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    All Forums | Politics

    President Obama Is Handing a Strong Economy to His Successor

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    djbrow
    sicknesscity
    shiek
    Killer_B
    wallstreetcappers
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    djbrow
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    Posted: Jan. 7, 2017 - 2:00 PM ET #26

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    I didnt take you as being one of the classless bashers, but maybe I am wrong?


    You're kidding right? The dude hasn't added anything of intellect to a conversation for about 8 years. There is a reason for that.

    The bottom line is the economy is better under Obama. No ifs, ands, or buts, and about it. 

    Now, we can go round and round about the reasons. The job report is the best its been since 2009. 
    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/president-obamas-economic-legacy-has-just-been-cemented-162815371.html


    Now, of course the right wingers will say that the indicators are skewed and of course they are. But remember, these are the same indicators that are used when 'R's are President (guess what right wingers, Trump will use the same ones) 

    Now, of course interest rates being kept artificially creates individual deficits but increases consumer spending, hence business improvements and jobs. 

    And when interest rates increase, so will the recession. But that doesn't change the current indicators. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    I didnt take you as being one of the classless bashers, but maybe I am wrong?


    You're kidding right? The dude hasn't added anything of intellect to a conversation for about 8 years. There is a reason for that.

    The bottom line is the economy is better under Obama. No ifs, ands, or buts, and about it. 

    Now, we can go round and round about the reasons. The job report is the best its been since 2009. 
    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/president-obamas-economic-legacy-has-just-been-cemented-162815371.html


    Now, of course the right wingers will say that the indicators are skewed and of course they are. But remember, these are the same indicators that are used when 'R's are President (guess what right wingers, Trump will use the same ones) 

    Now, of course interest rates being kept artificially creates individual deficits but increases consumer spending, hence business improvements and jobs. 

    And when interest rates increase, so will the recession. But that doesn't change the current indicators. 
     
    sicknesscity
    sicknesscity
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    Posted: Jan. 7, 2017 - 2:55 PM ET #27

    I already discussed this with my friend's mom since both of his parents are Republican and I wanted to explain my concerns but in a different way.  There's a narrative I haven't heard at all from any news network or talk radio or quite frankly anything.  That narrative is that businesses changed their models to recover from the recession in 2008 by consolidating, eliminating most entry-level jobs, increasing responsibility for individual employees and reducing the number of employees at their businesses. 

    The reason I believe that's important is that if we have another recession, businesses won't be able to take those measures to recover because tightening up and delegating more tasks to employees to handle individually won't work.  They won't be able to do that again and they'll need another approach to make their businesses viable.  My friend's mom is confident businesses will just find a way to make it work but I'm fairly skeptical about it.
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    I already discussed this with my friend's mom since both of his parents are Republican and I wanted to explain my concerns but in a different way.  There's a narrative I haven't heard at all from any news network or talk radio or quite frankly anything.  That narrative is that businesses changed their models to recover from the recession in 2008 by consolidating, eliminating most entry-level jobs, increasing responsibility for individual employees and reducing the number of employees at their businesses. 

    The reason I believe that's important is that if we have another recession, businesses won't be able to take those measures to recover because tightening up and delegating more tasks to employees to handle individually won't work.  They won't be able to do that again and they'll need another approach to make their businesses viable.  My friend's mom is confident businesses will just find a way to make it work but I'm fairly skeptical about it.
     
    shiek
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    Posted: Jan. 7, 2017 - 8:27 PM ET #28

    To even claim to address the economic performance of any president without even addressing far and away the most critical issue is well.........    our debt began skyrocketing under Bush and then doubled under Obama.    Obama understood how critical it was because he called bush unpatriotic.   He then set up a panel to address it but basically didn't follow through.  His handling of the debt, as well as Bushes, means he failed economically.   
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    To even claim to address the economic performance of any president without even addressing far and away the most critical issue is well.........    our debt began skyrocketing under Bush and then doubled under Obama.    Obama understood how critical it was because he called bush unpatriotic.   He then set up a panel to address it but basically didn't follow through.  His handling of the debt, as well as Bushes, means he failed economically.   
     
