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Prospect
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Posted: #26
Quote Originally Posted by UberDog:

So why is this quote from an anonymous source in the Czech Republic?

Maybe because the source is a radical Muslim upset we got OBL?

If you have to go overseas to find criticisms to validate your position, then maybe you should just leave and go join them.

Have fun. I hear Prague is a nice in the spring. 

A quick search of the quote revealed that it has been around since at least June 1st of 2010.  link  So, you are wrong with your assessment.  The part about the vast confederacy of fools hit too close to home, methinks.

 
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Posted: #27
Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

Maybe.

More likely you're a fake military guy since the real militiary people I know are pretty happy.




 
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Posted: #28
Quote Originally Posted by cashin:

 

And Bush/Cheney are so far ahead they make the vastly overrated & over-glorified Reagan admin look saintly



correct

Obama could cure cancer and half of these clowns will bitch about it. The other half will declare he didn't do it, but those pulling the strings decided it was time to release the cure for cancer
 
Captain
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Posted: #29
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 
Captain
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Posted: #30
Whatever Obama lies you refer to are mere child's play compared to the lies & deception of the Bush admin.

You can't name any "lies" of the Bush Administration.

I find it rather comical that the Obama supporters can't explain, rationalize, or defend the LightBringer's actions, rather they just shout "Bush"!

Telling.
 
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Posted: #31
$4/gal gas, I guess that's Bush's fault too.
 
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Posted: #32
Quote Originally Posted by ApacheM:

$4/gal gas, I guess that's Bush's fault too.


And so it is all Obama's fault
Gas was not cheap under Bush either
 
Prospect
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Posted: #33
Quote Originally Posted by cashin:

That description perfectly fits Bush/Cheney & their admin. In my opinion, the most corrupt, secretive & overall damaging admin this country has ever seen 

I've been a lttle disappointed with some things about Obama & I don't see him as a strong leader with the backbone & courage of his convictions (which folks on the right oughta be glad about), but then I didn't expect a whole lot more & he came in with huge problems on all fronts that no Prez could have rectified.



What specific evidence of corruption of the Bush administration do you base your statement on?

What specific evidence of secret actions of the Bush administration do you base your statement on?

What specific actions of the Bush administration were "overall damaging"?
 
Prospect
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Posted: #34
Quote Originally Posted by Hirschfelder:



correct

Obama could cure cancer and half of these clowns will bitch about it. The other half will declare he didn't do it, but those pulling the strings decided it was time to release the cure for cancer


Obama could not spell cancer, let alone cure it.
 
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Posted: #35
Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:



And so it is all Obama's fault
Gas was not cheap under Bush either


1.  Obama has made it absolutely impossible for America to develop its vast oil reserves. 

2.  The ethanol program rewards producers of ethanol from CORN instead of from sugar cane.  HUH?  Ethanol can be produced from sugar cane for roughly $1 a gallon, but with current manipulation by a few US Senators large scale ethanol production from sugar cane has been totally blocked.  Imports of both sugar cane and ethanol made from sugar cane are pretty much illegal.  And Obama has done what about this?  NOTHING. 

3.  Setting up large numbers of liquefied natural gas stations along US interstates, as proposed by many people, so that large trucks could switch from diesel to liquefied natural gas not only has not been pursued by the Obama administration but the environmentalist fascists have made it quite clear that they will file lawsuits to block such development.  And Obama backs the environmental fascists in lockstep.

4.  America invented the technology used by the Germans in WWII to produce gasoline from coal.  The US has vast coal reserves, but we have no coal to gasoline production facilities.  Why is this? Oh, I forgot, the environmental fascists have pretty much made it impossible to build such a facility in the US.

