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How is the GOP not the party of dipshi*, lunatic, farcical, wingnuts when they say things like this?

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Posted: #26
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:


CD, I'm not the brightest guy here (but probably in the top 1% )
but I think I have the root of the problem figured out.

The problem is not Obamacare, nor Trumpcare, nor is it liberal or conservative, right or left, or anything else party related. 

The main issue is big business is making the decisions, and we have gotten to this point because ALL politicians sold out the american people. This has happened over generations and generations. To fix it we need politicians to change/enact laws ... those same politicians who won't change/enact laws because they work for big business. 

Now we could delve into which party is more of a cuckold to big business, but that just gets us back to each side pointing fingers at the other. Both parties are immensely guilty in this regard. 

As an analogy, if one man kills 8 people and another man kills 10 people, they are both equally guilty of being murderers. 
Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty as it relates to political misgivings. 


that's a top 1% post.


but to go back and include what you and wordsmyth are saying, the pharma industry and the health insurance industry are friggin massive.  how do you significantly reduce or limit their influence in our healthcare system when our politicians are so susceptible to financial influence and these companies have enough money to buy politicians until eternity?

 i don't know much about the details of single payer systems.  i know many countries have some version of it, but if it largely cuts out the insurance companies and limits the amounts we pay for prescription drugs, that's going to be a tough road. 
 
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Posted: #27
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

 
also, i posted this in another thread, but you guys don't have a problem with this?

https://www.vox.com/2017/4/25/15429982/gop-exemption-ahca-amendment


This is absurdly disturbing. 

To be fair, both parties have been looking out for themselves since before you and I were on this planet. 

This type of act is not indigenous to one party.

CD, I don't expect many in this forum to agree with this, as the mere fact people are in here suggests that they have strong leanings to one party or the other, but the truth is that neither party is wrong ... it is our political system that is fukked. 
bigreds daddy
 
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Posted: #28
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



that's a top 1% post.


but to go back and include what you and wordsmyth are saying, the pharma industry and the health insurance industry are friggin massive.  how do you significantly reduce or limit their influence in our healthcare system when our politicians are so susceptible to financial influence and these companies have enough money to buy politicians until eternity?


Not even those of us in the top 1% know the answer to this.

I realize what the root cause is, but short of a revolution, I have no idea how to fix it.
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Posted: #29
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:


Ahh yes, spoken as the man blinded by bias that you are.

"your party wants the poor to perish, while my party wants what is best for all"

It matters not which party you support, when this is your viewpoint, your viewpoint is born from ignorance. 


There ya have it folks...

That's their response.

OBAMA! YOUR PARTY!

They will literally turn to dust and ash screaming these two things to their own demise.

It's a complete joke.

SHOW ME THE VIDEO where democratic constituents ERUPT at something a Dem Rep said that is equally bad or worse.

This only comes from the lunatic fringe which has always been t he GOP because now the lies are not even discreet, they say them right to your face an smile in the face of overwhelming counterevidence with regard to life and death issues! 

 
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Posted: #30
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:


There ya have it folks...

That's their response.

OBAMA! YOUR PARTY!

They will literally turn to dust and ash screaming these two things to their own demise.

It's a complete joke.

SHOW ME THE VIDEO where democratic constituents ERUPT at something a Dem Rep said that is equally bad or worse.

This only comes from the lunatic fringe which has always been t he GOP because now the lies are not even discreet, they say them right to your face an smile in the face of overwhelming counterevidence with regard to life and death issues! 


As I said ..."a viewpoint born from ignorance"
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Posted: #31
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:


This is absurdly disturbing. 

To be fair, both parties have been looking out for themselves since before you and I were on this planet. 

This type of act is not indigenous to one party.

CD, I don't expect many in this forum to agree with this, as the mere fact people are in here suggests that they have strong leanings to one party or the other, but the truth is that neither party is wrong ... it is our political system that is fukked. 


also, i'm not sure if this is in the article, but i believe the amendment for those fukks in congress to keep the parts of obamacare they like passed unanimously (i'm pretty sure but not positive, probably an easy google check if anyone is interested).   now again, republicans are the ones saying obamacare is the devil but i don't think one democrat took the honorable position that they should be subjected to the same rules as the people they allegedly work for.
 
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Posted: #32
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:


This is absurdly disturbing. 

To be fair, both parties have been looking out for themselves since before you and I were on this planet. 

This type of act is not indigenous to one party.

CD, I don't expect many in this forum to agree with this, as the mere fact people are in here suggests that they have strong leanings to one party or the other, but the truth is that neither party is wrong ... it is our political system that is fukked. 

