Maybe you are ignoring the part of the man living in the fish for 3 days or the part about the "worldwide" flood. Or maybe the part about people living 700 years.
what am i ignoring? why don't you disprove it?
but before you get to trying to disprove those, you better figure out jesus first and then move to the other tough things. not believing in jonah's story has zero consequences for your life.
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
Oh please.
Maybe you are ignoring the part of the man living in the fish for 3 days or the part about the "worldwide" flood. Or maybe the part about people living 700 years.
what am i ignoring? why don't you disprove it?
but before you get to trying to disprove those, you better figure out jesus first and then move to the other tough things. not believing in jonah's story has zero consequences for your life.
but before you get to trying to disprove those, you better figure out jesus first and then move to the other tough things. not believing in jonah's story has zero consequences for your life.
Oh SNAP!!!! LOL that was actually pretty good intelligent humour and true!
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Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
what am i ignoring? why don't you disprove it?
but before you get to trying to disprove those, you better figure out jesus first and then move to the other tough things. not believing in jonah's story has zero consequences for your life.
Oh SNAP!!!! LOL that was actually pretty good intelligent humour and true!
i'm sure i'll be waiting forever for that so please answer this...
why does "doubt" get to be more virtuous than faith? and actually not believing in Christianity takes the same amount of faith, but in different things.
answer these questions if you don't believe Christianity...
- where did we come from?
- why are we here?
- where are we going?
answer those without using faith and you can be the first to criticize the faith of Christianity.
if you say you don't have the answers, that is your answer and you are still using much faith.
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Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
why don't you disprove it?
i'm sure i'll be waiting forever for that so please answer this...
why does "doubt" get to be more virtuous than faith? and actually not believing in Christianity takes the same amount of faith, but in different things.
answer these questions if you don't believe Christianity...
- where did we come from?
- why are we here?
- where are we going?
answer those without using faith and you can be the first to criticize the faith of Christianity.
if you say you don't have the answers, that is your answer and you are still using much faith.
i'm sure i'll be waiting forever for that so please answer this...
why does "doubt" get to be more virtuous than faith? and actually not believing in Christianity takes the same amount of faith, but in different things.
answer these questions if you don't believe Christianity...
- where did we come from?
- why are we here?
- where are we going?
answer those without using faith and you can be the first to criticize the faith of Christianity.
if you say you don't have the answers, that is your answer and you are still using much faith.
Now I have to disprove that a person didnt live in a fish for 3 days, that Noah got every species on an ark, and that people used to live for 700 years. OK. I can see you are looking for a serious, intelligent debate.
- where did we come from? I dont know
- why are we here? I dont know
- where are we going? I dont know - my assumption is that when we die reality as we know it ceases to exist, and our flesh becomes part of the circle of life.
There. I just answered those without faith. I now have your approval to criticize religion.
Jeesh. The intellectuals have arrived. Cant someone on your side of this debate offer up somehting more than this drivel? Like CD did earlier in the thread?
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Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
i'm sure i'll be waiting forever for that so please answer this...
why does "doubt" get to be more virtuous than faith? and actually not believing in Christianity takes the same amount of faith, but in different things.
answer these questions if you don't believe Christianity...
- where did we come from?
- why are we here?
- where are we going?
answer those without using faith and you can be the first to criticize the faith of Christianity.
if you say you don't have the answers, that is your answer and you are still using much faith.
Now I have to disprove that a person didnt live in a fish for 3 days, that Noah got every species on an ark, and that people used to live for 700 years. OK. I can see you are looking for a serious, intelligent debate.
- where did we come from? I dont know
- why are we here? I dont know
- where are we going? I dont know - my assumption is that when we die reality as we know it ceases to exist, and our flesh becomes part of the circle of life.
There. I just answered those without faith. I now have your approval to criticize religion.
Jeesh. The intellectuals have arrived. Cant someone on your side of this debate offer up somehting more than this drivel? Like CD did earlier in the thread?
yes, it has been used for many terrorizing things. but the difference b/w a Christian who kills and an Atheist who kills is that the Christian is working in violation of his beliefs but an Atheist's killing is the legitimate outworking of his belief.