5.  Europe has been producing a diesel engine which gets over 50 miles per gallon for many years.  Over 50% of automobiles sold in Europe are diesel powered.  This engine is ILLEGAL in the United States.  Let me repeat that one, because I did not believe it either.  The highly efficient diesel engine, getting over 50 miles per gallon, is ILLEGAL in the United States.  Volkswagen sent teams to both Congress and the White House trying to get their diesel engine made legal for the United States, and they failed.  HUH?  This makes absolutely no sense.

Why is it that our own government is making it impossible for us to get off of imported oil?  Can a pro-Obama person explain this to me?

I could go on and on with examples like this but I will give the pro-Obama crowd a chance to respond to the ones I have listed above.

Oh, I am not a Republican and I absolutely detest the Bush family, so your "Bush did it" propaganda won't work on me.  You have to actually address the issues I am raising.

Here are the questions we need answers to, that go along with the issues that I listed above.

1.  Why did the Obama administration basically forbid oil production on federal land, in all areas designated "refuge", and off shore?  This pretty much has stopped our domestic oil development in areas where it is not already ongoing on private land.

2.  Why is Obama allowing  a couple of Senators to keep sugar cane ethanol production or the importation of either sugar cane or ethanol made from sugar cane basically illegal?

3.  Why has the Obama administration done nothing to get large trucks switched over to run on liquefied natural gas as has been proposed by many people for many years?  I guess they want to run large trucks on batteries or something equally ignorant.

4.  Why is the US not using the technology that we created, which the Germans proved works well, to convert coal into gasoline, thus reducing our dependency on our enemies for oil?

5.  Why is the excellent diesel engine that is used all over Europe and gets over 50 miles per gallon illegal in the US?  Volkswagen offered to build factories in the US to build the engine and share it with any company that wants to buy the engine for cars in the US.

Can you answer these questions for us please, Obama lovers?
 
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Posted: #36
Quote Originally Posted by curiousone:



1.  Obama has made it absolutely impossible for America to develop its vast oil reserves. 

2.  The ethanol program rewards producers of ethanol from CORN instead of from sugar cane.  HUH?  Ethanol can be produced from sugar cane for roughly $1 a gallon, but with current manipulation by a few US Senators large scale ethanol production from sugar cane has been totally blocked.  Imports of both sugar cane and ethanol made from sugar cane are pretty much illegal.  And Obama has done what about this?  NOTHING. 

3.  Setting up large numbers of liquefied natural gas stations along US interstates, as proposed by many people, so that large trucks could switch from diesel to liquefied natural gas not only has not been pursued by the Obama administration but the environmentalist fascists have made it quite clear that they will file lawsuits to block such development.  And Obama backs the environmental fascists in lockstep.

4.  America invented the technology used by the Germans in WWII to produce gasoline from coal.  The US has vast coal reserves, but we have no coal to gasoline production facilities.  Why is this? Oh, I forgot, the environmental fascists have pretty much made it impossible to build such a facility in the US.

5.  Europe has been producing a diesel engine which gets over 50 miles per gallon for many years.  Over 50% of automobiles sold in Europe are diesel powered.  This engine is ILLEGAL in the United States.  Let me repeat that one, because I did not believe it either.  The highly efficient diesel engine, getting over 50 miles per gallon, is ILLEGAL in the United States.  Volkswagen sent teams to both Congress and the White House trying to get their diesel engine made legal for the United States, and they failed.  HUH?  This makes absolutely no sense.

Why is it that our own government is making it impossible for us to get off of imported oil?  Can a pro-Obama person explain this to me?

I could go on and on with examples like this but I will give the pro-Obama crowd a chance to respond to the ones I have listed above.

Oh, I am not a Republican and I absolutely detest the Bush family, so your "Bush did it" propaganda won't work on me.  You have to actually address the issues I am raising.

Here are the questions we need answers to, that go along with the issues that I listed above.

1.  Why did the Obama administration basically forbid oil production on federal land, in all areas designated "refuge", and off shore?  This pretty much has stopped our domestic oil development in areas where it is not already ongoing on private land.

