@Raiders22
there are no other "crypto" etfs. ethereum is being sued by the sec for being an unregistered security. that's what they all are.
what im saying is after the price returns to it's all time highs, historically the price doubles. im not talking about the halving. once in 80 means: one of the 4 cycles it doubled in 80 days, the worst one
@Hawky
there are no other "crypto" etfs.
What do you mean by this?
what im saying is after the price returns to it's all time highs, historically the price doubles. im not talking about the halving. once in 80 means: one of the 4 cycles it doubled in 80 days, the worst one
I still do not understand what you mean by this either? Obviously, once it reaches all time highs it does not double again in 18 days? So, do are you saying you expect it to double since it hit 73K within 80 days?
In a world of spiraling debt problems... GOLD 
Bitcoin in being introduced to the general finance arena has lost its value of limited supply. When you have futures and ETFs and funds, now the supply cap is destroyed and infinite shorting and leverage can control its price. If you look at how it has been boxed in since pre-halving it is evident that the evil tentacles of the traditional finance world will damage what purist qualities it once had.
When people were cheering the new products being brought in, I knew better that the innocence was lost and will never return.
@wallstreetcappers
u knew when bitcoin was sitting at all time highs, before the halving for the first time, that it would still be sitting around the same price months later? Yes, the ETFs are most likely captured bitcoin. that doesnt take ANYTHING away from the people who hold self custody. still cant confiscate it, censor it, counterfeit it. it's STILL the fastest horse in the race and you're going to look silly because you haven't learned a single thing about it. have u put 10 hours into learning about it? 100 hours? talk to me at 10000.
once again, this thread WILL prove you wrong over time. make no mistakes. go read from the start. the next 12-18 months are going to melt faces. it's not that the price of bitcoin goes up, but everything goes down when priced in bitcoin. learn about money
@Hawky
Oh I know plenty, the issue isnt the fixed quantity of BTC, that is not at all at play here because when you create financial products that can manipulate the underlying instrument then that characteristic is lost completely.
When ETFs and futures and derivatives were created for BTC then the limited supply/scarcity aspect was completely destroyed and cannot be restored. The only way to regain the qualities you think BTC has is to implode the outside financial instruments, that is the single solution and that will never happen.
BTC futures and options and derivatives means that financial firms and many traders can buy or sell synthetic positions unlimited without recourse, there is no monitor or governing body that can or will stop the synthetic creation of a trading position that impacts the underlying security and in this case it is BTC.
The same concept has been bugging the crap out of the gold and silver crowd for DECADES....DECADES. It does not matter your scoreboard comment, it is not me vs you or me being anti-BTC because I am not anti at all, I am pointing out financial FACT that you cannot refute. The day that these instruments were allowed to be created was the day that the mythical qualities of BTC ended.
the ETFs have to hold equal BTC on balance sheets that they have on paper to customers. yes gold has been papered over for decades, probably 100 to 1 paper claims to actual gold. you cant do that with BTC, if they do, the SEC is watching hard. not that the SEC isnt in on all of it either! but eventually bitcoiners will leave the companies that dont show their holdings, or theyll get caught when the tide goes back and we'll see who's swimming naked like FTX.
another thing is that it doesnt change anything about bitcoin. you can still memorize 12 words and take all of your wealth out of your country or jurisdiction. you can still send any amount of wealth across the world instantly without the permission of a 3rd party. permissionless. it still works exactly the same.
i agree it's not me vs. you. but bitcoiners are passionate and toxic.
'The day that these instruments were allowed to be created was the day that the *"mythical qualities"* of BTC ended.'
"mythical qualities". the fundamentals stay the same, strongest supercomputer on the planet, biggest strongest network on the planet. nothing can compete.
everything goes down when priced in btc.