    Killer_B
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    Posted: Jan. 7, 2017 - 11:29 PM ET #29

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:


    It's not a referendum on Obama

    Republicans have been sowing the seeds of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt to win elections.

    Gerrymandering is the practice of dividing election districts to give special advantages to one group and usually to give one political party an electoral majority in a large number of districts while concentrating the opposition’s voting strength in the fewest districts possible. This is done by manipulating the geographic boundaries of electoral districts to create partisan, incumbent-protected districts.

    in 2012 congressional elections, Democrats  won a majority of the House vote—roughly 51%—while falling a full 17 seats short of a majority

    There is a discrepancy between the winner by votes and the winner by seats. that does not make sense 

    Congress has an approval rating of 14%
    Obama 47%

    Fox News Poll: Positive ratings for President Obama as he exits

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/15/fox-news-poll-positive-ratings-for-president-obama-as-exits.html




    Nothing stuck to him. "Exits" is the key word here. For 8 years of Bush and then 8 more of 0 everything was Bush's fault. The MSM did a wonderful job of covering for our first EOE president. 2,000 assault rifles to Mexican cartels - no problem... And it went on and on... I bet you believe that poll like you believed the one that said the witch was going to win in a landslide...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:


    It's not a referendum on Obama

    Republicans have been sowing the seeds of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt to win elections.

    Gerrymandering is the practice of dividing election districts to give special advantages to one group and usually to give one political party an electoral majority in a large number of districts while concentrating the opposition’s voting strength in the fewest districts possible. This is done by manipulating the geographic boundaries of electoral districts to create partisan, incumbent-protected districts.

    in 2012 congressional elections, Democrats  won a majority of the House vote—roughly 51%—while falling a full 17 seats short of a majority

    There is a discrepancy between the winner by votes and the winner by seats. that does not make sense 

    Congress has an approval rating of 14%
    Obama 47%

    Fox News Poll: Positive ratings for President Obama as he exits

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/15/fox-news-poll-positive-ratings-for-president-obama-as-exits.html




    Nothing stuck to him. "Exits" is the key word here. For 8 years of Bush and then 8 more of 0 everything was Bush's fault. The MSM did a wonderful job of covering for our first EOE president. 2,000 assault rifles to Mexican cartels - no problem... And it went on and on... I bet you believe that poll like you believed the one that said the witch was going to win in a landslide...
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jan. 7, 2017 - 11:31 PM ET #30

    dj,

    I guess I have not seen the abhorrent crap from him like so many other right wing posters here. To me he isnt even in the top 5 for the insults and personal attacks, but maybe that is because I have not experienced things that you have.

    I think the economy is better now than 2008, for sure that is a gimmie but I dont see the economy as strong now..hourly earnings have been in the crapper for a long long time, the numbers out of the hunt have been super high for a long time, corporations are more focused on short term bonus engineering via stock buybacks using debt and paying dividends with debt that investing in the future of the business seems secondary and it seems less and less people are prepared financially for the future. Those issues make me super bearish on the economy.

    Oh and banks/hedgies have been hyper leveraged in buying government bonds and making a decent spread between fed funds rates and a 3x-5x leverage on a 3% safe dividend yield. The problem is those holdings are going DOWN in value as rates go up...nobody is talking about the balance sheet hit these guys are taking on all the debt they own and how much money will be lost if rates keep going up (which I expect they will). Nobody seems to even properly factor in China and their huge problems, emerging markets are shaky, Canada is not so great with their real estate markets teetering and oil still low like this.

    I dont see much positive out there...but until someone has to take the leveraged hit and the markets freeze up I guess it can keep going.
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    dj,

    I guess I have not seen the abhorrent crap from him like so many other right wing posters here. To me he isnt even in the top 5 for the insults and personal attacks, but maybe that is because I have not experienced things that you have.

