Elon Musk vs Elizabeth Warren

For example, how did YOU decide THIS was what HIS thread was about from what he posted?  

This was about her calling him out, after being named Person of the Year, about not paying WHAT SHE thinks he should be paying in taxes. 

YOU brought HIS attitude into it.  Then brought up the subsidies and quite promptly made it political.  Then YOU say it is not Left vs Right. 

Your points were valid enough.  There was no need to try to switch it up midstream.  

Subsidies are a valid point.  But attitude AFTER someone dogs you for being recognized for an award?  He is human.  It is natural to be that way.  After all, HE is NOT a a politician or a diplomat.  

Very good points as usual Raiders 

And how much would he have with the stake in Tesla without the freebies and the FED? I think you are missing a few zeros on his net worth now versus then.

Raiders, your comment was that he is being singled out and I am saying there are many who have benefitted from this carbon credit, solar federal credit not just Musk. Musk is the kind of person who demands attention and some of it is bad attention. I agree with you about the Jobs comparison, I felt the same way about Steve as he as an arrogant abusive person to his execs, workers and much of his family, you do not have to abuse people and be a jerk to be successful. 

Of course Warren has an agenda no question but if Musk werent such a limelight loud mouth she would have nobody to go after. She does not get traction with Bezos because Jeff is not a center of attention twitter idiot anywhere to the degree Musk is, and also Bezos's business is not founded by tax credits like Musk. Amazon ALSO had its early years of convert debt and huge interest payments, so they went the same route the difference is Amazon has a business and profits and has for a long time while without federal credits Musk cannot make a profit and likely will not for a long long time if ever.

Detox likes to make everything left vs right and this was the left Warren against a successful businessman as if Musk does not bring it on himself. There are MANY examples of execs who were not such jerks and who were not fighting all the time in public with politicians. Many politicians did not like Gates because of his business tactics, my example of Bezos is spot on...same route same early beginnings of debt and tax breaks to build the business the difference is the person. You dont see Fiskar going on twitter to duke it out with a politician and in fact you dont find many who act like Musk does, he brings it on himself because of his approach and toxic personality.

I think Elon is on the spectrum and that's the reason he comes off as he does. I love the guy. Some years ago, a Toyota plant in my own backyard was shuttering. These were good jobs with benefits. I knew several people who worked there. Elon moved into the site and kept those people working. I have been team Elon ever since. He is a genius mind. And personally, I have done very well with Tesla stock

Sure. And all of that i get. 

But let me ask it this way.  Name a couple of CEOs you would hold up that you think are great examples of what you would see as exemplary.  

What is your ideal big business or CEO or two or three?

We can agree on Jobs and maybe even Musk.  But what about Welch or Stonecipher?  Or any of the last while?  Even back to Ford.  These guys are flat out made different.  Not all are as blatant but these guys are very, very focused and demanding. By their nature and the nature of the job.

Who is not? 

1. She came after him. She brought it on herself because of her approach and her toxic personality. Is he just supposed to let her drag him to her 7m Twitter followers? I like that he said what he believes to his 64m followers and then did a podcast to laugh at “progressives”. 

2. Why would I post something in a politics forum that wasn’t “left vs right”? 

I'm a big Ellison guy. Great man. Met him during the America's cup when he brought it to SF.

@StumpTownStu

 Actually he seems to be a very good example.

I remember an article once that talked about how he took care of top engineers that worked for him with tremendous salaries and stock options — like million-dollar salaries.  I also don’t hear of him in any conflicts.  But I think a lot of the tech — new-age — company guys are like that.  The old-school CEOs not so much.  But my point to WSC was that these guys are very driven and demanding.  They are not used to people saying ignorant things and just letting it slide.  What Warren did was spiteful and he did not let it go.  

I have had the opportunities to meet quite a few top execs and CEOs.  I can tell you that they are used to getting no nonsense from folks.  

Granted, Musk may be way more public than others — but that does not mean the others would have put up with Warren’s nonsense if she had done it to them.  Even, if you make the case ‘that he brought it on himself’ — you still cannot absolve her for that classless act. 

Very good points as usual,  Wallstreetcappers

[Quote: Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers

[/Quote]

yep

always

Stump,

A little shocked, Ellison is awful I cant stand him at all, Ive followed Oracle since the late 90s and he is as smug and little ego as Musk is. 

On the topic of good CEOs I think Cook seems to be reasonable but I dont know enough about him as a CEO just his persona so I would need to bone up more on him and if he is a jerk behind closed doors. I have moderately admired Mikey Dell in the past but the way he handled the go private deal a few years back bugged me, the shareholder got nailed on that one and yet he made out pretty well. I like the CEO who is not a CEO and not elevated over others, is not overpaid and full of themselves and appreciates the worker as much as possible. Id have to see who meets my standard but likely that most public CEO's do not because they have to choose money and share price over other things and it takes a certain kind of person to do otherwise and they usually do not have a job very long in that case.