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Quote Originally Posted by RJSmith:
RELIGION IS TERROR!
yes, it has been used for many terrorizing things. but the difference b/w a Christian who kills and an Atheist who kills is that the Christian is working in violation of his beliefs but an Atheist's killing is the legitimate outworking of his belief.
van, it takes a ton of faith to answer "i don't know" to all those (how can you not see that). and you are also saying "no" to every worldview out there. that is a very restrictive worldview in itself.
and why are you debating with so much name calling and hate?
0
van, it takes a ton of faith to answer "i don't know" to all those (how can you not see that). and you are also saying "no" to every worldview out there. that is a very restrictive worldview in itself.
and why are you debating with so much name calling and hate?
yes, it has been used for many terrorizing things. but the difference b/w a Christian who kills and an Atheist who kills is that the Christian is working in violation of his beliefs but an Atheist's killing is the legitimate outworking of his belief.
Huh?
Atheists dont believe anything. They are called "non-believers" for a reason. Your statement is so flawed on so many levels it is silly, and you are seriously misguided.
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0
Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
yes, it has been used for many terrorizing things. but the difference b/w a Christian who kills and an Atheist who kills is that the Christian is working in violation of his beliefs but an Atheist's killing is the legitimate outworking of his belief.
Huh?
Atheists dont believe anything. They are called "non-believers" for a reason. Your statement is so flawed on so many levels it is silly, and you are seriously misguided.
yes, it has been used for many terrorizing things. but the difference b/w a Christian who kills and an Atheist who kills is that the Christian is working in violation of his beliefs but an Atheist's killing is the legitimate outworking of his belief.
This is a ridiculous statement. You have got to be kidding me.
Horrible logic. Really mind-boggling.
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Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
yes, it has been used for many terrorizing things. but the difference b/w a Christian who kills and an Atheist who kills is that the Christian is working in violation of his beliefs but an Atheist's killing is the legitimate outworking of his belief.
This is a ridiculous statement. You have got to be kidding me.
you can't not believe anything. i.e. you believe that you have to prove something (scientifically?) for it to be true. that is a fundamental belief of yours, correct?
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you still believe that nothing is believable.
you can't not believe anything. i.e. you believe that you have to prove something (scientifically?) for it to be true. that is a fundamental belief of yours, correct?
One thing that separates atheists from just total retards is Christ himself. I love the atheists that discount him even living as well as the other prophets.
These people lived and were persecuted and most crucified or murdered in some way. That Van is FACT.
Now I don't think your one of the stupid atheist's because you are quite intelligent and I really respect you and your thoughts but you at least have to admit that they lived. It is straight documented that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified. The whole thing is was he the son of god which you obviously don;'t believe. Just don't be a fool that doesn't even believe he existed.
0
One thing that separates atheists from just total retards is Christ himself. I love the atheists that discount him even living as well as the other prophets.
These people lived and were persecuted and most crucified or murdered in some way. That Van is FACT.
Now I don't think your one of the stupid atheist's because you are quite intelligent and I really respect you and your thoughts but you at least have to admit that they lived. It is straight documented that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified. The whole thing is was he the son of god which you obviously don;'t believe. Just don't be a fool that doesn't even believe he existed.
van, it takes a ton of faith to answer "i don't know" to all those (how can you not see that). and you are also saying "no" to every worldview out there. that is a very restrictive worldview in itself.
and why are you debating with so much name calling and hate?
Hate? Come on. There is no hate. I know you as a christian love to feel persecuted, but there is no hate here.
There is no restrictive world view in my position. I reject anyone who says that they know where we came from, why we are here, and what god is the correct god. I reject them because I reject the notion that it is possible to know these things at this point in time of human history.
What is so difficult to understand about that? The funny thing is that out of the thousands of religions, you are positive that your god and your book and your beliefs are correct.
