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    All Forums | Politics

    Social Security going broke by 2028

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    JimmyDrizzl
    BWS77
    SarasotaSlim
    Midnight1
    thirdperson
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    JimmyDrizzl
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2019 - 1:34 PM ET #1

    Saw that on the news last week a few times....Govt. officials have been warning us peons for years that the social security trust fund is running out of money, and quickly.

    HOWEVER, they never ever say we will run out of money to bring in and settle millions and millions of undocumented aliens to our country( already 20 mil here now)

    The open border crowd .. (idiots, all of them).. wants unlimited amounts of millions more to come in from anywhere in the world....If you are poor and uneducated and can somehow get here to the United States...YOU CAN STAY,... FOREVER....Not only can you stay, but we will give you , food, housing, medical care, education, etc., etc....Costing the taxpayers hundreds of billions a year to support them in the last year alone....Add tens of millions more projected to come in future years and the cost goes up to the trillions range.

    Only caveat to the migrants looking for expensive handouts....You MUST vote democrat..

    You fools out there that are working hard every day and are paying a certain percentage of your pay into the social security system will never see a dime paid back to you..... All that money you will have paid into Social Security will be used to keep paying off the illegals to keep voting dem-wit.....AND, not to get out of control and start riots and mahem in the streets..

    Think ahead to the future you fools...liberal marxists never do this as they only can only think with feelings and emotion... facts and logic only get in the way.....Filling this country with poor uneducated migrants that will,.. NEVER, EVER,.. be gainfully employed will turn out to be extremely bad in the end for the legal taxpaying citizens....Why is Trump the only person in govt. that sees this clearly?

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    Saw that on the news last week a few times....Govt. officials have been warning us peons for years that the social security trust fund is running out of money, and quickly.

    HOWEVER, they never ever say we will run out of money to bring in and settle millions and millions of undocumented aliens to our country( already 20 mil here now)

    The open border crowd .. (idiots, all of them).. wants unlimited amounts of millions more to come in from anywhere in the world....If you are poor and uneducated and can somehow get here to the United States...YOU CAN STAY,... FOREVER....Not only can you stay, but we will give you , food, housing, medical care, education, etc., etc....Costing the taxpayers hundreds of billions a year to support them in the last year alone....Add tens of millions more projected to come in future years and the cost goes up to the trillions range.

    Only caveat to the migrants looking for expensive handouts....You MUST vote democrat..

    You fools out there that are working hard every day and are paying a certain percentage of your pay into the social security system will never see a dime paid back to you..... All that money you will have paid into Social Security will be used to keep paying off the illegals to keep voting dem-wit.....AND, not to get out of control and start riots and mahem in the streets..

    Think ahead to the future you fools...liberal marxists never do this as they only can only think with feelings and emotion... facts and logic only get in the way.....Filling this country with poor uneducated migrants that will,.. NEVER, EVER,.. be gainfully employed will turn out to be extremely bad in the end for the legal taxpaying citizens....Why is Trump the only person in govt. that sees this clearly?

     
    BWS77
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2019 - 6:25 PM ET #2

    Did you just put the sentences "facts and logic only get in the way" in the same paragraph as "Why is Trump the only person in govt. that sees this clearly"????



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    Did you just put the sentences "facts and logic only get in the way" in the same paragraph as "Why is Trump the only person in govt. that sees this clearly"????



     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2019 - 6:51 PM ET #3

    In 2010 during the Nevada Democratic Party Convention Senator Harry Reid (D) called the idea of Social Security insolvency a “myth” while claiming that the fund should remain solvent for at least another 40 years. (2050)...

    Reid went on to say that this “myth” was perpetuated in order to scare senior citizens...
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    In 2010 during the Nevada Democratic Party Convention Senator Harry Reid (D) called the idea of Social Security insolvency a “myth” while claiming that the fund should remain solvent for at least another 40 years. (2050)...

    Reid went on to say that this “myth” was perpetuated in order to scare senior citizens...
     
    Midnight1
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2019 - 7:55 PM ET #4

    Dick Cheney said he felt terrible about shooting a 78 year old man but on the bright side it did give him a great idea on how to fix social security.

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    Dick Cheney said he felt terrible about shooting a 78 year old man but on the bright side it did give him a great idea on how to fix social security.

     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2019 - 10:29 PM ET #5

    Actually, social security fund is not going broke soon.  According to congress budget office, fund is in good shape until 2052.  Even if a shortfall is forecasted, a combination of policy adjustments could fix funding issues.  For examples, increasing payroll taxes and raising retirement age. 

    Myth is that illegal immigrants drain from the system and not pay taxes.  No one can avoid paying sale, municipal, state, federal, property or income taxes.  According to Cato institute, illegal immigrants help to subsidize social security fund by paying billions in payroll taxes for public benefits they would never receive. 

