The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people's view of homosexuality."
By dividing himself from the civil rights movement, and the free love movement , he has disassociated his alliance creating vulnerability.
The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people's view of homosexuality."
By dividing himself from the civil rights movement, and the free love movement , he has disassociated his alliance creating vulnerability.
Tire irons come to represent a physical and pervasive manifestation of homophobia throughout the story. Tire irons are used to beat Earl to death, and Ennis presumes that Jack died by being beaten with tire irons, too. At the end of the story, Proulx describes Ennis’s dreams of Jack when he was young, eating beans out of a can with a spoon. She writes, “The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron.” Even when Ennis dreams of Jack when they were both young, in love, and carefree, the threat of judgment, hatred, and death tinges the memory. Thus the tire iron symbolizes the pervasive threat of violence that hangs over Ennis and Jack’s whole relationship. At any moment, there could be a Joe Aguirre watching them, an Alma judging them, a nameless mob ready to beat them to death. Ennis’s realization that the spoon handle could be used as a tire iron represents how everyday objects can be weaponized in order to punish people seen as “unnatural.” Further, beating gay men with a traditionally masculine tool is another means of attempting to punish and coerce men who are seen as not fitting into the confines of societal ideals source
Tire irons come to represent a physical and pervasive manifestation of homophobia throughout the story. Tire irons are used to beat Earl to death, and Ennis presumes that Jack died by being beaten with tire irons, too. At the end of the story, Proulx describes Ennis’s dreams of Jack when he was young, eating beans out of a can with a spoon. She writes, “The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron.” Even when Ennis dreams of Jack when they were both young, in love, and carefree, the threat of judgment, hatred, and death tinges the memory. Thus the tire iron symbolizes the pervasive threat of violence that hangs over Ennis and Jack’s whole relationship. At any moment, there could be a Joe Aguirre watching them, an Alma judging them, a nameless mob ready to beat them to death. Ennis’s realization that the spoon handle could be used as a tire iron represents how everyday objects can be weaponized in order to punish people seen as “unnatural.” Further, beating gay men with a traditionally masculine tool is another means of attempting to punish and coerce men who are seen as not fitting into the confines of societal ideals source
The cause for the hatred is not fitting into society ideals..
the confines of social ideals rejected homosexual conduct.
The tolerance is placed on those who beat that man to death. As if it were a civic duty.
Tolerance needs to be placed with the victim conduct as he was exploring love.
To do this we need to broaden what is tolerated within social ideals and broaden what is tolerable. So let's start with what happens between in their bedroom is between them.
1
Within the context of the scene.
The cause for the hatred is not fitting into society ideals..
the confines of social ideals rejected homosexual conduct.
The tolerance is placed on those who beat that man to death. As if it were a civic duty.
Tolerance needs to be placed with the victim conduct as he was exploring love.
To do this we need to broaden what is tolerated within social ideals and broaden what is tolerable. So let's start with what happens between in their bedroom is between them.
The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people's view of homosexuality." By dividing himself from the civil rights movement, and the free love movement , he has disassociated his alliance creating vulnerability. Who doesn’t accept them as humans? .... Narrow minded bigots such as these https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article260625882.html https://www.bbc.com/news/av/stories-49743545 https://www.reuters.com/article/ecuador-lgbt-rights-idUSL8N1P03QO https://www.blackenterprise.com/video-shows-22-year-old-brutally-beaten-in-anti-gay-attack-on-subway/ As a sample.
What vulnerability did he create? He didn’t disassociate himself from his alliance—he continued to be a very prominent voice.
I am asking if you see his point and do you see any validity to it? Or do you just assume it is one or more of the things he was saying it really was not?
I am not asking about extreme examples of violence. I am saying no one that is making a rational argument against same sex marriage uses them not being human as a way to make their point.
