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    All Forums | College Football

    #1 reason why 90% of sports bettors are not successful

    «First Previous 123456 Next Last»
    BigShotBill
    TreyInventor
    combato
    lordzud
    beatdareaper
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    BigShotBill
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2013 - 1:39 AM ET #101

    Quote Originally Posted by Alien-1:

    even though you have a 50% chance of hitting either red or black on the wheel........... the underlying principle cannot be carried over to sports betting.

    What you are describing regarding the "gamblers fallacy" is ultimately the equation of chance/probability.

    Great thread man.

    The odds of hitting black or red in roulette is actually 47.37% on each and not 50/50 because of the zero and double zero. In betting every game is 50/50 because you either win or lose and the point spread is the ultimate equalizer.

    One thing I wanted to have you answer because its a hot topic on the boards is the number of games bet in a week. I see some threads where people play 15-20 games in a week . I really fail to see how people can find value in that many games. Also the more games played the harder it is to come out on top. If you play 5 games the odds of you going undefeated is .03125 (.50 to the 5th power) and if you play 15 games its (.50 to the 15th power) which is .000015, so as you can see the more games you play the lower your odds are to beat the books right? Its also hard to believe there is that much value in a given week. Vegas makes mistakes sometimes but they are usually adjusted very soon and they do take baths on games sometimes but they also take positions sometimes on games and win a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien-1:

    even though you have a 50% chance of hitting either red or black on the wheel........... the underlying principle cannot be carried over to sports betting.

    What you are describing regarding the "gamblers fallacy" is ultimately the equation of chance/probability.

    Great thread man.

    The odds of hitting black or red in roulette is actually 47.37% on each and not 50/50 because of the zero and double zero. In betting every game is 50/50 because you either win or lose and the point spread is the ultimate equalizer.

    One thing I wanted to have you answer because its a hot topic on the boards is the number of games bet in a week. I see some threads where people play 15-20 games in a week . I really fail to see how people can find value in that many games. Also the more games played the harder it is to come out on top. If you play 5 games the odds of you going undefeated is .03125 (.50 to the 5th power) and if you play 15 games its (.50 to the 15th power) which is .000015, so as you can see the more games you play the lower your odds are to beat the books right? Its also hard to believe there is that much value in a given week. Vegas makes mistakes sometimes but they are usually adjusted very soon and they do take baths on games sometimes but they also take positions sometimes on games and win a lot.

     
    TreyInventor
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2013 - 1:52 AM ET #102

    Great thread Alien
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    Great thread Alien
     
    combato
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2013 - 12:57 PM ET #103

    There are two viable strategies that I know of  for money management assuming you can estimate your edge correctly on each bet.

    1.  Kelly Criterion = bet the amount of your bankroll relative to your expected EV.  Most people overestimate their edge and will get creamed by overbetting - exactly what Alien posted earlier.

    2.  Flat bet a fixed pct of your bankroll - 1 or 2 pct.  Change your bet size up or down depending on the fluctuations in your bankroll.  In theory, one will never go broke

    At some point, you still have to hit 52.38% winners.  No amount of money management can alter a negative EV.  Ask anyone who has played very long a craps or roulette.

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    There are two viable strategies that I know of  for money management assuming you can estimate your edge correctly on each bet.

    1.  Kelly Criterion = bet the amount of your bankroll relative to your expected EV.  Most people overestimate their edge and will get creamed by overbetting - exactly what Alien posted earlier.

    2.  Flat bet a fixed pct of your bankroll - 1 or 2 pct.  Change your bet size up or down depending on the fluctuations in your bankroll.  In theory, one will never go broke

    At some point, you still have to hit 52.38% winners.  No amount of money management can alter a negative EV.  Ask anyone who has played very long a craps or roulette.

     
    lordzud
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2013 - 3:36 PM ET #104

    bump. I like to see threads that educate betters to money management. It can't be over emphasized because so few sports betters can remain disciplined and adhere to it. 100 threads will tell you WHO to bet on to the one thread that will tell you HOW to bet. 
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    bump. I like to see threads that educate betters to money management. It can't be over emphasized because so few sports betters can remain disciplined and adhere to it. 100 threads will tell you WHO to bet on to the one thread that will tell you HOW to bet. 
     
    beatdareaper
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    Posted: Dec. 3, 2013 - 2:47 AM ET #105

    Great info bro..