    Ineligible for welfare, food stamps and medicare.  Few exceptions include emergency healthcare, disaster relief and education for their children.  According to US chamber of commerce, economy needs illegal immigrants to take jobs that americans don't want to do.  60% are employed according to Harvard study.  Overall, most economists see the contributions of immigrants as workers and consumers positively boosting US economy in the long term.
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    Actually, social security fund is not going broke soon.  According to congress budget office, fund is in good shape until 2052.  Even if a shortfall is forecasted, a combination of policy adjustments could fix funding issues.  For examples, increasing payroll taxes and raising retirement age. 

    Myth is that illegal immigrants drain from the system and not pay taxes.  No one can avoid paying sale, municipal, state, federal, property or income taxes.  According to Cato institute, illegal immigrants help to subsidize social security fund by paying billions in payroll taxes for public benefits they would never receive. 

    Ineligible for welfare, food stamps and medicare.  Few exceptions include emergency healthcare, disaster relief and education for their children.  According to US chamber of commerce, economy needs illegal immigrants to take jobs that americans don't want to do.  60% are employed according to Harvard study.  Overall, most economists see the contributions of immigrants as workers and consumers positively boosting US economy in the long term.
     
    Midnight1
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 12:15 PM ET #6

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Actually, social security fund is not going broke soon.  According to congress budget office, fund is in good shape until 2052.  Even if a shortfall is forecasted, a combination of policy adjustments could fix funding issues.  For examples, increasing payroll taxes and raising retirement age.  Myth is that illegal immigrants drain from the system and not pay taxes.  No one can avoid paying sale, municipal, state, federal, property or income taxes.  According to Cato institute, illegal immigrants help to subsidize social security fund by paying billions in payroll taxes for public benefits they would never receive.  Ineligible for welfare, food stamps and medicare.  Few exceptions include emergency healthcare, disaster relief and education for their children.  According to US chamber of commerce, economy needs illegal immigrants to take jobs that americans don't want to do.  60% are employed according to Harvard study.  Overall, most economists see the contributions of immigrants as workers and consumers positively boosting US economy in the long term.

    Well done 3rd. Facts always boggle the mind of the poorly educated while they scatter under their beds because they are told the sky is falling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Actually, social security fund is not going broke soon.  According to congress budget office, fund is in good shape until 2052.  Even if a shortfall is forecasted, a combination of policy adjustments could fix funding issues.  For examples, increasing payroll taxes and raising retirement age.  Myth is that illegal immigrants drain from the system and not pay taxes.  No one can avoid paying sale, municipal, state, federal, property or income taxes.  According to Cato institute, illegal immigrants help to subsidize social security fund by paying billions in payroll taxes for public benefits they would never receive.  Ineligible for welfare, food stamps and medicare.  Few exceptions include emergency healthcare, disaster relief and education for their children.  According to US chamber of commerce, economy needs illegal immigrants to take jobs that americans don't want to do.  60% are employed according to Harvard study.  Overall, most economists see the contributions of immigrants as workers and consumers positively boosting US economy in the long term.

    Well done 3rd. Facts always boggle the mind of the poorly educated while they scatter under their beds because they are told the sky is falling.

     
    JimmyDrizzl
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 1:09 PM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Actually, social security fund is not going broke soon.  According to congress budget office, fund is in good shape until 2052.  Even if a shortfall is forecasted, a combination of policy adjustments could fix funding issues.  For examples, increasing payroll taxes and raising retirement age. 

    Myth is that illegal immigrants drain from the system and not pay taxes.  No one can avoid paying sale, municipal, state, federal, property or income taxes.  According to Cato institute, illegal immigrants help to subsidize social security fund by paying billions in payroll taxes for public benefits they would never receive. 

    Ineligible for welfare, food stamps and medicare.  Few exceptions include emergency healthcare, disaster relief and education for their children.  According to US chamber of commerce, economy needs illegal immigrants to take jobs that americans don't want to do.  60% are employed according to Harvard study.  Overall, most economists see the contributions of immigrants as workers and consumers positively boosting US economy in the long term.

    Seemingly very good TRUTHFUL research and interesting facts....So, you say any Social Security shortfall will be made up by raising taxes and by raising the age a person can start taking it.

    Tell me, how does that work?....Will they double or triple the weekly tax?

    Will a person have to be 75 or older to start their retirement?

    Do some more research at this and please let us know...thanks...

    And you also say 60% of migrants are employed...What about the other 40%....How do they get money to live?...Welfare?...crime?...please elaborate...

    I am not an expert on this subject so I must use COMMON SENSE.....

    OPEN BORDERS, AND FREE WELFARE FOR ALL THAT COME......Will not bode well for the average American citizen..
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Actually, social security fund is not going broke soon.  According to congress budget office, fund is in good shape until 2052.  Even if a shortfall is forecasted, a combination of policy adjustments could fix funding issues.  For examples, increasing payroll taxes and raising retirement age. 

    Myth is that illegal immigrants drain from the system and not pay taxes.  No one can avoid paying sale, municipal, state, federal, property or income taxes.  According to Cato institute, illegal immigrants help to subsidize social security fund by paying billions in payroll taxes for public benefits they would never receive. 