    I think the economy is better now than 2008, for sure that is a gimmie but I dont see the economy as strong now..hourly earnings have been in the crapper for a long long time, the numbers out of the hunt have been super high for a long time, corporations are more focused on short term bonus engineering via stock buybacks using debt and paying dividends with debt that investing in the future of the business seems secondary and it seems less and less people are prepared financially for the future. Those issues make me super bearish on the economy.

    Oh and banks/hedgies have been hyper leveraged in buying government bonds and making a decent spread between fed funds rates and a 3x-5x leverage on a 3% safe dividend yield. The problem is those holdings are going DOWN in value as rates go up...nobody is talking about the balance sheet hit these guys are taking on all the debt they own and how much money will be lost if rates keep going up (which I expect they will). Nobody seems to even properly factor in China and their huge problems, emerging markets are shaky, Canada is not so great with their real estate markets teetering and oil still low like this.

    I dont see much positive out there...but until someone has to take the leveraged hit and the markets freeze up I guess it can keep going.
     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Jan. 7, 2017 - 11:48 PM ET #31

    Quote Originally Posted by shiek:

    To even claim to address the economic performance of any president without even addressing far and away the most critical issue is well.........    our debt began skyrocketing under Bush and then doubled under Obama.    Obama understood how critical it was because he called bush unpatriotic.   He then set up a panel to address it but basically didn't follow through.  His handling of the debt, as well as Bushes, means he failed economically.   


    that article i posted addresses it, among other things. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiek:

    To even claim to address the economic performance of any president without even addressing far and away the most critical issue is well.........    our debt began skyrocketing under Bush and then doubled under Obama.    Obama understood how critical it was because he called bush unpatriotic.   He then set up a panel to address it but basically didn't follow through.  His handling of the debt, as well as Bushes, means he failed economically.   


    that article i posted addresses it, among other things. 
     
    shiek
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    Posted: Jan. 8, 2017 - 12:28 AM ET #32

    I was addressing the OP particularly and then generally how both sides merely regurgitate the talking points of their side without even addressing the other side (i.e. In this case the alleged glaring weaknesses).   Also, not to split hairs but the article rates him as average at best and 8 out of last 12.   The article also provides little in details or causality.    To further my point, why didn't Obama get a deal on the debt.   That to me would be the most important evaluation metric rather than using the performance of the stock market which a president generally has very little control over.  In obamas case, you could argue that it should be held against him because the entire basis of his presidency was to allow joe the plumber and the rest of us commoners share in the wealth.  Yet, during his tenure the divergence between rich and poor is at all time highs.  Is that a success.
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    I was addressing the OP particularly and then generally how both sides merely regurgitate the talking points of their side without even addressing the other side (i.e. In this case the alleged glaring weaknesses).   Also, not to split hairs but the article rates him as average at best and 8 out of last 12.   The article also provides little in details or causality.    To further my point, why didn't Obama get a deal on the debt.   That to me would be the most important evaluation metric rather than using the performance of the stock market which a president generally has very little control over.  In obamas case, you could argue that it should be held against him because the entire basis of his presidency was to allow joe the plumber and the rest of us commoners share in the wealth.  Yet, during his tenure the divergence between rich and poor is at all time highs.  Is that a success.
     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Jan. 8, 2017 - 10:42 AM ET #33

    Quote Originally Posted by shiek:

    I was addressing the OP particularly and then generally how both sides merely regurgitate the talking points of their side without even addressing the other side (i.e. In this case the alleged glaring weaknesses).   Also, not to split hairs but the article rates him as average at best and 8 out of last 12.   The article also provides little in details or causality.    To further my point, why didn't Obama get a deal on the debt.   That to me would be the most important evaluation metric rather than using the performance of the stock market which a president generally has very little control over.  In obamas case, you could argue that it should be held against him because the entire basis of his presidency was to allow joe the plumber and the rest of us commoners share in the wealth.  Yet, during his tenure the divergence between rich and poor is at all time highs.  Is that a success.