    I definitely been down that road..turned $300 into $16000 and blew it all away.  Still affects me to this day, always asking myself how can I be so stupid. Money management is key and you will learn that the hard way. Like you said, picking winners is no problem but if you do not manage your money, you are good as dead.
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    Great info bro..

    I definitely been down that road..turned $300 into $16000 and blew it all away.  Still affects me to this day, always asking myself how can I be so stupid. Money management is key and you will learn that the hard way. Like you said, picking winners is no problem but if you do not manage your money, you are good as dead.
     
    budwiser
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    Posted: Dec. 3, 2013 - 5:55 AM ET #106

    money management/kelly is bs, imo

    the biggest problem with the square bettor is twofold, betting on the wrong team and betting too many games

    but, very few will believe me on this, so be it
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    money management/kelly is bs, imo

    the biggest problem with the square bettor is twofold, betting on the wrong team and betting too many games

    but, very few will believe me on this, so be it
     
    budwiser
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    Posted: Dec. 3, 2013 - 5:58 AM ET #107

    oh yeah one more...chasing your bets after losing (already said)

    i still have that issue
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    oh yeah one more...chasing your bets after losing (already said)

    i still have that issue
     
    fts1409
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    Posted: Dec. 3, 2013 - 6:57 AM ET #108

    Excellent thread w much wisdom.  No having the self discipline is another matter.  The greatest battle is within our head.
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    Excellent thread w much wisdom.  No having the self discipline is another matter.  The greatest battle is within our head.
     
    nc1capper
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    Posted: Dec. 3, 2013 - 10:37 AM ET #109

    I'm thinking discipline falls in this grouping - firing on a bad number , chasing late night , action for sake of action , then wagering to much on that game is the  double whammy 
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    I'm thinking discipline falls in this grouping - firing on a bad number , chasing late night , action for sake of action , then wagering to much on that game is the  double whammy 
     
    WISEGUY36
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    Posted: Dec. 3, 2013 - 10:56 AM ET #110

    Quote Originally Posted by combato:

    There are two viable strategies that I know of  for money management assuming you can estimate your edge correctly on each bet.

    1.  Kelly Criterion = bet the amount of your bankroll relative to your expected EV.  Most people overestimate their edge and will get creamed by overbetting - exactly what Alien posted earlier.

    2.  Flat bet a fixed pct of your bankroll - 1 or 2 pct.  Change your bet size up or down depending on the fluctuations in your bankroll.  In theory, one will never go broke

    At some point, you still have to hit 52.38% winners.  No amount of money management can alter a negative EV.  Ask anyone who has played very long a craps or roulette.





    Both of these statements are very important

    remember if you want to be successful in sports betting .
    To achieve success you must do the following:

    1. Keep accurate records of your win /loss percentage
        every year as this should tell you if you are improving
        in your handicapping technique and how much you
        you should place on each wager to be able to stay in
        the game.
       You must strive to improve your chances of winning
       if you want to be profitable at it.

    2. Keep accurate records of what criteria you used to
        select a prop to wager on.After the game, check your
        strategy vs the published box score for the contest to
       determine if your analysis was correct. if so :
              A.  Continue with that strategy and seek ways to
                    improve your accuracy.
       If not :
              B. Seek to determine why the result differed from
                   your expectation and modify your strategy
                   accordingly.

     Unfortunately most are too lazy to make the effort to
     learn and are more likely to tail someone else . This
    puts you completely at the mercy of someone else's
    handicapping skills , I do not recommend this as a
    handicapping method , as you can see by this forum
    everyone has an opinion ..... but they all can't be right.

    I recommend to most rather than throw your money away
    hoping you will win , take your wife and kids on vacation ,
    you'll get a greater return on your investment. But , if you
    are humble, willing to admit you need to improve your
    skills , and diligently make the effort to do so, this crazy
    thing we do every College Football season can be very
    rewarding.

