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    All Forums | Boxing

    Weekend Picks (7/11/08 - 7/12/08)

    A2C
    eldorado
    MMACapper
    LetMeSpin
    walktheline
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 772
    Posts: 18
     
    A2C
    A2C
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2008 - 4:48 PM ET #1

    2007: +12.45 units
    2008: +8.21 units

    Joachim Alcine vs. Daniel Santos
    Santos (+260)
    0.5 unit


    I see a lot of value in a Santos play here.  Alcine has only faced one top-level fighter (Travis Simms), and you could argue that he basically won that one on work rate, as Simms just didn't throw enough punches.  Also, Simms may have been overrated, as his best wins came against Jose Antonio Rivera, Bronco McKart, and Alejandro Garcia.  All three were quality contenders at the time, but none was considered elite.  Moreover, Simms was 36 when he fought Alcine, and it was only his second fight in a three-year period.  So, for all the glory Alcine got for beating the undefeated Simms, I don't think it was all that special (if anyone remembers, the truly "special" performance that night was Nonito Donaire's brutal KO of Vic Darchinyan).  Alcine has good technique and stays busy, but he doesn't have much power, and he's never been in the ring with someone as good as Santos.  Basically, Alcine is a Canadian regional fighter who's just gained notoriety in the past year due to his defeat of Simms. 

    Santos has beaten Yory Boy Campas, Fulgencio Zuniga, and Antonio Margarito, while he lost a split decision to well-regarded Sergiy Dzinziruk.  There's just no substitute for that kind of experience.  Also, Santos' style should serve him well against Alcine, as I expect him to allow Alcine to initiate the attack and then counter him with solid, clean shots.  Logic says that this should be a decision win for Santos, but a late stoppage is always a possibility if Santos gets comfortable and decides to turn up the heat.
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    2007: +12.45 units
    2008: +8.21 units

    Joachim Alcine vs. Daniel Santos
    Santos (+260)
    0.5 unit


    I see a lot of value in a Santos play here.  Alcine has only faced one top-level fighter (Travis Simms), and you could argue that he basically won that one on work rate, as Simms just didn't throw enough punches.  Also, Simms may have been overrated, as his best wins came against Jose Antonio Rivera, Bronco McKart, and Alejandro Garcia.  All three were quality contenders at the time, but none was considered elite.  Moreover, Simms was 36 when he fought Alcine, and it was only his second fight in a three-year period.  So, for all the glory Alcine got for beating the undefeated Simms, I don't think it was all that special (if anyone remembers, the truly "special" performance that night was Nonito Donaire's brutal KO of Vic Darchinyan).  Alcine has good technique and stays busy, but he doesn't have much power, and he's never been in the ring with someone as good as Santos.  Basically, Alcine is a Canadian regional fighter who's just gained notoriety in the past year due to his defeat of Simms. 

    Santos has beaten Yory Boy Campas, Fulgencio Zuniga, and Antonio Margarito, while he lost a split decision to well-regarded Sergiy Dzinziruk.  There's just no substitute for that kind of experience.  Also, Santos' style should serve him well against Alcine, as I expect him to allow Alcine to initiate the attack and then counter him with solid, clean shots.  Logic says that this should be a decision win for Santos, but a late stoppage is always a possibility if Santos gets comfortable and decides to turn up the heat.
     
    eldorado
    eldorado
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2008 - 9:27 PM ET #2

    Quote Originally Posted by A2C:

    2007: +12.45 units
    2008: +8.21 units

    Joachim Alcine vs. Daniel Santos
    Santos (+260)
    0.5 unit


    I see a lot of value in a Santos play here.  Alcine has only faced one top-level fighter (Travis Simms), and you could argue that he basically won that one on work rate, as Simms just didn't throw enough punches.  Also, Simms may have been overrated, as his best wins came against Jose Antonio Rivera, Bronco McKart, and Alejandro Garcia.  All three were quality contenders at the time, but none was considered elite.  Moreover, Simms was 36 when he fought Alcine, and it was only his second fight in a three-year period.  So, for all the glory Alcine got for beating the undefeated Simms, I don't think it was all that special (if anyone remembers, the truly "special" performance that night was Nonito Donaire's brutal KO of Vic Darchinyan).  Alcine has good technique and stays busy, but he doesn't have much power, and he's never been in the ring with someone as good as Santos.  Basically, Alcine is a Canadian regional fighter who's just gained notoriety in the past year due to his defeat of Simms. 