    i know but the article is what it purports to be, i think.  on objective opinion of where obama rates among recent presidents and the current state of the economy without detailed analysis which is mainly just to give people a perspective on trump's starting point, which fit in with the original post.

    incidentally, i went to a party last night and sat with a very intelligent accountant.  he actually went to wharton and graduated, unlike some people who went to wharton undergrad program for a few years, struggled and didn't graduate. 

    anyway, he was talking about how trump wants to cut the tax rate for the top bracket with no plan to make up that loss elsewhere which will be a disaster for the country's bottom line and the next president will have to try and clean it up (he said with huge tax increases if anyone could ever get that through).  that plan sound slike a previous republican president and a previous very expensive war that was not paid for that i can think of. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiek:

    I was addressing the OP particularly and then generally how both sides merely regurgitate the talking points of their side without even addressing the other side (i.e. In this case the alleged glaring weaknesses).   Also, not to split hairs but the article rates him as average at best and 8 out of last 12.   The article also provides little in details or causality.    To further my point, why didn't Obama get a deal on the debt.   That to me would be the most important evaluation metric rather than using the performance of the stock market which a president generally has very little control over.  In obamas case, you could argue that it should be held against him because the entire basis of his presidency was to allow joe the plumber and the rest of us commoners share in the wealth.  Yet, during his tenure the divergence between rich and poor is at all time highs.  Is that a success.


    i know but the article is what it purports to be, i think.  on objective opinion of where obama rates among recent presidents and the current state of the economy without detailed analysis which is mainly just to give people a perspective on trump's starting point, which fit in with the original post.

    incidentally, i went to a party last night and sat with a very intelligent accountant.  he actually went to wharton and graduated, unlike some people who went to wharton undergrad program for a few years, struggled and didn't graduate. 

    anyway, he was talking about how trump wants to cut the tax rate for the top bracket with no plan to make up that loss elsewhere which will be a disaster for the country's bottom line and the next president will have to try and clean it up (he said with huge tax increases if anyone could ever get that through).  that plan sound slike a previous republican president and a previous very expensive war that was not paid for that i can think of. 
     
    djbrow
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    Posted: Jan. 8, 2017 - 12:52 PM ET #34

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    dj,

    I guess I have not seen the abhorrent crap from him like so many other right wing posters here. To me he isnt even in the top 5 for the insults and personal attacks, but maybe that is because I have not experienced things that you have.

    I think the economy is better now than 2008, for sure that is a gimmie but I dont see the economy as strong now..hourly earnings have been in the crapper for a long long time, the numbers out of the hunt have been super high for a long time, corporations are more focused on short term bonus engineering via stock buybacks using debt and paying dividends with debt that investing in the future of the business seems secondary and it seems less and less people are prepared financially for the future. Those issues make me super bearish on the economy.

    Oh and banks/hedgies have been hyper leveraged in buying government bonds and making a decent spread between fed funds rates and a 3x-5x leverage on a 3% safe dividend yield. The problem is those holdings are going DOWN in value as rates go up...nobody is talking about the balance sheet hit these guys are taking on all the debt they own and how much money will be lost if rates keep going up (which I expect they will). Nobody seems to even properly factor in China and their huge problems, emerging markets are shaky, Canada is not so great with their real estate markets teetering and oil still low like this.

    I dont see much positive out there...but until someone has to take the leveraged hit and the markets freeze up I guess it can keep going.

    Agree with all you said here. As you alluded to and Shiek as well, our current economy is built on the back of credit meaning at a certain time, we will have to face the music of higher interest rates and less economic activity from an individual and governmental sense. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    dj,

    I guess I have not seen the abhorrent crap from him like so many other right wing posters here. To me he isnt even in the top 5 for the insults and personal attacks, but maybe that is because I have not experienced things that you have.