Club you can't argue.

You show him something and every retort has to do with Obama and the other party...

Every single one.

No defense of the replace and repeal just, "The other party".

If you did this inside a corporation and said "Hey remember the time that other corporation did this too?" you'd be out on your a**.

But in politics, and with regard to human life, it's completely acceptable.

They are literally comparing an Obama promise to lower premiums (Which it did for MANY, obviously those who were subsidized and who needed it the most), to stripping healthcare from 20-25 million and leaving them with nothing at all.

Hugh, this is why people LAUGH at your party. It is an EMBARRASSMENT.

Again, both parties are corporately owned but the way your party conducts itself is so insane it leaves everyone speechless most of the time. That is why they are not mocked even MORE.

 
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Posted: #33
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:


There ya have it folks...

That's their response.

OBAMA! YOUR PARTY!

They will literally turn to dust and ash screaming these two things to their own demise.

It's a complete joke.

SHOW ME THE VIDEO where democratic constituents ERUPT at something a Dem Rep said that is equally bad or worse.

This only comes from the lunatic fringe which has always been t he GOP because now the lies are not even discreet, they say them right to your face an smile in the face of overwhelming counterevidence with regard to life and death issues! 


Try for one minute, if you are able, to actually read what I have written in this thread.

Remove your blinders of bias, and attempt to comprehend the message I have repeatedly penned within this thread.

When you are done feel free to point out where I took one parties side.
Quote the part where I claimed it was Obama's fault, or your parties fault.

You, my dopey friend, and part of the problem with politics in general.
Blinded with bias, which fuels your rage, which directs your ignorance.
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Posted: #34
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

Club you can't argue.

You show him something and every retort has to do with Obama and the other party...

Every single one.

No defense of the replace and repeal just, "The other party".

If you did this inside a corporation and said "Hey remember the time that other corporation did this too?" you'd be out on your a**.

But in politics, and with regard to human life, it's completely acceptable.

They are literally comparing an Obama promise to lower premiums (Which it did for MANY, obviously those who were subsidized and who needed it the most), to stripping healthcare from 20-25 million and leaving them with nothing at all.

Hugh, this is why people LAUGH at your party. It is an EMBARRASSMENT.

Again, both parties are corporately owned but the way your party conducts itself is so insane it leaves everyone speechless most of the time. That is why they are not mocked even MORE.


#1, I don't have a party. 

I am anti-american-political-system, but I am a proponent of obeying the laws 
(yes, that is a contradiction in itself)

I was/am emphatically anti-Hillary, because to me she represents everything that is wrong and corrupt with out political system.

Once again, you read something that I write and see what you want to see.
Nowhere did I criticize "your party" or Obama.
I commented that the video in question was terrible, and then stated the FACT that BOTH parties are guilty of being self serving.

I did not defend, nor deflect, I assailed our political system.

Why is this lost on you?
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Posted: #35
Scal in case you haven't noticed, the discussion has moved on from the tiny point made in the video.




The solution has to be grounded in the fact that we must find common ground.

What can we do to lower the cost of medical equipment we need to diagnose complex medical equipment. It shouldn't cost $1800 or more for an MRI. And it dam sure shouldn't cost $1400 for a six mile ambulance ride.

Maybe we need another national lottery system where all of the proceeds go to fund national healthcare. Similar lotteries already help pay for quite a bit in some states that allow it. Instead of having one winner per week, maybe have 10 or 20 winners per week of smaller amounts to encourage folks to buy in.

Maybe we could get the government to quit spending 3 hundred bucks on a stapler and spend the savings on healthcare.

Maybe we could change the way the government allocates next years spending based on lased years expenses. Their is no incentive to save money and extra incentive to waste.

Maybe we get the government to purchase the expensive equipment and have the healthcare companies pay limited royalties.

Maybe we could offer Doctors and hospitals limited tax write offs for taking care of less fortunate patients.

There are a number of things we could incorporate.
 
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Posted: #36
To be fair, both parties have been looking out for themselves since before you and I were on this planet.

i forgot, i think there are a few decades between these two starting points, but still probably accurate. 
 
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Posted: #37
Maybe we punish lawyers who bring frivolous lawsuits against doctors/hospitals/pharmaceuticals.

Just as the guy who got yanked off the plane and bumped his face, everyone was celebrating his big pay-day to come, yet no one seems to care that we the public are the only ones who get punished when large corps are sued.
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Posted: #38
As long as healthcare and government are intertwined there will be issues. This is inevitable. Personally, I don't want one penny spent on an adult on government funded insurance with exception of minors and mentally handicapped and until that happens you'll never solve healthcare in America. 