    Best of Luck to ALL 
    Helping Kama'aina to beat their " Local " since 1994.
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    Quote Originally Posted by combato:

    There are two viable strategies that I know of  for money management assuming you can estimate your edge correctly on each bet.

    1.  Kelly Criterion = bet the amount of your bankroll relative to your expected EV.  Most people overestimate their edge and will get creamed by overbetting - exactly what Alien posted earlier.

    2.  Flat bet a fixed pct of your bankroll - 1 or 2 pct.  Change your bet size up or down depending on the fluctuations in your bankroll.  In theory, one will never go broke

    At some point, you still have to hit 52.38% winners.  No amount of money management can alter a negative EV.  Ask anyone who has played very long a craps or roulette.





    Both of these statements are very important

    remember if you want to be successful in sports betting .
    To achieve success you must do the following:

    1. Keep accurate records of your win /loss percentage
        every year as this should tell you if you are improving
        in your handicapping technique and how much you
        you should place on each wager to be able to stay in
        the game.
       You must strive to improve your chances of winning
       if you want to be profitable at it.

    2. Keep accurate records of what criteria you used to
        select a prop to wager on.After the game, check your
        strategy vs the published box score for the contest to
       determine if your analysis was correct. if so :
              A.  Continue with that strategy and seek ways to
                    improve your accuracy.
       If not :
              B. Seek to determine why the result differed from
                   your expectation and modify your strategy
                   accordingly.

     Unfortunately most are too lazy to make the effort to
     learn and are more likely to tail someone else . This
    puts you completely at the mercy of someone else's
    handicapping skills , I do not recommend this as a
    handicapping method , as you can see by this forum
    everyone has an opinion ..... but they all can't be right.

    I recommend to most rather than throw your money away
    hoping you will win , take your wife and kids on vacation ,
    you'll get a greater return on your investment. But , if you
    are humble, willing to admit you need to improve your
    skills , and diligently make the effort to do so, this crazy
    thing we do every College Football season can be very
    rewarding.

    Best of Luck to ALL 
     
    sdsufred7
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    Posted: Dec. 3, 2013 - 11:35 AM ET #111

    Great thread Alien - Been using this system since 1980,
    when i'm up - i bet between 50 to 100 per game.
    When i'm down, chip away at 25 per game. It's helped
    me maintain my bankroll throughout the years.
    NEVER CHASE - LEARNED THAT LESSON A LONG TIME AGO !
    GL !
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    Great thread Alien - Been using this system since 1980,
    when i'm up - i bet between 50 to 100 per game.
    When i'm down, chip away at 25 per game. It's helped
    me maintain my bankroll throughout the years.
    NEVER CHASE - LEARNED THAT LESSON A LONG TIME AGO !
    GL !
     
    sparty444
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    Posted: Dec. 3, 2013 - 11:38 AM ET #112

    The OP made some sense early in the thread...and then completely lost it when he showed no understanding of mathematics/probability. 
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    The OP made some sense early in the thread...and then completely lost it when he showed no understanding of mathematics/probability. 
     
    TigerTy
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    Posted: Dec. 6, 2013 - 9:55 PM ET #113

    Yep, started with 100, got up to 500 over two weeks, and lost it all the next day.

    Lesson learned.
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    Yep, started with 100, got up to 500 over two weeks, and lost it all the next day.

    Lesson learned.
     
    Tommyweather
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    Posted: Dec. 6, 2013 - 10:09 PM ET #114

    Two words, unrealistic expectations.  People think they will win 80% of the time but the real pros usually win just 56-57% of the time.  With unrealistic expectations of winning people bet way too much money on each game.  They think they are just a play away from getting back on the winning side.
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    Two words, unrealistic expectations.  People think they will win 80% of the time but the real pros usually win just 56-57% of the time.  With unrealistic expectations of winning people bet way too much money on each game.  They think they are just a play away from getting back on the winning side.
     
    WinsNow999
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    Posted: Dec. 6, 2013 - 10:20 PM ET #115

    Two words .....Stubborn....and chasing your losses!!!
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    Two words .....Stubborn....and chasing your losses!!!
     