    I think the economy is better now than 2008, for sure that is a gimmie but I dont see the economy as strong now..hourly earnings have been in the crapper for a long long time, the numbers out of the hunt have been super high for a long time, corporations are more focused on short term bonus engineering via stock buybacks using debt and paying dividends with debt that investing in the future of the business seems secondary and it seems less and less people are prepared financially for the future. Those issues make me super bearish on the economy.

    Oh and banks/hedgies have been hyper leveraged in buying government bonds and making a decent spread between fed funds rates and a 3x-5x leverage on a 3% safe dividend yield. The problem is those holdings are going DOWN in value as rates go up...nobody is talking about the balance sheet hit these guys are taking on all the debt they own and how much money will be lost if rates keep going up (which I expect they will). Nobody seems to even properly factor in China and their huge problems, emerging markets are shaky, Canada is not so great with their real estate markets teetering and oil still low like this.

    I dont see much positive out there...but until someone has to take the leveraged hit and the markets freeze up I guess it can keep going.

    Agree with all you said here. As you alluded to and Shiek as well, our current economy is built on the back of credit meaning at a certain time, we will have to face the music of higher interest rates and less economic activity from an individual and governmental sense. 
     
    shiek
    shiek
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    Posted: Jan. 8, 2017 - 2:23 PM ET #35

    I'm no trump guy but I at least give him credit for addressing the debt issue.  Not once did I hear a democratic candidate even mention it during their debates, which shows how out of touch they r.  The last I heard each families share of the debt was 150,000, which I don't know bout y'all but I don't have.   Just like the health care while I didn't agree w obamas solution I give him credit for at least trying while the Repub just sat there w their thumbs up their arses telling people to rely on charity.

    I agree in a vacuum cutting taxes is problematic but taken as a part of an entire plan to reduce debt (i.e. Overall tax reform including closing all loopholes), may have a chance.   Ironically, in the article, 2 of the higher rated presidents, Kennedy and Reagan, were noted tax cutters.  Enjoyed reading the articles btw
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    I'm no trump guy but I at least give him credit for addressing the debt issue.  Not once did I hear a democratic candidate even mention it during their debates, which shows how out of touch they r.  The last I heard each families share of the debt was 150,000, which I don't know bout y'all but I don't have.   Just like the health care while I didn't agree w obamas solution I give him credit for at least trying while the Repub just sat there w their thumbs up their arses telling people to rely on charity.

    I agree in a vacuum cutting taxes is problematic but taken as a part of an entire plan to reduce debt (i.e. Overall tax reform including closing all loopholes), may have a chance.   Ironically, in the article, 2 of the higher rated presidents, Kennedy and Reagan, were noted tax cutters.  Enjoyed reading the articles btw
     
    ilsp2003
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Jan. 8, 2017 - 2:59 PM ET #36

    when Obama was inaugurated on 20-January-2009, Debt held by the public and intragovernemental debt) was 10.3 trillions dollars ( not sure if this includes the Iraq fiasco)
    Roughly 4 trillions public debt and 6 Trillions dollars federal debt

    The Debt Held by the Public is all federal debt held by individuals, corporations, state or local governments, Federal Reserve Banks, foreign governments, and other entities outside the United States Government less Federal Financing Bank securities.

    According to https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

    as of 05-January-2017, 

    Debt held by the public : 14,428,038,035,922.01

    Intragovernmental Holdings : 5,520,434,952,413.18

    Total Debt: 19,948,472,988,335.19

    Debt held by the public has increased by about 74%  (up from 40% in 2008)

    Money needed to be spent when the economy was in a free fall

    to tackle the debt, government needs revenues, which were falling due to tax cuts, falling incomes, unemployment

    Government needed money to cover unemployment benefits,medicaid ..etc)

    balancing the budget was not a priority when Obama took over in 2009

    why? because there would have been a depression IF nothing was done to stop the downturn


    what has the Republican-controlled House of Representatives (since 2010) done to address the deficit ?

