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    All Forums | Politics

    Love this article on trickle down economics (Reagonomics)

    «First Previous 123456 Next Last»
    14daroad
    Ktrain
    TRAIN69
    tikitom
    canovsp
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    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 5:18 PM ET #101

    Follow the MONEY..not the legislative action

    Alternatively, you could see that the $ followed the legislative actions.


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    Follow the MONEY..not the legislative action

    Alternatively, you could see that the $ followed the legislative actions.


     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 5:20 PM ET #102

    Case in point, the RE bubble inflated for a very long period of time before it eventually caved in, and even then we are still feeling the after effects of this decade long problem...yet I am sure to you the whole thing was caused by the democrats with one bill signed the day before the financial crisis happened.

    No wallstreet I didn't say or imply that.

    As I said earlier, the housing bubble was due to 20+ years of Barney Frank writing federal housing policy.

    This led to  Fannie & Freddie, encouraging "affordable housing" to people who couldn't afford a house.
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    Case in point, the RE bubble inflated for a very long period of time before it eventually caved in, and even then we are still feeling the after effects of this decade long problem...yet I am sure to you the whole thing was caused by the democrats with one bill signed the day before the financial crisis happened.

    No wallstreet I didn't say or imply that.

    As I said earlier, the housing bubble was due to 20+ years of Barney Frank writing federal housing policy.

    This led to  Fannie & Freddie, encouraging "affordable housing" to people who couldn't afford a house.
     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 5:25 PM ET #103

    subprime had little if anything to do with the government,

    Well I don't see how you can say that wallstreet;

    That year [2001], Freddie bought $18.6 billion in subprime loans; Fannie did not disclose its number.

    In 2001, HUD researchers warned of high foreclosure rates among subprime loans.

    "Given the very high concentration of these loans in low-income and African American neighborhoods, the growth in subprime lending and resulting very high levels of foreclosure is a real cause for concern," an agency report said.

    But by 2004, when HUD next revised the goals, Freddie and Fannie's purchases of subprime-backed securities had risen tenfold. Foreclosure rates also were rising.

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    subprime had little if anything to do with the government,

    Well I don't see how you can say that wallstreet;

    That year [2001], Freddie bought $18.6 billion in subprime loans; Fannie did not disclose its number.

    In 2001, HUD researchers warned of high foreclosure rates among subprime loans.

    "Given the very high concentration of these loans in low-income and African American neighborhoods, the growth in subprime lending and resulting very high levels of foreclosure is a real cause for concern," an agency report said.

    But by 2004, when HUD next revised the goals, Freddie and Fannie's purchases of subprime-backed securities had risen tenfold. Foreclosure rates also were rising.

     
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 5:35 PM ET #104

    Weren't a lot of these mortgage applications forged or used false information, such as lying about income or liquid assets, by mortgage lenders BEFORE they were sold to Fannie and Freddy?

    I might be wrong on that though.

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    Weren't a lot of these mortgage applications forged or used false information, such as lying about income or liquid assets, by mortgage lenders BEFORE they were sold to Fannie and Freddy?

    I might be wrong on that though.

     
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 5:36 PM ET #105

    I agree though. Follow the money and you will find the root behind any evil doing.
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    I agree though. Follow the money and you will find the root behind any evil doing.
     
    TRAIN69
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 6:09 PM ET #106

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    How naive/uniformed you must be to think you can pinpoint the perpetrator or the exact cause of this



    It isn't complicated.

    I just love how you didn't really engage the issue. Want to guess why that is?

    Its a snowball effect.


    Yes, a snowball effect of 20+ years of Barney Frank writing federal housing policy.

    A snowball effect of Democrats, through Fannie & Freddie, encouraging "affordable housing" to people who couldn't afford a house.

    Who did that work out?

    Like I said naive. I will now add delusional and narrow minded.

    Sad man you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    How naive/uniformed you must be to think you can pinpoint the perpetrator or the exact cause of this



    It isn't complicated.