    Ineligible for welfare, food stamps and medicare.  Few exceptions include emergency healthcare, disaster relief and education for their children.  According to US chamber of commerce, economy needs illegal immigrants to take jobs that americans don't want to do.  60% are employed according to Harvard study.  Overall, most economists see the contributions of immigrants as workers and consumers positively boosting US economy in the long term.

    Seemingly very good TRUTHFUL research and interesting facts....So, you say any Social Security shortfall will be made up by raising taxes and by raising the age a person can start taking it.

    Tell me, how does that work?....Will they double or triple the weekly tax?

    Will a person have to be 75 or older to start their retirement?

    Do some more research at this and please let us know...thanks...

    And you also say 60% of migrants are employed...What about the other 40%....How do they get money to live?...Welfare?...crime?...please elaborate...

    I am not an expert on this subject so I must use COMMON SENSE.....

    OPEN BORDERS, AND FREE WELFARE FOR ALL THAT COME......Will not bode well for the average American citizen..
     
    nature1970
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 1:34 PM ET #8

    Congress should stop robbing the surplus now and it sustains itself indefinately. We the poor making underb100g contributed 1.2 trillion to social security the elderly and disabled withdraw 400 billion last year. Stop using social security for wars.

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    Congress should stop robbing the surplus now and it sustains itself indefinately. We the poor making underb100g contributed 1.2 trillion to social security the elderly and disabled withdraw 400 billion last year. Stop using social security for wars.

     
    nature1970
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 1:36 PM ET #9

    Why don't we charge Pig oil for the land rents. And stop subsidizing the Corp fgggs. 

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    Why don't we charge Pig oil for the land rents. And stop subsidizing the Corp fgggs. 

     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 2:11 PM ET #10

    Pig oil is tasty,but I prefers swine sauce myself  ...
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    Pig oil is tasty,but I prefers swine sauce myself  ...
     
    Midnight1
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 2:32 PM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Pig oil is tasty,but I prefers swine sauce myself  ...

    Please don't get me talking about pigs again.cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Pig oil is tasty,but I prefers swine sauce myself  ...

    Please don't get me talking about pigs again.cool

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 2:42 PM ET #12

    Yeah I get miffed when the current takers are whining non-stop about their benefits and its owed to them and them them them...when the current worker is getting taxed more and more every year so the takers get theirs. The ceiling keeps going up and up and up, where was the ceiling when the current COLA loving takers were paying FICA? It only started in the late 90's and has accelerated in the last 10 years or so because SS is a sinking ship.

    And dont get me started with the bloated cow called disability, that is a horrible situation which is growing worse and worse every year. When lawyers get a cut of the take (SSDI) you know the situation will keep getting worse.

    Phase out over median income..fair is fair, if the current system raises the ceiling on workers then there needs to be phase outs to the takers as well...but politicians know that the takers are gonna get theirs or they lose their jobs.

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    Yeah I get miffed when the current takers are whining non-stop about their benefits and its owed to them and them them them...when the current worker is getting taxed more and more every year so the takers get theirs. The ceiling keeps going up and up and up, where was the ceiling when the current COLA loving takers were paying FICA? It only started in the late 90's and has accelerated in the last 10 years or so because SS is a sinking ship.

    And dont get me started with the bloated cow called disability, that is a horrible situation which is growing worse and worse every year. When lawyers get a cut of the take (SSDI) you know the situation will keep getting worse.

    Phase out over median income..fair is fair, if the current system raises the ceiling on workers then there needs to be phase outs to the takers as well...but politicians know that the takers are gonna get theirs or they lose their jobs.

     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 3:41 PM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Yeah I get miffed when the current takers are whining non-stop about their benefits and its owed to them and them them them...when the current worker is getting taxed more and more every year so the takers get theirs. The ceiling keeps going up and up and up, where was the ceiling when the current COLA loving takers were paying FICA? It only started in the late 90's and has accelerated in the last 10 years or so because SS is a sinking ship.

    And dont get me started with the bloated cow called disability, that is a horrible situation which is growing worse and worse every year. When lawyers get a cut of the take (SSDI) you know the situation will keep getting worse.

    Phase out over median income..fair is fair, if the current system raises the ceiling on workers then there needs to be phase outs to the takers as well...but politicians know that the takers are gonna get theirs or they lose their jobs.


     I agree Social Security benefits should be for the most vulnerable American citizens in our society..like people who's only source of income is SS............and all those that are on SS should be thoroughly vetted  ...

    To keep SS solvent in the future.. we do need to adopt means testing..We also need to take the payroll cap off of Social Security as a way of making it last a long,long time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Yeah I get miffed when the current takers are whining non-stop about their benefits and its owed to them and them them them...when the current worker is getting taxed more and more every year so the takers get theirs. The ceiling keeps going up and up and up, where was the ceiling when the current COLA loving takers were paying FICA? It only started in the late 90's and has accelerated in the last 10 years or so because SS is a sinking ship.