But yet you dont really, you are a fake believer. If you were a true believer in Jesus, you wouldnt be wasting time on a gambling website, you would be working to help the world. You dont really believe, you like 99.9% of people who say they believe just hedge your bets and hope that partially believing - enough to say you believe without doing any real action or actually living the life that you should be living - will be enough to get you where you want to go when you die. Face it, you dont really believe it all - or you wouldnt be here - you wouldnt have that job - you wouldnt have that car - Jesus would be appalled with you and your lifestyle.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
0
Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
van, it takes a ton of faith to answer "i don't know" to all those (how can you not see that). and you are also saying "no" to every worldview out there. that is a very restrictive worldview in itself.
and why are you debating with so much name calling and hate?
Hate? Come on. There is no hate. I know you as a christian love to feel persecuted, but there is no hate here.
There is no restrictive world view in my position. I reject anyone who says that they know where we came from, why we are here, and what god is the correct god. I reject them because I reject the notion that it is possible to know these things at this point in time of human history.
What is so difficult to understand about that? The funny thing is that out of the thousands of religions, you are positive that your god and your book and your beliefs are correct.
But yet you dont really, you are a fake believer. If you were a true believer in Jesus, you wouldnt be wasting time on a gambling website, you would be working to help the world. You dont really believe, you like 99.9% of people who say they believe just hedge your bets and hope that partially believing - enough to say you believe without doing any real action or actually living the life that you should be living - will be enough to get you where you want to go when you die. Face it, you dont really believe it all - or you wouldnt be here - you wouldnt have that job - you wouldnt have that car - Jesus would be appalled with you and your lifestyle.
Atheists dont believe anything. They are called "non-believers" for a reason. Your statement is so flawed on so many levels it is silly, and you are seriously misguided.
in an atheist worldview, who's to say i can't kill you? what morality are you using to tell me i can't?
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
Huh?
Atheists dont believe anything. They are called "non-believers" for a reason. Your statement is so flawed on so many levels it is silly, and you are seriously misguided.
in an atheist worldview, who's to say i can't kill you? what morality are you using to tell me i can't?
you can't not believe anything. i.e. you believe that you have to prove something (scientifically?) for it to be true. that is a fundamental belief of yours, correct?
I "believe" that replicable evidence is the best tool we humans have to understand our surroundings. Is it perfect? Probably not. Do we understand everything? No way.
I replicable evidence better than a 2,000 year old book written by morons by todays standards? I feel stupid for even answering the question.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
you still believe that nothing is believable.
you can't not believe anything. i.e. you believe that you have to prove something (scientifically?) for it to be true. that is a fundamental belief of yours, correct?
I "believe" that replicable evidence is the best tool we humans have to understand our surroundings. Is it perfect? Probably not. Do we understand everything? No way.
I replicable evidence better than a 2,000 year old book written by morons by todays standards? I feel stupid for even answering the question.
in an atheist worldview, who's to say i can't kill you? what morality are you using to tell me i can't?
Humanist morality.
Why do you nutjobs all feel that morality comes from god or religion?
I dont want to kill anyone because I feel it wrong, not because the boogeyman in the closet will punish me. I also live in a civilized society that has rules that benefit the common good of humans, and killing is against those rules.
You have to do better than that. I dont want you to feel persecuted, but I feel like this discussion has gone down about 10 grade levels since you arrived.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
0
Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
in an atheist worldview, who's to say i can't kill you? what morality are you using to tell me i can't?
Humanist morality.
Why do you nutjobs all feel that morality comes from god or religion?
I dont want to kill anyone because I feel it wrong, not because the boogeyman in the closet will punish me. I also live in a civilized society that has rules that benefit the common good of humans, and killing is against those rules.
You have to do better than that. I dont want you to feel persecuted, but I feel like this discussion has gone down about 10 grade levels since you arrived.
Hate? Come on. There is no hate. I know you as a christian love to feel persecuted, but there is no hate here.
There is no restrictive world view in my position. I reject anyone who says that they know where we came from, why we are here, and what god is the correct god. I reject them because I reject the notion that it is possible to know these things at this point in time of human history.