    I just love how you didn't really engage the issue. Want to guess why that is?

    Its a snowball effect.


    Yes, a snowball effect of 20+ years of Barney Frank writing federal housing policy.

    A snowball effect of Democrats, through Fannie & Freddie, encouraging "affordable housing" to people who couldn't afford a house.

    Who did that work out?

    Like I said naive. I will now add delusional and narrow minded.

    Sad man you are.

     
    tikitom
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 6:44 PM ET #107

    Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:

    Weren't a lot of these mortgage applications forged or used false information, such as lying about income or liquid assets, by mortgage lenders BEFORE they were sold to Fannie and Freddy?

    I might be wrong on that though.

     

    100% correct.

    All fraud, however, was committed because the "fraudsters" knew they could sell the worthless paper to the taxpayers (freddie and fannie).

    No one would loan their money to someone they knew could not pay it back. (FREE MARKET)

    Lots of people would loan someone elses money to anyone if they knew they could sell said loan at a profit before the first payment was due. (SOCIAL ENGINEERING)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:

    Weren't a lot of these mortgage applications forged or used false information, such as lying about income or liquid assets, by mortgage lenders BEFORE they were sold to Fannie and Freddy?

    I might be wrong on that though.

     

    100% correct.

    All fraud, however, was committed because the "fraudsters" knew they could sell the worthless paper to the taxpayers (freddie and fannie).

    No one would loan their money to someone they knew could not pay it back. (FREE MARKET)

    Lots of people would loan someone elses money to anyone if they knew they could sell said loan at a profit before the first payment was due. (SOCIAL ENGINEERING)

     
    canovsp
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 6:51 PM ET #108

    Check out congress's investigation into Franklin Raines. They were having hearings on Freddie and Fannie as early as 2004 if I'm not mistaken.
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    Check out congress's investigation into Franklin Raines. They were having hearings on Freddie and Fannie as early as 2004 if I'm not mistaken.
     
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 7:05 PM ET #109

    Quote Originally Posted by tikitom:

     

    100% correct.

    All fraud, however, was committed because the "fraudsters" knew they could sell the worthless paper to the taxpayers (freddie and fannie).

    No one would loan their money to someone they knew could not pay it back. (FREE MARKET)

    Lots of people would loan someone elses money to anyone if they knew they could sell said loan at a profit before the first payment was due. (SOCIAL ENGINEERING)

    So if Fannie and Freddy were lied to on paper work, how could it be their fault? And in turn, was anyone prosicuted for lying on paperwork? If not, then why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikitom:

     

    100% correct.

    All fraud, however, was committed because the "fraudsters" knew they could sell the worthless paper to the taxpayers (freddie and fannie).

    No one would loan their money to someone they knew could not pay it back. (FREE MARKET)

    Lots of people would loan someone elses money to anyone if they knew they could sell said loan at a profit before the first payment was due. (SOCIAL ENGINEERING)

    So if Fannie and Freddy were lied to on paper work, how could it be their fault? And in turn, was anyone prosicuted for lying on paperwork? If not, then why?

     
    tikitom
    tikitom
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 8:02 PM ET #110

    Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:

    So if Fannie and Freddy were lied to on paper work, how could it be their fault? And in turn, was anyone prosicuted for lying on paperwork? If not, then why?

     

    They didnt worry about reviewing the paper work or scrutinizing any thing because...Mortgages are not "risky"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:

    So if Fannie and Freddy were lied to on paper work, how could it be their fault? And in turn, was anyone prosicuted for lying on paperwork? If not, then why?

     

    They didnt worry about reviewing the paper work or scrutinizing any thing because...Mortgages are not "risky"

     
    tikitom
    tikitom
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 8:15 PM ET #111

    If you have an issue with that video ther are thousands of others that prove who is to blame. You can face the facts or parrot your devry poly-sci prof - your choice. 
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    If you have an issue with that video ther are thousands of others that prove who is to blame. You can face the facts or parrot your devry poly-sci prof - your choice. 
     
    cashin
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 10:15 PM ET #112

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Yes, the repubs did control Congress from '01 to '07 which is all I said.