    Santos has beaten Yory Boy Campas, Fulgencio Zuniga, and Antonio Margarito, while he lost a split decision to well-regarded Sergiy Dzinziruk.  There's just no substitute for that kind of experience.  Also, Santos' style should serve him well against Alcine, as I expect him to allow Alcine to initiate the attack and then counter him with solid, clean shots.  Logic says that this should be a decision win for Santos, but a late stoppage is always a possibility if Santos gets comfortable and decides to turn up the heat.

    great post, however interbox very carefully matches their fighters and they wouldnt throw alcine in with anybody they didnt think they could beat. as well, the home cooking thing is always going to be a factor with a francopone fighter in la belle province.

    i think alcine wins a decision, but have no action(missed cutoff), so good luck.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by A2C:

    2007: +12.45 units
    2008: +8.21 units

    Joachim Alcine vs. Daniel Santos
    Santos (+260)
    0.5 unit


    I see a lot of value in a Santos play here.  Alcine has only faced one top-level fighter (Travis Simms), and you could argue that he basically won that one on work rate, as Simms just didn't throw enough punches.  Also, Simms may have been overrated, as his best wins came against Jose Antonio Rivera, Bronco McKart, and Alejandro Garcia.  All three were quality contenders at the time, but none was considered elite.  Moreover, Simms was 36 when he fought Alcine, and it was only his second fight in a three-year period.  So, for all the glory Alcine got for beating the undefeated Simms, I don't think it was all that special (if anyone remembers, the truly "special" performance that night was Nonito Donaire's brutal KO of Vic Darchinyan).  Alcine has good technique and stays busy, but he doesn't have much power, and he's never been in the ring with someone as good as Santos.  Basically, Alcine is a Canadian regional fighter who's just gained notoriety in the past year due to his defeat of Simms. 

    Santos has beaten Yory Boy Campas, Fulgencio Zuniga, and Antonio Margarito, while he lost a split decision to well-regarded Sergiy Dzinziruk.  There's just no substitute for that kind of experience.  Also, Santos' style should serve him well against Alcine, as I expect him to allow Alcine to initiate the attack and then counter him with solid, clean shots.  Logic says that this should be a decision win for Santos, but a late stoppage is always a possibility if Santos gets comfortable and decides to turn up the heat.

    great post, however interbox very carefully matches their fighters and they wouldnt throw alcine in with anybody they didnt think they could beat. as well, the home cooking thing is always going to be a factor with a francopone fighter in la belle province.

    i think alcine wins a decision, but have no action(missed cutoff), so good luck.

     
    A2C
    A2C
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2008 - 10:53 PM ET #3

    Joachim Alcine vs. Daniel Santos
    Santos (+260)
    1.3 units

    Well folks, we've got a new WBA light middle weight champion.  With Santos leading on the tv announcer's cards 3 rounds to 2, the Puerto Rican connected with a massive left hand with one minute left in the 6th round that sent Alcine to the canvas, hard - very very hard.  After he was dropped, he was laying on his back for a long 5 count (more like 10 seconds), then tried to get up but just sort of toppled over in a disoriented state.  I don't think he'll ever be the same fighter - this was that devestating of a KO.  Absolutely clinical damage from the hands of Santos.  What a stunning result. 
    Reply
    Joachim Alcine vs. Daniel Santos
    Santos (+260)
    1.3 units

    Well folks, we've got a new WBA light middle weight champion.  With Santos leading on the tv announcer's cards 3 rounds to 2, the Puerto Rican connected with a massive left hand with one minute left in the 6th round that sent Alcine to the canvas, hard - very very hard.  After he was dropped, he was laying on his back for a long 5 count (more like 10 seconds), then tried to get up but just sort of toppled over in a disoriented state.  I don't think he'll ever be the same fighter - this was that devestating of a KO.  Absolutely clinical damage from the hands of Santos.  What a stunning result. 
     