5 year period, 10 year period, 15 year period. and it will never stop
@Hawky
They let the fox in the hen house so all you say doesnt matter when BTC went forward with financial instruments. The only issue is now the supply is infinite versus before it was capped, now JP Morgan or hedge fund XYZ can short the complete float and have no issues in doing so from a synthetic basis. It isnt like we have not seen this many times before where commodities/investments are manipulated by using financial instruments which are more powerful than the underlying instrument itself. I think the BTC community got snookered by the siren song lure of mass adoption in allowing financial instruments...in order to make BTC widely available we need futures and ETFs and we need Fidelity and others to be supporting BTC. Thats a good song and dance but it also allows all those lovely firms to manipulate BTC and many other firms who as a MO to make money they SHORT instruments and they have deeper pockets than all the debt Mikey can sell and buy BTC for Microstrategies.
There was a large tradeoff that took place in allowing these instruments to be created and that tradeoff could easily limit or hurt the future of BTC even when the supply is finished being created.
I am invested in the space, I owned some BTC in the past so i am not anti or short or anything, I am only speaking the truth about risks associated with financial instruments and you should not take it lightly and expect that it wont continue to be a concern.
Well looks like BTC is getting played around with and went under 60k today, thats what you get when you allow futures traders to play around with your asset. It is also very difficult to chase away a short futures trader, they can be nimble and exit in seconds and will keep going at it until they get flushed out completely. There are many trading desks and futures HFT groups that are for sure in the BTC space and are wrecking the purity of that scarcity BTC used to cling to. Now a firm with deep pockets could kick the crap out of the futures contracts and not even purchase or short BTC, just push the futures and those down the line are impacted.
@superbeets
I have a Coinbase acct and I have one of those storage drives from years back...I owned BTC at MUCH LOWER PRICES, so low I am not going to say but after transacting on Coinbase I felt like they were scheming my order and their fees are too high. I dont want to juggle money around from this exchange to that exchange and then have to hold the file on my flash drive for security. The IBIT is only BTC and its the largest ETF out there, fees are low and liquidity is smooth so it makes things easier to just hold this ETF in my brokerage acct and not get mad at Coinbase for wide spreads and high fees and their other nonsense.
I was toying with a larger purchase of the IBIT but instead I bot my usual trading vehicle miner that I have been range trading for two years making a nice return, but if Germany keeps selling their gangster BTC and prices go into the 40s or lower I might consider a BIG BIG buy of that ETF. I do wish they had options on it though so I could sell some covered calls but as of now I do not see that available.
@wallstreetcappers
Yeah I’m not sure.. I bought into my first Bitcoin @1k or around that. Obviously I didn’t keep any of that it was for 5dimes
but I did have a great surprise when I got “back” into crypto when I tried to open a Coinbase account and they said I had one already. Opened that joker up and there was very nice surprise waiting for me. About a quarter of one. This was when BTC was around 20-30k.. That shows u how inexperienced I was. I didn’t even know where or what I buying for a Sportsbook BUT I had zero issues moving it off ..
I know I will catch hell for this but I love Robinhood for my withdrawals … they have a bad name but until they do me wrong , I’m staying with them for about 50-60% of my withdrawals. I have a stock account with them for my kids.. it’s an easy to use platform for beginners (like my kids).. I also use other exchanges that have credit /debit cards etc.. I don’t like talking to much about the cash out portion .. I plead the 5th but I’ve made literally hundreds and hundreds of withdrawals through them and have NEVER had issue.. a few large amounts too..
Im assuming you are talking about fees from them for withdrawal ? Just move it off
I do agree with some past posters. NEVER keep large amounts of money on exchanges. I keep some small amounts to show activity and get rewards and stuff but nothing big at all ..
you may have one but if not get you a ledger..then u are good 
Gold makes up about 1% of my overall portfolio, so let's put things into context. Stocks make up the bulk of the portfolio, and for someone that says that I must so stupid at finance... well, I don't recall you opining in anything related to stocks at all. I read a lot on the markets and consider myself pretty well-informed.. I'd recommend you have some understanding of things in the market "besides" bitcoin... You know, stocks, bonds, gold, etc. Your "handle" tells me how narrow your knowledge of finance must really be.
So, keep your fingers crossed , hoping bitcoin goes "to the moon."
I'll leave you w/ a comment Charlie Munger (Buffet's right hand man) once said. He said bitcoin was rat poison "squared." Not rat poison,... but rat poison "Squared" 
Established in 1995,
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