    How did they "control Congress from '01 to '07" when the Democrats controlled the Senate from June 2001 to January 2003?

    Oh, they didn't.

    Yet you keep lying.

    Yeah, your right. I forgot about that year & a half when that repub switched over to side with dems. Sorry, my bad as they say. I hope you don't throw that "lying" word around as lightly & loosely as you do here, cuz where I come from you'd get the shit beat out of you pretty quick. I'm sure you don't -

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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Yes, the repubs did control Congress from '01 to '07 which is all I said.

    How did they "control Congress from '01 to '07" when the Democrats controlled the Senate from June 2001 to January 2003?

    Oh, they didn't.

    Yet you keep lying.

    Yeah, your right. I forgot about that year & a half when that repub switched over to side with dems. Sorry, my bad as they say. I hope you don't throw that "lying" word around as lightly & loosely as you do here, cuz where I come from you'd get the shit beat out of you pretty quick. I'm sure you don't -

     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 10:28 PM ET #113

    Like I said naive. I will now add delusional and narrow minded.

    I'm posting facts.

    You're calling names.

    Want to take a guess as to why that is?

    Thanks for participating.

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    Like I said naive. I will now add delusional and narrow minded.

    I'm posting facts.

    You're calling names.

    Want to take a guess as to why that is?

    Thanks for participating.

     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 10:34 PM ET #114

    Ktrain,

    Fannie & Freddie made it clear to Wall Street that the MBS and those "Alt-A" loans had the implicit guarantee of the federal government.

    For example:

    Scott Simon was one of those buyers. He works in the mortgage department at Pimco, the world's largest bond manager, and one of the biggest buyers of Fannie and Freddie securities:

    "Fannie and Freddie in meetings with investors, whether it was us or anybody else, essentially just would sort of laugh and say, 'Well, you know the government will stand behind us,'" Simon says.

    --------
    In other words, federal housing policy instructed that "afforadble housing" was the goal. The "affordable housing" instrument was subprime mortgages. The federal government told these mortgage companies, "hey, if anything goes wrong, we'll be here to bail you out"

    In turn, a bunch of mortgage companies made loans to people who couldn't afford a house. When the borrowers defaulted, just as promised, the government bailed them out.

    And that is exactly what happened.

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    Ktrain,

    Fannie & Freddie made it clear to Wall Street that the MBS and those "Alt-A" loans had the implicit guarantee of the federal government.

    For example:

    Scott Simon was one of those buyers. He works in the mortgage department at Pimco, the world's largest bond manager, and one of the biggest buyers of Fannie and Freddie securities:

    "Fannie and Freddie in meetings with investors, whether it was us or anybody else, essentially just would sort of laugh and say, 'Well, you know the government will stand behind us,'" Simon says.

    --------
    In other words, federal housing policy instructed that "afforadble housing" was the goal. The "affordable housing" instrument was subprime mortgages. The federal government told these mortgage companies, "hey, if anything goes wrong, we'll be here to bail you out"

    In turn, a bunch of mortgage companies made loans to people who couldn't afford a house. When the borrowers defaulted, just as promised, the government bailed them out.

    And that is exactly what happened.

     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 11:25 PM ET #115

    Quote Originally Posted by drJ:

    Stanford economist John Taylor discusses the root causes of the recessions in the 80's and now his column today , in the WSJ.
    While heavy government intervention caused both crashes, the attempts to resolve the problems could not be more dis similar.
    Reaganomics lead to a bounty of prosperity and what have we now,  GWB followed by dipshit Obama(dumb and dumber....talks better but dumber.  The crash shall be long, hard and painful.  In 10 years only the truly ignorant will not blame mr obama for his major role in this.


    Amen to that...

    You'll find many well-written articles in the op-ed pcs. of the Journal,  such as this one..... written by Economists... not by dipshit "Journalists"  you'll find aplenty from other newspapers. 