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people's view of homosexuality." By dividing himself from the civil rights movement, and the free love movement , he has disassociated his alliance creating vulnerability. Who doesn’t accept them as humans? .... Narrow minded bigots such as these https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article260625882.html https://www.bbc.com/news/av/stories-49743545 https://www.reuters.com/article/ecuador-lgbt-rights-idUSL8N1P03QO https://www.blackenterprise.com/video-shows-22-year-old-brutally-beaten-in-anti-gay-attack-on-subway/ As a sample.
What vulnerability did he create? He didn’t disassociate himself from his alliance—he continued to be a very prominent voice.
I am asking if you see his point and do you see any validity to it? Or do you just assume it is one or more of the things he was saying it really was not?
I am not asking about extreme examples of violence. I am saying no one that is making a rational argument against same sex marriage uses them not being human as a way to make their point.
The tire iron scene in Broke Back Mountain. Analysis. Tire irons come to represent a physical and pervasive manifestation of homophobia throughout the story. Tire irons are used to beat Earl to death, and Ennis presumes that Jack died by being beaten with tire irons, too. At the end of the story, Proulx describes Ennis’s dreams of Jack when he was young, eating beans out of a can with a spoon. She writes, “The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron.” Even when Ennis dreams of Jack when they were both young, in love, and carefree, the threat of judgment, hatred, and death tinges the memory. Thus the tire iron symbolizes the pervasive threat of violence that hangs over Ennis and Jack’s whole relationship. At any moment, there could be a Joe Aguirre watching them, an Alma judging them, a nameless mob ready to beat them to death. Ennis’s realization that the spoon handle could be used as a tire iron represents how everyday objects can be weaponized in order to punish people seen as “unnatural.” Further, beating gay men with a traditionally masculine tool is another means of attempting to punish and coerce men who are seen as not fitting into the confines of societal ideals source https://www.litcharts.com/lit/brokeback-mountain/symbols/tire-iron
Cannot speak on this. I’ve never seen the movie.
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
The tire iron scene in Broke Back Mountain. Analysis. Tire irons come to represent a physical and pervasive manifestation of homophobia throughout the story. Tire irons are used to beat Earl to death, and Ennis presumes that Jack died by being beaten with tire irons, too. At the end of the story, Proulx describes Ennis’s dreams of Jack when he was young, eating beans out of a can with a spoon. She writes, “The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron.” Even when Ennis dreams of Jack when they were both young, in love, and carefree, the threat of judgment, hatred, and death tinges the memory. Thus the tire iron symbolizes the pervasive threat of violence that hangs over Ennis and Jack’s whole relationship. At any moment, there could be a Joe Aguirre watching them, an Alma judging them, a nameless mob ready to beat them to death. Ennis’s realization that the spoon handle could be used as a tire iron represents how everyday objects can be weaponized in order to punish people seen as “unnatural.” Further, beating gay men with a traditionally masculine tool is another means of attempting to punish and coerce men who are seen as not fitting into the confines of societal ideals source https://www.litcharts.com/lit/brokeback-mountain/symbols/tire-iron
Within the context of the scene. The cause for the hatred is not fitting into society ideals.. the confines of social ideals rejected homosexual conduct. The tolerance is placed on those who beat that man to death. As if it were a civic duty. Tolerance needs to be placed with the victim conduct as he was exploring love. To do this we need to broaden what is tolerated within social ideals and broaden what is tolerable. So let's start with what happens between in their bedroom is between them.
Again, I really have no idea. I would assume it is a movie and, thus, had an agenda. So, I have no idea if the points you are making using the movie are exaggerated or put in place just to make the director/writer’s point. I just have to take your word for all of that.
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
Within the context of the scene. The cause for the hatred is not fitting into society ideals.. the confines of social ideals rejected homosexual conduct. The tolerance is placed on those who beat that man to death. As if it were a civic duty. Tolerance needs to be placed with the victim conduct as he was exploring love. To do this we need to broaden what is tolerated within social ideals and broaden what is tolerable. So let's start with what happens between in their bedroom is between them.
Again, I really have no idea. I would assume it is a movie and, thus, had an agenda. So, I have no idea if the points you are making using the movie are exaggerated or put in place just to make the director/writer’s point. I just have to take your word for all of that.
