Sergio Martinez (Upcoming fight and thoughts)

I've noticed recently the number of posts that Martinez is consistently considered to be way over-rated and somewhat of a joke.
Let's try to get some real facts.
- He was a late starter (going by standards: Families like Mayweather have been in ring their entire life because that's all the family knew. Young ages you hear about are often 8-10, it's usually around 12 or 13 most U.S. fighters get started, and then by 15 or 16 they are competing Amateur.
- He had a background as a cyclist and soccer, which are definitely sports built for stamina naturals and training.
- He relies mostly on his physical attributes of speed, stamina and movement.
- He is 37 and unlike technique fighters (like Hopkins), as soon as he declines it will go fast. Fortunately he has been in very few fights that take times of a fighters career. His body isn't battle-worn like many fighters of pure athleticism.
- It appears the way he breathes through the mouth and it is open and his mouthpiece appears visible (and looks handing out), surprises me as his two other sports teach breathing through the nose (as boxing also does).
- He is known for keeping his hands at his sides, which will soon lead to an early night for him.

Now his only five fights at Middleweight. His first bout was Paul Williams (37-1) who at the time was considered the most ducked fighter and dangerous, and losing a MD in a fight that you could easily make the case he won. {I consistently praise Howard Lederman for scoring fights with extreme accuracy; so in a fight that is so close to a draw, Harold's daughter Julie is a great judge and scored it 114-114.
His next bout was Kelly Pavlik (36-1), and this had speed mismatch written all over it. The odds were Christmas time, but knowing it would reach the scorecards, you are taking a chance even dominating. Martinez with an easy win by decision.
Rematch against Paul Williams (39-1) {previously, Williams had an off-nite against Carlos Quintana in 2008, as he lacked any luster or vigor. Also, Quintana fought a textbook fight with his limited skills to win; the rematch Williams KO'd Quintana in the 1st round. This fight he adjusted and took a small step back before engaging so Williams range was to close to have any authority, and Sergio's had full power (a trait JMM is known for being the best at doing, just ask Manny). Williams trading punches ended him quick. Whether Williams was on a decline previously, that night, Sergio was able to capitalize.
His next two bout were both undefeated fighters. They were both European and had more pumped up records than was their talent levels. Serhiy Dzinziruk (37-0) (from Ukraine) fights out of Germany and Darren Barker (23-0) from the United Kingdom. Martinez scored two late round stoppages, and 8th round TKO and 11 round KO.

Now here we are ready for Macklin. Martinez maybe over-rated, but his division at the present time sucks. I feel he should attempt to jump ship and move up of possible. This provides opponents like Ward, Bute, Froch, Kessler, Dirrell, Johnson, etc..

It's hard to knock a guy who has only had 5 Middleweight bouts and the combined record for his five opponents is 172 wins and 3 losses. That's an average of 34.4 wins and 0.6 losses.

Sorry for the long winded History post (as usual for me , but I felt for those not fully aware might cut the guy slack and appreciate him for only fighting top opposition (even though it happens to be weak).
I don't know how much longer he can last without his greatest asset diminishing... speed. Once it goes maybe 15% or more, he will have to retire or become a punching bag!

What are the thoughts of others on his rank, his opposition, and how much time (he is 37 now) left, or better said is how many fights does he have if any to be considered not only champion but a pound-for-pound ranked fighter.

I must agree that martinez is not an overrated fighter especially in a rather anemic division. however one must recognize his tools. His unorthodox fighting style along with speed is an obvious cause for much concern in his oppositions eyes. his endurance is unheard of as you have mentioned before with his previous participation in high endurance sports. he reminds me of a larger pacquiao. i think he will take out macklin decisively and should ultimately get a match with chavez jr who in my opnion is the boxer in the class that is overrated and not a real champion.

your thought zouk?

lakeryballah08: Funny you mention Chavez Jr. I think he is got a warrior's heart, but lacks all the skills. I was going to write a post about him, but I appreciate the guy because at least he comes to fight!

martinez's stamina is horrible, the man is always gasping for air through an open mouth, fighters with great stamina, never get winded like this,        salvador sanchez, felix trinidad, johnny tapia( just to name a few) when did you ever see them gasping for breath during the middle of a round?  the answer is never, they had remarkable cardio and never seemed to get winded not matter how fast the pace of a fight was,   martinez is a good athlete, with bad cardio. 