    MMACapper
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 11:56 AM ET #4

    Nice call
    Reply
    Nice call
     
    LetMeSpin
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 1:08 PM ET #5

    Are you getting any Wlad action A2C? I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on an assortment of under, itd, and knockdown plays.
    Reply
    Are you getting any Wlad action A2C? I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on an assortment of under, itd, and knockdown plays.
     
    walktheline
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 1:31 PM ET #6

    LetMe... I pulled a silly trigger on Wlad ITD at -180....unless he falls into that foreign trap he will KO that tomato can in front of all the drunks... how else would he win? Tony The Tiger might be eating his cereal through a straw for months.. he isn't technically sound like Ibragimov to last the distance, doesn't have the power to let Wlad know this isn't another schmuck... we'll see though
    Reply
    LetMe... I pulled a silly trigger on Wlad ITD at -180....unless he falls into that foreign trap he will KO that tomato can in front of all the drunks... how else would he win? Tony The Tiger might be eating his cereal through a straw for months.. he isn't technically sound like Ibragimov to last the distance, doesn't have the power to let Wlad know this isn't another schmuck... we'll see though
     
    LetMeSpin
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 1:53 PM ET #7

    Big on -200 ITD.

    Small on each of the following:

    TT knocked down or out -350
    Wlad wins in rounds 4-6 +342
    Knockdown or KO before round 4 +170
    Either leads by 3+ points after round 3 -150

    I should really have more of that last prop, unless they are trading knockdowns, I don't see how Tony Thompson wins any early rounds on the Lederman, company line, card. Let's just hope Klitschko does his job.
    Reply
    Big on -200 ITD.

    Small on each of the following:

    TT knocked down or out -350
    Wlad wins in rounds 4-6 +342
    Knockdown or KO before round 4 +170
    Either leads by 3+ points after round 3 -150

    I should really have more of that last prop, unless they are trading knockdowns, I don't see how Tony Thompson wins any early rounds on the Lederman, company line, card. Let's just hope Klitschko does his job.
     
    A2C
    A2C
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 2:32 PM ET #8

    Wladimir Klitschko vs. Tony Thompson
    Fight goes 1:30 into 7th round (-137, 5 Dimes)
    .685 unit

    I've been back and forth on the multitude of scenarios as to how this fight will play out and finally settled on a round prop.  This has the feel of a very physical, head to head fight - the antithesis of Klitschko - Ibragimov, where the Ukranian champion was able to keep his opponent at bay with an awkward hacking jab that he utilized throughout the evening to keep his Russian opponent form ever getting anything going.  That said, Thompson is roughly the same size as Wlad and to his advantage, comes from a southpaw stance.  After all, who could forget what happened in the infamous Sanders fight?  Thompson pulled off a stunning upset against another German-domiciled boxer, Krasniqi, almost one year ago in the very same arena as today's fight. That's a huge mental edge going into what's typically a very hostile and intimidating venue (and country) for American fighters.  With that added boost of confidence, coupled with his size and stance, I feel like he'll be a worthy and game opponent for at least half of the fight - if not longer.  Quite simply, I don't see him rolling over to Wlad early.  As to the ultimate outcome, we'll have to see.  I do, however, feel like there's excellent value on this prop and will be very surprised if this turns out to be a quick night for either man.
    Reply
    Wladimir Klitschko vs. Tony Thompson
    Fight goes 1:30 into 7th round (-137, 5 Dimes)
    .685 unit

    I've been back and forth on the multitude of scenarios as to how this fight will play out and finally settled on a round prop.  This has the feel of a very physical, head to head fight - the antithesis of Klitschko - Ibragimov, where the Ukranian champion was able to keep his opponent at bay with an awkward hacking jab that he utilized throughout the evening to keep his Russian opponent form ever getting anything going.  That said, Thompson is roughly the same size as Wlad and to his advantage, comes from a southpaw stance.  After all, who could forget what happened in the infamous Sanders fight?  Thompson pulled off a stunning upset against another German-domiciled boxer, Krasniqi, almost one year ago in the very same arena as today's fight. That's a huge mental edge going into what's typically a very hostile and intimidating venue (and country) for American fighters.  With that added boost of confidence, coupled with his size and stance, I feel like he'll be a worthy and game opponent for at least half of the fight - if not longer.  Quite simply, I don't see him rolling over to Wlad early.  As to the ultimate outcome, we'll have to see.  I do, however, feel like there's excellent value on this prop and will be very surprised if this turns out to be a quick night for either man.
     
    walktheline
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 3:01 PM ET #9

    A2C... Wlad isn't Krasniqi. Mental edge? Umm... no. He won there before, but that has ZERO value tonight. I think your grasping for straws here. You also must have missed Wlad interviews where he talks about how his last fight sucked and promised to make it more interesting this time...
     
    Wouldn't be shocked to see it last into round 7. However, with Wlad ITD around at -160 (playersonly.com, great poker, goofy lines) it is the safer bet IMO.
     