    BainMasters
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    Posted: Dec. 6, 2013 - 11:10 PM ET #116

    Quote Originally Posted by combato:

    There are two viable strategies that I know of  for money management assuming you can estimate your edge correctly on each bet.

    1.  Kelly Criterion = bet the amount of your bankroll relative to your expected EV.  Most people overestimate their edge and will get creamed by overbetting - exactly what Alien posted earlier.

    2.  Flat bet a fixed pct of your bankroll - 1 or 2 pct.  Change your bet size up or down depending on the fluctuations in your bankroll.  In theory, one will never go broke

    At some point, you still have to hit 52.38% winners.  No amount of money management can alter a negative EV.  Ask anyone who has played very long a craps or roulette.


    Most important info on the board for long term success. All of it. Most people don't have the emotional discipline to be consistent at anything that is based on probability. Even if you are an all world handicapper you lose 40% of the time, sometimes in streaks. How many people can stomach their best plays losing on bad beats one after another and not tilt? Only a few. 

    To the other poster that said limit your plays, if you have a positive EV > 52% threshold you should make as many plays as possible to maximize your profits taking care to play same unit sizes b/c you will lose 48% of the time. Make sure to line shop too some of these bookmakers cough...Bovada...cough shade the lines so bad or up the juice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by combato:

    There are two viable strategies that I know of  for money management assuming you can estimate your edge correctly on each bet.

    1.  Kelly Criterion = bet the amount of your bankroll relative to your expected EV.  Most people overestimate their edge and will get creamed by overbetting - exactly what Alien posted earlier.

    2.  Flat bet a fixed pct of your bankroll - 1 or 2 pct.  Change your bet size up or down depending on the fluctuations in your bankroll.  In theory, one will never go broke

    At some point, you still have to hit 52.38% winners.  No amount of money management can alter a negative EV.  Ask anyone who has played very long a craps or roulette.


    Most important info on the board for long term success. All of it. Most people don't have the emotional discipline to be consistent at anything that is based on probability. Even if you are an all world handicapper you lose 40% of the time, sometimes in streaks. How many people can stomach their best plays losing on bad beats one after another and not tilt? Only a few. 

    To the other poster that said limit your plays, if you have a positive EV > 52% threshold you should make as many plays as possible to maximize your profits taking care to play same unit sizes b/c you will lose 48% of the time. Make sure to line shop too some of these bookmakers cough...Bovada...cough shade the lines so bad or up the juice.
     
    tedwalsh7
    tedwalsh7
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2013 - 8:10 AM ET #117

    Alien-1

     

    I JUST WANT TO SAY EVERYTHING U HAVE SAID HAS HAPPENED TO ME AND PROB MOST PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM..

     

    Back in 2007 I won 42 out of 45 days and felt like I couldn't be touched. I felt so damn good.. I then had weeks where I won for 13 out of 16 days.

     

    My issues where I still get stuck today is the following:

    Why do some days u can lose and u still feel in the zone and a loss doesn't matter bc u still feel confident in what u r doing.

    Then you may have a day where u lose and it pisses u off and then u CHASE.. is it just the human nature?? to let us get out of control and get upset??

    I don't know how to grade games. Like everyone looks at #'s and run what they run but if ur bank roll is 2k.. like how do u know what a good bet and whats not.. we all can say yeah I like this bet, I love it, or I hate it but trying to figure out what is a good bet size for you to be happy with and make money time over time...

    I feel in sports betting there are a few factors that HELP KEEP PEOPLE being bad bettors

    > GREED

    > NO MONEY MGT SKILLS

    > BACK TO THE MOVIE 2 FOR THE MONEY.. WE HAVE THIS NEED TO FEEL A WIN.. WEL HOW MUCH MONEY DO U NEED TO FEEL A WIN BC U KNOW DOWN THE ROAD YOU WILL GIVE IT BACK...

    I have been betting for 9 yrs now and when I was first started I was doing just enough betting to get gas, food and I was like how can people bet 500 or more on a game.. I thought 50 was a lot..