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    Quote Originally Posted by drJ:

    Stanford economist John Taylor discusses the root causes of the recessions in the 80's and now his column today , in the WSJ.
    While heavy government intervention caused both crashes, the attempts to resolve the problems could not be more dis similar.
    Reaganomics lead to a bounty of prosperity and what have we now,  GWB followed by dipshit Obama(dumb and dumber....talks better but dumber.  The crash shall be long, hard and painful.  In 10 years only the truly ignorant will not blame mr obama for his major role in this.


    Amen to that...

    You'll find many well-written articles in the op-ed pcs. of the Journal,  such as this one..... written by Economists... not by dipshit "Journalists"  you'll find aplenty from other newspapers. 


     
    TRAIN69
    TRAIN69
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 11:28 PM ET #116

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Ktrain,

    Fannie & Freddie made it clear to Wall Street that the MBS and those "Alt-A" loans had the implicit guarantee of the federal government.

    For example:

    Scott Simon was one of those buyers. He works in the mortgage department at Pimco, the world's largest bond manager, and one of the biggest buyers of Fannie and Freddie securities:

    "Fannie and Freddie in meetings with investors, whether it was us or anybody else, essentially just would sort of laugh and say, 'Well, you know the government will stand behind us,'" Simon says.

    --------
    In other words, federal housing policy instructed that "afforadble housing" was the goal. The "affordable housing" instrument was subprime mortgages. The federal government told these mortgage companies, "hey, if anything goes wrong, we'll be here to bail you out"

    In turn, a bunch of mortgage companies made loans to people who couldn't afford a house. When the borrowers defaulted, just as promised, the government bailed them out.

    And that is exactly what happened.

    You blame the democrats, but when this was going down and they got bailed out who was president? Was he a democrat? Hmmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Ktrain,

    Fannie & Freddie made it clear to Wall Street that the MBS and those "Alt-A" loans had the implicit guarantee of the federal government.

    For example:

    Scott Simon was one of those buyers. He works in the mortgage department at Pimco, the world's largest bond manager, and one of the biggest buyers of Fannie and Freddie securities:

    "Fannie and Freddie in meetings with investors, whether it was us or anybody else, essentially just would sort of laugh and say, 'Well, you know the government will stand behind us,'" Simon says.

    --------
    In other words, federal housing policy instructed that "afforadble housing" was the goal. The "affordable housing" instrument was subprime mortgages. The federal government told these mortgage companies, "hey, if anything goes wrong, we'll be here to bail you out"

    In turn, a bunch of mortgage companies made loans to people who couldn't afford a house. When the borrowers defaulted, just as promised, the government bailed them out.

    And that is exactly what happened.

    You blame the democrats, but when this was going down and they got bailed out who was president? Was he a democrat? Hmmmm

     
    TRAIN69
    TRAIN69
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    Posts: 55587
    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 11:31 PM ET #117

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Like I said naive. I will now add delusional and narrow minded.

    I'm posting facts.

    You're calling names.

    Want to take a guess as to why that is?

    Thanks for participating.

    Name calling? I was simply using adjectives that describe you. Names are nouns, or can be proper nouns.

    Looks like you missed that day in 5th grade english. Thanks for participating.

    Reply
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Like I said naive. I will now add delusional and narrow minded.

    I'm posting facts.

    You're calling names.

    Want to take a guess as to why that is?

    Thanks for participating.

    Name calling? I was simply using adjectives that describe you. Names are nouns, or can be proper nouns.

    Looks like you missed that day in 5th grade english. Thanks for participating.

     
    Rush51
    Rush51
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    Posts: 8840
    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 11:36 PM ET #118

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

    You blame the democrats, but when this was going down and they got bailed out who was president? Was he a democrat? Hmmmm



    Both parties are to blame and participated in bigger government.  

    Check out the link from Dr. J contained in post #115.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

    You blame the democrats, but when this was going down and they got bailed out who was president? Was he a democrat? Hmmmm



    Both parties are to blame and participated in bigger government.  