What is so difficult to understand about that? The funny thing is that out of the thousands of religions, you are positive that your god and your book and your beliefs are correct.
But yet you dont really, you are a fake believer. If you were a true believer in Jesus, you wouldnt be wasting time on a gambling website, you would be working to help the world. You dont really believe, you like 99.9% of people who say they believe just hedge your bets and hope that partially believing - enough to say you believe without doing any real action or actually living the life that you should be living - will be enough to get you where you want to go when you die. Face it, you dont really believe it all - or you wouldnt be here - you wouldnt have that job - you wouldnt have that car - Jesus would be appalled with you and your lifestyle.
you are getting way past foundational logic here.
to my point again, you say "I reject them because I reject the notion that it is possible to know these things at this point in time of human history."
this is a statement of profound faith. you have as much (or more) faith than i do to believe this.
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
Hate? Come on. There is no hate. I know you as a christian love to feel persecuted, but there is no hate here.
There is no restrictive world view in my position. I reject anyone who says that they know where we came from, why we are here, and what god is the correct god. I reject them because I reject the notion that it is possible to know these things at this point in time of human history.
What is so difficult to understand about that? The funny thing is that out of the thousands of religions, you are positive that your god and your book and your beliefs are correct.
But yet you dont really, you are a fake believer. If you were a true believer in Jesus, you wouldnt be wasting time on a gambling website, you would be working to help the world. You dont really believe, you like 99.9% of people who say they believe just hedge your bets and hope that partially believing - enough to say you believe without doing any real action or actually living the life that you should be living - will be enough to get you where you want to go when you die. Face it, you dont really believe it all - or you wouldnt be here - you wouldnt have that job - you wouldnt have that car - Jesus would be appalled with you and your lifestyle.
you are getting way past foundational logic here.
to my point again, you say "I reject them because I reject the notion that it is possible to know these things at this point in time of human history."
this is a statement of profound faith. you have as much (or more) faith than i do to believe this.
One thing that separates atheists from just total retards is Christ himself. I love the atheists that discount him even living as well as the other prophets.
These people lived and were persecuted and most crucified or murdered in some way. That Van is FACT.
Now I don't think your one of the stupid atheist's because you are quite intelligent and I really respect you and your thoughts but you at least have to admit that they lived. It is straight documented that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified. The whole thing is was he the son of god which you obviously don;'t believe. Just don't be a fool that doesn't even believe he existed.
Fact might be a stretch, but lets assume for the sake of discussion that it was a fact that Jesus and his buddies actually existed.
Your point?
History is littered with people who lived and died who claimed to be dieties. If the Mayans were better survivalists, you would be worshipping the sun god right now, and you wouldnt even know a cat named Jesus existed. You just happen to be raised in a time and place where Jesus is more popular than the thousands of other gods and stories. Do you realize that if you were born in India you would be Hindu and you would be rejecting Jesus right now? Do you realize that if you were born in Iran you would also be rejecting Jesus?
You cant be that naive.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
0
Quote Originally Posted by minion0812:
One thing that separates atheists from just total retards is Christ himself. I love the atheists that discount him even living as well as the other prophets.
These people lived and were persecuted and most crucified or murdered in some way. That Van is FACT.
Now I don't think your one of the stupid atheist's because you are quite intelligent and I really respect you and your thoughts but you at least have to admit that they lived. It is straight documented that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified. The whole thing is was he the son of god which you obviously don;'t believe. Just don't be a fool that doesn't even believe he existed.
Fact might be a stretch, but lets assume for the sake of discussion that it was a fact that Jesus and his buddies actually existed.
Your point?
History is littered with people who lived and died who claimed to be dieties. If the Mayans were better survivalists, you would be worshipping the sun god right now, and you wouldnt even know a cat named Jesus existed. You just happen to be raised in a time and place where Jesus is more popular than the thousands of other gods and stories. Do you realize that if you were born in India you would be Hindu and you would be rejecting Jesus right now? Do you realize that if you were born in Iran you would also be rejecting Jesus?
to my point again, you say "I reject them because I reject the notion that it is possible to know these things at this point in time of human history."
this is a statement of profound faith. you have as much (or more) faith than i do to believe this.