Let's deal with black lives matter immediately to dilute the message republicans stated all lives matter, however does this include gays, trans , lesbians those who practice polygamy , prostitution ect ect.
Where privacy is apart of the individualism and conservative values is it only for those who agree with the party platform or does this all lives matter really mean every life is equal to any other human life?
With the freedom to pursue their happiness?
2
Let's deal with black lives matter immediately to dilute the message republicans stated all lives matter, however does this include gays, trans , lesbians those who practice polygamy , prostitution ect ect.
Where privacy is apart of the individualism and conservative values is it only for those who agree with the party platform or does this all lives matter really mean every life is equal to any other human life?
Broke back mountain Is worth watching. Should this be outlawed? Condemned., Consider not suitable for young viewers ect ect ect.... Disney . True lives kiss Sleeping beauty same sex kiss .
I will have to take your word for. Just never had the time for a lot of movies.
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
Broke back mountain Is worth watching. Should this be outlawed? Condemned., Consider not suitable for young viewers ect ect ect.... Disney . True lives kiss Sleeping beauty same sex kiss .
I will have to take your word for. Just never had the time for a lot of movies.
Let's deal with black lives matter immediately to dilute the message republicans stated all lives matter, however does this include gays, trans , lesbians those who practice polygamy , prostitution ect ect. Where privacy is apart of the individualism and conservative values is it only for those who agree with the party platform or does this all lives matter really mean every life is equal to any other human life? With the freedom to pursue their happiness?
Not particularly interested in them either. No one is advocating killing someone for a lifestyle they disagree with. I am not even sure how how entirely political it is.
That is why I was asking if you agreed with the statement about it being more of an agenda to push acceptance of that lifestyle on folks?
I am still interested in hearing what you say on this?
Again, no reasonable person doubts the intrinsic value of each individual.
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
Let's deal with black lives matter immediately to dilute the message republicans stated all lives matter, however does this include gays, trans , lesbians those who practice polygamy , prostitution ect ect. Where privacy is apart of the individualism and conservative values is it only for those who agree with the party platform or does this all lives matter really mean every life is equal to any other human life? With the freedom to pursue their happiness?
Not particularly interested in them either. No one is advocating killing someone for a lifestyle they disagree with. I am not even sure how how entirely political it is.
That is why I was asking if you agreed with the statement about it being more of an agenda to push acceptance of that lifestyle on folks?
I am still interested in hearing what you say on this?
Again, no reasonable person doubts the intrinsic value of each individual.
Broke back mountain Is worth watching. Should this be outlawed? Condemned., Consider not suitable for young viewers ect ect ect.... Disney . True lives kiss Sleeping beauty same sex kiss .
This part I would question though. From what I gather about the movie and what you say here — isn’t that some of the point against that lifestyle?
Don’t a lot of folks, no matter their political views, have questions about subjecting kids to this lifestyle?
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
Broke back mountain Is worth watching. Should this be outlawed? Condemned., Consider not suitable for young viewers ect ect ect.... Disney . True lives kiss Sleeping beauty same sex kiss .
This part I would question though. From what I gather about the movie and what you say here — isn’t that some of the point against that lifestyle?
Don’t a lot of folks, no matter their political views, have questions about subjecting kids to this lifestyle?
This life style isn't being pushed to folks, the lifestyle exists has existed for 1000's of years and will continue to exist. However , the push is for tolerance , so that it becomes as normal as any heterosexual relationship.
We can continue to feel it immoral that we as individuals can even disapprove of the practice but that does not make the participants less than us just different than us.
Tolerance is achievable but the confines of social acceptance needs to be broadened.
When I was young I watched thousands of hours of war features. Westerns ect. Probably witnessed through movie and media 10,000 shootings. Played child games of war cops robbers cowboy and indians.
However any intimate scene was off limits regardless of heterosexual content. Today I can watch bin laden raid while chewing popcorn and slurping soda without even a flicker of emotional response. Good bad or indifferent I am conditioned to killings.