    It's easy to blame Obama but Congress—and in particular, the House of Representatives—is invested with the “power of the purse,” the ability to tax and spend public money for the national government. 

    Countless Benghazi hearings, birther issue, government shutdown, happy marriage..etc 

     



    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction,[1] colloquially referred to as the Supercommittee, was a joint select committee of the United States Congress, created by the Budget Control Act of 2011 on August 2, 2011. This act was intended to prevent the sovereign default that could have resulted from the 2011 United States debt-ceiling crisis. The objective of the committee was to develop a deficit reduction plan over 10 years in addition to the $917 billion of cuts and initial debt limit increase of $900 billion in the Budget Control Act of 2011 that avoided a U.S. sovereign default. The committee recommendation was to have been subject to a simple vote by the full legislative bodies without amendment; this extraordinary provision was included to limit partisan gridlock.[2] The goal outlined in the Budget Control Act of 2011 was to cut at least $1.5 trillion over the coming 10 years, (avoiding much larger "sequestration" across-the-board cuts which would be equal to the debt ceiling increase of $1.2 trillion incurred by Congress through a failure to produce a deficit reduction bill), therefore bypassing Congressional debate and resulting in a passed bill by December 23, 2011.[3] On November 21, the committee concluded its work, issuing a statement that began with the following: "After months of hard work and intense deliberations, we have come to the conclusion today that it will not be possible to make any bipartisan agreement available to the public before the committee’s deadline."[4] The committee was formally terminated on January 31, 2012.[5] 

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    when Obama was inaugurated on 20-January-2009, Debt held by the public and intragovernemental debt) was 10.3 trillions dollars ( not sure if this includes the Iraq fiasco)
    Roughly 4 trillions public debt and 6 Trillions dollars federal debt

    The Debt Held by the Public is all federal debt held by individuals, corporations, state or local governments, Federal Reserve Banks, foreign governments, and other entities outside the United States Government less Federal Financing Bank securities.

    According to https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

    as of 05-January-2017, 

    Debt held by the public : 14,428,038,035,922.01

    Intragovernmental Holdings : 5,520,434,952,413.18

    Total Debt: 19,948,472,988,335.19

    Debt held by the public has increased by about 74%  (up from 40% in 2008)

    Money needed to be spent when the economy was in a free fall

    to tackle the debt, government needs revenues, which were falling due to tax cuts, falling incomes, unemployment

    Government needed money to cover unemployment benefits,medicaid ..etc)

    balancing the budget was not a priority when Obama took over in 2009

    why? because there would have been a depression IF nothing was done to stop the downturn


    what has the Republican-controlled House of Representatives (since 2010) done to address the deficit ?

    It's easy to blame Obama but Congress—and in particular, the House of Representatives—is invested with the “power of the purse,” the ability to tax and spend public money for the national government. 

    Countless Benghazi hearings, birther issue, government shutdown, happy marriage..etc 

     



    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction,[1] colloquially referred to as the Supercommittee, was a joint select committee of the United States Congress, created by the Budget Control Act of 2011 on August 2, 2011. This act was intended to prevent the sovereign default that could have resulted from the 2011 United States debt-ceiling crisis. The objective of the committee was to develop a deficit reduction plan over 10 years in addition to the $917 billion of cuts and initial debt limit increase of $900 billion in the Budget Control Act of 2011 that avoided a U.S. sovereign default. The committee recommendation was to have been subject to a simple vote by the full legislative bodies without amendment; this extraordinary provision was included to limit partisan gridlock.[2] The goal outlined in the Budget Control Act of 2011 was to cut at least $1.5 trillion over the coming 10 years, (avoiding much larger "sequestration" across-the-board cuts which would be equal to the debt ceiling increase of $1.2 trillion incurred by Congress through a failure to produce a deficit reduction bill), therefore bypassing Congressional debate and resulting in a passed bill by December 23, 2011.[3] On November 21, the committee concluded its work, issuing a statement that began with the following: "After months of hard work and intense deliberations, we have come to the conclusion today that it will not be possible to make any bipartisan agreement available to the public before the committee’s deadline."[4] The committee was formally terminated on January 31, 2012.[5] 

     
    shiek
    shiek
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    Posted: Jan. 8, 2017 - 3:14 PM ET #37