I am too stupid to understand how this is faith, or is relative to anything to advance your position. Please explain.
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Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
you are getting way past foundational logic here.
to my point again, you say "I reject them because I reject the notion that it is possible to know these things at this point in time of human history."
this is a statement of profound faith. you have as much (or more) faith than i do to believe this.
I am too stupid to understand how this is faith, or is relative to anything to advance your position. Please explain.
so what if i "feel" it is right for me to kill you (i.e. extreme muslims AND CHRISTIANS). why do you get to do what you "feel" is right, but tell them they can't?
Fixed it for you above. Love the fact that you think extreme muslims are the ones who feel it right to kill for their faith, not you.
But on to your question.....
If you feel it is ok to kill me, I am protected by societal laws.
Easy. Next?
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Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:
so what if i "feel" it is right for me to kill you (i.e. extreme muslims AND CHRISTIANS). why do you get to do what you "feel" is right, but tell them they can't?
Fixed it for you above. Love the fact that you think extreme muslims are the ones who feel it right to kill for their faith, not you.
But on to your question.....
If you feel it is ok to kill me, I am protected by societal laws.
Fact might be a stretch, but lets assume for the sake of discussion that it was a fact that Jesus and his buddies actually existed.
Your point?
History is littered with people who lived and died who claimed to be dieties. If the Mayans were better survivalists, you would be worshipping the sun god right now, and you wouldnt even know a cat named Jesus existed. You just happen to be raised in a time and place where Jesus is more popular than the thousands of other gods and stories. Do you realize that if you were born in India you would be Hindu and you would be rejecting Jesus right now? Do you realize that if you were born in Iran you would also be rejecting Jesus?
You cant be that naive.
but you have to subject yourself to the same cultural condition. if you didn't live in x, you wouldn't have the paradigm for "unbelief".
so we are on equal ground there.
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
Fact might be a stretch, but lets assume for the sake of discussion that it was a fact that Jesus and his buddies actually existed.
Your point?
History is littered with people who lived and died who claimed to be dieties. If the Mayans were better survivalists, you would be worshipping the sun god right now, and you wouldnt even know a cat named Jesus existed. You just happen to be raised in a time and place where Jesus is more popular than the thousands of other gods and stories. Do you realize that if you were born in India you would be Hindu and you would be rejecting Jesus right now? Do you realize that if you were born in Iran you would also be rejecting Jesus?
You cant be that naive.
but you have to subject yourself to the same cultural condition. if you didn't live in x, you wouldn't have the paradigm for "unbelief".
I love how Sims - and everyone else ignores this paragraph - I wrote it earlier in the thread and nobody touched it - and nobody will touch it again:
But yet you dont really, you are a fake believer. If you were a true believer in Jesus, you wouldnt be wasting time on a gambling website, you would be working to help the world. You dont really believe, you like 99.9% of people who say they believe just hedge your bets and hope that partially believing - enough to say you believe without doing any real action or actually living the life that you should be living - will be enough to get you where you want to go when you die. Face it, you dont really believe it all - or you wouldnt be here - you wouldnt have that job - you wouldnt have that car - Jesus would be appalled with you and your lifestyle.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
0
I love how Sims - and everyone else ignores this paragraph - I wrote it earlier in the thread and nobody touched it - and nobody will touch it again:
But yet you dont really, you are a fake believer. If you were a true believer in Jesus, you wouldnt be wasting time on a gambling website, you would be working to help the world. You dont really believe, you like 99.9% of people who say they believe just hedge your bets and hope that partially believing - enough to say you believe without doing any real action or actually living the life that you should be living - will be enough to get you where you want to go when you die. Face it, you dont really believe it all - or you wouldnt be here - you wouldnt have that job - you wouldnt have that car - Jesus would be appalled with you and your lifestyle.
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