No need to thread bump or make pointless comments kelly.

@wallstreetcappers

 I met him during the America's cup. I had randomly been given a book about him, specifically how he came to field a sailing team, race the cup, win, and bring the subsequent cup to SF. So I was able to drop some tidbits, fluff his ego a bit. I think the America's cup coming to the Bay was genuinely cool, even if the majority of the locals couldn't give a damn. So the fluff was somewhat sincere. I know people in the tech world, some of which work(ed) at Oracle. He's a well known ass but most of tycoons are. He's not a tech bro. He's the old-fashioned robber baron oil steel railroad tycoon type. Real captain of industry type. And he's self made. They all technically are but I mean in a from humble beginnings kind of way. Horatio Alger shit. So more than like, I guess I would say I respect him. And appreciate him.

These are going to be hard to find simply by the nature of the job.  If you are not driven, focused, and have a big ego -- you will not even make it to a point to be anywhere near this level of management.  Sure, there are some 'nicer' or 'milder' ones.  But my point is that if they do not come right to mind without even having to think about it -- then there probably are very, very few.  It is not always about money or share price either.  Some, folks have plenty of that.  They are just driven to succeed and do the job.  Therefore, some of them really seem arrogant and jerks but really are not.  They are just in the limelight and everything they say or do is highlighted.

The media just have so many people's perception swayed by making the big companies and executives out to be horrible and greedy without taking into consideration the competition and demanding nature of it all.

I am not saying they have to be that way.  I am just saying the these 'traits' are way more emphasized and noted in these high-level, high-visibility jobs.

What would create more net benefit — Elon investing $11b in startups (creating even more tax revenue and jobs and businesses), or paying it to the government and adding yet another government program?

Maybe wallstreetcappers can answer this question directly. 

The 11 states which will require a certain percentage of cars to be zero emission vehicles, or the automakers to purchase credits from a company like Tesla which has exceeded the target, are California (Democrat), Colorado (Democrat), Connecticut (Democrat), Maine (Democrat), Maryland (Democrat), New York (Democrat), New Jersey (Democrat), Oregon (Democrat), Rhode Island (Democrat), Vermont (Democrat), and Elizabeth Warren’s Massachusetts (Democrat). 

@I_Need_A_Detox

 What she gets payed annually by taxpayers would pay for Elon’s idea of fun for a weekend ! Im thankfully I don’t have say “ Yes Sir” to Elon ,Jeff B and the rest of the “Billionaire off shore tax thief’s “When I read a News article about any them and it doesn’t start with plane crash I realize there is no fair & just God. But a new year is days ahead and New Hope is blooming for a plethora well deserved Headlines....Thank you..Mrs Warren for the work that you do !

@joe pockets

'Payed'?  You on a boat?

Don't group everyone altogether just because the perception is that all rich folks do the offshore stuff.  Why wish bad luck on someone you do not even know?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/elon-musk-says-his-taxes-are-simple-and-that-he-doesnt-use-offshore-accounts-or-tax-shelters-in-response-to-sen-warrens-freeloading-claims/ar-AAS5sAy

I don’t want to say anything mean but I can’t comprehend how a male says something like “thank you Mrs Warren!” 

Just seems really bizarre to me. 

What exactly are you thanking her for? What has she accomplished? 

She hasn’t accomplished anything worthwhile...yet.  

I’m thankful to the folks that didn’t nominate her to run for president — because of what she wanted to accomplish.  

You make assumptions on several things here. Elon investing in startups does not mean they will be successful or that they will not ALSO take from the government as a source of structure to their business. Without the government TSLA is gone long ago and does not exist period, same goes for Solar City, both are HEAVILY reliant on subsidies, credits and government gimmicks. I would rather not spend the 11B so Musk can grow his fortune exponentially by leveraging that due to the FED. To me the reason he is successful is due DIRECTLY to the Federal Reserve. If you followed the stock at all from the very beginning, it was not looking good at all...he was having to give horrible term for the cash needed to fund operations, brutal terms as interest rate and conversion to common stock. There was a ton of risk of them going under. Without ZIRP especially Musk 50/50 doesnt make it, if you look at which companies made it through that time it was mainly the heavyweights like FSLR who were not nearly as leveraged as Musk was. 

I would rather spend inside our tax revenues and if we do these carbon credits do not allow them to have both a tax benefit AND allow them to be traded for profit for the company. Tesla makes a very large return from trading carbon credits and from subsidies, their core business of making cars is likely not sustainable and is not why Musk has his fortune.