I have the foresight to financially take care of my medical needs and my loved ones don't want money i contributed in taxes to pay for others who didn't have that foresight. F em. Die in the street I don't care. I earned my over the years and want as much as my own money in my own pocket bottom line. Darwinism pure and simple. 
 
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Posted: #39
Quote Originally Posted by wordsmyth:

Scal in case you haven't noticed, the discussion has moved on from the tiny point made in the video.




The solution has to be grounded in the fact that we must find common ground.

What can we do to lower the cost of medical equipment we need to diagnose complex medical equipment. It shouldn't cost $1800 or more for an MRI. And it dam sure shouldn't cost $1400 for a six mile ambulance ride.

Maybe we need another national lottery system where all of the proceeds go to fund national healthcare. Similar lotteries already help pay for quite a bit in some states that allow it. Instead of having one winner per week, maybe have 10 or 20 winners per week of smaller amounts to encourage folks to buy in.

Maybe we could get the government to quit spending 3 hundred bucks on a stapler and spend the savings on healthcare.

Maybe we could change the way the government allocates next years spending based on lased years expenses. Their is no incentive to save money and extra incentive to waste.

Maybe we get the government to purchase the expensive equipment and have the healthcare companies pay limited royalties.

Maybe we could offer Doctors and hospitals limited tax write offs for taking care of less fortunate patients.

There are a number of things we could incorporate.

Life or death is a tiny point and a GOP member saying health care doesn't affect it and moreover is insulted by the suggestion it affects it has been "moved on from".

Of course it has. Because it's indefensible.

And that is why you and hugh are doing everything NOT to address it!

And now Hugh has taken the "I don't have a party so don't say to me."

It's incredible.

I mean I've never seen so many heads in the sand in my entire life.
 
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Posted: #40
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:


I will reserve comment on the video, and not start a counter argument by adding literally millions of video's of liberals saying some of the dumbest things ever recorded, but I will pose a question ...

When it comes to healthcare, what has the left done that has worked?
If your response is "Obamacare" you are not intelligent enough for any discussion on the subject.

Please spare me the default line of "millions of more people have health insurance under Obamacare"
That's the equivalent of saying that your boy Bernie would have fixed the cost of higher education by making college free for everyone.

So I will ask again ... When it comes to healthcare, what has the left done that has worked?


He hasn't insulted liberals or Obama. Yet his FIRST post in the thread is a counter usingwhat liberals say and what Obamacare does.

I mean, this is why I don't argue with him. It's absolutely hysterical the way he thinks!

The age of anti-intellectualism is upon us, tenfold.
 
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Posted: #41
This government is at fault diatribe is not even worth discussing it is so dumb..

The government does not turn the wheel economically, the government is not to blame for healthcare inflation...

And as a side comment to something our resident government guy said, yeah Corps do get to write off helping the less fortunate, it is called uncollected accounts and it goes against revenues. It is a dollar for dollar deduction against revenues. If you do not collect on the account then it is not considered revenue and the costs incurred actually go against other revenues.

Maybe that is why hospitals jack up their top line bills, so when collections do not happen (and they know it will) they get to write off HEAVILY inflated costs of services.

I mentioned this a few times but I had a minor surgery almost two years ago and the top line number that the insurance was "billed" was enormous, what the insurance actually paid was a pittance...something like a 70% reduction and my co-pay was smack right on the same ammt the hospital was given from the insurance company...so I would estimate the hospital was paid half of their billed figure.

Hospitals play the game, they are not stupid, they know how to maximize their losses and write-offs.


 
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Posted: #42
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

This government is at fault diatribe is not even worth discussing it is so dumb..

The government does not turn the wheel economically, the government is not to blame for healthcare inflation...

And as a side comment to something our resident government guy said, yeah Corps do get to write off helping the less fortunate, it is called uncollected accounts and it goes against revenues. It is a dollar for dollar deduction against revenues. If you do not collect on the account then it is not considered revenue and the costs incurred actually go against other revenues.

Maybe that is why hospitals jack up their top line bills, so when collections do not happen (and they know it will) they get to write off HEAVILY inflated costs of services.

I mentioned this a few times but I had a minor surgery almost two years ago and the top line number that the insurance was "billed" was enormous, what the insurance actually paid was a pittance...something like a 70% reduction and my co-pay was smack right on the same ammt the hospital was given from the insurance company...so I would estimate the hospital was paid half of their billed figure.