Soul, I'm not sure I agree 100% what your point. I see him with his mouthpiece out, and I first thought the same thing. I noticed that his output performance didn't decrease. It is possible he has a rare nasal congestion condition, or some other breathing through the nose, or just possibly he never adjusted correctly with bad habits. For him to openly admit he has a condition causing some type of nasal restriction after a certain amount on energy release would be like a fighter helping build a blueprint to beat himself.
If he didn't perform late, or perform at a rate and looked sloppy I would agree. His twelve round fight against Williams he seemed to go toe-to-toe against the man considered the ULTIMATE OUTPUT PERFORMER! His open mouth is a good way for a broken jaw. Also, his hands at his sides (RJJ style) also illustrates the man's lack of boxing fundamentals taught in early years. He doesn't even tuck his chin in, or shoulder guard it. Watching him with his hands down and head out draws fighters in.He's able to measure fighters as they follow him around the ring and he closes the gap with his speed and timing.
The guy is just athleticism, with great speed and solid timing and distancing for maximum output on punches at full extension.
I think a blueprint to causing him problems and defeating him with strategy and technique is simpler than most think... don't consistently follow him around, as he has shown the ability to stop fighters that do. He can't seem to measure fighters moving forward (unlike a master at it "Juan Manuel Marquez"). Chasing him gives him opportunities to measure and use his athletic ability. Do a give and take, allow him to be an aggressor by soft playing him early. I'm not talking a total 180, but appear slower and weaker, especially fighters that are uncommon to him limited fight footage and no common opponents. Yes, the fighter has to have ability. Making him start to follow you after several rounds will definitely put him at the disadvantage. Many people would reply... he won't follow. He is a fighter that consistently wants output. Force him to slowly play your game and if you have some skills, taking him out of his game makes fighters based on athletics do the wrong things, rather than taking a step back or a break. The lack of constant action will draw him in, so you now have a fighter out of his game and a surprise element if you can stay disciplined and work the body round after round.
To many head-hunters, fighters need to watch Joe Frazier (RIP).

The problem is the middleweight division is lacking talented boxers.
Here is a list of The Ring's top ten rated middleweights.
Daniel Geale
Felix Sturm (Proven Solid)
Matthew Macklin
Grzegorz Proksa
Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
Sebastian Zbik
Dmitry Pirog
Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam
Martin Murray
Gennady Golovkin

Peter Quillin fights WInky on May 26th, and we will get to see if he lives up to what some of the hype on him is, especially against a future HOF veteran, who might just be able to use enough experience given he still has enough in the tank physically and mentally. Otherwise to me, the only proven solid consistent middleweight is Sturm.

you should not measure stamin and endurance by a boxers way of breathing. i mean i do understand the whole opne mouth thing, but the guy does not seem to slow down during fights whihc to me is a clearer indicator of stamina than method of breathing. but just my opinion.

about chavez jr. idk it just seems that hes had his latest fights hand picked for him. i believe his camp is truly protecting him and are ducking a fight with martinez. i do feel that they are afraid of martinez and do not want to jeapordize his record and fathers name.

to call him a fighter with great stamina is WRONG, he is a very good athlete, that fights in an unorthadox style, that he utilizes well, I would not rate him in the top 1000 fighters ever in terms of cardio. he is always gasping for air, not a sign of a greatly conditioned athlete,  watch some salvador sanchez for christ sake, that is a man that never got winded no matter how tough the fight and that is a sign of a greatly conditioned athlete,  some more guys like this?  felix trinidad,  johnny tapia, gene fullmer, herny armstrong, carmen basilio, sandy saddler, chris byrd, chaquita gonzalez, it has been said that joe gans could go all day,  these are just some guys that were as strong at the end of a fight as in the begining, clearly this is not the case with martinez, who slows in the later rounds.  watch any of his fights that go past 9 rounds and you will see that he slows, so to call him a fighter with great stamina is wrong,  fighters with great stamina never show signs of fatigue in any way. he shows signs in every aspect of conditioning

as for martinez vs chavez jr, it is a fight that I would love too see, but It will not happen for at least 1 year and at that time chavez will be a little better and martinez will simply be a little older (he is 37 now) and with his style (much like a poor mans version of roy jones), once the speed goes it will be all over for martinez at that point, as his whole style is based on athletic ability, his offence and defence is all based on speed, he has no technical skills to fallback on once the speed goes,   if this fight ever does happen a year or so down the road, I like chavez jr to win it. with his chin, pressure,hunger  and bodypunching, 

I do agree that chavez's people want no part of martinez right now, they will wait for a sigh, just as ray leonard did with hagler, after hagler fought mugabi, it was clear that hagler has lost a step and that's when leonard made his move, same thing here