    Check out the link from Dr. J contained in post #115.


     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jul. 22, 2011 - 11:54 PM ET #119

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Ktrain,

    Fannie & Freddie made it clear to Wall Street that the MBS and those "Alt-A" loans had the implicit guarantee of the federal government.

    For example:

    Scott Simon was one of those buyers. He works in the mortgage department at Pimco, the world's largest bond manager, and one of the biggest buyers of Fannie and Freddie securities:

    "Fannie and Freddie in meetings with investors, whether it was us or anybody else, essentially just would sort of laugh and say, 'Well, you know the government will stand behind us,'" Simon says.

    --------
    In other words, federal housing policy instructed that "afforadble housing" was the goal. The "affordable housing" instrument was subprime mortgages. The federal government told these mortgage companies, "hey, if anything goes wrong, we'll be here to bail you out"

    In turn, a bunch of mortgage companies made loans to people who couldn't afford a house. When the borrowers defaulted, just as promised, the government bailed them out.

    And that is exactly what happened.


    We obviously have a huge difference of opinion on this.

    I dont think this was a "equal housing" issue at all, rather again..follow the money. Who stands to gain MOST from the backstop, answer..the corporations who are originating the loans, slicing and dicing the loans, the money trail leads from the corporation straight to congress.

    Blame the low guy on the totem pole, hell that is the group you guys always love to target..blame for soaking welfare, for taking medicare and government handouts..yeah those guys.

    I on the other hand follow the money and if you did then you would realize that the ammt we blow on the little guy and equal housing is peanuts compared to the trillions of dollars made from the banks, lenders, agents, builders..

    It is similar to bending down to pick up a penny and allowing a suitcase full of hundred dollar bills fly over your head.

    The issue is positively not political, business owns our government, follow the money.
    Reply
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Ktrain,

    Fannie & Freddie made it clear to Wall Street that the MBS and those "Alt-A" loans had the implicit guarantee of the federal government.

    For example:

    Scott Simon was one of those buyers. He works in the mortgage department at Pimco, the world's largest bond manager, and one of the biggest buyers of Fannie and Freddie securities:

    "Fannie and Freddie in meetings with investors, whether it was us or anybody else, essentially just would sort of laugh and say, 'Well, you know the government will stand behind us,'" Simon says.

    --------
    In other words, federal housing policy instructed that "afforadble housing" was the goal. The "affordable housing" instrument was subprime mortgages. The federal government told these mortgage companies, "hey, if anything goes wrong, we'll be here to bail you out"

    In turn, a bunch of mortgage companies made loans to people who couldn't afford a house. When the borrowers defaulted, just as promised, the government bailed them out.

    And that is exactly what happened.


    We obviously have a huge difference of opinion on this.

    I dont think this was a "equal housing" issue at all, rather again..follow the money. Who stands to gain MOST from the backstop, answer..the corporations who are originating the loans, slicing and dicing the loans, the money trail leads from the corporation straight to congress.

    Blame the low guy on the totem pole, hell that is the group you guys always love to target..blame for soaking welfare, for taking medicare and government handouts..yeah those guys.

    I on the other hand follow the money and if you did then you would realize that the ammt we blow on the little guy and equal housing is peanuts compared to the trillions of dollars made from the banks, lenders, agents, builders..

    It is similar to bending down to pick up a penny and allowing a suitcase full of hundred dollar bills fly over your head.

    The issue is positively not political, business owns our government, follow the money.
     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2011 - 8:40 AM ET #120

    Name calling? I was simply using adjectives that describe you.



    I think you should keep telling yourself that. Really, I do.

    Reply
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    Name calling? I was simply using adjectives that describe you.



    I think you should keep telling yourself that. Really, I do.

     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posts: 9261
    Posted: Jul. 23, 2011 - 8:41 AM ET #121

    You blame the democrats, but when this was going down and they got bailed out who was president? Was he a democrat?