    And dont get me started with the bloated cow called disability, that is a horrible situation which is growing worse and worse every year. When lawyers get a cut of the take (SSDI) you know the situation will keep getting worse.

    Phase out over median income..fair is fair, if the current system raises the ceiling on workers then there needs to be phase outs to the takers as well...but politicians know that the takers are gonna get theirs or they lose their jobs.


     I agree Social Security benefits should be for the most vulnerable American citizens in our society..like people who's only source of income is SS............and all those that are on SS should be thoroughly vetted  ...

    To keep SS solvent in the future.. we do need to adopt means testing..We also need to take the payroll cap off of Social Security as a way of making it last a long,long time.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 5:04 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Yeah I get miffed when the current takers are whining non-stop about their benefits and its owed to them and them them them...when the current worker is getting taxed more and more every year so the takers get theirs. The ceiling keeps going up and up and up, where was the ceiling when the current COLA loving takers were paying FICA? It only started in the late 90's and has accelerated in the last 10 years or so because SS is a sinking ship. And dont get me started with the bloated cow called disability, that is a horrible situation which is growing worse and worse every year. When lawyers get a cut of the take (SSDI) you know the situation will keep getting worse. Phase out over median income..fair is fair, if the current system raises the ceiling on workers then there needs to be phase outs to the takers as well...but politicians know that the takers are gonna get theirs or they lose their jobs.
     I agree Social Security benefits should be for the most vulnerable American citizens in our society..like people who's only source of income is SS............and all those that are on SS should be thoroughly vetted  ... To keep SS solvent in the future.. we do need to adopt means testing..We also need to take the payroll cap off of Social Security as a way of making it last a long,long time.

    Cap off now isnt fair, the time for cap off was 30 yrs ago...now we have an aggressive year over year increase on the current worker to pay off the current takers. 

    Cap off to me means IMMEDIATE phase out at median income...anything less is a slap in the face to the current worker to benefit the COLA takers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Yeah I get miffed when the current takers are whining non-stop about their benefits and its owed to them and them them them...when the current worker is getting taxed more and more every year so the takers get theirs. The ceiling keeps going up and up and up, where was the ceiling when the current COLA loving takers were paying FICA? It only started in the late 90's and has accelerated in the last 10 years or so because SS is a sinking ship. And dont get me started with the bloated cow called disability, that is a horrible situation which is growing worse and worse every year. When lawyers get a cut of the take (SSDI) you know the situation will keep getting worse. Phase out over median income..fair is fair, if the current system raises the ceiling on workers then there needs to be phase outs to the takers as well...but politicians know that the takers are gonna get theirs or they lose their jobs.
     I agree Social Security benefits should be for the most vulnerable American citizens in our society..like people who's only source of income is SS............and all those that are on SS should be thoroughly vetted  ... To keep SS solvent in the future.. we do need to adopt means testing..We also need to take the payroll cap off of Social Security as a way of making it last a long,long time.

    Cap off now isnt fair, the time for cap off was 30 yrs ago...now we have an aggressive year over year increase on the current worker to pay off the current takers. 

    Cap off to me means IMMEDIATE phase out at median income...anything less is a slap in the face to the current worker to benefit the COLA takers.

     
    Midnight1
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 6:04 PM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Yeah I get miffed when the current takers are whining non-stop about their benefits and its owed to them and them them them...when the current worker is getting taxed more and more every year so the takers get theirs. The ceiling keeps going up and up and up, where was the ceiling when the current COLA loving takers were paying FICA? It only started in the late 90's and has accelerated in the last 10 years or so because SS is a sinking ship. And dont get me started with the bloated cow called disability, that is a horrible situation which is growing worse and worse every year. When lawyers get a cut of the take (SSDI) you know the situation will keep getting worse. Phase out over median income..fair is fair, if the current system raises the ceiling on workers then there needs to be phase outs to the takers as well...but politicians know that the takers are gonna get theirs or they lose their jobs.
     I agree Social Security benefits should be for the most vulnerable American citizens in our society..like people who's only source of income is SS............and all those that are on SS should be thoroughly vetted  ... To keep SS solvent in the future.. we do need to adopt means testing..We also need to take the payroll cap off of Social Security as a way of making it last a long,long time.

    I agree with this. I don't need SS & although I'm eligible I don't take it. From a financial point of view, the longer I wait the more I'll get if I ever need it. It sounds like a number of posters here may also not need it & for that we are very fortunate. We worked hard, invested smartly, owned our businesses & I would assume are relatively healthy. I know maybe a handful of others in the same situation.