Possible assimilation to accepting homosexual conduct is best addressed through Media .
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This life style isn't being pushed to folks, the lifestyle exists has existed for 1000's of years and will continue to exist. However , the push is for tolerance , so that it becomes as normal as any heterosexual relationship.
We can continue to feel it immoral that we as individuals can even disapprove of the practice but that does not make the participants less than us just different than us.
Tolerance is achievable but the confines of social acceptance needs to be broadened.
When I was young I watched thousands of hours of war features. Westerns ect. Probably witnessed through movie and media 10,000 shootings. Played child games of war cops robbers cowboy and indians.
However any intimate scene was off limits regardless of heterosexual content. Today I can watch bin laden raid while chewing popcorn and slurping soda without even a flicker of emotional response. Good bad or indifferent I am conditioned to killings.
Possible assimilation to accepting homosexual conduct is best addressed through Media .
This life style isn't being pushed to folks, the lifestyle exists has existed for 1000's of years and will continue to exist. However , the push is for tolerance , so that it becomes as normal as any heterosexual relationship. .
Yes it is being pushed for tolerance, absolutely. Because they want it accepted.
Do you now see it as ‘normal’?
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:
This life style isn't being pushed to folks, the lifestyle exists has existed for 1000's of years and will continue to exist. However , the push is for tolerance , so that it becomes as normal as any heterosexual relationship. .
Yes it is being pushed for tolerance, absolutely. Because they want it accepted.
‘We can continue to feel it immoral that we as individuals can even disapprove of the practice but that does not make the participants less than us just different than us.’
Nodoubt about it.
0
‘We can continue to feel it immoral that we as individuals can even disapprove of the practice but that does not make the participants less than us just different than us.’
‘However any intimate scene was off limits regardless of heterosexual content. Today I can watch bin laden raid while chewing popcorn and slurping soda without even a flicker of emotional response. Good bad or indifferent I am conditioned to killings.’
You see this as a good or bad thing?
0
‘However any intimate scene was off limits regardless of heterosexual content. Today I can watch bin laden raid while chewing popcorn and slurping soda without even a flicker of emotional response. Good bad or indifferent I am conditioned to killings.’
Quote Originally Posted by nature1970: Tolerance is not acceptance it is a regarding the issue as not my business or concern You have to now see this as a contradiction when you word it that way?
Yes tolerance implies compliance.
You might not like an idea or action but you can tolerate it.
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
Quote Originally Posted by nature1970: Tolerance is not acceptance it is a regarding the issue as not my business or concern You have to now see this as a contradiction when you word it that way?
Yes tolerance implies compliance.
You might not like an idea or action but you can tolerate it.
Quote Originally Posted by nature1970: I can tolerate the destruction of the unborn child , I can simply look the other way at what ever gross stuff is happening in someone else's bedroom. When you word it this way — ‘gross stuff’ — don’t you have to ask yourself why you have to put those words in there as descriptive? You have to see that some folks would not want children being exposed to — ‘whatever gross stuff is happening in someone else’s bedroom’? Let alone, that you have to describe abortion as — ‘tolerating the destruction of the unborn child’? These words would not be necessary if it were such a simple thing — as letting consenting adults alone in the bedroom.
This is not simple. I never meant to infer it would be simple It is a complex issue and even harder problem to solve in over coming the way we were brought up
But the bottom line it is necessary to advance the ?? man condition to "All people are created equal." All not some most these or those... ALL . This statement isn't qualified to gender sex race religion or health.
All humans are human beings.
Did you get a chance to review the UN rhetoric on the Bill of human rights? There is a lot of work to be done before reality matches the rhetoric.
to
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
Quote Originally Posted by nature1970: I can tolerate the destruction of the unborn child , I can simply look the other way at what ever gross stuff is happening in someone else's bedroom. When you word it this way — ‘gross stuff’ — don’t you have to ask yourself why you have to put those words in there as descriptive? You have to see that some folks would not want children being exposed to — ‘whatever gross stuff is happening in someone else’s bedroom’? Let alone, that you have to describe abortion as — ‘tolerating the destruction of the unborn child’? These words would not be necessary if it were such a simple thing — as letting consenting adults alone in the bedroom.