Finally on this topic I agree with you 100% word for word on almost all of that post. A year from now, I'd wait to see how Martinez is performing. But, yes he will fall fast and hard when he does. I posted almost the identical post maybe weeks ago on another forum, and somewhere on here.
We can agree 100%:
- He is speed (athleticism only)
- Bad fundamentals
- Chavez prefers to wait for the obvious
- btw - Post #6 my agreement part was " His open mouth is a good way for a broken jaw. Also, his hands at his sides (RJJ style) also illustrates the man's lack of boxing fundamentals taught in early years. He doesn't even tuck his chin in, or shoulder guard it. Watching him with his hands down and head out draws fighters in.He's able to measure fighters as they follow him around the ring and he closes the gap with his speed and timing.
The guy is just athleticism, with great speed and solid timing and distancing for maximum output on punches at full extension."
GL soul!

my boxing knowledge is no where near compared to those of you two, so i can appreciate your points. being that im only 24 years old ive only been carefully watching the sport for the past decade if not less. ill be looking forward to future posts from you guys to gain some insight and further increase my knowledge

Mack the knife ...small at +600, The fights for free what 40 bucks

OOOw, i like what y'all are saying. I like Martinez but I agree he is a poor "boxer" just uses his athleticism to win. 

Don't post and expect anyone to take your for real. You lied looking up Holt's wrong neighborhood, and it shows a guy drinking in the street and people with shirts off fighting. That has to be the #1 TOOL of a joke. I think I told you clearly where he was by description, not google search.

Here is my post for you....
"LIAR-JERSEYBOY-LIAR: TAKE A LEFT OF E18TH ST ONTO GOVERNOR ST (IT'S A ONE WAY). GO THREE BLOCKS DOWN. PASS THE TRACKS AND ON YOUR RIGHT WILL BE A OLD FOUR STORY BRICK BUILDING, CONTINUE PASSING A WHITE BUILDING COMPLEX ON YOUR LEFT, THEN PASSING ANN ST TO A SIMILAR LOOKING BUILDING ON THE LEFT CALLED "FACE OFF BOXING ACADEMY" , ADDRESS IS 38 GOVERNOR ST.
MY CUZ IS OVER ON TYLER AND WAS OVER THERE DAY & NIGHT. LAST I HEARD WAS HOLT HAD A GOOD CAMP HOLDING AROUND 145LBS AND FEELING GOOD!

GO POUND MORE ON MARGACHEETO. YOU KNOCK EVERY FIGHTER WHO ISN'T MEXICAN AND ALWAYS SEEM TO TAKE A SHOT AT EVERY UNDERDOG WITH STUPID TOPIC THREADS. IT SEEMS YOU BEEN POUNDING YOURSELF AND PATTING YOUR BACK. SO, WHEN AN UNDERDOG DOES WIN, YOU CAN SAY, I TOLD YOU POUND IT. READ YOUR OLD THREADS. NO ANALYSIS. JUST TRASH WORDS WITH LIMITED VOCAB!

RIP Jerseyboy89 ... now proven a fake, and 0-(i lost count).
I love LIARS, small world and they seem to get caught pounding themselves!"
BYE BYE

https://www.vodkasports.tv/2++HBO+Boxing+Sergio+Martinez+vs+Matthew+Macklin-2773.htm

Actually, boxing experience adds so much that can't be explained by words. My first entire fight watched I was 8 year old and it was Arguello vs Pryor. I seen parts at younger age, but we didn't have even 13 broadcast channels. HBO in 1981 was a gift you can't word. At age ten, I was involved in Martial Arts and started Tae Kwon Do. My parents encouraged me and also allowed a kid of 8 years of age watch boxing during the 15 round fights filled with blood. Unlike NFL, NBA, etc... my questions were simple comparatively. For instance, why 3 knockdown rule didn't always apply? etc,etc... nothing technical.
I'd say watch, and understand fundamentals and the difference in class. Watch more flyweight to welterweight as the technical aspects are so apparent, unlike heavier division. At least when I was growing up, Heavyweights had discipline and fundamentals (Tim Witherspoon wasn't a big believer in training... or was he lazy (LOL)?)

 sparring does not mean shit, spadafora beat floyd, in a sparring match and it was not that close, sparring is sparring, a lot of times one guy is in peak condition, while the other is just in the gym, right now martinez beats chavez, but in a year or so ( when the fight might actually happen) when martinez will be 38+  things will be different. much different.

I have a very high interest in boxing however it seems that the sport is digressing and there isnt many at my age to discuss the sport. very sad because i have been very intrgiued. I do follow different weight classes and ive noticed that my interest somewhat decreases going into the heavyweight division. seems like the heavyweight class is no longer part of the united states but in europe.