    For most Americans this is not the case. We will always have people looking for something free but that is a very small % of our population. I much rather make sure SS is still around for my grandchildren rather than me getting money I don't need. I have enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Yeah I get miffed when the current takers are whining non-stop about their benefits and its owed to them and them them them...when the current worker is getting taxed more and more every year so the takers get theirs. The ceiling keeps going up and up and up, where was the ceiling when the current COLA loving takers were paying FICA? It only started in the late 90's and has accelerated in the last 10 years or so because SS is a sinking ship. And dont get me started with the bloated cow called disability, that is a horrible situation which is growing worse and worse every year. When lawyers get a cut of the take (SSDI) you know the situation will keep getting worse. Phase out over median income..fair is fair, if the current system raises the ceiling on workers then there needs to be phase outs to the takers as well...but politicians know that the takers are gonna get theirs or they lose their jobs.
     I agree Social Security benefits should be for the most vulnerable American citizens in our society..like people who's only source of income is SS............and all those that are on SS should be thoroughly vetted  ... To keep SS solvent in the future.. we do need to adopt means testing..We also need to take the payroll cap off of Social Security as a way of making it last a long,long time.

    I agree with this. I don't need SS & although I'm eligible I don't take it. From a financial point of view, the longer I wait the more I'll get if I ever need it. It sounds like a number of posters here may also not need it & for that we are very fortunate. We worked hard, invested smartly, owned our businesses & I would assume are relatively healthy. I know maybe a handful of others in the same situation.

    For most Americans this is not the case. We will always have people looking for something free but that is a very small % of our population. I much rather make sure SS is still around for my grandchildren rather than me getting money I don't need. I have enough.

     
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 7:16 PM ET #16

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

     

    Cap off now isnt fair, the time for cap off was 30 yrs ago...now we have an aggressive year over year increase on the current worker to pay off the current takers. 

    Cap off to me means IMMEDIATE phase out at median income...anything less is a slap in the face to the current worker to benefit the COLA takers.


    This is more your area than it is mine...So ,please explain why taking the cap off ..will.. immediate phase out median income...?

    Why do we have to have two income brackets in regards to SS?

    To me, taking the cap off the amount wage earners have to pay into SS (2019 133K ) puts more $ into SS by those making the most money ....we do that with income tax..

    I stipulate,, that no matter how much someone puts into SS there would have to be a cut off amount or a max amount of withdraw ..no matter how much you contribute..
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

     

    Cap off now isnt fair, the time for cap off was 30 yrs ago...now we have an aggressive year over year increase on the current worker to pay off the current takers. 

    Cap off to me means IMMEDIATE phase out at median income...anything less is a slap in the face to the current worker to benefit the COLA takers.


    This is more your area than it is mine...So ,please explain why taking the cap off ..will.. immediate phase out median income...?

    Why do we have to have two income brackets in regards to SS?

    To me, taking the cap off the amount wage earners have to pay into SS (2019 133K ) puts more $ into SS by those making the most money ....we do that with income tax..

    I stipulate,, that no matter how much someone puts into SS there would have to be a cut off amount or a max amount of withdraw ..no matter how much you contribute..
     
    nature1970
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 7:26 PM ET #17

    Raise retirement age to 80 and life expectancy to 50 and it will phase itself oit.

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    Raise retirement age to 80 and life expectancy to 50 and it will phase itself oit.

     
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    Posted: Feb. 18, 2019 - 9:03 PM ET #18

    SS,

    I am talking about equitable fair treatment that does not just penalize the current worker for the sole benefit of the COLA takers...if we are going to unfairly tax the current worker, then it is also fair to phase out if the reason for this increase is to extend the life of SS...it is not fair to remove the cap when it was not removed for the massive group who is taking from SS now with expected COLA increases and most that qualified to take benefits earlier than the current worker will. 

    If the goal is to extend the program then the answer cannot be to just tax the current worker more...ESPECIALLY if we use the faulty logic of the current COLA takers that they paid in and are entitled to those funds...as if any tax has claim from citizens...but IF the takers want to use faulty logic then that same logic will be used against them. There was NO cap off to SS when the takers were earning, so there should not be a capless program now. SS was never meant to be a retirement program, it was meant to serve the poor so let it serve the poor and phase out above median income.

    Most all tax breaks phase out, medicaid phases out, food stamps phase out above income, so SS should follow the same and start phasing out over median income....

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    SS,

    I am talking about equitable fair treatment that does not just penalize the current worker for the sole benefit of the COLA takers...if we are going to unfairly tax the current worker, then it is also fair to phase out if the reason for this increase is to extend the life of SS...it is not fair to remove the cap when it was not removed for the massive group who is taking from SS now with expected COLA increases and most that qualified to take benefits earlier than the current worker will. 

    If the goal is to extend the program then the answer cannot be to just tax the current worker more...ESPECIALLY if we use the faulty logic of the current COLA takers that they paid in and are entitled to those funds...as if any tax has claim from citizens...but IF the takers want to use faulty logic then that same logic will be used against them. There was NO cap off to SS when the takers were earning, so there should not be a capless program now. SS was never meant to be a retirement program, it was meant to serve the poor so let it serve the poor and phase out above median income.

    Most all tax breaks phase out, medicaid phases out, food stamps phase out above income, so SS should follow the same and start phasing out over median income....