Hospitals play the game, they are not stupid, they know how to maximize their losses and write-offs.




we do some personal injury at the law offices of cds and i see these medical bills all of the time.  medical bills are kind of like buying stuff from street vendors in the bahamas.  the number of kind of whatever they want it to be but everything is negotiable.

there's the top line number and then there's the number insurance companies get charged and then there's the number insurance companies pay and then there's the number we pay back to the insurance companies.  and they are all different.

also, as to the point about writing these figures off, i have two similar cases now.  both people had similar disc surgeries, one to the back and the other to the neck, but essentially the same procedure.  the guy who has health insurance has medical bills around $80,000.  the one who has no insurance has medical bills just under $400,000.  now, they know they'll never get anywhere near that, but there's a reason they threw that number out there. 
 
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Posted: #43
CD,

The reason they throw the number out there is because the government did it and is responsible..

Hospitals are like infant children, they are innocent and have no understanding of their actions...its the democrats I mean government who is at fault for this legitimate mistake in billing.

 
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Posted: #44
when i saw the bills that added up to nearly $400,000 (mostly just two of them, the doctor's office who did the surgery and the surgery center), i called them and said, you guys know there's no way you are getting anywhere near this amount, right.  and they were like, yeah we know,.  ok, then.  i guess they just throw a huge number out there and write almost all of it off.  they can't pull that garbage when insurance pays but with no insurance the sky, or the writeoff, is the limit. 
 
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Posted: #45
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:


I mean, this is why I don't argue with him. It's absolutely hysterical the way he thinks!


The reason you don't argue with me is because in your 10+ years on this site you have never come close to holding your own in any debate, on any topic 
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Posted: #46
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

This government is at fault diatribe is not even worth discussing it is so dumb..

The government does not turn the wheel economically, the government is not to blame for healthcare inflation...


For the most part the discussion revolved around the medical industry being the cause of this seemingly unfixable dilemma which is our healthcare system. 
Pharmaceuticals, hospitals, doctors, insurers, et al, are all part of the problem, not the solution. 

Although, we have gotten to this point because of our politicians catering to big money, but that ship has sailed and ain't coming back anytime soon. 

So how is it corrected? 
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Posted: #47
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:


For the most part the discussion revolved around the medical industry being the cause of this seemingly unfixable dilemma which is our healthcare system. 
Pharmaceuticals, hospitals, doctors, insurers, et al, are all part of the problem, not the solution. 

Although, we have gotten to this point because of our politicians catering to big money, but that ship has sailed and ain't coming back anytime soon. 

So how is it corrected? 

Yeah I think you know my answer...I saw you mention that earlier and you are spot on with the real issue, but you know I agree with that.

The only way something can be done that means anything is through political reform, and that will NEVER happen.

There should be a brick wall between government and business, campaign contributions should be eliminated and lobbyists kicked out. 

The only way things can change is if politicians have zero incentive to be influenced from outside money..that is the only solution that stands a chance, and that is why it will never happen.
 
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Posted: #48
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


Yeah I think you know my answer...I saw you mention that earlier and you are spot on with the real issue, but you know I agree with that.

The only way something can be done that means anything is through political reform, and that will NEVER happen.

There should be a brick wall between government and business, campaign contributions should be eliminated and lobbyists kicked out. 

The only way things can change is if politicians have zero incentive to be influenced from outside money..that is the only solution that stands a chance, and that is why it will never happen.

I believe (know) that Bernie was bat sh!t crazy with his "everything free for everyone" platform, but I'm surprised he didn't spend more time shining a light on the healthcare problem, and it's true cause.

Bernie was the one politician who seemed like he truly didn't care about the ramifications of speaking the truth.

Of course, his own party did a fine job of silencing him 
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Posted: #49
Agree..

Bernie was the only guy I felt like would do something different and stand up to businesses, he did then and does now.

Trump claimed to have those qualities but that lasted about 1 second after being elected...he was and is a fraud and a phony, how the moronic Christian sheep did not see through his charade I have no idea.

I think I said this a few times too, there is no way you are escaping spending money from the government..it is impossible to avoid, so to me if I am spending my tax dollars I would rather it go towards social causes like healthcare versus big business freebies and foreign wars.

Looks like we got ourselves another Reagan/Bush/Bush in office, smells and looks the same. The only difference is Trump has zero experience and zero class...at least the previous clowns were not such total jerks. 

We are headed for big military spending in the next four years, which is the last thing we need as a country.
 
 
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WSC is a bleeding heart liberal. Don't bother talking to him
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