    My happy bet is 200 a game., I feel good about that but when I got older and I got to see how much u can win it made me bet more. VERY horrible bc it killed me many times

    Many and I mean many times I lose my bank roll I put in 500 and I can build it up to say 2/3K and while I build it I can do it maybe in 3/5 days and I do average size bets and then BOOM u get to cocky and bet a game half the size of ur bank roll and u lose and then guess what U CHASE and lose it all and there goes ur 500

     

    GAMBLING can be good but its the greed, money mgt, its the human nature to not let ur emotions get you..

     

    THIs part drives me nuts how many times it WINS

     

    Do you know how many times a game is on a sch and I say YES no way that team loses.. for example last night when I saw last week it would be BG vs NI.. I said no way BG wins...  Its amazing games that I say oh yes they wont lose, DO LOSE

    I say its 90% of the time u look at nothing and a game stands out to u and u r so thick headed that the play is OPP and it wins.. It happens to me and I know it most happen to you

     

    But just thought I throw my 2 cents in

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    Alien-1

     

    I JUST WANT TO SAY EVERYTHING U HAVE SAID HAS HAPPENED TO ME AND PROB MOST PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM..

     

    Back in 2007 I won 42 out of 45 days and felt like I couldn't be touched. I felt so damn good.. I then had weeks where I won for 13 out of 16 days.

     

    My issues where I still get stuck today is the following:

    Why do some days u can lose and u still feel in the zone and a loss doesn't matter bc u still feel confident in what u r doing.

    Then you may have a day where u lose and it pisses u off and then u CHASE.. is it just the human nature?? to let us get out of control and get upset??

    I don't know how to grade games. Like everyone looks at #'s and run what they run but if ur bank roll is 2k.. like how do u know what a good bet and whats not.. we all can say yeah I like this bet, I love it, or I hate it but trying to figure out what is a good bet size for you to be happy with and make money time over time...

    I feel in sports betting there are a few factors that HELP KEEP PEOPLE being bad bettors

    > GREED

    > NO MONEY MGT SKILLS

    > BACK TO THE MOVIE 2 FOR THE MONEY.. WE HAVE THIS NEED TO FEEL A WIN.. WEL HOW MUCH MONEY DO U NEED TO FEEL A WIN BC U KNOW DOWN THE ROAD YOU WILL GIVE IT BACK...

    I have been betting for 9 yrs now and when I was first started I was doing just enough betting to get gas, food and I was like how can people bet 500 or more on a game.. I thought 50 was a lot..

    My happy bet is 200 a game., I feel good about that but when I got older and I got to see how much u can win it made me bet more. VERY horrible bc it killed me many times

    Many and I mean many times I lose my bank roll I put in 500 and I can build it up to say 2/3K and while I build it I can do it maybe in 3/5 days and I do average size bets and then BOOM u get to cocky and bet a game half the size of ur bank roll and u lose and then guess what U CHASE and lose it all and there goes ur 500

     

    GAMBLING can be good but its the greed, money mgt, its the human nature to not let ur emotions get you..

     

    THIs part drives me nuts how many times it WINS

     

    Do you know how many times a game is on a sch and I say YES no way that team loses.. for example last night when I saw last week it would be BG vs NI.. I said no way BG wins...  Its amazing games that I say oh yes they wont lose, DO LOSE

    I say its 90% of the time u look at nothing and a game stands out to u and u r so thick headed that the play is OPP and it wins.. It happens to me and I know it most happen to you

     

    But just thought I throw my 2 cents in

     
    TigerTy
    TigerTy
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    Posted: Dec. 15, 2013 - 6:39 PM ET #118

    seahawks and saints a couple of weeks ago.

    I bet 85 of my winnings on the over which was 48 because I was sure it would. Got excited because the score was 28 to 7 at the half. I turned game off knowing it was easy money.

    I woke up the next day, went to the website with smiles on my face and saw the money lost.

    I was thinking "wtf" in the head as I saw the final score......35-7

    Yeah............
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    seahawks and saints a couple of weeks ago.

    I bet 85 of my winnings on the over which was 48 because I was sure it would. Got excited because the score was 28 to 7 at the half. I turned game off knowing it was easy money.

    I woke up the next day, went to the website with smiles on my face and saw the money lost.

    I was thinking "wtf" in the head as I saw the final score......35-7

    Yeah............
     