This is not simple. I never meant to infer it would be simple It is a complex issue and even harder problem to solve in over coming the way we were brought up
But the bottom line it is necessary to advance the ?? man condition to "All people are created equal." All not some most these or those... ALL . This statement isn't qualified to gender sex race religion or health.
All humans are human beings.
Did you get a chance to review the UN rhetoric on the Bill of human rights? There is a lot of work to be done before reality matches the rhetoric.
‘Possible assimilation to accepting homosexual conduct is best addressed through Media .’ It is certainly being done that way — why is the media best to do it?
Global audience, free thinkers , who realize where thought originates realize that the most effective tools are interactive platforms such as where we are discussing this very issue.
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
‘Possible assimilation to accepting homosexual conduct is best addressed through Media .’ It is certainly being done that way — why is the media best to do it?
Global audience, free thinkers , who realize where thought originates realize that the most effective tools are interactive platforms such as where we are discussing this very issue.
‘However any intimate scene was off limits regardless of heterosexual content. Today I can watch bin laden raid while chewing popcorn and slurping soda without even a flicker of emotional response. Good bad or indifferent I am conditioned to killings.’ You see this as a good or bad thing?
I don't see this as good or bad it is. Such the terms good and bad suggest that the experience needs to be qualified the experience is real as it shapes my thoughts .
0
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
‘However any intimate scene was off limits regardless of heterosexual content. Today I can watch bin laden raid while chewing popcorn and slurping soda without even a flicker of emotional response. Good bad or indifferent I am conditioned to killings.’ You see this as a good or bad thing?
I don't see this as good or bad it is. Such the terms good and bad suggest that the experience needs to be qualified the experience is real as it shapes my thoughts .
‘Tolerance is achievable but the confines of social acceptance needs to be broadened.’ Why?
For the greater good to be achieved.
Kindness is greater than malice.
. Love is better than hate.
Peace and prosperity need acceptance.
Man takes a gun shoots a black man and the blacks are unhappy
Man takes a gun shoots a gay man gays are unhappy
Man takes a gun and shoots a homeless man homeless are unhappy.
Liberals deflect that it some how an inanimate object the guns fault.
Reality we should all be outraged that someone was murdered. As we chase the path we find that the man hated. Could not tolerate. So as problem solvers we must find the cause of the problem and eliminate it.
The man was conditioned to feel a certain way. We need him to think differently not just him but others like him and stop the hate.
We don't need black lives matter gay rights matter women's rights matter ect ect... We need humans to realize what happens to one directly affects us all.
So Human Rights Matter. We need to stop judging our neibors and start tolerating their privacy.
0
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
‘Tolerance is achievable but the confines of social acceptance needs to be broadened.’ Why?
For the greater good to be achieved.
Kindness is greater than malice.
. Love is better than hate.
Peace and prosperity need acceptance.
Man takes a gun shoots a black man and the blacks are unhappy
Man takes a gun shoots a gay man gays are unhappy
Man takes a gun and shoots a homeless man homeless are unhappy.
Liberals deflect that it some how an inanimate object the guns fault.
Reality we should all be outraged that someone was murdered. As we chase the path we find that the man hated. Could not tolerate. So as problem solvers we must find the cause of the problem and eliminate it.
The man was conditioned to feel a certain way. We need him to think differently not just him but others like him and stop the hate.
We don't need black lives matter gay rights matter women's rights matter ect ect... We need humans to realize what happens to one directly affects us all.
So Human Rights Matter. We need to stop judging our neibors and start tolerating their privacy.
‘We can continue to feel it immoral that we as individuals can even disapprove of the practice but that does not make the participants less than us just different than us.’ No doubt about it.
0
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
‘We can continue to feel it immoral that we as individuals can even disapprove of the practice but that does not make the participants less than us just different than us.’ No doubt about it.
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