    Best of luck.
    Reply
    A2C... Wlad isn't Krasniqi. Mental edge? Umm... no. He won there before, but that has ZERO value tonight. I think your grasping for straws here. You also must have missed Wlad interviews where he talks about how his last fight sucked and promised to make it more interesting this time...
     
    Wouldn't be shocked to see it last into round 7. However, with Wlad ITD around at -160 (playersonly.com, great poker, goofy lines) it is the safer bet IMO.
     
    Best of luck.
     
    Fullbrights
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 3:40 PM ET #10

    Great call on Santos A2C.  Nice job buddy.  I guess these periods of inactivity continue to be a good thing for him, that was my biggest concern.

    Figured I would just add my Wlad-Tony plays in here along with the rest of you guys.

    .80 of a unit on fight margin less than 3 points after round 3 on Lederman card (+110)
    Even Byrd was able to grab the 1st round from Wlad on Harold's card in that rematch beatdown.  Lately Wlad has not been in a hurry from the get go, besides that joke Austin fight.

    .50 of a unit on Wlad win in round 7-9 (+385)
    2 units on Wlad ITD (-200)
    Reply
    Great call on Santos A2C.  Nice job buddy.  I guess these periods of inactivity continue to be a good thing for him, that was my biggest concern.

    Figured I would just add my Wlad-Tony plays in here along with the rest of you guys.

    .80 of a unit on fight margin less than 3 points after round 3 on Lederman card (+110)
    Even Byrd was able to grab the 1st round from Wlad on Harold's card in that rematch beatdown.  Lately Wlad has not been in a hurry from the get go, besides that joke Austin fight.

    .50 of a unit on Wlad win in round 7-9 (+385)
    2 units on Wlad ITD (-200)
     
    LetMeSpin
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 4:08 PM ET #11

    Fullbrights, we should have just played that prop against each other at -125, +125. I may have fallen for the trap here, but a 10-8 round could always save me. I know you didn't just compare Chris Byrd's slick boxing skills to Tony Thompson though!

    That adjusted round total, wow, it will be a very good fight if we see more than 7 rounds. I don't see how Thompson will be able to possibly stand in front and absorb punishment for a full 12 rounds. To me this fight is going to be Wlad hitting a guy that can't use his feet and has no power until he falls down. It may depend on how much Thompson is willing to eat. I kind of think this is a payday he could never have even imagined, but he would like to survive with minimal brain damage.
    Reply
    Fullbrights, we should have just played that prop against each other at -125, +125. I may have fallen for the trap here, but a 10-8 round could always save me. I know you didn't just compare Chris Byrd's slick boxing skills to Tony Thompson though!

    That adjusted round total, wow, it will be a very good fight if we see more than 7 rounds. I don't see how Thompson will be able to possibly stand in front and absorb punishment for a full 12 rounds. To me this fight is going to be Wlad hitting a guy that can't use his feet and has no power until he falls down. It may depend on how much Thompson is willing to eat. I kind of think this is a payday he could never have even imagined, but he would like to survive with minimal brain damage.
     
    A2C
    A2C
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 5:40 PM ET #12

    Wladimir Klitschko vs. Tony Thompson
    Fight goes 1:30 into 7th round (-137, 5 Dimes)
    + 0.5 unit

    and it continues....
    Reply
    Wladimir Klitschko vs. Tony Thompson
    Fight goes 1:30 into 7th round (-137, 5 Dimes)
    + 0.5 unit

    and it continues....
     
    LetMeSpin
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 6:03 PM ET #13

    Wlad pulls a stoppage out from the fire. I had already written that one off. Great call on the over.
    Reply
    Wlad pulls a stoppage out from the fire. I had already written that one off. Great call on the over.
     
    Fullbrights
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 7:57 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by LetMeSpin:

    Fullbrights, we should have just played that prop against each other at -125, +125. I may have fallen for the trap here, but a 10-8 round could always save me. I know you didn't just compare Chris Byrd's slick boxing skills to Tony Thompson though!

    That adjusted round total, wow, it will be a very good fight if we see more than 7 rounds. I don't see how Thompson will be able to possibly stand in front and absorb punishment for a full 12 rounds. To me this fight is going to be Wlad hitting a guy that can't use his feet and has no power until he falls down. It may depend on how much Thompson is willing to eat. I kind of think this is a payday he could never have even imagined, but he would like to survive with minimal brain damage.