I am finding yuriorkis gamboa to have great promise if he can improve on some technical flaws he has high potential. like i said im not as in depth as some guys on this forum but id like to increase my knowledge and understanding. also would like to box out of hobby. slowly getting into it.

if you are looking to start boxing  as a hobby, I would give you some KEY advice, as I am a fighter myself,   the NUMBER 1 most important thing about this great sport if you want to be sucessfull is conditioning, conditioning, conditioning.   to be able to be at  your best throughout the whole fight,   example if a B level fighter is in top condition and he is fighting an A level fighter who is not, if the fight goes past the 6 or 7 th round then the B level fight will almost always win. if you look at all of the all time greats from the past, they were guys that always came into the ring in top condition( at least when they were in their prime anyways) and then you have guys like james toney who had all of the ability, but a lot of times did not get himself into supreme condition so did not always perform up to his skill level, and wasted away his peak years, because he did not have the disapline to get himself into supreme condition.  roberto duran had this problem after he moved up from the lightweight divisions ( at lightweight he was one of the greatest fighters to ever live) but he would often  come into the ring out of shape and lost to fighters who he shouldn't have, ruben olivares had a similar problem as well.  their are some guys that would beat you from conditioning and a great chin alone, guys like beau jack, carmine basilio, gene fullmer, even henry armstrong to some extent as well,( I could name 50 more) so conditioning is number 1,   next is the JAB, it will set up your offence as well as help out tremendously with your defence, a good stiff jab will blunt anything your opponent tries to do one offence, watch some fights of sonny liston, winky wright, ike quartey, pernell whitaker, willie pep, tommy loughran, larry holmes, sugar ray robinson,  if you want to get a sence of how to fully use the jab. very important, and keep your dame CHIN tucked, behind your lead shoulder it will help you take a punch much more effectivly, I would say that 80 percent of ko's are caused by guys that get caught with their chin up in the air,   watch bernard hopkins and even punk ass de la hoya, these guys always keep their chin tucked. neither one was ever stopped with a head shot,    these are just a few things to keep in mind while starting out,  CONDITIONING,   THE JAB    AND KEEPING THE CHIN TUCKED.   good luck...oh and remember you are what you eat, so lots of chicken breasts and broccoli and once per week get a nice steak into ya. brown rice as well.

 Thank you my friend. much appreciated.

lakerballah08: You are correct as your generation follows MMA much more closely than boxing. I did follow MMA (and was a fighter), but after UFC III they banned many fights and televised broadcasts as they felt it was to violent and barbaric. What is boxing then? The goal is to KO the opponent, and MMA you can submit a fighter without harm or hurting him.
Long term, boxing is much more dangerous. Just to the laymen public eye the Octagon seemed brutal. Now, I like PRIDE (out of Japan and lasted a decade) as it had a different style. Made fights MMA with more kickboxing action. Also, many fighters from UFC were getting destroyed fighting PRIDE as they assumed it was the same but with ropes instead of a cage...wrong.
They has a way of fining fighters that stalled, they just didn't allow elbows to the face as they seemed to cause cuts when they worked instead of KO'ing an opponent and the Japanese didn't like stopping fights from cuts. Also, Stamina you had to have much more for Pride.
Like many things, the best things don't triumph. Marketing, lobbying, etc... for instance, PartyPoker was a billion dollar yearly enterprise although they had the worst software, technical support, etc... compared to the other top 10 sites. Why did they prevail? They marketed during WPT events that people loved to see whole card with the new cam-card, and many people didn't know that other sites existed, so they all played PartyPoker. Also, as a professional, you had 60,000 bad mid-stakes players every nite and day (over 100k all together)..and what makes you a winner is picking your spots. PartyPoker had so many tables to choose from after you scouted and found the most profitable tables to play at.In poker (and gambling), picking your spots is the game. One write stated... I'd prefer to be a decent player surrounded by maybe 2-3 equal players, and 2-3 worse players, and a few terrible players.. rather than be #1 in the world and sit with the world top 10. Point was, picking where you play is the #1 key to winning. Even if your fundamentals suck... other players are worse. The game is about who makes the less mistakes, not who makes a super play. Making hero calls catching bluffs, or attempting hero bluffs is not the game.
The WPT would show 2 hours (maybe 1 hours with all commercials), a total of 30 hands with 6 players and ending with 1. It totally mislead players that were new. It didn't show why a guy did something, because maybe he was wild previously and had a bad image of bluffing, so people would just see the hand where a player made a bad call against this guy and go knocked out. They didn't know the guy was bluffing 9 out of 10 times. The 1 time, he caught someone.
What if you saw an NFL score 28-0 and considered a team got owned. Then you check stats, and losing team had 500 total offense yards but had 3 unforced turnovers, with one turning into a touchdown that play on a punt return fumbled and turned into TD.