    Er, the Democrats controlled Congress and wrote the bailout legislation.

    That is a fact.

    Reply
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    You blame the democrats, but when this was going down and they got bailed out who was president? Was he a democrat?

    Er, the Democrats controlled Congress and wrote the bailout legislation.

    That is a fact.

     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Joined: Aug, 2005
    Posts: 9261
    Posted: Jul. 23, 2011 - 8:43 AM ET #122

    I dont think this was a "equal housing" issue at all

    Well, you're wrong. I can bog this server down with links to articles demonstrating that it was driven by "affordable housing" and I'm very unclear how you can even dispute it.

    Blame the low guy on the totem pole, hell that is the group you guys always love to target..blame for soaking welfare, for taking medicare and government handouts..yeah those guys.


    Actually, I'm blaming Barney Frank and Andrew Cuomo.


    Reply
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    I dont think this was a "equal housing" issue at all

    Well, you're wrong. I can bog this server down with links to articles demonstrating that it was driven by "affordable housing" and I'm very unclear how you can even dispute it.

    Blame the low guy on the totem pole, hell that is the group you guys always love to target..blame for soaking welfare, for taking medicare and government handouts..yeah those guys.


    Actually, I'm blaming Barney Frank and Andrew Cuomo.


     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posts: 9261
    Posted: Jul. 23, 2011 - 8:54 AM ET #123

    I on the other hand follow the money and if you did then you would realize that the ammt we blow on the little guy and equal housing is peanuts compared to the trillions of dollars made from the banks, lenders, agents, builders.

    Wallstreet,
    the banks, lenders, agents, and builders were simply supporting the "affordable housing" policies mandated by the federal government.

    For example:

    Fannie and Freddie "made no progress in civilizing the market," said Sandra Fostek, a senior regulator at HUD.

    William C. Apgar Jr., who was an assistant HUD secretary under Clinton, said he regrets allowing the companies to count subprime securities as affordable.

    And look what happened:

    Consumer advocates warned that lenders were trapping borrowers with low "teaser" interest rates and ignoring borrowers' qualifications. 

    OOPS!

    Thanks Barney!


    Reply
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    I on the other hand follow the money and if you did then you would realize that the ammt we blow on the little guy and equal housing is peanuts compared to the trillions of dollars made from the banks, lenders, agents, builders.

    Wallstreet,
    the banks, lenders, agents, and builders were simply supporting the "affordable housing" policies mandated by the federal government.

    For example:

    Fannie and Freddie "made no progress in civilizing the market," said Sandra Fostek, a senior regulator at HUD.

    William C. Apgar Jr., who was an assistant HUD secretary under Clinton, said he regrets allowing the companies to count subprime securities as affordable.

    And look what happened:

    Consumer advocates warned that lenders were trapping borrowers with low "teaser" interest rates and ignoring borrowers' qualifications. 

    OOPS!

    Thanks Barney!


     
    be easy
    be easy
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2011 - 9:01 AM ET #124

    14daroad, do freddie and fannie write mortgages all across the globe? Because once you realize that they don't, it kinda shoots a hole in your theory, seeing as how RE values around the globe bubbled, grinding the global economy to a hault as the majority of its participants either buried themselves in mortgage debt or were priced out of their respective markets creating a barrier to entry for everyone
    Reply
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    14daroad, do freddie and fannie write mortgages all across the globe? Because once you realize that they don't, it kinda shoots a hole in your theory, seeing as how RE values around the globe bubbled, grinding the global economy to a hault as the majority of its participants either buried themselves in mortgage debt or were priced out of their respective markets creating a barrier to entry for everyone
     
     
    TRAIN69
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2011 - 6:39 PM ET #125

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Name calling? I was simply using adjectives that describe you.



    I think you should keep telling yourself that. Really, I do.

    Just stating a fact.

    Reply
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    Name calling? I was simply using adjectives that describe you.



    I think you should keep telling yourself that. Really, I do.

    Just stating a fact.

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