    I actually didn't notice that you were on the opposite side of that prop.  Also, I definitely wasn't comparing Thompson to Byrd.  Mainly saying that even in a Klitschko dominant win Lederman had given the 1st round to Byrd just because he threw a little bit more.  I know Brock and Iggy got at least one of the early rounds on his card also.

    .80 of a unit on fight margin less than 3 points after round 3 on Lederman card (+110)
    .50 of a unit on Wlad win in round 7-9 (+385)
    2 units on Wlad ITD (-200)

    Two out of three on the fight.  Thompson's chin held up a little bit longer than I needed for my KO prop (those were some flush shots he took).  I know hindsight is 20/20, but I I was seriously considering the 10-12 prop at +740 before finally going for 7-9 instead.  Thompson was looking for a way out at the end, but that was a nice finisher on the temple.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by LetMeSpin:

    Fullbrights, we should have just played that prop against each other at -125, +125. I may have fallen for the trap here, but a 10-8 round could always save me. I know you didn't just compare Chris Byrd's slick boxing skills to Tony Thompson though!

    That adjusted round total, wow, it will be a very good fight if we see more than 7 rounds. I don't see how Thompson will be able to possibly stand in front and absorb punishment for a full 12 rounds. To me this fight is going to be Wlad hitting a guy that can't use his feet and has no power until he falls down. It may depend on how much Thompson is willing to eat. I kind of think this is a payday he could never have even imagined, but he would like to survive with minimal brain damage.


    I actually didn't notice that you were on the opposite side of that prop.  Also, I definitely wasn't comparing Thompson to Byrd.  Mainly saying that even in a Klitschko dominant win Lederman had given the 1st round to Byrd just because he threw a little bit more.  I know Brock and Iggy got at least one of the early rounds on his card also.

    .80 of a unit on fight margin less than 3 points after round 3 on Lederman card (+110)
    .50 of a unit on Wlad win in round 7-9 (+385)
    2 units on Wlad ITD (-200)

    Two out of three on the fight.  Thompson's chin held up a little bit longer than I needed for my KO prop (those were some flush shots he took).  I know hindsight is 20/20, but I I was seriously considering the 10-12 prop at +740 before finally going for 7-9 instead.  Thompson was looking for a way out at the end, but that was a nice finisher on the temple.

     
    Fullbrights
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 7:57 PM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by A2C:

    Wladimir Klitschko vs. Tony Thompson
    Fight goes 1:30 into 7th round (-137, 5 Dimes)
    + 0.5 unit

    and it continues....


    Way to keep it going, you are taking care of business lately.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by A2C:

    Wladimir Klitschko vs. Tony Thompson
    Fight goes 1:30 into 7th round (-137, 5 Dimes)
    + 0.5 unit

    and it continues....


    Way to keep it going, you are taking care of business lately.
     
    walktheline
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    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 9:13 PM ET #16

    Nice call on the round seven prop A2C. Got lucky on that right hand, although he should have landed it clean earlier.
    Reply
    Nice call on the round seven prop A2C. Got lucky on that right hand, although he should have landed it clean earlier.
     
    A2C
    A2C
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    Posts: 5053
    Posted: Jul. 12, 2008 - 11:20 PM ET #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Fullbrights:



    Way to keep it going, you are taking care of business lately.


    At that point, I thought we'd see a bit more of an inspired finish.  Tony didn't have much left down the stretch after making the first 5 rounds pretty interesting.

    Meanwhile, it looks like "Archie" is trying to milk some favor from the ref.  Go Glenn!
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullbrights:



    Way to keep it going, you are taking care of business lately.


    At that point, I thought we'd see a bit more of an inspired finish.  Tony didn't have much left down the stretch after making the first 5 rounds pretty interesting.

    Meanwhile, it looks like "Archie" is trying to milk some favor from the ref.  Go Glenn!
     
     
    LetMeSpin
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    Posted: Jul. 13, 2008 - 12:37 AM ET #18

    It's pretty amazing that this is the type of performance for which Wlad is always criticized. He was completely dominant, won practically every round, and finished his man when he had the chance. I don't understand why boxing fans can't appreciate what he does.
    Reply
    It's pretty amazing that this is the type of performance for which Wlad is always criticized. He was completely dominant, won practically every round, and finished his man when he had the chance. I don't understand why boxing fans can't appreciate what he does.
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