2.  Why is Obama allowing  a couple of Senators to keep sugar cane ethanol production or the importation of either sugar cane or ethanol made from sugar cane basically illegal?

3.  Why has the Obama administration done nothing to get large trucks switched over to run on liquefied natural gas as has been proposed by many people for many years?  I guess they want to run large trucks on batteries or something equally ignorant.

4.  Why is the US not using the technology that we created, which the Germans proved works well, to convert coal into gasoline, thus reducing our dependency on our enemies for oil?

5.  Why is the excellent diesel engine that is used all over Europe and gets over 50 miles per gallon illegal in the US?  Volkswagen offered to build factories in the US to build the engine and share it with any company that wants to buy the engine for cars in the US.

Can you answer these questions for us please, Obama lovers?


Obama sucks too, OK? 

But virtually everything you ask/question etc. started before obama.

Obama sucks too, but all this has been going on for decades.


 
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Posted: #37
Quote Originally Posted by ApacheM:

$4/gal gas, I guess that's Bush's fault too.


Apache, you are a smart dude, are you saying it's obama's fault?  Really?  You think obama has anything to do with the price of gas?
 
Captain
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Posted: #38
Quote Originally Posted by UberDog:

So why is this quote from an anonymous source in the Czech Republic?

Maybe because the source is a radical Muslim upset we got OBL?

If you have to go overseas to find criticisms to validate your position, then maybe you should just leave and go join them.

Have fun. I hear Prague is a nice in the spring. 

 


Here we go again, and you wonder why no one listens to you. 

Opinions based in reality would be a start. 


I understand your irritation though, the author was speaking about you and he couldn't of been more correct.  Too funny

You think this is bad? Just wait till the history books get their shot at you and your ilk




 
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Posted: #39
Lay the blame where it deserves, if anyone took the opportunity and demolished it, Reagan is the guilty party.

Whatever items listed in post 35 were ever to be developed, it would take a DECADE before it impacted oil prices because it takes a very long time to fund, build and implement large scale changes like LNG or converting vehicles to a new diesel engine, or exploring and developing domestic oil fields.

We had OPEC by the throat when Carter was in office, Reagan not only dropped the ball, but completely destroyed our only real chance at any "change".

If you want these things to develop, get the free markets OUT of government..remove the lobby groups, stop campaign contributions and you will see new ideas come and real change to occur.


 
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Posted: #40
Gas was not cheap under Bush either

It was never this high.

It also wasn't a stated goal of President Bush to have energy prices rise.

Here is Obama's Energy Secretary:

Mr. Chu has called for gradually ramping up gasoline taxes over 15 years to coax consumers into buying more-efficient cars and living in neighborhoods closer to work.

“Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe,” Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September.

----------

Here is Obama's view on the matter:

When I was asked earlier about the issue of coal…under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket…even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad, because I’m capping greenhouse gasses, coal power plants, natural gas…you name it…whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retro-fit their operations.

That will cost money…they will pass that money on to the consumers.

----------------

Pretending there is some correlation between Obama and Bush on these issues is dishonest.

PS, gas was under $2/gallon in Nov 2008.
 
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Posted: #41
You think obama has anything to do with the price of gas?

Yes.

It is a stated goal of his Administration to increase the cost of energy.

Additionally,  the reason it is fair to blame Obama for the spike in gas prices is:

1. He ordered the military action in Libya which is affecting oil prices
2. He ordered the ban of domestic off-shore drilling which affects oil output (oil production in the Gulf is down more than 10% from April 2010 estimates)
3. He has not called for a cut in gasoline taxes
4. He is not in favor of any US domestic drilling, new refineries, new nuclear plants (which could reduce demand on petroleum) etc.

Funny how when Bush was the President the rise in gasoline represented Bush enriching his oil buddies but under Obama it is____?

Why do people like you pretend Obama is not influencing the price of gasoline?
 
Prospect
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Posted: #42
Quote Originally Posted by ruffcutter2006:



Obama sucks too, OK? 