    What  bout Simpson Bowles    Repubs certainly weren't a help but as I recall at least 1 author claiming it was obama who sabotaged the deal.   And this narrative excuse about the Repubs fighting him.  Give me a break that's is what leadership is all about.   Go back and listen to the LBJ tapes and listen to how he got the civil rights bill thru or people to serve on Warren commission.   That is the biggest problem I've seen w Obama.   He had the chance to make it a purple nation but from my perspective was just as divisive as dubbya.  He has demonized every opponent on every issue.   I'm a business/investor guy and while certainly Wall Street was responsible for 2008, to demonize Wall Street at every turn (as obama and Clinton did) is counterproductive and disregards the notion that, like it or not, Wall Street is a foundation of the country.
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    What  bout Simpson Bowles    Repubs certainly weren't a help but as I recall at least 1 author claiming it was obama who sabotaged the deal.   And this narrative excuse about the Repubs fighting him.  Give me a break that's is what leadership is all about.   Go back and listen to the LBJ tapes and listen to how he got the civil rights bill thru or people to serve on Warren commission.   That is the biggest problem I've seen w Obama.   He had the chance to make it a purple nation but from my perspective was just as divisive as dubbya.  He has demonized every opponent on every issue.   I'm a business/investor guy and while certainly Wall Street was responsible for 2008, to demonize Wall Street at every turn (as obama and Clinton did) is counterproductive and disregards the notion that, like it or not, Wall Street is a foundation of the country.
     
    ilsp2003
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Jan. 8, 2017 - 3:30 PM ET #38

    Paul Ryan voted against Simpson-Bowles

    so did Dave Camp and Jeb Hensarling, the other two House Republicans on the commission.

    Democrats Xavier Becerra and Jan Schakowsky voted against Simpson-Bowles

    Democrat  John Spratt voted for it

    Simpson-Bowles went down 382-38.
    The modified version of Simpson-Bowles to the floor by Jim Cooper and Steve LaTourette did not do better because it contained smaller tax increases and smaller defense cuts 


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    Paul Ryan voted against Simpson-Bowles

    so did Dave Camp and Jeb Hensarling, the other two House Republicans on the commission.

    Democrats Xavier Becerra and Jan Schakowsky voted against Simpson-Bowles

    Democrat  John Spratt voted for it

    Simpson-Bowles went down 382-38.
    The modified version of Simpson-Bowles to the floor by Jim Cooper and Steve LaTourette did not do better because it contained smaller tax increases and smaller defense cuts 


     
     
    shiek
    shiek
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    Posted: Jan. 8, 2017 - 3:43 PM ET #39

    Yeah sorry my memory is not as good as it use to be I'm talking bout the follow up to Simpson Bowles and the debt deal negotiations w boehner and obama.   According to Woodward boehner had already gone as far as the tea party would allow and obama effectively blew up the deal by throwing in additional taxes at the last minute.   Also, Simpson Bowles was merely the foundation that lead to the critical budget negotiations that never resulted in anything
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    Yeah sorry my memory is not as good as it use to be I'm talking bout the follow up to Simpson Bowles and the debt deal negotiations w boehner and obama.   According to Woodward boehner had already gone as far as the tea party would allow and obama effectively blew up the deal by throwing in additional taxes at the last minute.   Also, Simpson Bowles was merely the foundation that lead to the critical budget negotiations that never resulted in anything
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