this woman's claims against their client should be forced (or "compelled") to go to arbitration for her disputes.
Why?
Because they were arguing that her allegation were "relating to or arising out of the course and scope of her employment", or something along those lines. The trial court judge (I believe) agreed with them, and it was appealed up to the Fifth Circuit. The Fifth Circuit reversed, saying "yah right guys, nice try"
Arbitration, by itself, is not a bad concept at all. Much, much cheaper than litigation for both sides.
I've never heard of any situations whereby one side gets the sole authority to pick the arbitrator. Generally both sides get to strike a couple, and then if they can't agree on who, they pass it to the judge before who the motion to compel arbitration was filed.
/CA admitted attorney
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Context guys.
The amendment was to exempt a specific category of crimes from the arbitration provision that is common in many employment contracts if I understand it correctly. In the Court case in question, the defense argued that this woman's claims against their client should be forced (or "compelled") to go to arbitration for her disputes.
Why?
Because they were arguing that her allegation were "relating to or arising out of the course and scope of her employment", or something along those lines. The trial court judge (I believe) agreed with them, and it was appealed up to the Fifth Circuit. The Fifth Circuit reversed, saying "yah right guys, nice try"
Arbitration, by itself, is not a bad concept at all. Much, much cheaper than litigation for both sides.
I've never heard of any situations whereby one side gets the sole authority to pick the arbitrator. Generally both sides get to strike a couple, and then if they can't agree on who, they pass it to the judge before who the motion to compel arbitration was filed.
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