But virtually everything you ask/question etc. started before obama.

Obama sucks too, but all this has been going on for decades.




I hated the Bush family too, blame them if you want, but Obama has done NOTHING to solve any of our energy problems. 

Obama is president now, he could fix all the issues that I brought up, most of them without even involving the Congress.  So, why doesn't he do so?
 
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Posted: #43
People forget I guess...gas was higher during Bush, crude was much higher than it was now under Bush.

What is most interesting though, demand during Bush was higher due to the artificial pump we were involved in during that time..the current price of gas has literally nothing to do with actual demand, rather commodity manipulation has created our current price structure.

I hope they raise the hell out of crude and unleaded futures contracts..pop that bubble already.


 
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Posted: #44
Quote Originally Posted by UberDog:

So why is this quote from an anonymous source in the Czech Republic?

Maybe because the source is a radical Muslim upset we got OBL?

If you have to go overseas to find criticisms to validate your position, then maybe you should just leave and go join them.

Have fun. I hear Prague is a nice in the spring. 

 

  Acting like obama is some huge departure from previous presidents is ridiculous.  He is pretty much carrying out the same core policies as every president in the past 50 years- expanding the federal gov't at home and military adventurism overseas.  All the trivial "wedge issues" and repub/dem name calling is just a sideshow.  We really have only one party, the corporate party, and it doesn't represent you.

 
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Posted: #45
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

Lay the blame where it deserves, if anyone took the opportunity and demolished it, Reagan is the guilty party.

Whatever items listed in post 35 were ever to be developed, it would take a DECADE before it impacted oil prices because it takes a very long time to fund, build and implement large scale changes like LNG or converting vehicles to a new diesel engine, or exploring and developing domestic oil fields.

We had OPEC by the throat when Carter was in office, Reagan not only dropped the ball, but completely destroyed our only real chance at any "change".

If you want these things to develop, get the free markets OUT of government..remove the lobby groups, stop campaign contributions and you will see new ideas come and real change to occur.




And you have no idea what you are talking about.   You are 0 for 5 on your idea that it will take ten years to get all these technologies to market.

I will address these one by one:

1.  Obama has made it impossible to develop our vast oil resources.  -  The barriers can be lifted with the stroke of a pen.  There are capped oil wells in Alaska in fields that were made off limits by federal dictate, the oil can be flowing from these in a year.  Other fields can be brought online in five years.  The offshore reserves will take longer in some areas, but Obama made many companies in the Gulf close down functioning oil wells, these can be brought back online almost instantly.

2.  Ethanol plants can be built in less than one year.  Sugar cane can be grown on a massive basis in less than one year.  Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, and all the large Caribbean Islands can produce very large amounts of sugar cane.  This is a very well understood industry and the technology is mature and easy to obtain.

3.  Liquified natural gas.  -  Any vehicle can be converted to run on liquefied natural gas in a few days.  We already have very large amounts of natural gas.  Building a new plant to liquefy the gas takes about six months.  Service stations that sell liquefied natural gas can easily be built along the interstate system on federal land or state land.  This would take another six months.

4.  Converting coal to gasoline.  The US government has the plans that the Germans used.  American companies built those coal to gasoline plants.  The South Africans proved that you can get one of these facilities up and running in about one year.  We have many coal mines that were shuttered by the environmental wackos, especially in West Virginia.  Reopening one of these coal mines takes about three months.

5.  The European diesel engine that gets over 50 miles per gallon.  Volkswagen has offered to build a factory to create these engines in each of the large US markets such as New York, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, etc.  Allowing the diesel engine to be used takes on signature, building the plants takes about six months, getting automobile designs modified to use the engine takes about six months.  All the European car makers like Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, etc already use this engine in the European version of all their models.  It will take them less than a year to modify their US models to do the same.
 