    RossDaMan
    RossDaMan
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    Posted: Dec. 15, 2013 - 8:45 PM ET #119

    I bet %2 of my bankroll per play(1 Unit=%2...ex. 1 unit on a $1000 bankroll would be $20 bets) and I bet ALL plays I like as 1 unit...very rarely will I do a DOUBLE unit play!! I bet just an avg. of 3-7 plays a day I feel CONFIDENT about Win OR Lose...NEVER ADD-ON plays UNLESS you get new info(injury/late scratc7/lineup c7ange...etc.) Basically, it gives you a 50-unit bankroll and if you lose 50-units...you STINK anyways, and need to quit sports gambling...LOL!

    All you gotta do now is WIN...Doesn't even gotta be big or alot, just a little at a time is good and you can profit(%52.4 or %52.6(I forgot exact #) TO BEAT avg -110 juice) I TRY to avg 8-12 units/mo. and if you can manage to keep adding to your bankroll you can increase your bet amounts still using only %2($1000/20 could grow into $2000/40 and eventually into a million bucks+++, as long as you keep winning of course) GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY!!! :)  

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    I bet %2 of my bankroll per play(1 Unit=%2...ex. 1 unit on a $1000 bankroll would be $20 bets) and I bet ALL plays I like as 1 unit...very rarely will I do a DOUBLE unit play!! I bet just an avg. of 3-7 plays a day I feel CONFIDENT about Win OR Lose...NEVER ADD-ON plays UNLESS you get new info(injury/late scratc7/lineup c7ange...etc.) Basically, it gives you a 50-unit bankroll and if you lose 50-units...you STINK anyways, and need to quit sports gambling...LOL!

    All you gotta do now is WIN...Doesn't even gotta be big or alot, just a little at a time is good and you can profit(%52.4 or %52.6(I forgot exact #) TO BEAT avg -110 juice) I TRY to avg 8-12 units/mo. and if you can manage to keep adding to your bankroll you can increase your bet amounts still using only %2($1000/20 could grow into $2000/40 and eventually into a million bucks+++, as long as you keep winning of course) GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY!!! :)  

     
    CoverMyLosses
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    Posted: Dec. 16, 2013 - 12:29 AM ET #120

    Love the useful information in this thread, even though most of us know the do and don't from sports investment, it is good to be reminded every once in awhile.
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    Love the useful information in this thread, even though most of us know the do and don't from sports investment, it is good to be reminded every once in awhile.
     
    Peripatetic
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    Posted: Dec. 16, 2013 - 4:52 PM ET #121

    ....they bet too many games...not too much per game
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    ....they bet too many games...not too much per game
     
    MEGALOCKS
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    Posted: Dec. 16, 2013 - 6:59 PM ET #122

    If u dont bet more than 2 percent per game even a bad week like 1-8 won't wipe u out. 

    Great work guys

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    If u dont bet more than 2 percent per game even a bad week like 1-8 won't wipe u out. 

    Great work guys

     
    brently31
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    Posted: Dec. 16, 2013 - 11:43 PM ET #123

    I have had to stop betting this year because I used very poor money management. I even borrowed $$ which I am paying off monthly. I think you have a great idea!! My main problem is becoming to emotional on a game and chasing!!

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    I have had to stop betting this year because I used very poor money management. I even borrowed $$ which I am paying off monthly. I think you have a great idea!! My main problem is becoming to emotional on a game and chasing!!

     
    warcameagle56
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    Posted: Dec. 17, 2013 - 3:42 AM ET #124

    One of the biggest reasons people don't win is they don't watch enough games...u have to watch the games and learn teams matchups.Peace
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    One of the biggest reasons people don't win is they don't watch enough games...u have to watch the games and learn teams matchups.Peace
     
     
    Gumbajohnny
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    Posted: Dec. 17, 2013 - 7:39 AM ET #125

    Quote Originally Posted by warcameagle56:

    One of the biggest reasons people don't win is they don't watch enough games...u have to watch the games and learn teams matchups.Peace


    100% agree..

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    Quote Originally Posted by warcameagle56:

    One of the biggest reasons people don't win is they don't watch enough games...u have to watch the games and learn teams matchups.Peace


    100% agree..

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