     
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    Posted: Feb. 19, 2019 - 12:04 AM ET #19

    WSCer's  you talk about what we should have done 30 years ago  ..how about something we could have done 20 years sago ..

    Take a portion of the incoming Social Security revenue and instead of investing it all in special-issue Treasury bonds that are held in trust funds and invest them into equities....

    In fact, in President Bill Clinton's SOTU address in late1990's ,,that exactly what he proposed... allowing Social Security to be invest in corporate equities...that would be better than the 3 something % we are getting in Special T-bonds...
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    WSCer's  you talk about what we should have done 30 years ago  ..how about something we could have done 20 years sago ..

    Take a portion of the incoming Social Security revenue and instead of investing it all in special-issue Treasury bonds that are held in trust funds and invest them into equities....

    In fact, in President Bill Clinton's SOTU address in late1990's ,,that exactly what he proposed... allowing Social Security to be invest in corporate equities...that would be better than the 3 something % we are getting in Special T-bonds...
     
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    Posted: Feb. 19, 2019 - 11:14 AM ET #20

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    WSCer's  you talk about what we should have done 30 years ago  ..how about something we could have done 20 years sago ..Take a portion of the incoming Social Security revenue and instead of investing it all in special-issue Treasury bonds that are held in trust funds and invest them into equities.... In fact, in President Bill Clinton's SOTU address in late1990's ,,that exactly what he proposed... allowing Social Security to be invest in corporate equities...that would be better than the 3 something % we are getting in Special T-bonds...

    I do not like this one bit...giving more money to a group who does not deserve it...giving money to fund corporate operations and dividends/buybacks for the elite. No thanks.

    All I am saying is there was a cap when the current takers were putting in, there should be a cap now...or remove the cap and phase out over median income. IF the reason for this is to extend the program then both sides of the equation would bear the costs of this...not just penalize the worker and give more to the takers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    WSCer's  you talk about what we should have done 30 years ago  ..how about something we could have done 20 years sago ..Take a portion of the incoming Social Security revenue and instead of investing it all in special-issue Treasury bonds that are held in trust funds and invest them into equities.... In fact, in President Bill Clinton's SOTU address in late1990's ,,that exactly what he proposed... allowing Social Security to be invest in corporate equities...that would be better than the 3 something % we are getting in Special T-bonds...

    I do not like this one bit...giving more money to a group who does not deserve it...giving money to fund corporate operations and dividends/buybacks for the elite. No thanks.

    All I am saying is there was a cap when the current takers were putting in, there should be a cap now...or remove the cap and phase out over median income. IF the reason for this is to extend the program then both sides of the equation would bear the costs of this...not just penalize the worker and give more to the takers.

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Feb. 19, 2019 - 12:19 PM ET #21

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:


    This is more your area than it is mine...So ,please explain why taking the cap off ..will.. immediate phase out median income...?

    Why do we have to have two income brackets in regards to SS?

    To me, taking the cap off the amount wage earners have to pay into SS (2019 133K ) puts more $ into SS by those making the most money ....we do that with income tax..

    I stipulate,, that no matter how much someone puts into SS there would have to be a cut off amount or a max amount of withdraw ..no matter how much you contribute..

    There are good reasons not to raise it.  This is a liberal-minded tactic that would not fix the issue, unless the whole program was changed. 

    We already have the highest cap in the world, so simple raising it would not address the underlying problems. 

    One of the reasons for a cap to start with is the program is more of an insurance situation, instead of a welfare one. 

    We figured out years ago that people do not do a good job of planning to get old.  Unlike some other countries, we tend to move out of our parents home as soon as possible.  This leaves the old folks, more or less, to fend for themselves.  The fact that SS accounts for so much of a retired person’s income only demonstrates this point. We should plan for retirement much better than we do.  I have dealt with this for a long time.  It is amazing how little people understand what they need to be doing.  And I mean the financially-savvy folks.  People start too late and plan wrong.  Therefore, way too many people see SS as a desperate last means to aid them. 

    If the cap is raise there are business problems also. For example, companies would have to deal with the increase.  Pretty obvious what they would do.  

    Of course if you take away the cap, you get into the issue of it truly becoming a situation where high-income earners subsidize the lower-income earners.  This for sure makes it more of a government benefit then.  This is the same philosophy that is used to point out that single earners can be said to subsidize low-earning married couples. 

    Whether you agree with SS at all or even think it need to be fixed, I think Karen Smith has the best answer —- you have to raise the tax on everyone. It is that —- or lower the benefits on everyone, which politically wont work. 

    We simply have to do a much better job of planning to get old and retire.  Don’t spend what you don’t have. Save and invest.  Always live within your means.  It really does work.  Then you won’t have to rely on SS as much. 

    You also have to keep in mind that the plan was not for the high-earners to even participate in the plan.  This was just an insurance plan for the lower-earners.  