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Posted: #46
Quote Originally Posted by SurfApe:

  Acting like obama is some huge departure from previous presidents is ridiculous.  He is pretty much carrying out the same core policies as every president in the past 50 years- expanding the federal gov't at home and military adventurism overseas.  All the trivial "wedge issues" and repub/dem name calling is just a sideshow.  We really have only one party, the corporate party, and it doesn't represent you.



I can absolutely blame Obama.  The issues that I brought up can be resolved with the stroke of a pen.  And Obama refuses to do so.  I can absolutely blame him.
 
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Posted: #47
curious, the post wasn't really directed at you.  You made it pretty clear that you blame previous admins as well.  It is the people who think repubs can do no wrong and dems can do no good, or vice versa that my post was directed at.  Some people here would criticize the way obama takes a shit, then bow down and kiss bush's ass.  Same can be said the other way too- people comparing bush to hitler and obama to stalin are of the same cloth, and don't deserve to be taken seriously
 
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Posted: #48
curiousone,

You have to be kidding here..

The ideas you have arent new, in fact we discussed many of these very things when crude spiked in 2007-2008.

I think you are drastically underestimating how long it takes to go from ideas to execution of said ideas.

Who is going to pay for the thousands of LNG filling stations? You do know that the capacity needed for the equiv LNG is much higher than unleaded, right? That a "tank" full of LNG goes MUCH less distance than unleaded, right?

You also know that as we see manipulation in crude, we also saw the same manipulation in natural gas, and if we even SNIFF the idea of a nationwide conversion from unleaded to LNG that you will see a MASSIVE explosion in natural gas prices..you know that, right?

Even though we have what, several hundred years of reserves in natural gas, the speculators would rush in front of the little guy again and crush what we currently have as a massive divergence from natural gas prices to unleaded..you know that right?

Who is going to pay for the conversion process from unleaded to LNG? The length of time to recoup the cost of the conversion to the consumer would be lengthy and I would also imagine that if you were to roll out this "idea" right now, even with government backing and subsidy that it would be at least TWO years until we had any capacity built for fueling and we had even a small percentage of vehicles converted..

Ethanol is really not a viable, cost effective way to reduce the cost of fuel, we cannot handle the capacity necessary to use our beet supply to convert to ethanol without large inflationary results to other uses of sugar beets. The only real solution to the ethanol situation is to allow Brazil to import their goods, without a 100% tariff..now I agree in import taxes, but what we are doing is outright theft to the middle and lower class in return for profits to our corn producers..it is really bad news, but then again since we allow the free markets to pollute our political process, why am I not shocked?

10 years might be light on my estimates to how long it would take..I could be underestimating the impact by another ten years.
 
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Posted: #49
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Gas was not cheap under Bush either

It was never this high.

O'Reilly?

It is difficult enough having a reasoned discussion with right wing zealots who only see the world in Republican=good, Democrats=bad lenses, but it is even harder when they don't use facts.

 

 
 
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Posted: #50

I see an incredible amount of arm waving in here.  If you could place  magic wands in those same arms, yes....all our energy problems are solved overnight.

The notion that the US in any way has the reserve potential, or even the undiscovered reserve potential to work our way out of this dependence on a liquid resource that is being sucked dry around the globe is simply ludicrous.

I have said it (along with a few others) for years in this forum now.  I have been working in this industry since 1979.  That was before a lot of you were even a twinkle in your Mom's eye (btw....make sure you give a call / give a hug / say "I Love You" to that person today...if not for her..you are not reading this).

Anyway, I am just astounded by the number of people that believe we have some unalienable right to $2.50/gal gasoline (or whatever your cheap target price is)....and somehow that stipulation is guaranteed by the Constitution, and that same cheap gas has to  be available in perpetuity....so we can just keep on motoring our merry way down the road into the sunset.

This amazing oily substance has been like a herion addiction to our society. Coming off that addiction is going to be as painful as coming off that drug.  And the long term side effects are still before us, waiting to be played out.

 

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