    For example as this quote states:


    Eliminating the cap and raising what Social Security pays high earners wouldn’t solve any Social Security shortfall. More money would come in, but more would go out.

    If we raise the cap but we don’t pay high earners more, then Social Security begins to look more like a retirement planning welfare program. Andrew Biggs, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and former principal deputy commissioner of the Social Security Administration, pointed out in The New York Times Wednesday that if we eliminate the cap and don’t pay more, “a person earning $225,000 would pay roughly four times more in taxes than he’ll receive in benefits.”


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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:


    This is more your area than it is mine...So ,please explain why taking the cap off ..will.. immediate phase out median income...?

    Why do we have to have two income brackets in regards to SS?

    To me, taking the cap off the amount wage earners have to pay into SS (2019 133K ) puts more $ into SS by those making the most money ....we do that with income tax..

    I stipulate,, that no matter how much someone puts into SS there would have to be a cut off amount or a max amount of withdraw ..no matter how much you contribute..

    There are good reasons not to raise it.  This is a liberal-minded tactic that would not fix the issue, unless the whole program was changed. 

    We already have the highest cap in the world, so simple raising it would not address the underlying problems. 

    One of the reasons for a cap to start with is the program is more of an insurance situation, instead of a welfare one. 

    We figured out years ago that people do not do a good job of planning to get old.  Unlike some other countries, we tend to move out of our parents home as soon as possible.  This leaves the old folks, more or less, to fend for themselves.  The fact that SS accounts for so much of a retired person’s income only demonstrates this point. We should plan for retirement much better than we do.  I have dealt with this for a long time.  It is amazing how little people understand what they need to be doing.  And I mean the financially-savvy folks.  People start too late and plan wrong.  Therefore, way too many people see SS as a desperate last means to aid them. 

    If the cap is raise there are business problems also. For example, companies would have to deal with the increase.  Pretty obvious what they would do.  

    Of course if you take away the cap, you get into the issue of it truly becoming a situation where high-income earners subsidize the lower-income earners.  This for sure makes it more of a government benefit then.  This is the same philosophy that is used to point out that single earners can be said to subsidize low-earning married couples. 

    Whether you agree with SS at all or even think it need to be fixed, I think Karen Smith has the best answer —- you have to raise the tax on everyone. It is that —- or lower the benefits on everyone, which politically wont work. 

    We simply have to do a much better job of planning to get old and retire.  Don’t spend what you don’t have. Save and invest.  Always live within your means.  It really does work.  Then you won’t have to rely on SS as much. 

    You also have to keep in mind that the plan was not for the high-earners to even participate in the plan.  This was just an insurance plan for the lower-earners.  

    For example as this quote states:


    Eliminating the cap and raising what Social Security pays high earners wouldn’t solve any Social Security shortfall. More money would come in, but more would go out.

    If we raise the cap but we don’t pay high earners more, then Social Security begins to look more like a retirement planning welfare program. Andrew Biggs, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and former principal deputy commissioner of the Social Security Administration, pointed out in The New York Times Wednesday that if we eliminate the cap and don’t pay more, “a person earning $225,000 would pay roughly four times more in taxes than he’ll receive in benefits.”


     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Feb. 19, 2019 - 12:25 PM ET #22

    There many quick links to look at to get an economic and political idea on this.  Here are three.  The first one I think is a little in-depth.  The other two give a quick look into it. 

    https://economics21.org/html/why-raising-social-security’s-tax-cap-wouldn’t-eliminate-its-shortfall-343.html


    https://www.bankrate.com/financing/retirement/will-raising-the-cap-save-social-security/


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2018/04/28/so-hey-why-not-just-remove-the-social-security-earnings-cap/#3cc38a1e2b23

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    There many quick links to look at to get an economic and political idea on this.  Here are three.  The first one I think is a little in-depth.  The other two give a quick look into it. 

    https://economics21.org/html/why-raising-social-security’s-tax-cap-wouldn’t-eliminate-its-shortfall-343.html


    https://www.bankrate.com/financing/retirement/will-raising-the-cap-save-social-security/


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2018/04/28/so-hey-why-not-just-remove-the-social-security-earnings-cap/#3cc38a1e2b23

     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 19, 2019 - 4:17 PM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:


    Whether you agree with SS at all or even think it need to be fixed, I think Karen Smith has the best answer —- you have to raise the tax on everyone. It is that —- or lower the benefits on everyone, which politically wont work.




    It's pretty simple, as Karen Smith states it...raise the tax ,because politically we will never be able to lower it..

    Social Security is financed by a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages up to the taxable earnings cap, with half (6.2 percent) paid by workers and the other half paid by employers.

    So, lets only remove the cap on the evil employers side and have them continue to pay a 6.2 % tax on the total amount an employee makes..and to make it fair ..tax all benefits 100% (presently 85%) after the min. income threshold,,..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:


    Whether you agree with SS at all or even think it need to be fixed, I think Karen Smith has the best answer —- you have to raise the tax on everyone. It is that —- or lower the benefits on everyone, which politically wont work.




    It's pretty simple, as Karen Smith states it...raise the tax ,because politically we will never be able to lower it..

    Social Security is financed by a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages up to the taxable earnings cap, with half (6.2 percent) paid by workers and the other half paid by employers.

    So, lets only remove the cap on the evil employers side and have them continue to pay a 6.2 % tax on the total amount an employee makes..and to make it fair ..tax all benefits 100% (presently 85%) after the min. income threshold,,..
     
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    Posted: Feb. 19, 2019 - 5:22 PM ET #24

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    Whether you agree with SS at all or even think it need to be fixed, I think Karen Smith has the best answer —- you have to raise the tax on everyone. It is that —- or lower the benefits on everyone, which politically wont work.
    It's pretty simple, as Karen Smith states it...raise the tax ,because politically we will never be able to lower it..Social Security is financed by a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages up to the taxable earnings cap, with half (6.2 percent) paid by workers and the other half paid by employers. So, lets only remove the cap on the evil employers side and have them continue to pay a 6.2 % tax on the total amount an employee makes..and to make it fair ..tax all benefits 100% (presently 85%) after the min. income threshold,,..

    Id say that only works if the proceeds go towards those paying in currently...not plugging holes from the takers who did not have these stipulations and restrictions. 

    Politicians are owned by special interests and job keeping tactics...instead of doing the correct thing and cutting costs they want to tax their way out of responsibility. Nobody is talking about SSDI...that is the monster in the shadows and by far is more dangerous than the holes in regular SS. Its the same umbrella and most positively SSDI is not properly funded for the enormous ammt taken out and the growth it continues to have. The percentages on SSDI are less than 1% and that number has been flat for decades but the cap keeps going up of course. I think SSDI serves a purpose but the program isnt administered properly because we dont fund and staff it to support the enormity of the program.

    Back to SS, phase it out over median income...or how about this, phase out over the original pay-in median income, you know the level at which those takers were paying for those years at lower levels than current? Also, SS didnt start to be 6.2 each side until after 1990!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    Whether you agree with SS at all or even think it need to be fixed, I think Karen Smith has the best answer —- you have to raise the tax on everyone. It is that —- or lower the benefits on everyone, which politically wont work.
    It's pretty simple, as Karen Smith states it...raise the tax ,because politically we will never be able to lower it..Social Security is financed by a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages up to the taxable earnings cap, with half (6.2 percent) paid by workers and the other half paid by employers. So, lets only remove the cap on the evil employers side and have them continue to pay a 6.2 % tax on the total amount an employee makes..and to make it fair ..tax all benefits 100% (presently 85%) after the min. income threshold,,..

    Id say that only works if the proceeds go towards those paying in currently...not plugging holes from the takers who did not have these stipulations and restrictions. 

    Politicians are owned by special interests and job keeping tactics...instead of doing the correct thing and cutting costs they want to tax their way out of responsibility. Nobody is talking about SSDI...that is the monster in the shadows and by far is more dangerous than the holes in regular SS. Its the same umbrella and most positively SSDI is not properly funded for the enormous ammt taken out and the growth it continues to have. The percentages on SSDI are less than 1% and that number has been flat for decades but the cap keeps going up of course. I think SSDI serves a purpose but the program isnt administered properly because we dont fund and staff it to support the enormity of the program.

    Back to SS, phase it out over median income...or how about this, phase out over the original pay-in median income, you know the level at which those takers were paying for those years at lower levels than current? Also, SS didnt start to be 6.2 each side until after 1990!

     
     
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    Posted: Feb. 19, 2019 - 7:21 PM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:


    So, lets only remove the cap on the evil employers side and have them continue to pay a 6.2 % tax on the total amount an employee makes..and to make it fair ..tax all benefits 100% (presently 85%) after the min. income threshold,,..

    A lot about this that would not work.  For one, you can’t assume employers are evil.  They have to adjust and do what is in their self-interest to be viable and competitive.  And if you force them to pay more taxes on salary they pay out — then they would adjust.  Then you would also have them in effect subsidizing folk’s retirement that never even worked for them. Economically, that wouldn’t fly. 
    The answer is still to make sure people plan to get old and plan for retirement.  Otherwise, you can make them even more dependent on SS than they already are if you try something like that. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:


    So, lets only remove the cap on the evil employers side and have them continue to pay a 6.2 % tax on the total amount an employee makes..and to make it fair ..tax all benefits 100% (presently 85%) after the min. income threshold,,..

    A lot about this that would not work.  For one, you can’t assume employers are evil.  They have to adjust and do what is in their self-interest to be viable and competitive.  And if you force them to pay more taxes on salary they pay out — then they would adjust.  Then you would also have them in effect subsidizing folk’s retirement that never even worked for them. Economically, that wouldn’t fly. 
    The answer is still to make sure people plan to get old and plan for retirement.  Otherwise, you can make them even more dependent on SS than they already are if you try something like that. 
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